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Lets talk Faceworm Skins and Eatgear


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#51 Nirvanna21

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 05:31 PM

1 instance run = chance to get 1 MCA 17m, 1 FQL 300m, 2 pcs GFSS. 10-15 minute instance

 

And yet they didn't touch the FQL, the MCA fell due to HTF (NTF), so all this ruckus about Faceworm being ruined is over an average of 25m difference from what it currently is... what?


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#52 CadburyChocolate

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:29 PM

Trust your decisions Camp, the idea is fair though it's a big loss to me and other farmers.

 

Running the instance yields 30m-50m on average WITHOUT being lucky.Pretty big for a 10 minute instance w/c is run daily. Taking into account the high stated GFFS and FQL, that's a lot.


Edited by CadburyChocolate, 16 December 2016 - 07:33 PM.

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#53 Doomsquare

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:43 PM

Normal players like me can't kill the queen fast enough. My runs don't have no MCA usually (I think it's 30% drop). Haven't got a FQL in a year. I usually get +7 skins if I'm lucky/fast enough.

 

Meaning with this new implementation, I get 2 EMBs as a consolation prize?

 


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#54 mrricebox

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:47 PM

At the very least change either change the reward or revamp the EMB reward system because as of right now they're literally worthless. 1-3 EMBs and the best reward from them is a Reset Stone which is like 4.5m? I'd rather not waste my time on an instance like that.


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#55 yamasakai90

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 11:50 PM

1 instance run = chance to get 1 MCA 17m, 1 FQL 300m, 2 pcs GFSS. 10-15 minute instance

 

Even completing it under 11-13mins you do get +4 to +7 GFSS, despite having better enchants. Its not a confirm that you get +8 to +11.

 

Quite a handful people can finish it under 10-15mins but majority can't. Also even how often do someone get a perfect or near perfect GFSS + slotted to sell? Even if they do, the market is really slow due to the low demand from people that does WoE.

 

Really, Vit GFSS are mainly for Sura in WoE. No one else really want them that much for PvM. (Menblatt Vit GFSS? FAW does better, Dex GFSS for AB? Doesn't really matter that much.

 

Just ran my daily runs today and since Eat Gear doesn't eat it at the moment, and considering future EMB rewards... not so sure if its worth running anymore. Its an end game instance that people enjoy running due to the time challenge and that the rewards are just based on that. Removing the safe cert aspect and with MCA price drop..... :wah:


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#56 BossArvz

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:42 AM

AFAIK there are 2 type of players here
One who farms to have zeny and be able to buy KP/WPE. And one who sell KP/WPE to be able to have zeny. If u lessen the zeny generated from farming less people will be able to buy/sell WPE. Less wpe seller/buyer it'll have more impact on your profit.
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#57 Boyeteers

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 01:16 PM

Better if you update Eve Natalia as well. Like adding more lists on -_- drops from MVPs such as Ledger of Death, Staff of Destruction, Cutlas etc


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#58 LegendaryTorgue

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 01:38 PM

Update eden batches to be more useful camp, that way you save on the wrath of good players who slave away loyally at the game, and the normal ones who don't get much stuff since they may not kill the FQ fast enough.

The message is quite clear now. Also allow us to change the skins for prize medals !!! :D


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#59 kappakeepokupo

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 02:14 PM

I never even considered certs to be item mall items, since you could obtain them by in-game means. Just going to ask, why is this being investigated now when Faceworm have been around for a long time?
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#60 Myzery

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 02:55 PM

Itachi and I talked about this a good bit.

What we propose is that snake skins and other specific items be worth their own currency. This would function more like Eve Natalia.
The reasoning as to why they should be worth their own unique currency is because you could not reasonably pay out the worth or effort in Eden Merit Badges. For example, if you were to assign a set number of speed potions per merit badge, this would make one Gramps run worth millions of zeny. This most certainly would be abused. There is also the problem that more Eden Merit Badges would generate even more cash shop items in the form of Magical stones and Tokens of Siegfried.

Each snake skin that is at least +8 would give 10x "Camp Cash" (just an example name)
Each snake skin that is at least +9 or above would give 20x "Camp Cash"

Each (1) "Camp Cash" would be worth:
 

50x speed potions - These get used up like water and are tedious to farm. They also come from the investment machine which is heavily botted. Very sought after for WoE.

10x yggdrasil berries - These are relatively rare in PvM and from the investment machine. They are sought after for WoE and get used up quickly. They can not be abused due to the item use delay. They are also useful to PvM players.

750x witch starsand - These would give fledgling brewers a chance to compete on the alchemist list. They will also keep prominent people like Ren stocked and give guilds an easier way and more incentive to supply their members.

5x WoE white boxes - The only way you get these is through the investment machine, which as mentioned before is heavily botted. A lot of people supply themselves and others for WoE, so this may be a great option for them. These get used up very quickly.

10x of each savage meat, blood of wolf, beef head, ice crystal, ice piece, drosera tentacle, petite's tail - These items make +20 stat foods. These are used up frequently in PvM and WoE. They come from the investment machine at a moderate rate and get used up very quickly.


10x WoE violet boxes - These also come from the investment machine and are great for WoE.

10x WoE blue boxes - Same as the WoE violet boxes.

Random safe cert - This is a good idea, but what would be a fair exchange here?




We chose not to include other consumables such as Korean rice cakes. This is because it would undermine other healing items and make them far less attractive. At one point we were also considering Old Purple Boxes, but decided against it because you can exchange them for Eden Merit Badges and we think it is a bad idea to offer something that could be traded for a different currency.
We tried to not include items that would drastically take away from something else. At the rate that things get consumed, price probably won't fluctuate too much if people decided to instead sell what they get from their "Camp Cash"


If anyone has anything else to suggest or add, that would be truly appreciated. Things that recover HP are probably not a good idea. Things that are more appealing to PvM players (for example) would be ideal.
 

 


Edited by Myzery, 17 December 2016 - 03:08 PM.

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#61 Demeris

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:14 PM

Doing Faceworm for WoE supplies only interests people doing it for WoE. Which won't interest any PvM players tbh.

People do the instance for money. Sure you can sell the supplies mentioned, but it won't equate the same. I've seen faceworm skins sold between 100m - 1b if you get the right enchants and upgrade.

Comparing the cost of doing the instance vs the reward you get:

Cost (Assuming a minimum party of 2):

  • If you're using a gene, it'll probably take on average 200 bomb sets to do it comfortably.
  • Maybe about 500 white pots between 2 people.
  • Foods if you want to be more efficient

Rewards:

  • Potentially all vit/dex/int facework skin with a slot
  • +7 certs from the +8,+9 skins.
  • Mystical Card Album
  • Faceworm Queen Leg

MCAs have severely dropped due to NTF. It was a consistent 35mil before NTF, now it's at 16.5m. Not to mention that the chance of this item is about 50% from faceworm queen.

 

FQL - 1% chance. Very inconsistent drop.

 

Faceworm skins - Chances of getting something good isn't high. Faceworm has also been out long enough where a lot of these skins aren't as valuable anymore.

 

+8 to +9 skins - Even when you eat gear the garments, you have a low chance of getting more certs.

  • With +8, you can get either 1 or 2 certs.
  • With +9, you can get either 2 or 5. The chances of succeeding isn't equal to the chance of failure.

So really, the only way you'll get profit is to get +9 garments.

 

That means you HAVE to get +9 garments. Which isn't always the case. Most of the time, doing Faceworm costs me more than what I get from it. So I personally stopped doing it and with eat gear now eating +10, it got me interested again.
 

 

I personally don't see the garments being turned into certs a problem since it's not as badly consistent as the NTF MCA farming. If you really want to fix the problem, simply: DONT LET EATGEAR EAT ITEMS OVER +10.

 

The instance will be the same as before, but the profit won't be as high if someone walks home with 2 +10 Faceworm skins.


Edited by Demeris, 17 December 2016 - 03:14 PM.

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#62 Demeris

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:24 PM

What other items are there to eat besides +10 Faceworm skins. No one is going to think it's a smart idea using resources to +10 an item, only to turn them into certs. So the +10 eatgear thing is really only for faceworm. Remove it and you'll fix the problem.


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#63 Tofu

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:24 PM

Doing Faceworm for WoE supplies only interests people doing it for WoE. Which won't interest any PvM players tbh.


What do people who only PvM want? There's materials to create +20 foods in there. We considered things like acid bomb materials and rune materials, but those were just too class specific.

Camp thinks that the previous rate that certs were coming in (before they allowed +10 and up items) was already bringing in too many "free" certs into the game, so simply reverting to only allow +7-9 items, and keeping everything the same isn't really an option.

We would love to see what other additional items people think should be offered though.

People do the instance for money. Sure you can sell the supplies mentioned, but it won't equate the same. I've seen faceworm skins sold between 100m - 1b if you get the right enchants and upgrade.


Good snake skins will still be worth a lot and can still be sold normally. This exchange is simply to give some value to the "useless" high upgraded snake skins. Our suggestions are to help give them more value than what Campitor originally suggested.
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#64 fuyukikun

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:26 PM

im up for EMB rewards revamp


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#65 Ashuckel

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:30 PM

the thing with certs is: Everybody uses/needs cert. Doesn't matters the class they play. Doesn't matter if they woe or not. Etc. And with always releasing new gear they are always on demand. Depending on what else is given, it might be either restricted too much for a specific class or enviorment, not being as fast to cash in, if that even happens, who knows.


(nerf eat gear amount of certs spit out)

 

(make an event/npc wich you can use enriched ores+certs, and increase your ores sales with that lol)


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#66 Demeris

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:33 PM

There's nothing wrong with having "useless" high upgraded snake skins. I never saw it as a problem because I accepted it as just being part of the game. I'll admit, it does defer me from farming faceworm instance more. But the whole reason certs are suddenly a problem now is because of +10-11 faceworm skins actually being valuable now.

 

I believe Campitor is worrying about a problem that's not really a problem for the players. Does it hurt revenue? I don't know. Removing access to get them now that they're available? It's going to piss off a lot of players. ET has value because you can turn your items into safe certs. If safe to 7 certs become strictly obtainable through Kafra, then good luck fixing the problem.


Edited by Demeris, 17 December 2016 - 03:35 PM.

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#67 Tofu

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:34 PM

(nerf eat gear amount of certs spit out)
 
(make an event/npc wich you can use enriched ores+certs, and increase your ores sales with that lol)


Your font is too small. I assumed because of the tiny font, it was just trolling and unimportant, so I was this close to just skipping over it.
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#68 Nirvanna21

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:39 PM

There's nothing wrong with having "useless" high upgraded snake skins. I never saw it as a problem because I accepted it as just being part of the game. I'll admit, it does defer me from farming faceworm instance more. But the whole reason certs are suddenly a problem now is because of +10-11 faceworm skins actually being valuable now.

 

I believe Campitor is worrying about a problem that's not really a problem for the players. Does it hurt revenue? I don't know. Removing access to get them now that they're available? It's going to piss off a lot of players. ET has value because you can turn your items into safe certs. If safe to 7 certs become strictly obtainable through Kafra, then good luck fixing the problem.

 

Personally I think Safe to 7 certificates should be obtainable in game.

 

Why monopolize them to Kafra Shop when they already have...

 

BMX3 (popular during EXP events)

HEGUM (popular anytime, but more so during DROP events)

Safe to 10 (popular to those who want a different method of +10'ing an item)

Bloody Branch (popular anytime)

 

And that is just the core items.


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#69 Demeris

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:47 PM

This is an issue about Warp Portal losing profits because more knowledgeable players won't find safe to 7 certs valuable to buy through the kp shop.

Honestly, they can do other things to milk their players. But the only problem I see is a suddenly influx of safe to 7 body certs from farming the faceworm instance.

 

The only time Eat Gear has a use is during the following:

  • When someone uses their mastersmith to Weapon Upgrade items to +8.
  • When someone receives upgraded gear from faceworm and devil's tower.

I see no other instances of using Eat Gear for +10 items because I see no good method for getting an item to +10, only to safe cert it. So the eat gear for +10 is ONLY valuable for the faceworm instance rewards.

 

So my question is; Why do we have Eat Gear eating items over +10?


Edited by Demeris, 17 December 2016 - 03:49 PM.

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#70 Ashuckel

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 03:49 PM

you always could use Carniums to downgrade your faceworm skins to +7~8 before and turn them in....

but y'know, greedy ppl


Edited by Ashuckel, 17 December 2016 - 03:49 PM.

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#71 Nirvanna21

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 04:59 PM

Okay, I have fleshed out a balancing act of the current Eat Gear and Eve Natalia NPCs.

 

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing


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#72 Doomsquare

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 07:03 PM

Tbh, actually if faceworm has a mechanism to upgrade the skins just like the Dragonhelm Lunar event, it can be a viable alternative to the popular garments, namely Fallen Angel Wing and Heroic Backpack.

 

Perhaps trading one to "upgrade" the one equiped. Then we may see prices of skins rise again!

 

P.S : I'm supportive of the idea whereby if you get EMBs, Bloody Branches has to be part of them. Inflation in the past 6 months for MVP cards has been crazy


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#73 NGNLsora

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 08:47 PM

If we include the success rate of feeding the skins to mimic in this matter, I think 1 cert are just too low.It's not even relatively confirmed that u gonna get +9 above skin for every FW instance run.Embs kinda good since can be changed to tokens  and stuffs? Though some of the reward doesn't  look that appealing to some other players . So yeah, adding new stuff or anything might turn the tide afterward :rice: :rice:


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#74 nheil02

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 12:51 AM

why everyone here are afraid of losing something?

you can still claim safe certificate without using GFSS/Evil Slayer by means of upgrading other items...


Edited by nheil02, 18 December 2016 - 12:56 AM.

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#75 netorinetero

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 02:33 AM

A missed opportunity of having zeny. Its hard to earn zeny nowadays. I also upgrade the 0+gfss one instead of searching other item you can upgrade. if these for the good for everyone, wp, and players, its ok to me.


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