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Constructive Feedback on W.O.E Discussion Threads/V-Mod System


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#51 Bazzz

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 11:25 AM

Person A personally attacks person B.

 

Person B hits report button.

 

Post gets deleted.

 

Community can not un-see what person A posted after they have viewed it.

 

Person B never had a chance to defend them self because they would get a temp ban for "engaged in and baited drama"

 

I am sorry but it is not as simple as hitting the report button.

 

Ban hateful threads such as the Woe thread because we have proven that we can not handle it and the GM team has proved that they can not handle it either.

 

never actually happens like that though, the 2nd person normally responds or just ignores it and gets over it without reporting it or giving a -_-.

 

when the thread is created it is not breaking a rule, if people break one ban them simple as.


Edited by Bazzz, 26 October 2017 - 11:27 AM.

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#52 RealGarion

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 11:28 AM

Well it is what it is... lets hope at least the next thread stays civil until page 15+ for another epic cheesy-if-you-sing-along-you-loose-music-battle with ewol.


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#53 kisai

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 12:44 PM

I have always enjoyed reading the WoE thread. It's all in good fun until a small minority run out of relevant replies and resort to their stand-by of personal insults and call-outs meant to provoke and inflame. It's a pattern of behavior that doesn't seem to improve with age. Sadly they ruin it for the rest of us, as I think that element of the community shouldn't have an outlet. 


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#54 ArmoNz

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 02:49 PM

Moderation in 2017 lol


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#55 Namrok

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 03:39 PM

woe without drama and trashy woe-topics  is a dead woe 


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#56 RealGarion

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 03:24 AM

woe without drama and trashy woe-topics  is a dead woe 

 

nope... a woe without trashy woe topics is a woe nonetheless

 

a woe thread ,with trash talking however is a dead (and locked) woe thread.


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#57 Arkghyom

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 08:35 AM

If WoE seems to be a conspicuous radix malorum, then remove it from the game! 


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#58 Dukeares

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 09:27 AM

Thing that I don't like to see are

Closing the whole thread because of 2 or 3 poster who can't decide who have the bigger ball (That is stupid way to moderate a forum . )

Cinnamon's usualy help much in cleaning up a thread from spam and keeping it from derailing so a discussion can keep going smoothly.

To me still baning whole thread because of a few jck AS are a bad way to moderate since it's only alienating the community (killing the forums. ) Its like giving out a bad vibe to people "Why post anything at all? If a thread gona get lock up?? "

Moderating the Woe thread also involving not to try to get in the way of the discussion.

Help the Threads poster / Starter to make sure his or her discussion work out by removing or clean the thread from personal attack and are baiting post...

Drama are suppose to be in the adult section in the Tirade..

Edited by VModSoup, 27 October 2017 - 09:30 AM.
double post merge

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#59 Twistex

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 09:46 AM

Kids seem too soft these days if they cant engage in spirited competition and the drama that goes with it

If someone makes fun of you or says mean things. who cares? Its the internet lol. Stop being wussies

Racism/hate speech is different though. Thats just nasty
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#60 Vienna

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 09:57 AM

Kids seem too soft these days if they cant engage in spirited competition and the drama that goes with it

If someone makes fun of you or says mean things. who cares? Its the internet lol. Stop being wussies

Racism/hate speech is different though. Thats just nasty

 

Problem lies in when people get into crap flinging mode and start swearing and trying to drudge up personal attacks. "Your gfist is crap, A novice could live it" is acceptable, I'd think, but "I could gfist harder than you with my hode slapping your face" is a bit on the extreme side and brings up a whole range of rage invoking retorts that generally degrades into personal attacks.


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#61 CMAstra

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 10:29 AM

 

There is no way for the current V-Mods (who are players pulled from the IRO community) to be unbiased in considering what posts are acceptable, and which ones aren't.

 

 

It's not about just banning certain individuals that cause problems in a WOE discussion thread, the problem is having those same discussion threads moderated by players who come from that same community.

 

 

To address your initial concern, Nugeki - 

I understand this concern, and thank you for addressing it. It seems to me that my post about recruiting VMods was not clear enough regarding their actual role and what happens behind the scenes.

As with this crop of VMods and past VMods on the RO1 forums, their true forum and game identities are generally hidden from the public... as well as each other. If VMod A and VMod B are in rival guilds, neither of them would know it. During the vetting process, the staff looks through the history of their forum posting and game behavior. We generally choose individuals who have demonstrated the ability to remain fair in situations of escalated drama (note my use of "fair" and not "unbiased" - I agree in that true neutrality is nigh impossible for any human to achieve) - this is true with this crop of VMods, and I am glad for the work they have put in so far.

 

The VMods and staff speak with each other on a daily basis, and it is rare that a VMod makes a decision entirely alone. Most of the time we turn concerns over to each other for 2nd and 3rd opinions before coming to a decision - this way, many potential biases are neutralized. As for the fact that they are active players and may/may not currently be in WoE guilds, once again, we have judged them based on their actions and their characters, the way they interact on forums and in game. We think it's valuable to have current players be the VMods, as they have their "finger on the pulse" so to speak, and can offer helpful suggestions to the staff that we may have overlooked.

 

As always, if you have any complaints about any VMod action, feel free to either add me into the PM with the VMod or PM me privately.

 

As for the topic of WoE threads -

 

The heated nature of WoE threads has not gone unnoticed by the staff. While we appreciate the amount of passion players have for this aspect of the game and understand that competition comes with a fair amount of brash behavior, there is a line to be drawn on official public forums. We'd love to continue to have our players discuss WoE in a civil manner, but if WoE threads continue to devolve into nothing more than pub brawls, we will have to remove them from the forums for a time.

 

We will give 2 weeks. During this time, we will be moderating content more heavily.
Mild off-topic comments, insults, and such will be removed, but continuous harassment and abusive arguing will come with greater consequences, such as mod queue or temporary ban.

If  this goes well and the WoE threads can remain relatively civil for that long, we will let them stay on the forums.

If they continue to go sour despite this, they will be removed.

 

For a refresher on the forum rules, please click here: https://forums.warpp...conduct-update/

 

Thank you everybody, let's be excellent to each other.


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#62 Namrok

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 10:41 AM

We will give 2 weeks.

 

 

 just make a nsfw board withoud moderators, and rules, for ppl who wanna splush some rage after woe. 

 its normal for company forum, it was on kro, ruro and some other official servers, why not ^^

 

 but its must be on pwd word like "Omissa spe qui huc intrasti" 

  :heh:  :heh:


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#63 Vienna

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 10:44 AM

 just make a nsfw board withoud moderators, and rules, for ppl who wanna splush some rage after woe. 

 its normal for company forum, it was on kro, ruro and some other official servers, why not ^^

 

 but its must be on pwd word like "Omissa spe qui huc intrasti" 

  :heh:  :heh:

 

 

Their games are rated PG-13 for the most part, so their forums need to hold a similar standard.


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#64 EwoI

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 11:15 AM

We generally choose individuals who have demonstrated the ability to remain fair in situations of escalated drama (note my use of "fair" and not "unbiased" - I agree in that true neutrality is nigh impossible for any human to achieve) - this is true with this crop of VMods, and I am glad for the work they have put in so far.

 

What a load of nonsense. You choose players from WoE guilds to moderate the forums. I know the identities of two of your vmods. Both are in the let's just say top 5 WoE guilds on the server. I'm not allowed to reveal their actual identity and I think if I did players would be extremely unhappy.

 

But what I can do is question why one of your vmods is upvoting posts in a WoE thread?

 

You can spin all the PR you want. You could not have picked more biased mods than the ones you did.

 

uvpfeh.png


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#65 Twistex

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 11:58 AM

What a load of nonsense. You choose players from WoE guilds to moderate the forums. I know the identities of two of your vmods. Both are in the let's just say top 5 WoE guilds on the server. I'm not allowed to reveal their actual identity and I think if I did players would be extremely unhappy.

But what I can do is question why one of your vmods is upvoting posts in a WoE thread?

You can spin all the PR you want. You could not have picked more biased mods than the ones you did.

uvpfeh.png


Sounds like they need people like me who just kill things and loot items. People who dont care about WoE should moderate it. That way no favorites are played
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#66 Cyncienta

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:22 PM

I'm a no WOE player.. no time (no even thinking about all the effort that requires doing WoE)... and I'd never apply for VMod, working for free for free? XD well I love WoE (but it's imposs for me to play decent), and still not interested to help a server in the actual situation. Most of us no WoE players (I believe) won't even read the forum, unless they need help for something.

 

I read WoE thread sometimes just to laugh at drama x)

 

And I think it's ok if VMod is from WoE guild or if it's not I'm ok with it, too. I'd like to think ppl is good no matter what guild they come from.

And u all care too much about what's mod is gonna mod over others... like if deleting post from one "enemy" guild only would change the result of WoE LOL. I don't understand very well, why ppl care that much about this.. if they want their WoE thread that much and they know the limits to keep the thread open.. then it's up to u all.

 

Anw CM had to choose the best option from the applicants, so I guess that is good.


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#67 VModSoup

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:36 PM

 

 

But what I can do is question why one of your vmods is upvoting posts in a WoE thread?

 

 

 

 

I misclicked it and there's no way to un-up-vote a post.


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#68 CMAstra

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:44 PM

What a load of nonsense. You choose players from WoE guilds to moderate the forums. I know the identities of two of your vmods. Both are in the let's just say top 5 WoE guilds on the server. I'm not allowed to reveal their actual identity and I think if I did players would be extremely unhappy.

 

But what I can do is question why one of your vmods is upvoting posts in a WoE thread?

 

You can spin all the PR you want. You could not have picked more biased mods than the ones you did.

 

uvpfeh.png

 

 

 

 

Hello Ewol,
 
I am sorry you feel that way. As you noted, exposing the identities of our volunteers is extremely prohibited and will result in suspension from the service. Just because a person is a member of a particular guild does not make them biased against you. When the VMods see a problem post, they discuss it with all mods online, including those who have no stake in the ongoings of RE:START and determine a course of action. I am proud of this group of VMods as we have seen where they have acknowledged that they may not be able to fairly judge a particular post due to friendship and approach the others to make a decision so that they will not unfairly handle a case. As for the upvote - I spoke to VModSoup about it and was informed that it was a misclick. Unfortunately, the system does not allow for removal of upvotes, accidental or intentional, and stray ups happen all the time. Thank you for your feedback.

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#69 Shomaye

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:52 PM

How could the Vmod identities possibly be known if they didn't tell people they were Vmods?


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#70 Xellie

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 01:10 PM

Astra you seem to misunderstand a lot of the concerns people have with the vmod system. Them being anonymous simply breeds toxicity in the community as everyone is fingerpointing at the other side when things don't go their way. Everyone assumes the mod is an "enemy" not a friend. 
 
Having been accused of being a mod several times with this system existing, I can tell you it's not fun, but you don't think about those players do you? You don't think about how the community assumes the identity of the moderators and makes the game unpleasant for them. For an example see when a specific group of players were moderated recently and responded by having their guildmembers post attacks on the person they assumed did it. I constantly get attacked over being "GM's favourite" etc etc etc, and part of that is due to the mod system.
 
I have also had vmods in guild before and that caused a lot of terrible, terrible stress within our community to the point that I told my entire guild NOT to apply this time around. 
 
You can't keep the identities secret. Is it a user's fault if the mod is doing a terrible job hiding their real identity? No. It's the mod's fault. Their identities are exposed on mediums over which you have no control, so the whole threat of "exposing" them leading to suspension is pretty moot. you don't police discord, or skype, or even guildchat. 
 
Having named mods would allow users to build up trust with one or two particular mods, they're here to help, right? They're not the enemy (as far as I understand it), so I don't understand the worry about privacy. Yes some people won't agree with the choices, but they don't now. With an open system, users would be able to relate to at least one mod (assuming they're from "all sides" like you claim.). 
 
 
As far as the WoE threads go. Every week at least one banned user signs up an account to troll with. Every week things devolve and have become more and more threatening with each passing week. With the behaviours demonstrated over the rest of the forum as well I'm of the opinion that the WoE threads have had their chance. 
 
The problem with reactive moderation is that it only takes one or two posts crossing the line to harm a user, and if that user sees the posts before they are removed then the trolling intent is met. They just want the user to see their stuff. They don't care if it's removed afterward, it's just the intent. The threads stray away from talking about WoE and turn into character assassination against one or two particular users.. 
 
WoE threads belong on places like iROwiki, NOT the official forums where we come to read patch notes and discuss improvements for the game. Like many others I enjoy some of the WoE thread banter, but unfortunately the forum userbase as a whole is proving too toxic to handle such threads maturely. 
 

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#71 Namrok

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 01:59 PM

well.. if all woe-drama is merge to irowiki is good, but if all start discuss on one forum XD

 

 

wanna more woe drama  :rice:


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#72 Gloe

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 02:07 PM

Damn. Y'all children. It's only game, why u have to be mad?


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#73 CMAstra

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 02:47 PM

All right, since the staff and myself have come to an agreement on handling the WoE threads going forward, I will be closing this topic.

 

Please refer to this post regarding future WoE threads:

https://forums.warpp...ussion-threads/

 

If you have any feedback or concerns for me about this, please feel free to PM me.

Thanks!


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