203 replies to this topic

[senpa1]

real suggestion?

 

god item pieces should be 1x drop rate, not increased by anything (gum, VIP, events, etc.), so they accumulate much slower.

Edited by senpa1, 30 July 2017 - 08:46 AM.

[Easly]

God items were only an issue on Chaos, and before this Ymir because cheaters killed the server and farmed god item pieces. As long as that -_- doesnt happen here it wont be a problem.

[mattxor]

Oh in its current state it will happen here for sure. That is the point of this thread to bring attention to this problem before it snow balls.

Edited by mattxor, 30 July 2017 - 08:52 AM.

[Acuwrex]

real suggestion?

god item pieces should be 1x drop rate, not increased by anything (gum, VIP, events, etc.), so they accumulate much slower.

This.

You used to be able to even steal from the chests back in the day.

[RealGarion]

I think I see your point. So this entices new guilds to become bigger and more powerful themselves so that they may have a higher chance of getting a godly item of their own.

 

But I think the problem comes if a really strong guild keeps on holding these castles and creating goldy items that nobody else ever gets any chance anymore.

 

Btw, I'm not even arguing against disabling godly items anyway. I was arguing against disabling mini-boss/MVP items together with godly items. I was just comparing the chances of acquiring these.

 

 

As i said i am ok wie MVP and miniboss cards, i just point out the have a similiar rarety and powerful aspect as godlikes, well its as always debateable.

 

But yeah thats the point, on every server were Woe was a think, it happend sooner or later, that one guild startet to slowly but surely snowball to infinity and on the other side guilds that particapate in Woe starts to deminish over time.

 

Mhm its actually like a huge FFA in any strategy game, the early advantage carrys often enough extremy well over to the end game.

[Xellie]

They should actually expire after a year. Like gone. 

 

And secondly it's gonna be renewal eventually there will be more powerful things. 

[RealGarion]

They should actually expire after a year. Like gone. 

 

And secondly it's gonna be renewal eventually there will be more powerful things. 

 

if i remember correctly from other posts, the Godlike-item-snowball-effect (i kinda like this word creation so:  TM) is a problem on classic server as well right? As far as i remember you are greatly active there and in the Woe community of classic?

[Acuwrex]

They should actually expire after a year. Like gone.

And secondly it's gonna be renewal eventually there will be more powerful things.

I support this.

[Xellie]

if i remember correctly from other posts, the Godlike-item-snowball-effect (i kinda like this word creation so:  TM) is a problem on classic server as well right? As far as i remember you are greatly active there and in the Woe community of classic?

 

Yes but, not to offend any classic players, but it wasn't the result of god items creating god items that caused them to snowball, it was a lack of ambition. Most guilds simply didn't care to compete. Then they complained when one guild made more items than their zero whilst they had multiple sets in storage. 

 

And that;s the huge problem, making people want to do the work required. Personally I'm ok with it I think they're supposed to be rare. 

[VModCinnamon]

Greetings, I will kindly ask those interested in the discussion to be constructive, things like "delete this thread" or "dump ideas" is not really helpful. Thank you.

[RealGarion]

Yes but, not to offend any classic players, but it wasn't the result of god items creating god items that caused them to snowball, it was a lack of ambition. Most guilds simply didn't care to compete. Then they complained when one guild made more items than their zero whilst they had multiple sets in storage. 

 

And that;s the huge problem, making people want to do the work required. Personally I'm ok with it I think they're supposed to be rare. 

 

I see thanks for the clarification, i guess the issue is then a different one but the result somewhat the same.

Back in the day on EuRo for example it was actually a snowball effect if i remeber correctly, at one point the had to set in an extra rule, that stated that no guild is allowed to have more than one (maybe it was two, i cant remember it tbh), since there were guilds so utterly overgeared compared to others, that the held a whole siege side (complete pron ,complete geffen etc) on thier own. 

[Xellie]

I see thanks for the clarification, i guess the issue is then a different one but the result somewhat the same.

Back in the day on EuRo for example it was actually a snowball effect if i remeber correctly, at one point the had to set in an extra rule, that stated that no guild is allowed to have more than one (maybe it was two, i cant remember it tbh), since there were guilds so utterly overgeared compared to others, that the held a whole siege side (complete pron ,complete geffen etc) on thier own. 

 

Even with all the god items in the world, I can't imagine that working without a serious number imbalance.

[AlexBaker]

I see thanks for the clarification, i guess the issue is then a different one but the result somewhat the same.

Back in the day on EuRo for example it was actually a snowball effect if i remeber correctly, at one point the had to set in an extra rule, that stated that no guild is allowed to have more than one (maybe it was two, i cant remember it tbh), since there were guilds so utterly overgeared compared to others, that the held a whole siege side (complete pron ,complete geffen etc) on thier own. 

Wut, even if you have access to GTB and god items you are not winning while massively out numbered.

 

Was there one alliance of 50 people and 12 10 man guilds on the server?

 

Also another point is dedicated players are going to keep being dedicated, they will end up with an 'unfair' advantage unless you delete all high end items. I've got a lot of stuff on this server; you could wipe my account and spread out the wealth to make things 'fair' but in 2 weeks I'm going to be back in my spot cause yall afking in alde. 

Edited by AlexBaker, 30 July 2017 - 09:39 AM.

[roflcopter123456]

would be overall healthier same goes for miniboss and mvp cards . At least for woe.
However it wont gonna happen so somewhere down the line ,when woe is happening ,the first god item is made, a guild will dominate maybe a second one will, too and woe will slowly dying 

 

Lets disable everything and run naked. No need to kill MVPs and play WoE then. Lets just deinestall the game and we are fine.
 

[AlexBaker]

Lets disable everything and run naked. No need to kill MVPs and play WoE then. Lets just deinestall the game and we are fine.
 

 

 

1/1 novice-only WoE

[RealGarion]

Even with all the god items in the world, I can't imagine that working without a serious number imbalance.

 

 

 

 

Wut, even if you have access to GTB and god items you are not winning while massively out numbered.

 

Was there one alliance of 50 people and 12 10 man guilds on the server?

 

 

 

The guilds at that time were usually relativly small, it was way before the Guild Extension and it was pretty uncommon for allies to exists , the two big players at that time had a lot of advantages in level compared to others.

A while after that smaller guild started to merge to big allies, but at that point the power gap was already pretty significant.

At time passed the power gap was a little bit closed the couldnt hold all castles at once anymore, but the regular hold 3-4 castles at once.

I guess the main advantages they had were the amount of wizzards and knights at the start. 

 

So yes at the starts the numbers where the significiant factor for thier huge power advantage, later as guild and allies startet to even out across the server, the gap in equipment started to play a greater role.

 

Dont get me wrong i dont blame God likes for the start of the woe , not even in the sligthest , i just want to point out what sometimes an advantage early on can lead to in later stages of a game.

Edited by RealGarion, 30 July 2017 - 09:45 AM.

[roflcopter123456]

I see thanks for the clarification, i guess the issue is then a different one but the result somewhat the same.

Back in the day on EuRo for example it was actually a snowball effect if i remeber correctly, at one point the had to set in an extra rule, that stated that no guild is allowed to have more than one (maybe it was two, i cant remember it tbh), since there were guilds so utterly overgeared compared to others, that the held a whole siege side (complete pron ,complete geffen etc) on thier own. 

 

This has nothing to do with the topic. This was because all people were noobs and got bashed and woe was released on chaos too early. had nothing to do with gear, equip or mvpcards. this also never happened on loki. good organized guilds will always win. take their godlikes, mvp cards, miniboss cards. it wont change anything. the problem when you suck is you. even if you take their stuff, you still suck. so limit maximum of castles, so suckers get also some. these suggestions are so useless. why dont we just roll out who gets castles then?!

you should improve yourself, but whining in forums to nerf stuff you dont have and will never get is so much easier. i cant read this loser-spirit-sh.it anymore.

 

btw many mvp and minibosscards help sh.it in woe.

[RealGarion]

This has nothing to do with the topic. This was because all people were noobs and got bashed and woe was released on chaos too early. had nothing to do with gear, equip or mvpcards. this also never happened on loki. good organized guilds will always win. take their godlikes, mvp cards, miniboss cards. it wont change anything. the problem when you suck is you. even if you take their stuff, you still suck. so limit maximum of castles, so suckers get also some. these suggestions are so useless. why dont we just roll out who gets castles then?!

you should improve yourself, but whining in forums to nerf stuff you dont have and will never get is so much easier. i cant read this loser-spirit-sh.it anymore.

 

btw many mvp and minibosscards help sh.it in woe.

 

just for you again maybe you get the point.

 

I dont care if Woe has Goldikes or not i am fine either way

same goes for Miniboss Cards

same goes for MVP Cards.

 

They are earned fair and square and i will fairly often than not defend this point. Ragnarok is a game of hard work, so if someone puts work into his equip he or she is fully in his right way to use it, period, same goes for his abilitly to play his class or even more than one. I dont envy anyones skills or equip ( well to a certain extend, i envy it enough to work for it aswell ).

 

Thats not the point of this conversation and i would argue it never was.  I just point out snowball effects can happen in woe and i stand to the point that they very well may as well happen on Odin and most likely no matter what rules (if any ) would take place to weaken such effect, it may very well happen still.

 I think it is a matter of time mostly , the only think i am here for right now is to point out that these effects can happen and you might want to think about it.

 

At one beautiful day my friend you might have an all around +20 high end overpowered ultra gear with your own personal set of functional Mini-Boss and MVP cards plus godlikes and for sure you have earned them at this point, the only question you may find yourself asking at this point , will you have anyone that fights with you or will they just teleport?

Edited by RealGarion, 30 July 2017 - 10:02 AM.

[Ignasia]

I do understand the mentality, but it does take effort to make a God Item in the first place.  Same with MVPs, especially given the items required for them are in the guild dungeons, and drop from the chests randomly...and require multiple castles in multiple realms to collect for any one God Item.

 

Removing God Items disincentivizes people from playing WoE, because as much fun as fighting other players is, the main reason to own castles is for the guild dungeon.  While it wouldn't outright kill WoE, it would cull participation and desire to own castles, and which castles anyone would want to aim for.

 

Nerfing God Items in terms of stats would nullify the whole point, and again, just reduce desire and willingness for many to participate in WoE.  The only times I've ever played in guilds, or started guilds for WoE, was purely FOR God Items.  Otherwise there's PvP.

 

 

So if you want some measure of fairness, just remove certain gears from working in WoE to begin with.  GTB should return, but be negated in WoE or reduced to 10% effectiveness or something along those lines.  God Items should also be negated in WoE where maybe it prevents entering the maps while they're equipped during WoE times (so you can use them in the dungeons).

 

Plenty of guilds have also proven that God Items hardly make or break WoE.  It's more about tactics, builds, smart equipment, and strategy.

 

 

That way people who have worked their asses off to gain a God Item, or spent the effort and money forming a guild can keep their item, use it because it's bloody fun as heck, and be able to enjoy a more "fair" WoE (seriously I don't agree with this, but I get how overwhelmed certain new players or players with limited time on their hands get when it comes to feeling adequate to competition both for themselves and their overall guild readiness to capture a castle).  Don't destroy something that is powerful because it's damn difficult to make, and only X number can be created at a time.

 

I do however like the cap on a guild master not being allowed to make a new God Item until another guild has made one.  That would certainly curb certain guilds who know how to rush the quest from being absolutely dominant.  Maybe upwards of two guilds, or a forced timeline of one God Item per guild per month.

 

Also God items do not always guarantee an MVP, especially if that guild/person is late to the party.  I have to wonder if in the course of working up to 3rd the Izlude Arena opens up before being converted to the Academy.  Probably not.  Or maybe the Summoner once Reset Stones enter the Kafra Shop.

 

[Tolrin]

The only reasonable post in this thread is the one suggesting that rate increases not function on god item components.  In fact, rate increases probably shouldn't function on treasure at all, it's been a problem ever since gum, and especially HE gum got introduced.  Consider, for a moment, the fact that with full rate increases a 1 econ fort over a week drops nearly as many components as a 100 econ fort would without rate increases, and you can immediately understand many of the issues modern servers face with WoE (ie. low attendance rates, low motivation to defend forts, many people just breaking forts at the end, huge numbers of god items.)

 

Unfortunately I don't think there's actually any way to prevent rate increases from effecting the drop tables of specific targets.

[Xellie]

Parts should be rewarded through an npc, not through a drop rate modifiable monster. 

 

but they'll never do that

[senpa1]

what about drop rates for the items that come from cards? Like myst case/raydric archer cards, afaik those don't get increased by anything

[Xellie]

what about drop rates for the items that come from cards? Like myst case/raydric archer cards, afaik those don't get increased by anything

 

They do. It's just small enough that it's hard to notice.

[RealGarion]

Reading the last post bacisly the notion is :

- let them have thier MVP & MiniBoss Cards in Woe

- let them have thier Godlikes, but make sure the droprate is reasonable and not tweaked by any means other then investment of the castle 

Thats fairly reasonable, i for myself looking forward to see who is gonna dominating the first woe 

[senpa1]

i just hope it's not 2ez