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Bots, and where to find them.


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#101 xepherian

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 11:17 AM

3 Discord channels - empty (~50 messages in general per day from 3-4 same ppl)

 

you are obviously not a part of the irowiki discord party


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#102 iSeenUB4

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 12:35 PM

So what came out of the meeting Campitor? What are the anti-botting measures proposed by studios?


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#103 VModPassionFruit

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 12:43 PM



So what came out of the meeting Campitor? What are the anti-botting measures proposed by studios?

It's a little bit early for that (see here). Please be patient, the information will come  :p_smile:


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#104 ClickClickClick

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 05:34 PM

1. Removing the benefit of botting.

 
The quickest return on efforts bots can get is consumables and crafting items for other consumables. Since these are always in demand they tend to sell well to the player economy. Unfortunately this has also always historically been the best route for new users to earn a little zeny to get started.
Were going to turn many of these items into NPC sold. To start with WSS, Stems, Strawberries, Blue Herbs. With plans to expand later into other items should the tests go will. They will be sold for near market value of these items
 
At the same time were going to be working on providing new users with quests to get good starter consumables so that they can fund their adventuring habits.

 

 

 

I...you...what... no! 

 

 

A little late to the party, but this is what I've been saying all along.

While I understand people have an aversion to change, not all change is bad, so before condemning something please, look at the situation realistically.

The fact is, is that while all players rely upon such consumables, there are very very few of them, if any at all, that take time out of their day to farm said items. So, again, realistically, the choice at hand becomes to either encourage zeny farmers and allow inflation to continue to build, or sell the items in an NPC, where the price can not only be controlled, but the zeny is flat out removed from the market, which does two important things.

1. It combats inflation, driving prices down, making it so the zeny you own is worth more.

2. Competes with the gold farmers' ability to generate zeny, and if the gold farmers can't generate zeny, they don't have a product to sell. No product, no money to to make, no money to make, no reason to continue to farm gold. It's really simple logic, gold farmers do so to make money, and if a company can't make a profit they go out of business.

This is a much needed change to the dynamic of the economy, I for one am standing by it, and I would encourage others to do the same.


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#105 Xellie

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 05:42 PM

Bots generate zeny from npc loot tho - this will just make their zeny sales more valuable.

 

You realize this is basically paramarket right?


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#106 ClickClickClick

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 05:45 PM

Bots generate zeny from npc loot tho - this will just make their zeny sales more valuable.

 

You realize this is basically paramarket right?

 

Bots generate more of their money from the sales of consumables, not selling crap to an NPC, and if their zeny sales are more valuable, people will be less likely to spend the money on it, thus working in the legitimate player's favor.

 

Don't see the problem, and never really understood the problem with the paramarket, other than the daily quest currencies being sold off.


Edited by ClickClickClick, 01 December 2017 - 05:46 PM.

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#107 Xellie

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 05:46 PM

If I've learned one thing

 

it's don't underestimate how much people are willing to RMT. It's honestly quite ridiculous. 


Edited by Xellie, 01 December 2017 - 05:47 PM.

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#108 iSeenUB4

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 07:02 PM

No solution given from kRO about bots, no game shields being planned... What now?


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#109 yoyoninetail

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 09:01 PM

Bots generate more of their money from the sales of consumables, not selling crap to an NPC, and if their zeny sales are more valuable, people will be less likely to spend the money on it, thus working in the legitimate player's favor.

Don't see the problem, and never really understood the problem with the paramarket, other than the daily quest currencies being sold off.


That makes zero sense.
Botters will make more money *per item* if they can vend the much needed supplies like WSS/Hearts/Herbs etc, yes.
However they will make more money over time *in general* if they can just sell everything to an Npc.
No more time wasted logging onto a vending char, opening shop, checking the market value and waiting for sells. Just *instant* money generation through NPC.
The only way this wouldnt happen is if there was only 1 NPC in pron, say, which let you sell the supplies for more than any other NPC and GMs would ban any bot trying to walk to the Npc and sell their loot. However since you cant really tell the difference between real players buying or bots selling stuff this wont happen.

So really what the npc does is increase the amount of zeny being generated through npc loot from bots.
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#110 ClickClickClick

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 09:57 PM

That makes zero sense.
Botters will make more money *per item* if they can vend the much needed supplies like WSS/Hearts/Herbs etc, yes.
However they will make more money over time *in general* if they can just sell everything to an Npc.
No more time wasted logging onto a vending char, opening shop, checking the market value and waiting for sells. Just *instant* money generation through NPC.
The only way this wouldnt happen is if there was only 1 NPC in pron, say, which let you sell the supplies for more than any other NPC and GMs would ban any bot trying to walk to the Npc and sell their loot. However since you cant really tell the difference between real players buying or bots selling stuff this wont happen.

So really what the npc does is increase the amount of zeny being generated through npc loot from bots.

 

Yeah, small bit of a problem with yer logic there, man.

 

They can "just sell everything to an npc." there's literally nothing stopping them from doing so, and if they did make more that way, why would they even bother to farm/vend consumables like WSS and Strawberries? What, you think they're doing it out of the kindness in their hearts? "Oh dear, looks like people don't have access to the things they need, let's toss our profits out the window in order to be convienant!"

 

Really?

 

What yer real issue is, is that you think any part of the process is done by hand. They have bots to farm items, bots to vend, even bots to make new accounts when a previous one gets banned. In fact, the only thing that does keep their numbers in check, is the processing power of their computer(s), limiting the number of botting programs they can run.


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#111 Varcieh

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 11:24 PM

Yeah, small bit of a problem with yer logic there, man.

They can "just sell everything to an npc." there's literally nothing stopping them from doing so, and if they did make more that way, why would they even bother to farm/vend consumables like WSS and Strawberries? What, you think they're doing it out of the kindness in their hearts? "Oh dear, looks like people don't have access to the things they need, let's toss our profits out the window in order to be convienant!"

Really?

What yer real issue is, is that you think any part of the process is done by hand. They have bots to farm items, bots to vend, even bots to make new accounts when a previous one gets banned. In fact, the only thing that does keep their numbers in check, is the processing power of their computer(s), limiting the number of botting programs they can run.


1) Because those items will sell for significantly more zeny @ npc than before, if it gets implemented. Cant do that now.

2) Why do they farm WSS? Because they sell. Always. Same for Elu/Ori, but those are harder to farm compared to Wss/Herbs.

3) Obviously at the mass botters everything is run by automation, even vends, but they still need to wait for the sell.
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#112 ClickClickClick

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 11:36 PM

1) Because those items will sell for significantly more zeny @ npc than before, if it gets implemented. Cant do that now.

2) Why do they farm WSS? Because they sell. Always. Same for Elu/Ori, but those are harder to farm compared to Wss/Herbs.

3) Obviously at the mass botters everything is run by automation, even vends, but they still need to wait for the sell.

 

1. Nope, using the paramarket's system, they can manipulate the price items are sold for while leaving their base price alone. I.E. Strawberries selling for 5k while every npc, everywhere, still buys them at.. Oh hell, never npc'd a strawberry.. 30z?

 

2. Yeah, my point exactly, had you read the post, they sell well.. to players.

 

3. Yerp, completely ignoring the point to argue against change, but I'll connect the dots for you, yeah? If things didn't sell quickly enough, or well enough, to make a profit, gold farmers wouldn't vend them. Therefore, they're still making a bigger profit off vending said items than if they just npc'd them. Common sense, it's a thing.


Edited by ClickClickClick, 02 December 2017 - 12:08 AM.

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#113 UlrichStern

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 04:37 AM

If you want a zeny sink, put in an NPC every 2 months with a donation goal of 5b total or so (depending on what you think is reachable / amount may vary and adjust to current total zeny of the server) that has to be met within a week, where you can type the amount of zeny you want to donate in a text box, minimum donation amount 1,000z, and if the donation goal is reached there will be a week of double exp / tripple exp / etc. / whatever else you can come up with.

This will drain zeny from all players and will benefit all players, especially new ones.

 

 

1. will not help at all with the bot situation unless you completely remove the value of those items and have them be sold for 10z each.

Do not add those items to NPC shops please, don't!

please don't let us forget this


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#114 thiagomestres

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 05:55 AM

I hope the staff won't be naive to think that every feedback comes from an honest player. Not pointing fingers tho, but it would be delusional to think that everyone here isn't a bot user.

 

Bots generate zeny from npc loot tho - this will just make their zeny sales more valuable.

 

You realize this is basically paramarket right?

Well, correct me if i'm wrong, but all they have to do is make the selling price equal to 0z, so the bots won't profit from selling these items to the NPCs.

 


Edited by thiagomestres, 02 December 2017 - 06:02 AM.

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#115 Xellie

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 06:34 AM

I hope the staff won't be naive to think that every feedback comes from an honest player. Not pointing fingers tho, but it would be delusional to think that everyone here isn't a bot user.

 

Well, correct me if i'm wrong, but all they have to do is make the selling price equal to 0z, so the bots won't profit from selling these items to the NPCs.

 

Then they'll just farm other items to npc.... And if they make all npc items 0z then we'd never gain any zeny into the economy and rip newbies. 


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#116 thiagomestres

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:12 AM

Then they'll just farm other items to npc.... 

 

Obviously, the npc wouldn't solve the problem entirely, but at least it would make it a bit better, since the bots would lose  their most reliable source of outcome.

 

 

 

 And if they make all npc items 0z then we'd never gain any zeny into the economy and rip newbies.

The npc the staff proposed isn't going to sell every single item, just the ones that are more profitable for bots. So there would be other ways for us to make a little bit of money.

 

Those items are barely making any money for newbies anyway, since their maps are so full of bots that is almost impossible for honest players to farm on them. After all, there are more bots than monsters in these maps.

 

I, for one, was never able to make a lot of profit out of those items because of the bots, but i'm doing just fine with the money i have.


Edited by thiagomestres, 02 December 2017 - 07:40 AM.

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#117 SaintMulla1

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 01:46 PM

 

Seeing as how the MvPing scene is already pretty dead (same 2-3 people @ different times of the day), wouldn't taking the Rideword Hat out of the cash shop motivate at least a FEW people to stop sitting in town and form groups to actually try and compete at MvPs or do you guys really just prefer when people toss their cash at the game with their ~*cute*~ hats to sit in town with nothing to do? 
 
Adding this crap to the cash shop just makes it so much less rewarding for people that actually do go out of their way to kill MvPs..
 
I mean, I doubt it would change much with the current state of the game but come on, give people some motivation to actually do something in the game. Not everything needs to be in the cash shop or purchasable through silvervines/KP. -_-'s lame.
 
 
HELLLOOooOOOOo PLS RESPOND
 
 

 

 

you know big guilds can monopolize mvps right ? lol


Edited by VModCinnamon, 02 December 2017 - 02:07 PM.
Mod Edit: Removed Red/Bold font, Red/Bold is for moderation.

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#118 KKeong

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 11:46 PM

1. I guess that no have client developer on warpportal, if have that will be got anticheat plugin, extreme electronic(roextreme.com/) got cheat defender, warrportal can buy CD from extreme electronic.This CD have success block much bot.

 

2. I know RMT is important  on MMO, If block by gm, it will become useless on real world society, this mmorpg will be ban on free market.

 

3. If success block bot, that will be got deep learning use as bot, but one pc only play one deep learning AI, because it need high usage cpu or gpu, i think that can be ok, server will be got very less botting. this AI already release on market : https://www.geforce.com/gtx-g-assist

 

btw, better buy CD for reduce upgrade GM Team Cost.

 


Edited by KKeong, 03 December 2017 - 01:20 AM.

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#119 EwoI

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 01:14 AM

I actually like being able to buy supplies from an NPC if the prices aren't ridiculous . People shouldn't feel like they need to bot just to be able to PvE/WoE effectively.


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#120 Panteperu

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 07:07 AM

Well, the GMs should stop making events where you need to hunt for very low chance item drops. Like star dust, 2% drop.

 

It just help the botters to make more zenny, because a regular player would spend at least 3-4 resets for his amistr bag to get the desired enchant, and getting 100 star dust would take around 24 hours of hunting nonstop. Using 200 silvervines is also stupid, because if you sell 1 silvervine box would be enough to buy 100 star dust from botters. So the obvious choose is people just buy botted items.

 

Just like what happened with the red bandana and peco peco wings (0.04% on a heavly botted map with no other valuable drop). These kind of events just make the botters happy. 


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#121 Cyncienta

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 08:29 AM

Well, the GMs should stop making events where you need to hunt for very low chance item drops. Like star dust, 2% drop.

It just help the botters to make more zenny, because a regular player would spend at least 3-4 resets for his amistr bag to get the desired enchant, and getting 100 star dust would take around 24 hours of hunting nonstop. Using 200 silvervines is also stupid, because if you sell 1 silvervine box would be enough to buy 100 star dust from botters. So the obvious choose is people just buy botted items.

Just like what happened with the red bandana and peco peco wings (0.04% on a heavly botted map with no other valuable drop). These kind of events just make the botters happy.


Those events are necessary and ok, what's not ok is buying from RMT and by that supporting botters and killing our own server.

And what definetely is not ok is the inefecient work done by WP, now they have an extra task, monitoring WOE for botters in empty castles, I can't tell for what's done in crowded castles, bc I only WoE with a lone ranger.

Cheers.
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#122 iamSMOKIE

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 12:18 PM

The only real solution is to hire a REAL Bot hunting team. There is a few maps where you could ban hundreds of bots if someone had time


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#123 Panteperu

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 02:00 PM

nvm... 


Edited by Panteperu, 03 December 2017 - 02:04 PM.

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#124 Coderie

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 03:50 AM

The bot situation seems a lot better lately, especially on Toy Factory, Porticellio and Bathory.  Thanks for your efforts. :)


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#125 Nayru123

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:29 AM

you know big guilds can monopolize mvps right ? lol


You know there are only 3 decent MvP parties on the server and even mass parties of the big guilds lose to them 90% of the time.
There is bearome for the „knight mvps“, SNL crew (evotec, nelf, Oakley, Synapsse) and us (24/7). Rest can‘t be considered competition (except Maya Jenner on Drake).
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