58 replies to this topic

[9851170220163549840]

Dragon saga has to make some kind of money. Having default sets and stats would make this (spending money) obsolete for a large group of players and new players to come. Obviously you can just farm everything out but people have to buy insurance in order to sell them, and if a decent amount of players just stop buying them cause they got free sets, its sorta meh.

 

But I mean if popcorn is in for that I'm cool with it since I read somewhere pve cashes in more money than pvp players.

 

Well, if my idea (or copied idea) will be implemented. The Dragon Saga team will just need to make the PvE more exciting so that people will still farm and spend money out of it. Make it more rewarding but hard-core that even +20 weaps will not kill the supposed-to-be hardest and last boss in the game look like a piece of cake.

 

***************************************

One example is that, when I was switching jobs as a ninja. I was randomly asking people for help to finish off bone dragon and a random summoner help. To my surprise, the bone dragon did not last even for 3 secs.

 

I understand that he may be full geared and there's a gap with their levels (him and the bone dragon) but it is still too easy to look at. This does not usually happen imo and a high end player should at least take a minute to finish of a Raid Boss even with the gaps and all.

 

****************************************

 

Going back:

 

That way, people will still aim to do upgrades for PvE to farm High-end games for PvE and have PvP be enjoyable at the same time~. Don't forget the PvP items are still there that you need to farm too~ The team will just need to have more PvE content to balance the game.

 

And yeah, with the compensation mode PVP, roles will go back to normal. Healers will be healers, supports will be supports, Tanks will be tanks and DPS will be DPS. Since healers and summoners will be forced to be supports again since they have a flat default ATK SPD and other stats. This would really make PVP more fun and diverse.

 

In addition, if compensation mode will be turned on, newbies will be able to attend PVP and will just have a difference in skills (basic combat) and not in gears. Some might be a cancer but hey! that adds up some fun!

 

Edited by 9851170220163549840, 06 September 2017 - 08:58 PM.

[Popcorn]

We are not planning to implement such mode. Not yet and not in the future.

There are different ways to create a complete +20 Legendary gear with full elements entirely in-game. 

 

As long as X-Attack classes still have their "x-attack extensions" (like diffusion cannon, helix shot, random shot, etc.) they will dominate every PvP mode.

But if you PvP guys want it, we can for sure block those in PvP - then healer classes are back to healers, summoners are back to summon their summons and destroyer will be an archer again. That would fix many of those "Invokers, Summoners and Destroyers are way too OP problem".

 

[Agitodesu]

We are not planning to implement such mode. Not yet and not in the future.

There are different ways to create a complete +20 Legendary gear with full elements entirely in-game. 

 

As long as X-Attack classes still have their "x-attack extensions" (like diffusion cannon, helix shot, random shot, etc.) they will dominate every PvP mode.

But if you PvP guys want it, we can for sure block those in PvP - then healer classes are back to healers, summoners are back to summon their summons and destroyer will be an archer again. That would fix many of those "Invokers, Summoners and Destroyers are way too OP problem".

 

What about removing death buffs?

[KynrSwop]

We are not planning to implement such mode. Not yet and not in the future.

There are different ways to create a complete +20 Legendary gear with full elements entirely in-game. 

 

As long as X-Attack classes still have their "x-attack extensions" (like diffusion cannon, helix shot, random shot, etc.) they will dominate every PvP mode.

But if you PvP guys want it, we can for sure block those in PvP - then healer classes are back to healers, summoners are back to summon their summons and destroyer will be an archer again. That would fix many of those "Invokers, Summoners and Destroyers are way too OP problem".

 

 

I would be perfectly ok with that, if they dont start using macros again to cheat......

 

Because this game is based on the x spam....

 

All u see is x spam non stop, i think before all the changes was even better, u guys could make it a try to see what happens

 

1/2 weeks in test

 

If i game have classes its meant to have all playable and have fun

What about removing death buffs?

 

 

completly agree with that! useles they abuse the bufs for own benefit

[Precrush]

What about changing the element system that causes x-spam to be so good?

I really don't like how atleast invokers would be without semi-effective x-spam since the other offensive options are really limited. Furthermore a lot of the support skills have already been nerfed or blocked and the rest of them are constantly complained about as well.

Also if I imagine a world without x-spam I see people being really difficult to kill. So if you do that I recommend thinking about what other changes you need with it for it to actually improve the situation and not just make it suck in a different way. And if that's any less effort than changing x-spam.

[cenen]

We are not planning to implement such mode. Not yet and not in the future.

There are different ways to create a complete +20 Legendary gear with full elements entirely in-game. 

 

As long as X-Attack classes still have their "x-attack extensions" (like diffusion cannon, helix shot, random shot, etc.) they will dominate every PvP mode.

But if you PvP guys want it, we can for sure block those in PvP - then healer classes are back to healers, summoners are back to summon their summons and destroyer will be an archer again. That would fix many of those "Invokers, Summoners and Destroyers are way too OP problem".

 

What do you mean? As an invoker I won't have my X attack, but I can use all my heals in their original cool down and instant heal too? And also revive? I am OK with that!! #Makehealershealeragain!

[Rossbach]

Yes for getting rid of extensions. That or nerf element dmg from the extensions themselves. (ie if they shoot 2x then half the element dmg each hit)

 

 

doing the above + Getting rid of death buff + allow team healing at a low enough rate for team play. If people are too tanky as a result the death buffs can always be implemented as a temp dmg boost.

Edited by Rossbach, 07 September 2017 - 12:41 AM.

[Onyzer]

As long as X-Attack classes still have their "x-attack extensions" (like diffusion cannon, helix shot, random shot, etc.) they will dominate every PvP mode.

But if you PvP guys want it, we can for sure block those in PvP - then healer classes are back to healers, summoners are back to summon their summons and destroyer will be an archer again. That would fix many of those "Invokers, Summoners and Destroyers are way too OP problem".

 

I think the block of x-attack-extensions would be too huge as a nerf, even though if it comes up I'm not really against it. But it would need more balance afterwards, because currently Summoners' summons are useless besides the Golgon's stun and the fact that they cast Rolling Stone faster. It would justify the Dark Knight, though. About Invokers, thinking about them being only supports to their team is logic. Though they should be able to heal the others (with reasonable amounts of course). What about making Sanctuary having interesting healing amount in PvP ?

 

You can try it during a testing phase, maybe a shorter one than a week this time.

[Vossel]

We are not planning to implement such mode. Not yet and not in the future.

There are different ways to create a complete +20 Legendary gear with full elements entirely in-game. 

 

As long as X-Attack classes still have their "x-attack extensions" (like diffusion cannon, helix shot, random shot, etc.) they will dominate every PvP mode.

But if you PvP guys want it, we can for sure block those in PvP - then healer classes are back to healers, summoners are back to summon their summons and destroyer will be an archer again. That would fix many of those "Invokers, Summoners and Destroyers are way too OP problem".

 

i have suggested this alrdy many times and will do it over and over again. The strong about those x spamming is that they have element dmg on each of that hit. just remove the element dmg of helix shot /diffusion canon/ double shot/ Random shot/ Two Action shot. Remove element dmg of those x attack altering skills and remove the debuff on their x attacks the classes have, this could balance a lot out. They will keep their element dmg on their normal x attacks without those buffs active.

 

 

 Vossel   

Get over the past! Past is past dont keep being a hater for what happened in emporia in old days..... if i make a post to get suggestion so i can add them and Staff use it as an improvement ofc i edit!

I READ What ALL say and EDIT post! If some thingi dont agree i let them be like i posted. No need to look bad or good!

 

Do you know what Suggestion are? and Opinions?

AGAIN WILL IMPROVE LIST DAILY AND ADD SUGGESTION TO LIST!

 

 

 

Let me Clarify this.

Like i care what you did back then. What i am telling you are facts about the game.

Summoner is still the strongest class in terms of DPS and is not meant to be a healer class.

So why do you want it to get buffed again and also get a huge heal by a summon you cant even kill?

i dont post all this stuff cuz i hate you for that Emporia thing back then, i post all this because i want to improve the game in a good and healthy way and not in a Summoner-Only way.

For sure some of my suggestions are not the best cuz even i do mistakes, but if needed i excuse and accept i was wrong.

You will never see me creating a post where i only list up buffs for Overlord and nerfs for all other classes.

[Bustincaps]

I really don't like how atleast invokers would be without semi-effective x-spam since the other offensive options are really limited. Furthermore a lot of the support skills have already been nerfed or blocked and the rest of them are constantly complained about as well.

Also if I imagine a world without x-spam I see people being really difficult to kill. So if you do that I recommend thinking about what other changes you need with it for it to actually improve the situation and not just make it suck in a different way. And if that's any less effort than changing x-spam.

 

It's not an offensive class soooooooo I don't see your argument here regarding the class not having alternative options for offense. It's a support class... so it should play a support roll. It was never meant to be and shouldn't be one of the top DPS classes in the game, considering it's also the class with the most sustain. Restricting the x spam buffs would simply make the class what it's supposed to be: a healing tank. They would still excel in multi PvP since they're hard to kill and have good team-based crowd control and debuffs. As far as 1v1 goes, they still have Barbarian. 'Nuff said... xD Things would simply be back to normal, and we'd see other classes in multi PvP like we used to. Full Invoker multi PvP is just dumb...

[KyoneskeMaekho]

i have suggested this alrdy many times and will do it over and over again. The strong about those x spamming is that they have element dmg on each of that hit. just remove the element dmg of helix shot /diffusion canon/ double shot/ Random shot/ Two Action shot. Remove element dmg of those x attack altering skills and remove the debuff on their x attacks the classes have, this could balance a lot out. They will keep their element dmg on their normal x attacks without those buffs active.

 

 

Let me Clarify this.

Like i care what you did back then. What i am telling you are facts about the game.

Summoner is still the strongest class in terms of DPS and is not meant to be a healer class.

So why do you want it to get buffed again and also get a huge heal by a summon you cant even kill?

i dont post all this stuff cuz i hate you for that Emporia thing back then, i post all this because i want to improve the game in a good and healthy way and not in a Summoner-Only way.

For sure some of my suggestions are not the best cuz even i do mistakes, but if needed i excuse and accept i was wrong.

You will never see me creating a post where i only list up buffs for Overlord and nerfs for all other classes.

 

 

Lets get this in the right way...

 

I posted about summoner because i played always as summoner since they where released!  

  Not because Now they are like a TREND caracther  & now its a must be for PVE!

  If i remenber well when this class was released no one like the Blue! All people compain about lag skill etc...

 

So If know well about this class i post about it & tell what i think about the class and add some about other classes!

Or do you prefer me to post random numbers and skill just to look better and have a better post?

 

Thats why i asked all to give suggestion so i add them to post daily  to make a complet post and Staff or GM can use them as reference!

 

About the Healing i mention it because people complain we have a bird that heals!  Heals?? Really 3.5k HP over 15sec while a END GAME Invoker can kill us with x Spam in less than 10sec?  ofc a non geared player will die to END GAME players that are all maxed!

 

Im not saying my post is the best or its a must be! I'm asking help to improve it tgt all player can make a good list and might get a good solution!

 

Most complains come from New Players That dont even know how to gear:

 

Example: A lv. 80 player came pvp against me.... Green/Special Equips+6/10 no sockets! like minimun damage, 3 hits i kill whats coming next? You Hacker! u see all arround complaining some hack because they dont know what to do in game or they just want to annoy people.

 

 

Back them like you said "i excuse and accept i was wrong" in emporia and excused to you but you always refused and ignored, but past is past im ok with it 2.

 

My favorite Class in-game so you can know its Ninja | Overlord & Summoner!

I got those classes i loved to play with them because they where fun in pvp / and way more fun on PVE Because u have a lot skills to use and make combos, its fun made me wnat farm more!

 

Why i "quit" them?

When summoner came i loved it like a "Dark Elf" and reminds me of "Line age 2" Characters... so i played and maxed it! i got wel know with this char and keept it always as main main char!

Others got nerfed, so after all was kinda forced to put "them apart" but was my choise! You got your char nerfed and still playing and something to be proud of.

 

If i got some typing errors im sorry

[Precrush]

Sure. But not being an offensive class doesn't mean that it shouldn't have a reasonable amount of offensive tools. In my opinion invokers won't have enough damage dealing skills to be enjoyable without x-spam. There's 8 of them in total, 3 of which can be used to deal reasonable amounts of damage.

 

There's a reason why invokers have the x-spam modifiers in the first place and that's it. It's part of their core design. Also I don't see why x-spam modifiers should be removed instead of making both the x-spam and the element system fair and fun for everybody.

[SideLeo]

"I hope one day, enter in BSQ and see all classes fighting, using all your skills (with nerfs turnin better and fair the game/PvP), not excluding some classes,

because the bad nerfs turning uselles with other classes". That's to much for expect?  

[Apocryphos]

This threads scope doesnt do class balance any justice, its comparing destroyer damage to every other class if that's the case can i get unrecoverable snipe and gatling?ofc not. The point is hes comparing a true damage dealer to classes with much more uses. The op needs to rethink his balancing with the nature of the skills each class possess and what role they play. Comparing destroyer damage to summoner/priest isn't balancing.

[Agitodesu]

Don't touch damage yet, remove death buffs. Then after testing out the bsq then adjust buffs/nerfs as needed. All changes are usually because of bsq and rarerly ew and never pvp lobby. Every nerf hits lobby also which is very popular since most players have respect, if they don't no one would pvp them so they lose face. Everything was balanced around death buffs but we have never tried to remove that then apply balancing.

[cartouche]

as said before, I would not support removing x spam altogether.

 

I would however support splitting element damage. 

3 hits per attack ? a third of the element damage per hit.

 

makes sense to me.

 

invokers remain as they are, but can;t kill someone in 4 seconds anymore.

summoners , well, they summon as in the name.

 

destroyers the x spam would split ele dmg in two, but they keep all their skills, snipe, shootdown...

 

I think this would be the most fair and balanced way going forward.

[Fliederduft78]

as said before, I would not support removing x spam altogether.

 

I would however support splitting element damage. 

3 hits per attack ? a third of the element damage per hit.

 

makes sense to me.

 

invokers remain as they are, but can;t kill someone in 4 seconds anymore.

summoners , well, they summon as in the name.

 

destroyers the x spam would split ele dmg in two, but they keep all their skills, snipe, shootdown...

 

I think this would be the most fair and balanced way going forward.

 

I completely support this. I think this is actually the most fair solution for all the x-spammer classes.

Regarding the death buffs, I'm not a pvp player myself but even I know these get abused a lot. So a removal of them seems like a good idea to me.

[Roseupfromdead]

BSQ Suggest:

1. Remove death buff

2. Suspended who log multiple char in bsq to make himself's team enter one more player then quit the alt char.

3. Create a waiting list, if teams are not even players, auto kick the lowest score player to waiting list, when one more join , then let both side enter one, prevent 3 vs4, 4 vs 5 , 5 vs 6.

4. Penalty who quit in the middle, prevent people log and quit to let their friend, or even their main char can join the more people side.
(Penalty like : can not enter next round, if happens more than 2 times , can not enter a day, if happens more than 2days, can not enter for a week , etc)

5.add more reward like:
Most score player (who got most score, can be lose side, just best player)
Most kill player ( show how many players killed count)
Undead player (who can survive the whole bsq gamw without dead)
Most dead player (who sacrifice the most)
Score board(show top 10 or 20 or 50 players list who earn most scores in bsq , renew every month etc, reward a gift to top 10: can be like mission map capsule 50, dust, rainbow bag )

6. Suspends who switching team, thats usually come along with log alt char to enter. Always happened.

The most important things:
Make it fair numbers players,
Take action to those abusing, against rules players. Not like GM cant see not there so they can do it everyday.

[Starkespada1]

The only problem i see with the element divided up into 1/3 or 1/2 damage in X spamming classes is that their raw damage is already nerfed to oblivion for x spamming reasons.

 

Have you seen the damage a Invoker or summoner do vs a person who resists their element damage? Invokers rarely hit over double digits and summoners sometimes cant even crit over 1k damage even though they are 500% CD when they face some one who has maxed their resist

 

Again it feels like everyone talking about a x spam class fighting vs a person with no resistance and suggesting nerfs based on that, continuing to nerf X spammers in both raw damage and element damage is just overkill i feel like only 1 should be touched otherwise no one is going to ever die in BSQ or Emporia.

 

If people are going to be saying invokers drop people in 4 seconds, that's taking it to the extreme like a fully socketed element invoker vs a person with little to no resist so the invoker going to drop that person like a brick, i wonder why no one also compares it to the other extreme cases where people fully negate element attack and invokers now tickle you and have no chance of dropping you since their raw damage is a complete joke even if they some how have 600% crit damage.

 

I just don't like people saying this and that but ignoring the fact that element can be fully and nearly fully resisted. Keep all scenarios in mind 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Agitodesu]

as said before, I would not support removing x spam altogether.

 

I would however support splitting element damage. 

3 hits per attack ? a third of the element damage per hit.

 

makes sense to me.

 

invokers remain as they are, but can;t kill someone in 4 seconds anymore.

summoners , well, they summon as in the name.

 

destroyers the x spam would split ele dmg in two, but they keep all their skills, snipe, shootdown...

 

I think this would be the most fair and balanced way going forward.

 

 

I completely support this. I think this is actually the most fair solution for all the x-spammer classes.

Regarding the death buffs, I'm not a pvp player myself but even I know these get abused a lot. So a removal of them seems like a good idea to me.

 

Then it would be fair to revert the damage reduction w.e 70% or something on continuous and increase the base damage back up 1.2 to 1.3 or something while cutting element damage to 1/3rd. like starkespada said, if you are hitting a character of the opposite resist you don't deal damage period. However it is fair that you can build a universal stat called Mdef thats obtainable through any peice of gear, unlike elements that you can stack half of or low of everything.

I offered this suggestion on the release of elements, but it was declined. It would only be fair to revert the damage nerf because it didn't solve the issue, no need to nerf something with the logic of "a causes b and b causes c so a causes c".

 

Currently I can record a video of a maxed out summoner and invoker hitting me for less than 200 damage for summoners and less than 50 on invokers. HOWEVER like the post above said, everyone is taking into account that everyone has maxed out atks but NO resists. It's all rock paper scissors like intended.

 

Every class thats in the balanced/low tier can outdamage an invoker and summoner in the proper scenario if you have equal gear with equal resists and elemental attack.

Edited by Agitodesu, 07 September 2017 - 12:46 PM.

[HakannBlast]

the only thing i want to see from x spammers is that their skills   double shot helix shot and random shot get a rework where they become 10/10 skills so they actualy have to work like everyone else to deal damage, i dont  mind if the damage at 10/10 is better them nowadays i just want them to work hard and not get free damage

[Vossel]

Agito, what are you going to do if a Summoner/Invoker focused on Single element attack?? are you gonna Stack single element resistence?? I highly doubt that.

so with Single element attack focus they still deal an okay amount of element dmg each hit, against players stacked like 2element focus on their single element they still deal ~500 element dmg each hit, against 4 element defence focus even more

so having it multiplied by 3 means 1.5k+ element dmg each x hitting.

I didnt understand why they gave Summoner/destroyer the same debuff as Invoker.

I am totally fine if they get the debuff removed completly (even invoker) but they get the element dmg removed from the x attack altering skills so they have to decide, deal okay MDMG with my full element dmg or deal 3 times my MDMG with crits but no element dmg. This way they have to decide on the fact what kind of enemies are they facing. Good Defence, no element resistence -> single hits. Good element resistence -> 3 hits & crits. Both of it -> still go for crits n 3 hits.

The Magic dmg is not really the problem anymore (sure if a ATK focused player fights someone who has no defence he will kill him like on an instant but thats just why they focus on ATK to deal the dmg). In my opinion this could make these x spamming classes good against those who have no defence/resistence but not useless against stacked players while not being completly broken against both, because with single attack focus you always have dmg that gets through and that you cant deny/reduce any further.

[Agitodesu]

Agito, what are you going to do if a Summoner/Invoker focused on Single element attack?? are you gonna Stack single element resistence?? I highly doubt that.

so with Single element attack focus they still deal an okay amount of element dmg each hit, against players stacked like 2element focus on their single element they still deal ~500 element dmg each hit, against 4 element defence focus even more

so having it multiplied by 3 means 1.5k+ element dmg each x hitting.

I didnt understand why they gave Summoner/destroyer the same debuff as Invoker.

I am totally fine if they get the debuff removed completly (even invoker) but they get the element dmg removed from the x attack altering skills so they have to decide, deal okay MDMG with my full element dmg or deal 3 times my MDMG with crits but no element dmg. This way they have to decide on the fact what kind of enemies are they facing. Good Defence, no element resistence -> single hits. Good element resistence -> 3 hits & crits. Both of it -> still go for crits n 3 hits.

The Magic dmg is not really the problem anymore (sure if a ATK focused player fights someone who has no defence he will kill him like on an instant but thats just why they focus on ATK to deal the dmg). In my opinion this could make these x spamming classes good against those who have no defence/resistence but not useless against stacked players while not being completly broken against both, because with single attack focus you always have dmg that gets through and that you cant deny/reduce any further.

 

So if what I said goes through and an invoker/summoner stacks single attack,

 

Against an opponent with no resist will be dealing 2375/2 =1187/3=395 elemental damage per ball.

Against a player with just duals will be dealing 2375-1600=775/2=387/3=129 elemental damage per ball. This is assuming they are using elga weapon and 4 hero accessory.

 

So basically if they stack single they won't even do that much damage. That's pretty reasonable if you add in base damage after that remember how everyone wants elements to be secondary damage not primary.

 

That's your scenario, I've stated the duals scenario of doing near no damage, singles add some extra damage IF the idea was applied.

 

I mean another idea would be to remove elemental damage from all x and z based attacks from ALL classes and only let skills apply elements, then proceed to undo all the % nerf and increase the 1.2 to 1.3 or w.e it was before. T His idea would suit your potato more.

[FujiwaraKaito]

Well, i dont pvp so.. but good work there kyo, ur guide in gearing helps.

[IncestBorn]

So if what I said goes through and an invoker/summoner stacks single attack,

 

Against an opponent with no resist will be dealing 2375/2 =1187/3=395 elemental damage per ball.

Against a player with just duals will be dealing 2375-1600=775/2=387/3=129 elemental damage per ball. This is assuming they are using elga weapon and 4 hero accessory.

 

So basically if they stack single they won't even do that much damage. That's pretty reasonable if you add in base damage after that remember how everyone wants elements to be secondary damage not primary.

 

That's your scenario, I've stated the duals scenario of doing near no damage, singles add some extra damage IF the idea was applied.

 

I mean another idea would be to remove elemental damage from all x and z based attacks from ALL classes and only let skills apply elements, then proceed to undo all the % nerf and increase the 1.2 to 1.3 or w.e it was before. T His idea would suit your potato more.

 

So much argument over nothing. Lets stay the facts.

1)Pvp is dead (empty) since the updates to the so call balance, making individuals just straight up abandon the gaming community.

2)BSQ is dead cause the elements are a wrecking ball that has no purpose in low level other than bypass armor defense. (empty)79 below 0 players most time.

3)The game will remain like it has been for the past 10 years, no true balance (same maps, lack of contents) Like someone in the forum stated: we rather take it slow when balancing cause is better. Wrong,​ that's the reason why these game will never be balance.

4)PVE is were most people are staying cause BSQ is broken, only thing that is half balance is level 85.

5)When balancing the game, a true reform most be done and the classes that are most played in PVP_BSQ almost always are the OP classes (Fact) instead they mess up classes that are average at best.  MAKES 0 SENSE.

​6​) Once they make a change, they call it testing phase (bs) and it always stay like it is. As if asking the community will do any good, not knowing that one of the most erratic problems comes from it.

7) Peace be upon a wise-man that once said,"if is not broke, dont fix it, but if it is broke and there is no fix to it, run else-were" Albert Einstein 1947.