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Battlegrounds: Pros and Cons of Randomizing Sides?


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#26 HRdevil

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:59 AM

My simple input of what could happen if they implement this:

It could be discouraging for people that want their items, resulting in a deserted wasteland of the BG BECAUSE 30 minutes for 4-12 badges isn't really cool AND KVM? 5 MINUTE COOL-DOWN + SIDE SWITCHING STUPIDITY. I already got everything i need from the battlegrounds, just to rack up buff items and spend some time killing people & a little of the endless battle of KvM.

If they increase the reward for KvM or delete that stupid 5 minute cool-down. Yes, it could promote farming but it also gives people enough time to fight and mess around destroying peoples farm and getting their satisfying points, to actually get people into going to the BG's. Right now its a total wasteland not because lv. 80-99, 100-150 difference that was fixed (That was a problem), but because people are too busy getting rich, grinding & low rewards points imo.
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#27 Hrothmund

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 06:09 AM

**my big suggestion**

Make battle grounds like Hugel races.

Theres a 2 minute registration period (cut that down to 30 seconds since people are impatient?) Every 30 seconds the NPC checks to see if theres at least X amount of players (say 5? 2v3 up to a max of 18 for 9v9) and if there is randomly allocate them to the two teams to start fighting. This would remove the need to have a 5v5, 9v9 and 16v16 match room since they can all be dynamic.

Then theres a 5 minute fight period (or shorter, like how races finish early)

Get points.

The main purpose of this is, you guessed it, no more "OMG we only need one MORE PERSON?!?!? ARGGGH HES AFK #*$&^*" since the fights will start AUTOMATICALLY regardless of how many people are currently registered to fight.

YES

That sometimes means one team might have 5 and the other team has 4. Its not perfect but unless everyone has the same class/level/gears its never going to be perfect.

Point is the matches will always be running. Your not sitting there for 40 minutes trying to recruit passerbys.

<insert my usual "go try requiem battleground system for 30 minutes" plug>

Edited by Hrothmund, 10 December 2010 - 06:15 AM.

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#28 iiNote

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 06:28 AM

**my big suggestion**

Make battle grounds like Hugel races.

Theres a 2 minute registration period (cut that down to 30 seconds since people are impatient?) Every 30 seconds the NPC checks to see if theres at least X amount of players (say 5? 2v3 up to a max of 18 for 9v9) and if there is randomly allocate them to the two teams to start fighting. This would remove the need to have a 5v5, 9v9 and 16v16 match room since they can all be dynamic.

Then theres a 5 minute fight period (or shorter, like how races finish early)

Get points.

The main purpose of this is, you guessed it, no more "OMG we only need one MORE PERSON?!?!? ARGGGH HES AFK #*$&^*" since the fights will start AUTOMATICALLY regardless of how many people are currently registered to fight.


YES

That sometimes means one team might have 5 and the other team has 4. Its not perfect but unless everyone has the same class/level/gears its never going to be perfect.

Point is the matches will always be running. Your not sitting there for 40 minutes trying to recruit passerbys.

<insert my usual "go try requiem battleground system for 30 minutes" plug>

Yes I would normally agree on this..
But the chances are that with that system people will farm there for badges...
Since it'll be automatic...
I prefer the random teams better...

Edited by iiNote, 10 December 2010 - 06:29 AM.

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#29 Ralis

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 08:33 AM

My simple input of what could happen if they implement this:

It could be discouraging for people that want their items, resulting in a deserted wasteland of the BG BECAUSE 30 minutes for 4-12 badges isn't really cool AND KVM? 5 MINUTE COOL-DOWN + SIDE SWITCHING STUPIDITY. I already got everything i need from the battlegrounds, just to rack up buff items and spend some time killing people & a little of the endless battle of KvM.

If they increase the reward for KvM or delete that stupid 5 minute cool-down. Yes, it could promote farming but it also gives people enough time to fight and mess around destroying peoples farm and getting their satisfying points, to actually get people into going to the BG's. Right now its a total wasteland not because lv. 80-99, 100-150 difference that was fixed (That was a problem), but because people are too busy getting rich, grinding & low rewards points imo.


You underestimate the number of us that like to fight and aren't doing BGs because of the way it's set up now.

Not all battles would last 5 minutes. I'd say most would average 2-3, actually.

I would agree with increasing the reward with this change, though. It takes a long time to get KVM get compared to Tierra and Flavius. Yes, the gear is better, but it can take months to get them whereas I could get Tierra and Flavius gear in a day if I wanted to.
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#30 GuardianTK

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:20 AM

The problem with random teams should be when some classes wanna play. Imagine a team with 5 priests classes against a team with all killers...

This system is awesome for people who can kill but could sucks when appear supporters in BG.

You belittle the power of support classes in KVM matches. Sometimes one HP was enough to tip the balance of a match.
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#31 Hrothmund

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:07 PM

Yes I would normally agree on this..
But the chances are that with that system people will farm there for badges...
Since it'll be automatic...
I prefer the random teams better...


Oh yeah it still has to be random team selection, but the idea is you dont need to spend hours getting that "last person" to get the match going since the match could start anytime you have 10-20 people sitting in the chat room ready to go
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#32 Ralis

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 04:26 PM

I spoke with Heim today, and he said he was glad to see the amount of people that approved of randomization.

I guess they already have the script as well, so hopefully we will be seeing it soon, if only for a test period.
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#33 Kokotewa

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:18 PM

I kind of dislike the idea.

Usually when I organize a guild event there, "lets make a group and roflstomp people in BGs until they quit or form an organized team and fight back" it is for a communication and teamwork exercise.

BG is not WoE, it isn't as high risk and mistakes are less penalized.

That being said, I was usually on the winning team. I was on the winning team because I decided that I was, we were going to win and the other team was going to lose. I can understand people who didn't like losing all the time. I hate losing. I do everything I can not to lose.

Some players are okay with losing. Don't pot, don't try, don't practice, don't care. Whatever, take your pick of their excuse for losing.

My team wins, their team loses, they decide they can join the winning team by mashing our NPC faster than us to get the same reward. This is the problem. Not that teams are not randomized, that fixes nothing. People who are skilled will still win, people who aren't will if they happen to be on the same team.

What it does do, however, is keep skilled players from playing classes that can 'carry' the match. A arch bishop, minstrel, gypsy are all VERY scary with the right team comp. However they are not scary alone, by themselves, with random teammates (who can be playing anything, or I'll be honest-be flat out terrible)

Having teams join a que system is a great idea. Random teams is stupid.
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#34 IronFist

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:29 PM

anything beats no kvm.... honestly with 5min cooldown its not worth playing the game...
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#35 Hrothmund

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:34 PM

I kind of dislike the idea.

Usually when I organize a guild event there, "lets make a group and roflstomp people in BGs until they quit or form an organized team and fight back" it is for a communication and teamwork exercise.

BG is not WoE, it isn't as high risk and mistakes are less penalized.

That being said, I was usually on the winning team. I was on the winning team because I decided that I was, we were going to win and the other team was going to lose. I can understand people who didn't like losing all the time. I hate losing. I do everything I can not to lose.

Some players are okay with losing. Don't pot, don't try, don't practice, don't care. Whatever, take your pick of their excuse for losing.

My team wins, their team loses, they decide they can join the winning team by mashing our NPC faster than us to get the same reward. This is the problem. Not that teams are not randomized, that fixes nothing. People who are skilled will still win, people who aren't will if they happen to be on the same team.

What it does do, however, is keep skilled players from playing classes that can 'carry' the match. A arch bishop, minstrel, gypsy are all VERY scary with the right team comp. However they are not scary alone, by themselves, with random teammates (who can be playing anything, or I'll be honest-be flat out terrible)

Having teams join a que system is a great idea. Random teams is stupid.


So basically your upset that random teams will stop you farming. thats a good thing, not a bad thing.
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#36 Brindizer

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:38 PM

I still support the idea of PVP rules in BG/KVM.
WoE rules are for WoE. Let BG have numbers fly out of people and have musicians standing on a food storage with sheltering bliss.
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#37 Kokotewa

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:38 PM

So basically your upset that random teams will stop you farming. thats a good thing, not a bad thing.

I don't follow your logic at all.
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#38 Kitten

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:52 PM

Give randomization a chance and see how it runs. I think the pros make a compelling argument.
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#39 BradleyRyan

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:56 PM

That being said, I was usually on the winning team. I was on the winning team because I decided that I was, we were going to win and the other team was going to lose. I can understand people who didn't like losing all the time. I hate losing. I do everything I can not to lose.

Some players are okay with losing. Don't pot, don't try, don't practice, don't care. Whatever, take your pick of their excuse for losing.

The losing side is decided when people on the winning side put their alts on it. It's not because the other side is ok with losing, but winning is futile if all the active players are on the other side.
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#40 November

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 06:13 PM

This is a terrible idea. What is going to happen is everyone will be excited for the change and do BG actively for a few weeks, then people will dwindle off after getting so few badges for the amount of time and zeny they put into the match. After those people dwindle there will not be enough people to start a full match so people will have to start adding their alts, then when the match starts it becomes random and the side with the most alts will get pissed off and some will end up leaving. In the end it will be like it has always been, getting as many alts in as possible to start a single match and one side QQ because they have more alts than the other side.

This new update just changes who mainly does BG, the farmers will mostly stay away from BG while the fighters fight. We are only changing from non-fighters -> fighters. There are more non-fighters than there are fighters.
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#41 GuardianTK

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 06:32 PM

@Koko: I see where you're coming from with splitting up a party with this kind of system. Then again, what difference does it make if you're a skilled player anyways? Just team up with the people on your side and teach them what to do. A little variety and unpredictability sounds exciting to me. BG isn't WoE, but it shouldn't be like PvP either. I don't see why you can't do something to help improve inexperienced players that happen to be randomly assigned to your side.

@Brindizer: I hope you're just trolling. If BG were made so it had PvP rules, I'd give up on BG immediately.
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#42 Ralis

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 06:32 PM

This is a terrible idea. What is going to happen is everyone will be excited for the change and do BG actively for a few weeks, then people will dwindle off after getting so few badges for the amount of time and zeny they put into the match. After those people dwindle there will not be enough people to start a full match so people will have to start adding their alts, then when the match starts it becomes random and the side with the most alts will get pissed off and some will end up leaving. In the end it will be like it has always been, getting as many alts in as possible to start a single match and one side QQ because they have more alts than the other side.

This new update just changes who mainly does BG, the farmers will mostly stay away from BG while the fighters fight. We are only changing from non-fighters -> fighters. There are more non-fighters than there are fighters.


It will force people to fight. Those that don't want to play the game... Why are they here in the first place? I don't get online so I can sit and farm badges. I get on to fight and have fun.

10 people for KVM is easy, and I know a lot more than 10 people that want to fight.
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#43 November

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:01 PM

It will force people to fight. Those that don't want to play the game... Why are they here in the first place? I don't get online so I can sit and farm badges. I get on to fight and have fun.

10 people for KVM is easy, and I know a lot more than 10 people that want to fight.

BG is fun with fighting but this will become ridiculous, if we are on the losing side we will be sitting around for 30 minutes for 4 badges..... And when people get unlucky and get set on the losing side 2-3 times in a row they are going to get annoyed that they are spending 30 minutes and 30 minutes of supplies for 4 messily badges. Not to mention for this to be "fair" for all you will need to have 24 active players, if you don't one side will QQ that they lost because people are putting alt in and then emo quit making the already low amount of people that BG even lower.
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#44 Ralis

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:13 PM

BG is fun with fighting but this will become ridiculous, if we are on the losing side we will be sitting around for 30 minutes for 4 badges..... And when people get unlucky and get set on the losing side 2-3 times in a row they are going to get annoyed that they are spending 30 minutes and 30 minutes of supplies for 4 messily badges. Not to mention for this to be "fair" for all you will need to have 24 active players, if you don't one side will QQ that they lost because people are putting alt in and then emo quit making the already low amount of people that BG even lower.


I'm not sure if the change will be for all BGs, actually. I only KVM anymore, so someone would have to tell me if the 5 minute thing effects anything but KVM.

Not all fights last 30 minutes in Tierra or Flav anyways. Actual Tierra fights are usually about 10-15 minutes. Flav can go on forever, because of the multiple rounds. That's what gets annoying.
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#45 November

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:19 PM

I'm not sure if the change will be for all BGs, actually. I only KVM anymore, so someone would have to tell me if the 5 minute thing effects anything but KVM.

Not all fights last 30 minutes in Tierra or Flav anyways. Actual Tierra fights are usually about 10-15 minutes. Flav can go on forever, because of the multiple rounds. That's what gets annoying.

I am more concerned about flav over anything else, because exactly like you said the matches can go on forever and it is very easy to do so if the teams are randomized. I love doing flav and all but seriously, sitting there and getting 4 badges every 30 minutes will just kill my desire to continue to BG.
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#46 Ralis

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:21 PM

Perhaps we can work with Heim to remove the 3 matches for Flav and make it only one match, because I do agree the 3 are redundant. You're going to do it over and over anyways, doesn't really seem like you need the three matches.
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#47 GuardianTK

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:24 PM

I hear from Gee-Gee that Renewal Flav is pretty interesting.
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#48 Kokotewa

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:26 PM

@Koko: I see where you're coming from with splitting up a party with this kind of system. Then again, what difference does it make if you're a skilled player anyways?

Okay, so pre-renewal it was a HP+4 nontrans sins without cranials or pots.

Where HP is a very strong class, it can't carry a match. No matter how good you are.
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#49 SamuelAdams

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:58 PM

This is a terrible idea. What is going to happen is everyone will be excited for the change and do BG actively for a few weeks, then people will dwindle off after getting so few badges for the amount of time and zeny they put into the match. After those people dwindle there will not be enough people to start a full match so people will have to start adding their alts, then when the match starts it becomes random and the side with the most alts will get pissed off and some will end up leaving. In the end it will be like it has always been, getting as many alts in as possible to start a single match and one side QQ because they have more alts than the other side.

1) Randomization or not there are going to be people sticking in alts. Randomization means the people who stick in alts may get stuck with em on their own team on the plus side.
2) Oh no, bg will actually be active for a bit, and has a chance of dieing again, god forbid. Let's go back to where no one ever does it period.
3)Have issues with Flav? Do tierra, I prefer it better anyway... And yeah, changing it to one round would fix it... I hate how flav is set up atm.

Edited by SamuelAdams, 10 December 2010 - 08:00 PM.

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#50 November

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 08:10 PM

1) Randomization or not there are going to be people sticking in alts. Randomization means the people who stick in alts may get stuck with em on their own team on the plus side.
2) Oh no, bg will actually be active for a bit, and has a chance of dieing again, god forbid. Let's go back to where no one ever does it period.
3)Have issues with Flav? Do tierra, I prefer it better anyway... And yeah, changing it to one round would fix it... I hate how flav is set up atm.

I dont see how you can can that no one did BG pre-renewal(when it was working). I for a fact did BG all the time, BG was not dead pre-renewal I still did it all the time and was able to get a full 2 +7 set combo's using nothing but normal Elunium (20-25 breaks per +7 QQ)

Yes people will continue to put alts in no matter what we do, and with the randomization it will make people QQ more then it does now. At least now people know what side is going to be alts for sure and they have a chance to be on a completely unalt side.

Edit 1-

I like the idea of dropping flav from 2 matches down to 1. Having 2 matches just makes it to long, especially when people can easily make a match go on for 30 minutes meaning if you lose you get 4 badges for 30 minutes of play/supplies. Imo it is not worth the reward

Edited by November, 10 December 2010 - 08:13 PM.

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