57 replies to this topic

[Bazzz]

It's a self fixing problem, when its cheaper to use npc stuff by silvervine going really high in price then people won't use woe boxes anymore.

[MyVictories]

Disabling WoE pots only benefits the players that actually spend money in the game. They can still sell KP items to buy whites / strawberry. You're actually making it pay to win.

 

This only hurts free to play players and pushes those players to either move on or consider activities that might harm their account.

 

Whaaat? The effect is the exact opposite. WoE pots staying in the game have benefitted pay to win players from day 1, and that benefit has only become 6x stronger because a paying player still buys a box for 5 cents, but regular players have to buy silvervine for 600k to afford it as opposed to their initial 100K price back in the day. If you disable them from the cash shop, no more real money instant cheat for HP/SP, all players are forced to earn zeny one way or another to buy brewed potions or strawberries, because the value of HP and SP lost becomes an actual variable. The pay to win players have to put in more effort (sit and sell cash shop goods) to earn zeny to buy potions, and regular players are on an even keel because they can farm (and actually employ support characters as part of efficient farming, wow how good would that be for a meta that is trying to emulate the original design of this game).

 

It's a self fixing problem, when its cheaper to use npc stuff by silvervine going really high in price then people won't use woe boxes anymore.

 

But is it really?

WoE white pots will still heal more, and will still be 2/3rds weight of npc whites. They will also still be utterly destroying the blue herb, blue potion and strawberry market by making SP a near infinite value. 

Silvervine price will have to cross 1.3-1.4m for people to ever want to resort to NPC or regular blue potions to offset those WoE box advantages. I don't think that's going to happen unless WP introduces some crazy p2w items in the cash shop.

Edited by MyVictories, 24 October 2017 - 08:46 PM.

[EwoI]

No, it won't. As someone that has neither much zeny or disposable income silvervine is already getting too expensive.

 

At least if alchs were in I could farm my own supplies.

 

Ranked whites heal more.

Ranked slims heal more and weight much less.

Ranked blues are already worth making because of people using fish.

 

You know I'd be fine with the removal of WoE pots if we could get 50 blues for 5 silvervine and the cat continued to heal for 1000%.

[Kailash]

So what if it slows the leveling process down? Wasn't getting to 99 supposed to feel good in the first place? Now people can do it in a week and just sit AFK at a guild spot waiting to play WoE 2 hours a week. What a terrible meta for server longevity.

 

It's a little late for this. Anyone who wanted to 99, has already 99'd. Also, like people have been saying, the damage is already done, taking them out of the game now will do more harm than good. Ideally, we never should've had these in the 1st place, all removing them will do is make it harder for brand new players.

Also, with the price of silvervine going up, it will sort itself out.

[Hrishi]

WoE white pots will still heal more, and will still be 2/3rds weight of npc whites. They will also still be utterly destroying the blue herb, blue potion and strawberry market by making SP a near infinite value. 

Silvervine price will have to cross 1.3-1.4m for people to ever want to resort to NPC or regular blue potions to offset those WoE box advantages. I don't think that's going to happen unless WP introduces some crazy p2w items in the cash shop.

 

You really don't think Silvervine prices won't cross 1.3-1.4m in the near future? Silvervine prices are fundamentally dependent on the server's inflation. That will not ever stop. Wait a few months and Silvervines will be 1m. Wait some more and they'll be higher. You are quite misguided if you think the price of Silvervine will not constantly increase as time goes on. Look at any past server as an indicator.

 

I already think WoE pots was awful for the game and went against this game's intended design. There's no reason to bring that argument up. However, you cannot introduce something as broken and consequential as WoE pots to a server for a few months and then remove them. That gives existing players a massive headstart when it's hard enough for new players to get a foothold on a server.

 

Removing or increasing their cost will make all existing players fill their accounts with cheap WoE pots. This is a self-fixing problem. There is no need to penalize new players and leave them at a severe disadvantage compared to those players who have abused cheap WoE pots all these months.

 

Just imagine somebody new joining and discovering that everybody who has been playing before them have an infinite supply of potions locked to their accounts and they need to level using NPC Whites. That would be the easiest way to tell new players to off.

Edited by Hrishi, 24 October 2017 - 09:30 PM.

[MuffinMikey]

Honestly, I wouldn't go as far to say that the HP pots are the best, but it's the SP pots that make it ridiculous... I for one can admit for using an endless amount of woe pots for that specific reason. But I believe for the time being everyone is probably using the new skeleton cat pet that heals 1073% with fresh fish... and you can carry amount 700 fish with about 400 SP pots and you can grind for around 1-2 hours... literally ridiculous. I was streaming and was almost dumbfounded about how immense the healing rate was. If they did remove WOE Pot Box, to make RO to how it used to be they would have to remove these ridiculous events that give OP items. It's only around for 2-3weeks, but within that time frame, a lot can happen. 
 

I think if they removed WOE Pots just remove all of other P2W items and just put them in gamble boxes, like the good old days. I hate getting duplicate crap costumes in my boxes... I would rather get some merc scrolls, buff scrolls, or some misc item I can use; rather than dead weight in my storage.

[bigcfromrbc]

No, it won't. As someone that has neither much zeny or disposable income silvervine is already getting too expensive.

 

At least if alchs were in I could farm my own supplies.

 

Ranked whites heal more.

Ranked slims heal more and weight much less.

Ranked blues are already worth making because of people using fish.

 

You know I'd be fine with the removal of WoE pots if we could get 50 blues for 5 silvervine and the cat continued to heal for 1000%.

 

^ This and people will use their zeny to buy ranked slims.   Silvervine will go down in price because of it.    

[Rathlord]

No, it won't. As someone that has neither much zeny or disposable income silvervine is already getting too expensive.

 

At least if alchs were in I could farm my own supplies.

 

Ranked whites heal more.

Ranked slims heal more and weight much less.

Ranked blues are already worth making because of people using fish.

 

You know I'd be fine with the removal of WoE pots if we could get 50 blues for 5 silvervine and the cat continued to heal for 1000%.

 

Ranked pots will only benefit the guilds that are already huge in any significant way. It's startling how little foresight the people in this thread have.

 

I mean if you guys are against removing them from pve, that's fine. I still think it's stupid as crap and your reasoning is all hilariously inaccurate, but I really don't care about that.

 

But anyone who thinks WoE pots need to stay available in WoE has been hitting the poring pipe too hard. It has an extremely negative impact on the meta that focuses the entire game on one class essentially, and it gives massive advantages to already-established guilds (including mine, for those wondering, no I am not in a tiny struggling guild, we're in an alde castle). WoE pots are toxic for WoE.

[toastbr0t]

No, it won't. As someone that has neither much zeny or disposable income silvervine is already getting too expensive.

 

At least if alchs were in I could farm my own supplies.

 

Ranked whites heal more.

Ranked slims heal more and weight much less.

Ranked blues are already worth making because of people using fish.

 

You know I'd be fine with the removal of WoE pots if we could get 50 blues for 5 silvervine and the cat continued to heal for 1000%.

people wont use fish after the event

[MyVictories]

Ranked pots will only benefit the guilds that are already huge in any significant way. It's startling how little foresight the people in this thread have.

 

I mean if you guys are against removing them from pve, that's fine. I still think it's stupid as crap and your reasoning is all hilariously inaccurate, but I really don't care about that.

 

But anyone who thinks WoE pots need to stay available in WoE has been hitting the poring pipe too hard. It has an extremely negative impact on the meta that focuses the entire game on one class essentially, and it gives massive advantages to already-established guilds (including mine, for those wondering, no I am not in a tiny struggling guild, we're in an alde castle). WoE pots are toxic for WoE.

^
This.

I don't see how new players will suffer from this at all when you have PVE events like the fresh fish buff happening every once in a while that make grinding far easier, and if they really need to grind fast they can always stock up on alchemist whites for a crunch weekend or something. WoE blues, which are a plague, would be replaced by a healthy blue herb and strawberry market. If the "new players suffering" argument still stands despite that, then just disable the pots in WoE so at least one significant end-game mode has much better balance to it, and it's never too late for that since we barely have all classes yet.

If your primary argument is that it's "too late", you're inherently presuming that the server isn't going to last long enough for this move to be a critical flash point, when the server is barely a few months old. On the other hand you think it's a self fixing problem because silvervine will one day be 1.5m per box, for which to happen the server would have to be at least one year old at the current inflation rate.  It doesn't make sense to play both sides of the timeline argument. If the server can really be expected to have such longevity and health, it can easily handle a major meta change like this as long as it's a positive one. It's the only way to drastically change gameplay overnight, making knights far less OP, and support classes far more important and integral to WoE, if not PVE as well. People will whine initially, but people whine about any change. At least this one will be good for character integrity and balance.

And if they had to be disabled, the easiest way would be to disable the items from working entirely, like the crimson weapon issue. With a decent heads up. So anyone intending to stock up on them will not be able to take advantage of cheaper pricing or an entire storage full of boxes. People had purchased stat buff items and crimson weapons too, and the miracle buffer made the former completely redundant in the cash shop and crimson weapons are worthless now. The decision still worked because it was smart and has had an overall positive impact as compared to having 6 different shop-only items for different stats.

Disable them in WoE first, observe how it opens the game up and makes it far more interesting and balanced. Then, contemplate disabling them in PVE as well. 

[Xellie]

^
This.

I don't see how new players will suffer from this at all when you have PVE events like the fresh fish buff happening every once in a while that make grinding far easier, and if they really need to grind fast they can always stock up on alchemist whites for a crunch weekend or something. WoE blues, which are a plague, would be replaced by a botted blue herb and strawberry market. If the "new players suffering" argument still stands despite that, then just disable the pots in WoE so at least one significant end-game mode has much better balance to it, and it's never too late for that since we barely have all classes yet.

 

I went ahead and fixed that for you. 

[MyVictories]

I went ahead and fixed that for you. 

 

 

Kiniro is disappointed!

Bots having control over economies is a different issue entirely though and besides the point. Even then, for every 10 botters making money from farming, if even 1 legit player can have easy herb farming money, you've already helped new players have a new source of earning, whilst making SP a non-infinite variable with some value to it.

[bigcfromrbc]

Starting out on RO is rough.   Having WoE pots makes it easier along with VIP and Manuals.     How do you expect new players to catch up?

[Xellie]

Kiniro is disappointed!

Bots having control over economies is a different issue entirely though and besides the point. Even then, for every 10 botters making money from farming, if even 1 legit player can have easy herb farming money, you've already helped new players have a new source of earning, whilst making SP a non-infinite variable with some value to it.

 

WoE blues won't compare with ranked blues, don't worry too much. The more that can be done to discourage a bot economy, the better imo. It hurts new players because they can't farm as efficiently as bots can, therefore they get lower prices than they should. 

 

You can't say "it's a different issue" when it's all intertwined. 

 

It's really too late for all of this. You can't just take the potions away now that they are an accepted, integral part of the econ. We all rushed on ahead and had an easy time and you want newer players to have a hard slog, with not many people looking for parties because we're all established and 99! 

[toastbr0t]

 

It's really too late for all of this. You can't just take the potions away now that they are an accepted, integral part of the econ. We all rushed on ahead and had an easy time and you want newer players to have a hard slog, with not many people looking for parties because we're all established and 99! 

I think this is one of the main problems

[ARTEMI5]

just skimmed thru this but let WP sell the 1000% fresh fish skellycat version for the cost of $10 each egg and skel-lion make grape juice give a lil bit more sp for $10. that way, the staff don't starve until we get responsible enough to take care of our forgotten and fallen pets 

[MyVictories]

Starting out on RO is rough.   Having WoE pots makes it easier along with VIP and Manuals.     How do you expect new players to catch up?

 

Starting out in any game, especially RPGs, is supposed to be harder by design. That's what creates the scaling difficulty graph over time. A level 60 immortal knight killing huge mobs in high difficulty dungeons, is ridiculous to begin with as the highest current XP route for new players, this is not what the game was made to be. If you disable a 5c cash shop item, you force that knight to party with priests, wizards, dancers, bards, alchemists become more important, DODGING becomes a thing again even if just marginally. There was already a system in place to address the difficulty scaling of RO, which was the original design of the game, when no WoE pots were needed whatsoever and it worked just fine.

 

 

It's really too late for all of this. You can't just take the potions away now that they are an accepted, integral part of the econ. We all rushed on ahead and had an easy time and you want newer players to have a hard slog, with not many people looking for parties because we're all established and 99! 

 

So just disable them from WoE. Don't tell me you wouldn't enjoy seeing the meta and game-play shift it would cause overnight. People would actually have to think. 

[Xellie]

It wouldn't shift. Pots aren't the reason the WoE meta is so crap. 

Edited by Xellie, 25 October 2017 - 09:29 AM.

[toastbr0t]

PvE meta would definitely shift and I personally welcome this

[Stephcake]

Starting out on RO is rough. Having WoE pots makes it easier along with VIP and Manuals. How do you expect new players to catch up?

How did they catch up in all the years before WoE pots existed?

[Xellie]

How did they catch up in all the years before WoE pots existed?

 

People had alts to level (and the population was larger) and therefore parties were more established. This conversation should have been had before everyone levelled alts. 

Edited by Xellie, 25 October 2017 - 09:44 AM.

[RealGarion]

How did they catch up in all the years before WoE pots existed?

Since when did anyone ever did cath up in Ro? Oo

 

Someone that is behind will never ever be able to catch up to someone that is already ahead, if both are equally active, you can close the gap but getting truly on equal level is useally only possible with a lot of groundshifting events happens (extrem luck on the new player, or extrem bad condition on the player ahead ... ... basicly when there is a "blue shell" event).

 

I am not fond of the Woe pots, but right now the damage is already done, removing them atm ...is more like a ...reverse blue shell ...,you hurt newer players more than etablished one , at least i have to admit that and i can assure you i wa one of the biggest screamers to instant remove them when i started out here.

[Stephcake]

People had alts to level (and the population was larger) and therefore parties were more established. This conversation should have been had before everyone levelled alts.

It was. And it was completely ignored by WP then as it is now.

[Xellie]

It was. And it was completely ignored by WP then as it is now.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Fleshgod]

Imo the renewal mechanics screw things more than woe pots, i really miss the good old experience of having a 12men party with mobers, a duet of bard and dancer  + wizz at juperos, majo, gd or any other good leveling map. Sum woe pots  + renewal mechs and this is why certain classes are useless / weak.