1914 replies to this topic

[Kusanagisama]

is it good idea putting big ben card+nightmare mimic card on +9 lacryma stick? since i can't find the reasonable price for +12-+14 lacryma stick

 

my WL still sticking with tsod+skull cap combo now

 

I wouldn't. It's more expensive to upgrade a +9 La'cryma to +10 by normal means than to buy a +10 La'cryma, and those cards are not on the cheap side, even though they're quite cheap now. Better save money and buy a +10 La'cryma, or make an upgrader MS, stock a bunch of La'crymas and upgrade them till you get a +10.

 

Yeah its true, spellcasters are in general rather weak in iRO renewal. It appears that MDEF at 50 is about 30% reduction in damage, but the break-even point for Crimson Rod vs Lacryma Set is actually somewhat higher than 50 since Lacryma Set gives 50% MDEF bypassing rather than 100%. If you wear OBDH, you get a bit of MDEF bypassing even with Crimson Rod against normal monsters, which makes the break-even point even higher. MDEF bypassing card combo(such as Big Ben + Neo Punk) also plays a role in determining this break-even point.

 

The formula for MDEF damage reduction is:

(1000 + MDEF) / (1000 + MDEF × 10)

 

Assuming you have +15 Crimson Rod that gives 30% more MATK than La'cryma Set(lv.10 Frost Nova = 50% MDEF bypass), also with an Ordinary Black Magician Hat(additional MDEF piercing against normal monsters). This lead to this balance equation:

 

(Note: Reduction/Bypass cannot exceed 100%, OBMH does not affect Boss Monsters)

 

So we can use this formula to find out the break even MDEF point, I am sure the value is a lot higher than 50.

 

As I said before, the break-even point is close to 80, but for my setups (One +15 Echo of Tomb Raider Crimson Rod vs. 4 +13 La'cryma Sticks: Big Ben/Hell Apocalypse, Big Ben/Cobalt Mineral, N. Mimic/Ancient Tree, N. Mimic/Bradium Golem) it's closer to 40. So I default La'cryma when I fight these 4 races.

 

I have +13 OBMH myself, and I know someone with a +14 OBMH, havent heard anyone who had refine it to +15 yet. OBMH only affects normal monsters though, so it wont be useful to refine it past +9 if you fight against MVPs.

 

Actually, it works against Boss Protocol monsters as well. I have tested it many times, and posted this info here. According to Haseo, it works on players too.

 

much replies ! many comments ! wow posts !

 

quick questions though; how is nightmare verit card is better then 200 int proc ? my guess is becuase WL doesn't scale well with int?

 

+1 for Doge reference. :v

 

It's better because it's on ALL THE TIME, and won't eat your SP. :v Also, RM is much better if used on INT boots than Dex Boots, and since it eats away your SP, and sometimes procs when your huge nukes are on cooldown and you can't make use of it, it's mostly used against MVPs, specially the ones you kill by spamming Doritos Soul Expansion. RM boosts Soul Expansion by ~50% when it procs. When it procs... The other spells are not boosted by that much, but besides the still huge boost, you can also achieve instant cast with it, because of the way that Radius and VCT works.

[kubikyuu]

pro RM:

- massive dmg increase

- 200 int will let you instant cast

- you can store more spells when you use Read Spellbook while RM is active

 

 

pro Nightmare Verit:

- good dmg increase in +9 shoes

- no need to proc the effect

- no crazy sp drain

- good enough against normal mobs

 

 

con RM:

- Procing RM can be a pain in the butt.

Easiest way to do it is put down a Firewall and have a lot of mobs run into it.

This requires knowledge und useage of vertical Firewall for maximum safety. (Or the presence of a Stringer so you can spam Chain Lightning like mad.)

Worst case RM procs just as you finish off a mob and runs out before you can find the next, leaving you with less sp and no gains.

Against MVPs procing RM is easier, because they eat all Firewall hits at once.

Then again most MVPs have high MDef, so you probably will want the Pororoca Shoes combo for additional 50% MDef bypass instead. (Also Waterball OP.)

- 10s can be either very long or very short, depending on the situation...

- the increased spell storage is very situational

 

con Nightmare Verit:

- less damage increase than RM procs (at least this was true for me back when I compared the two with my gears, my gears changed a bit since then though)

Edited by kubikyuu, 25 April 2017 - 09:04 AM.

[DataDrain]

Does +7 Pororoca Shoes +10% MATK bonus (according to the description) worked in the same way as +9 N. Verit Boots ?

 

Anyone have tried comparing it through in-game test?

[kubikyuu]

Does +7 Pororoca Shoes +10% MATK bonus (according to the description) worked in the same way as +9 N. Verit Boots ?

 

Anyone have tried comparing it through in-game test?

 

+9 Temp Dex Nightmare Verit

 

 

+7 Pororoca, used a +7 Dex food and Well Chewed Pencil for this one to get the same dex bonus I get from using the +9 Temp Dex Boots, since dex also adds tiny ammounts of MAtk

 

 

Don't see why it should have made any difference, other than the dex bonus from upgraded temp boots that is.

Edited by kubikyuu, 25 April 2017 - 09:34 AM.

[DataDrain]

Cool and Thanks for fast clarification Mr/Ms. Kubi, I think I'll settle for cheaper Pororoca shoes for my warlock now maybe until future slotted enchantable temporal boots arrives here

[Gabrielr04]

The thing with it are the downsides from those 200 int bonus from the Runaway Magic, it sucks 200 sp per second during 10 seconds. Plus it is something that varies a lot, sometimes it triggers at first skill you use and sometimes in a gap of fighting 10 minutes straight it never activates (My case once, so unlucky lol)

On the other side we have Nightmare Verit which if the boots are +9 gives a constant 10% matk, that is a pretty good boost considering that in late game most WLs have a raw matk of 1000 or so


Edit!: Hadn't noticed there was another page to the post so didn't knew someone had answered his question lel

Edited by Gabrielr04, 25 April 2017 - 11:27 AM.

[Kusanagisama]

A good way to use RM is to cast a single spell when it activates (can't be Chain Lightning, though ), then switch boots to cancel the effect (and the SP drain). Still, Murphy's Law dictates that it will proc mostly when Crimson Rock is on Cooldown, and you have no CRs stored with RSB.

[WhiteHerb]

I wouldn't. It's more expensive to upgrade a +9 La'cryma to +10 by normal means than to buy a +10 La'cryma, and those cards are not on the cheap side, even though they're quite cheap now. Better save money and buy a +10 La'cryma, or make an upgrader MS, stock a bunch of La'crymas and upgrade them till you get a +10.

 

 

As I said before, the break-even point is close to 80, but for my setups (One +15 Echo of Tomb Raider Crimson Rod vs. 4 +13 La'cryma Sticks: Big Ben/Hell Apocalypse, Big Ben/Cobalt Mineral, N. Mimic/Ancient Tree, N. Mimic/Bradium Golem) it's closer to 40. So I default La'cryma when I fight these 4 races.

 

 

Actually, it works against Boss Protocol monsters as well. I have tested it many times, and posted this info here. According to Haseo, it works on players too.

 

 

+1 for Doge reference. :v

 

It's better because it's on ALL THE TIME, and won't eat your SP. :v Also, RM is much better if used on INT boots than Dex Boots, and since it eats away your SP, and sometimes procs when your huge nukes are on cooldown and you can't make use of it, it's mostly used against MVPs, specially the ones you kill by spamming Doritos Soul Expansion. RM boosts Soul Expansion by ~50% when it procs. When it procs... The other spells are not boosted by that much, but besides the still huge boost, you can also achieve instant cast with it, because of the way that Radius and VCT works.

 

thanks for clearing it out for me ! and thank you for acknowledging dodge joke hahahhahaha (and lol at doritos haha )

 

I think i am ganna try to get Nightmare verit.. the only problem is to make temporal boots +9..

[PervySageMarty]

If OBMH didnt work on players, i would be wondering how retardedly OP is the 'Player' race then

[DexRain]

Man so much has changed since I first built my hwiz, made a wizard on my other account last night (so I could copy SG on my Stalker lel), and I was like, ok, lvl 40 mage, time to head to Clock Tower, I'm 1-shotting clocks with VFW/FB10 but the exp is trash, wtf?  

 

I'm use to getting like 30%+ per kill at that level (played almost entirely pre-renewal) *looks up guides* ....oh, welp, off to the desert I guess, mobbing sandmen with VFW is great from like 50~70, heading back down to clocks now, then i guess low TI

 

My HWIZ is built for pre-renewal WoE 99 int/dex, rest into agi, everything else is 1, you wanted 1 vit back then to survive AB in WoE, my gear is way out of meta now, at least my +7 Undine SoD is still kinda good.

 

I do have the full wizard/sage set carded gear still, is it still any good for leveling pre-3rd job?

 

I'm more focused on gearing up my maestro and stalker atm but I'm guessing temp dex boots would benefit all 4 classes? Autospell bow SC/Maestro/WL/Sorc 

[DataDrain]

You got penalized for killing much higher lvl monsters than your char probably, that's why clock giving you crap exp

 

Renewal got this exp penalty and exp bonus system for killing monsters that are close to your character lvl

[Kusanagisama]

I think i am ganna try to get Nightmare verit.. the only problem is to make temporal boots +9..

 

No need to do it at once. It will give you a bonus at +0 (5%, I guess, I don't remember), an increased bonus (3%?) at +7, and will top (+2%?) on +9. When I said it was cheaper to get a NV Temp Dex, than one with Lucky Day, I meant a +7 Temp Dex [1] with Nightmare Verit compared to a +0 Temp Dex with Spell5/LD.

[DexRain]

You got penalized for killing much higher lvl monsters than your char probably, that's why clock giving you crap exp

 

Renewal got this exp penalty and exp bonus system for killing monsters that are close to your character lvl

 

 

Yeah I've been back for a bit over 2 months and this is still strange to me, so many old leveling locations have been shifted upwards because of this, CT used to be a solid leveling ground for mages from like lvl 40 all the way to 9x, Niff and GH Chiv got bumped up too so I need to find somewhere new to grind out my GC/Heal Sader.

 

Is magma dungeon lvl 1 still good for wizards?  Used to be great exp with an FS back in the day starting as soon as you got SG10

[Sewasan]

According to iRO wiki, it only affects normal monsters. But anyway, iRO wiki isnt guaranteed to be 100% correct, it would be nice for someone who have been hunting MVPs to give us a bit of more clarification.

Works on anything

[Azumatsu]

I wouldn't. It's more expensive to upgrade a +9 La'cryma to +10 by normal means than to buy a +10 La'cryma, and those cards are not on the cheap side, even though they're quite cheap now. Better save money and buy a +10 La'cryma, or make an upgrader MS, stock a bunch of La'crymas and upgrade them till you get a +10.


As I said before, the break-even point is close to 80, but for my setups (One +15 Echo of Tomb Raider Crimson Rod vs. 4 +13 La'cryma Sticks: Big Ben/Hell Apocalypse, Big Ben/Cobalt Mineral, N. Mimic/Ancient Tree, N. Mimic/Bradium Golem) it's closer to 40. So I default La'cryma when I fight these 4 races.

I see most warlock using waterball to kill MVPs nowdays and that skill bring really huge dps. That's pretty interesting, since WL can tank with SW and can wearing shield. Result more tanky than ranger

And i see WL use Crimson rock to clear mob. But seems i can't afford +9 NAM FAW cause tight budget. My question, how much diference Crimson rock damage without NAM with your setup? Maybe you already testing it

[Kusanagisama]

I see most warlock using waterball to kill MVPs nowdays and that skill bring really huge dps. That's pretty interesting, since WL can tank with SW and can wearing shield. Result more tanky than ranger

And i see WL use Crimson rock to clear mob. But seems i can't afford +9 NAM FAW cause tight budget. My question, how much diference Crimson rock damage without NAM with your setup? Maybe you already testing it

 

On Big Bens:

 

+9 FAW of Intellectual = 180~200K damage

+13 Flame FAW (NAM Card) = 210~250K damage.

[Azumatsu]

On Big Bens:

 

+9 FAW of Intellectual = 180~200K damage

+13 Flame FAW (NAM Card) = 210~250K damage.

thanks kusa for the info 

[Aleister]

Hi, main sorcerer here.

 

I love everything about sorcerers. Since the design (for me is the coolest character design in the game) to the damage and summons. 

 

As every class, sorcerers need a lot of gear to work because without gears the cooldown is extremely long.

 

Physical wave will be your best friend in your griding to lvling up alone. The gears you will buy have to be cast reduction and matk% increase. I highly recommend you to create a sorcerer just if you can afford all the gear he needs to be good. 

[mlmf]

much replies ! many comments ! wow posts !

quick questions though; how is nightmare verit card is better then 200 int proc ? my guess is becuase WL doesn't scale well with int?

Yes the 200 added in is amazing as it adds 300matk when it procs. But thats the problem, the 200 int has to proc. A nv card guarantees a 10% increase in matk which if you have say 900matk, adds a constant 90 matk. So 90 matk every time, or 300 matk but only when it triggers. If you can easily find a consistent, efficient, and reliable way to get that 200 int to trigger then go for it. Or save yourself the trouble of procing something for less damage.

[LordYggdrasill]

On Big Bens:

 

+9 FAW of Intellectual = 180~200K damage

+13 Flame FAW (NAM Card) = 210~250K damage.

 

But getting FAW to +13 is a pain, I doubt many people will be able to accomplish this. Maybe comparing +9 FAW of Intellectual and +9 Flame FAW?

Edited by LordYggdrasill, 26 April 2017 - 04:30 AM.

[Ashuckel]

NAM will only lose if the faw is at like, +3 or bellow lol( it might still do just the same)

[Kusanagisama]

But getting FAW to +13 is a pain, I doubt many people will be able to accomplish this. Maybe comparing +9 FAW of Intellectual and +9 Flame FAW?

 

Too late for that. My Flame FAW was +10 since the Enriched Hammer right before the last one. Took me 23 tries (6 with Safe to 10s ) to upgrade this motherfocking rebelious wings... Also, I'm not one of the richies that post here int the forums to have multiple Flame FAWS (in this specific case, I don't think any of them have, though XD). Also, he asked for tests with my setup, so... =P

 

The damage increase is 3% per upgrade, but it's calculated over the base damage. The difference is not obvious because you'll add Red Lichtern Cards (+15%) and Gloves of Alchemy (+20%), but this should give a good idea about what to expect (1.62/1.35 = 1.2, so a +9 Flame FAW will increase you overall damage with fire spells in ~20% compared to an Immune or Clean FAW).

[WhiteHerb]

so much math in here... *flies away*

 

 

 

[Gabrielr04]

To have a good understanding about builds, the differences between them, how the formulas and situational effect item works the math must be appreciated! Rip

[mlmf]

so much math in here... *flies away*

Atk, atk%, Matk, matk%, race, size, skill, element, property modifiers stack separately, one increasing the base of the other before going to the next one. Balancing the ratio of all these modifiers could easily be a difference of 200-300 matk for the end damage result.

Matk to matk% to race% to property%, and so on.

50% matk < 25% matk and 25% race

More modifiers and the more balanced they are, the greater the effect, but at the cost of specialization. Players during woe and pvp, stack themselves with matk, demi human%, and medium size modifiers to get the best damage results possible