325 replies to this topic

[Zayaan]

Kunai Explosion cooldown reduction would be cool on the Kagerou/Oborou hat. As it is that skill is pretty much garbage, but could become useful if the cooldown were to be removed.

[Zayaan]

Haven't had an opportunity to actually read through the entire thread, but I noticed there's no love for TK Kids. If proposals are being heard, why not a Taekwon Kid hat to help bolster their usability and fun factor? Their kicks really need some much needed boosting.

 

Personally, I love playing TK Kid but I lose a ton of motivation in doing it for long (all I do is farm ranker points every 4 or 5 months when I'm bored) because of restrictions (no weapon, for example) and a lack of a future of any kind. Even mass stacking some of the best gear this game has to offer results in poor damage output.

 

Further, the infinite combo that a ranked TK Kid has available to it is a really underappreciated and fun element to the class. I honestly think a ton of people would get a kick out of it, but little care to try because there's really nothing there to make them want to. Making the class funner to make the ranking system competitive would be awesome, too.

 

They have the foundations to be really fun to use--but they have never been practical for anything other than kicking Mi Gaos or making characters do flips with kick combos in PVP. But at least being able to kill a few mid-level MVPs or finish some of the newer instances would be great entertainment. They don't need to be the best by any means--just more usable.

 

It also doesn't help that they really have no future to look forward to aside from the Taekwon Shadow Set gears. Not having a level expansion is horrible, but that's a different discussion.

 

Quoting for new page because who  reads previous pages!

[Nirvanna21]

I do think they could use a hat for TKM, but honestly figured that it would be best waiting for their next update before doing anything to them.

 

I was gonna get the SL hat and reduce it's level to 99, but aside from that it never really bothered me about TKM. However if you have a proposal then by all means, I could include one.

[Ashuckel]

Kunai Explosion cooldown reduction would be cool on the Kagerou/Oborou hat. As it is that skill is pretty much garbage, but could become useful if the cooldown were to be removed.

If something like what i suggested goes through it essentially cuts the cooldown of it, as it would become then reliant on Throw Kunai Delay. (-aspd for kinda obvious reasons, specially throw shuriken being entirelly aspd based)

Spoiler

Name TBD K/O hat[1]

Reduces the cooldown of Cross Slash by 4 seconds. When using Cross Slash adds a 50% chance to autocast Soul Cutter.

When +7 or higher:

When Throw Shuriken lv10 is learned, autocasts Swirling Petal when using Throw Shuriken, ASPD -20.

When Dagger Throwing Practice lv10 is learned, autocasts Kunai Explosion when using Throw Kunai, ASPD -10.

When dealing magical damage, 3% chance to autocast Explosive Dragon, Lightning Jolt, First Wind and Snowflake Draft at lv1. Uses higher lvl if a higher lvl is known.

When +9 or higher:

When using Ninja Aura lv5, gives 5% atk/matk/ranged%/aspd%/aftercast delay/cast time reduction for 90s.

[Zayaan]

I do think they could use a hat for TKM, but honestly figured that it would be best waiting for their next update before doing anything to them.

 

I was gonna get the SL hat and reduce it's level to 99, but aside from that it never really bothered me about TKM. However if you have a proposal then by all means, I could include one.

 

Taekwon Ranker =/= Taekwon Master. Class progression is a dead end for Rankers, once they job change they lose their ranking status.

[Nirvanna21]

Taekwon Ranker =/= Taekwon Master. Class progression is a dead end for Rankers, once they job change they lose their ranking status.

 

Honestly my knowledge about TKM is next to nothing, I only know a little about SL since I made one a while back for Kaahi etc :U

[Ashuckel]

it is also possible that with the new class, how some of the previosu skills work changes, and this could(or not) render some of the hat features useless

[Nirvanna21]

it is also possible that with the new class, how some of the previosu skills work changes, and this could(or not) render some of the hat features useless

 

That would be my biggest concern.

[Nirvanna21]

Double posting for importance.

 

I want this all prepared by next maint. Kunny has offered to draw the art, but we need concepts. We have 2 hats 100% concept down, but need to make a decision for the Doram, and IF a TKM hat were to be made we would need something for that as well. Existing hats are mostly Touhou Themed, but we can move away from that to a degree but yeah.

 

Lunar Bunny Band (Rebel) - Based on Touhou's Reisen

??? Pinwheel (Ninja) - Based on a pinwheel, will have four core elemental symbols on each of it's edges.

Human Ear Beret or Pom Pom Headband - Campitor's and Fuyu's suggestions

??? - Possibly TKM headgear.

 

I am pretty happy with most of the suggestions, and I think making both forms of ninja play style available to the ninja hat would be nice. I am still concerned with SC and RG hats the most, because they both have a bit of back and fourth with concepts, I would really like some focus put towards these two.

[ChakriGuard]

Moon slasher is alright I guess. Although I still prefer it to be buffing Grand cross or Ray of Genesis. I've never seen two RGs leveling together to make a usage of Banding and RoG since 2012.

[Nirvanna21]

Moon slasher is alright I guess. Although I still prefer it to be buffing Grand cross or Ray of Genesis. I've never seen two RGs leveling together to make a usage of Banding and RoG since 2012.

 

In your opinion, what would be the best way to buff Grand Cross. I am concerned about RoG simply because as much a nice thought it would be to see 2 of them level together, it doesn't change the fact that the game as greatly become a solo endeavor. It's sad but it's true, so at the very least I would rather it focus to help those players.

 

Remember, if all goes well you will be able to obtain these headgears from a quest that is accessed as soon as you hit level 99 of the respective base class it is used for. It won't be RNG based, so think of it from the perspective of a new player. THey just started this class and finally hit third class, and want a nice means to level to at least 150.

[Jerbear]

I have no idea the current direction of next TKMs (Star Emperors/Gladiators/Grandmaasters/Moonmen/Whatevers), but considering that TK Kids rely exclusively on the following skills:

 

 Counter Kick

 Tornado Kick

 Flying Kick

 Roundhouse

 Heel Drop

 

They should only be boosted while a Taekwon Kid--not Taekwon Master. This way, even with changes in the future (unless Star Emperors can benefit from ranking as a whole, which TKMs do not), Taekwon Kids still receive a benefit to remaining level 99 Taekwon Kids and it doesn't further boost nor get messed up by whatever their next class brings to the table.

 

I don't have time for a couple of days to really flesh out a proposal, but I'll put something together soon. In the meantime, here's a few quick points/ideas for them:

 

For sure the TK Kids are going to need some massive boosts through the hat as most of these skills are their only viable killing power--and they're not that strong at all. For example, their only AoE is Tornado Kick, and this can only be used after the Tornado Stance activates at a % chance while meleeing. This hinders their ability to freely AoE things that they want. Additionally, they're incredibly weak with the inability to equip a weapon of any kind. +ATK will be a requirement in the hat. Flat boosts to the kicks will be a requirement in the hat. Those are at the very minimum. I have no idea if it would be possible to utilize Tornado Kick outside of the stance activation (like how Flying Kick can be used at will), but this would immediately go a long way into helping them. If not, an option could be Magnum Break 10 naturally in the hat since that can be used with Mild Wind to change its elemental property--maybe buff up the damage from Magnum, too.

 

Ranked TK Kids have some cool benefits which can be seen here. Benefits include triple HP/SP, all kicks unlocked for the Taekwon Kid, and they can use the above kicks infinitely in a chain once a stance activates [Tornado Stance activates: You can then use Tornado Kick, follow it by another kick that is not the previous kick, follow it by another kick that is not the previous kick, etc.]; however, doing an added 300% ATK kick on top of your normal melee damage (weaponless--keep this in mind) is still so lackluster that they can't do anything but hunt really low level monsters. At least elevating them in some way to promote healthier damage or an opportunity to be tankier would go a long way in allowing them to reasonably complete some instances.

 

Again, just some quick ideas and points of conversation. The foundations are there to have some really great, niche fun with them, but they certainly need more help.

[Nirvanna21]

I have no idea the current direction of next TKMs (Star Emperors/Gladiators/Grandmaasters/Moonmen/Whatevers), but considering that TK Kids rely exclusively on the following skills:

 

 Counter Kick

 Tornado Kick

 Flying Kick

 Roundhouse

 Heel Drop

 

They should only be boosted while a Taekwon Kid--not Taekwon Master. This way, even with changes in the future (unless Star Emperors can benefit from ranking as a whole, which TKMs do not), Taekwon Kids still receive a benefit to remaining level 99 Taekwon Kids and it doesn't further boost nor get messed up by whatever their next class brings to the table.

 

I don't have time for a couple of days to really flesh out a proposal, but I'll put something together soon. In the meantime, here's a few quick points/ideas for them:

 

For sure the TK Kids are going to need some massive boosts through the hat as most of these skills are their only viable killing power--and they're not that strong at all. For example, their only AoE is Tornado Kick, and this can only be used after the Tornado Stance activates at a % chance while meleeing. This hinders their ability to freely AoE things that they want. Additionally, they're incredibly weak with the inability to equip a weapon of any kind. +ATK will be a requirement in the hat. Flat boosts to the kicks will be a requirement in the hat. Those are at the very minimum. I have no idea if it would be possible to utilize Tornado Kick outside of the stance activation (like how Flying Kick can be used at will), but this would immediately go a long way into helping them. If not, an option could be Magnum Break 10 naturally in the hat since that can be used with Mild Wind to change its elemental property--maybe buff up the damage from Magnum, too.

 

Ranked TK Kids have some cool benefits which can be seen here. Benefits include triple HP/SP, all kicks unlocked for the Taekwon Kid, and they can use the above kicks infinitely in a chain once a stance activates [Tornado Stance activates: You can then use Tornado Kick, follow it by another kick that is not the previous kick, follow it by another kick that is not the previous kick, etc.]; however, doing an added 300% ATK kick on top of your normal melee damage (weaponless--keep this in mind) is still so lackluster that they can't do anything but hunt really low level monsters. At least elevating them in some way to promote healthier damage or an opportunity to be tankier would go a long way in allowing them to reasonably complete some instances.

 

Again, just some quick ideas and points of conversation. The foundations are there to have some really great, niche fun with them, but they certainly need more help.

 

So something as simple as...

 

Name TBD (Taekwon ONLY)

Max HP + 3000

Max SP + 300

Atk + 20 per upgrade level of the item to a maximum upgrade level of 8.

Aspd + 3
If upgrade level is +9 or higher,
Increases the damage of ^0000FFCounter Kick^000000, ^0000FFFlying Kick^000000, ^0000FFHeel Drop^000000, ^0000FFRoundhouse^000000 and ^0000FFTornado Kick^000000 by 100%.

Edited by Nirvanna21, 11 December 2017 - 03:38 PM.

[fuyukikun]

For expanded class with level max 99, i suggest the hat is available starting from level 70 or earlier (most changed to second job at base 55)

[Nirvanna21]

For expanded class with level max 99, i suggest the hat is available starting from level 70 or earlier (most changed to second job at base 55)

 

Yeah, 70 for Taekwon Kid and Soul Linker, 100 for the others since they are fully supported to go max level now.

[Jerbear]

So something as simple as...

 

Name TBD (Taekwon ONLY)

Max HP + 3000

Max SP + 300

Atk + 20 per upgrade level of the item to a maximum upgrade level of 8.

Aspd + 3
If upgrade level is +9 or higher,
Increases the damage of ^0000FFCounter Kick^000000, ^0000FFFlying Kick^000000, ^0000FFHeel Drop^000000, ^0000FFRoundhouse^000000 and ^0000FFTornado Kick^000000 by 100%.

 

That honestly looks fine, I'd say.

 

Not sure if this can be implemented properly, but you could even go further and do something like +30 ATK per active kicking stance. It's usually recommended to have only one of your stances active at any given time, which will then go into comboing your other kicks. This is so there's not as much 'thinking' when it comes to what kick you're opening with. You always open with your preferred kick whenever a stance activates, allowing you to get into your groove easily. More ATK per active stance would help promote knowing your opening based on what stance activates to then go into your combo. It would allow for people who want more ATK to have a more random opening kick (more complexity), but those who want to keep it simpler still get a small boost. At the very least, it would promote learning more complex play (honestly, just paying more attention) in exchange for some sweet, much needed ATK.

 

In a day or two, I'll see if I can come up with a nice name and a neat-o concept art.

 

Also it should be noted that all kicks have a global aftercast delay, so a little -% cast delay would be nice, actually.

Edited by Jerbear, 11 December 2017 - 04:47 PM.

[mildcontempt]

Given the kicking theme, might I suggest a fine boot:

 

[Nirvanna21]

That honestly looks fine, I'd say.

 

Not sure if this can be implemented properly, but you could even go further and do something like +30 ATK per active kicking stance. It's usually recommended to have only one of your stances active at any given time, which will then go into comboing your other kicks. This is so there's not as much 'thinking' when it comes to what kick you're opening with. You always open with your preferred kick whenever a stance activates, allowing you to get into your groove easily. More ATK per active stance would help promote knowing your opening based on what stance activates to then go into your combo. It would allow for people who want more ATK to have a more random opening kick (more complexity), but those who want to keep it simpler still get a small boost. At the very least, it would promote learning more complex play (honestly, just paying more attention) in exchange for some sweet, much needed ATK.

 

In a day or two, I'll see if I can come up with a nice name and a neat-o concept art.

 

Also it should be noted that all kicks have a global aftercast delay, so a little -% cast delay would be nice, actually.

 

I will look into how the skills work to best affect this hat, I could remove the ASPD and put in some cast delay instead. Drop a concept art in if you would like, I am currently gonna have Kunny draw up some basic ones that have been proposed. But Kunny loves drawing hats so if others are proposed we could have something drawn up (so long as he doesn't suffer burnout :U).

[Zayaan]

I would just throw Rankers a bone and make it like, 500% or 1000% damage on kicks and -100% after cast delay. Even with all that, they'd still be underpowered!

[Ashuckel]

thats why i suggested to offer a flat hp/sp increase, instead of a percentage, the flat would get further increased by the ranked +100% boost. Idk if it's possible for them to code that kind of stuff honestly.

[Jerbear]

He's not wrong about the underpowered part lmao. It actually would probably do a lot of good to inflate the percentage by a solid amount.

 

I'll throw you some screenshots tomorrow, Nirvanna, of a super stacked TK Kid and you can see what kind of average damage it dishes out for the gear utilized.

[Nirvanna21]

I would just throw Rankers a bone and make it like, 500% or 1000% damage on kicks and -100% after cast delay. Even with all that, they'd still be underpowered!

 

I would love to, but I would need to calc the damage and atm I just don't have the time.

 

It really doesn't help that I have NEVER really played Taekwon, since I cheesed my leveling with a DL card. At the end of the day if someone could maybe give me a visual on how stuff works and how the benefits would apply that would be awesome @_@

 

**EDIT**

 

Thanks Jerbear, it's just hard putting your full weight behind something when you know ABSOLUTELY nothing of how it works or plays. It's why I need specialised folks to weigh in.

Edited by Nirvanna21, 11 December 2017 - 05:17 PM.

[Jacqueli]

Just minor additional suggestions to add onto the hats for alternative play to fill in the gaps. Mind my quick paper math, it's all arm-chair without double checking. I also have no idea of what effects deserve to be at +0,+7, +9 or whatever; preferably lower in my opinion.

Rune Knight Hat
* [Sword Mastery]
> If user has a sword/dagger equipped then +40 ATK if skill Lv10

* [Two-Handed Sword Mastery]
> If user has a two handed sword equipped then +40 ATK if skill Lv10

* [Spear Mastery]
> If user has a spear equipped then +40 ATK if skill Lv10

* [Aura Blade]
> x4 effect, which is to say increase the damage from 100 to 400.

* [Spear Stab]
> Double? its damage if the enemy collides with an obstacle/wall similar to overbrand?

* [Pierce]
> Increase damage?

* [Spear Boomerang]
> Pull target to user, chance to stun based on Bash and its level.
> Increase cast delay by 3 seconds.

* [Relax]
> x3 its current effect.

* [Brandish Spear]
> Triple its damage if enemy collides with obstacle/wall similar to overbrand?

 

Explanation
- Actual +ATK from masteries is something that kRO should have fixed a long time ago, its a welcome boost and small enough to not completely force other builds to accommodate to it.
- Aura Blade: It hitting for 400 should speed up autoattack builds and the skill is quickly something that will become minor as the player progresses.
- Spear Stab and Brandish Spear: Mostly for alternative spear play.
- Spear Boomerang: Mostly for party play, push away mobs from party members with stab and pull them to you. The increased cast delay is mostly to prevent griefing with the skill by stealing mobs.
- Relaxation: Alternative play for newer players, relaxation under these changes would result nearly 10%? regen but with all the flaws. It's something that seems like a lot, but negated once the player needs to actual invest in healing items like Slims in harder areas or to increase exp/h.

Mechanic
* [Cart Boost]
> Copy Paste Gene Cartboost into this Skill.

* [High Speed Cart Ram]
> Double SP Cost, remove zeny cost.

* [Maximum Power-Thrust]
> Quadruple SP (60), remove zeny cost.
> It lasts 3 minutes so thats why it should have a heftier SP cost.

* [Silver FAW]
* [Magic FAW]
> Increase base damage by 150 per combined base and job level?

* [Fire Earth Research]
> +50 ATK and +50 Hard Defense against Fire and Earth Property monsters.

* [Axe Mastery]
> If user has a axe equipped then +50 ATK if skill Lv10
> If user has a mace equipped then +40 ATK if skill Lv10

* [Divest FAW]
> If it isn't instant cast with no delay then make it so.
> Return 1 Steel or 1 Iron when used on a FAW

Explanation
- Cart Boost: I don't know why kRO hates smiths, but it doesn't seem like it would be overkill if they got the same skill effects as Genes.
- High Speed Cart Ram: Mostly there for newer players who dont have a large fund to sink into leveling or use of HSCR due to zeny at the cost of double SP cost.
- Max Power: Same reason, just more SP cost since this thing lasts 3m.
- Silver/Magic FAW: Pretty damn useless in its current state, wanted something to scale with player level but remain viable enough for possibly late-game play also as a means to increase resource demand. Just really finding a way to make the skill viable in any way of the sense.
- Divest Faw: Really a need to justify the skill.
- Fire/Earth Research: Mastery shennigans, give players the boost that they should get for investing in the skills. Would help for leveling in Scaraba/Magma.
- Axe Mastery: More mastery shennigans.

 

Not much else I'd like to pick at (besides re-hauling the actual skill formula's for some classes).

[Nirvanna21]

Just minor additional suggestions to add onto the hats for alternative play to fill in the gaps. Mind my quick paper math, it's all arm-chair without double checking. I also have no idea of what effects deserve to be at +0,+7, +9 or whatever; preferably lower in my opinion.

Rune Knight Hat
* [Sword Mastery]
> If user has a sword/dagger equipped then +40 ATK if skill Lv10

* [Two-Handed Sword Mastery]
> If user has a two handed sword equipped then +40 ATK if skill Lv10

* [Spear Mastery]
> If user has a spear equipped then +40 ATK if skill Lv10

* [Aura Blade]
> x4 effect, which is to say increase the damage from 100 to 400.

* [Spear Stab]
> Double? its damage if the enemy collides with an obstacle/wall similar to overbrand?

* [Pierce]
> Increase damage?

* [Spear Boomerang]
> Pull target to user, chance to stun based on Bash and its level.
> Increase cast delay by 3 seconds.

* [Relax]
> x3 its current effect.

* [Brandish Spear]
> Triple its damage if enemy collides with obstacle/wall similar to overbrand?

 

Explanation
- Actual +ATK from masteries is something that kRO should have fixed a long time ago, its a welcome boost and small enough to not completely force other builds to accommodate to it.
- Aura Blade: It hitting for 400 should speed up autoattack builds and the skill is quickly something that will become minor as the player progresses.
- Spear Stab and Brandish Spear: Mostly for alternative spear play.
- Spear Boomerang: Mostly for party play, push away mobs from party members with stab and pull them to you. The increased cast delay is mostly to prevent griefing with the skill by stealing mobs.
- Relaxation: Alternative play for newer players, relaxation under these changes would result nearly 10%? regen but with all the flaws. It's something that seems like a lot, but negated once the player needs to actual invest in healing items like Slims in harder areas or to increase exp/h.

Mechanic
* [Cart Boost]
> Copy Paste Gene Cartboost into this Skill.

* [High Speed Cart Ram]
> Double SP Cost, remove zeny cost.

* [Maximum Power-Thrust]
> Quadruple SP (60), remove zeny cost.
> It lasts 3 minutes so thats why it should have a heftier SP cost.

* [Silver FAW]
* [Magic FAW]
> Increase base damage by 150 per combined base and job level?

* [Fire Earth Research]
> +50 ATK and +50 Hard Defense against Fire and Earth Property monsters.

* [Axe Mastery]
> If user has a axe equipped then +50 ATK if skill Lv10
> If user has a mace equipped then +40 ATK if skill Lv10

* [Divest FAW]
> If it isn't instant cast with no delay then make it so.
> Return 1 Steel or 1 Iron when used on a FAW

Explanation
- Cart Boost: I don't know why kRO hates smiths, but it doesn't seem like it would be overkill if they got the same skill effects as Genes.
- High Speed Cart Ram: Mostly there for newer players who dont have a large fund to sink into leveling or use of HSCR due to zeny at the cost of double SP cost.
- Max Power: Same reason, just more SP cost since this thing lasts 3m.
- Silver/Magic FAW: Pretty damn useless in its current state, wanted something to scale with player level but remain viable enough for possibly late-game play also as a means to increase resource demand. Just really finding a way to make the skill viable in any way of the sense.
- Divest Faw: Really a need to justify the skill.
- Fire/Earth Research: Mastery shennigans, give players the boost that they should get for investing in the skills. Would help for leveling in Scaraba/Magma.
- Axe Mastery: More mastery shennigans.

 

Not much else I'd like to pick at (besides re-hauling the actual skill formula's for some classes).

 

I would love to hear opinions of this from other players, the concept of making masteries useful would be awesome :U

[mildcontempt]

IMO the game as a whole should have the mastery skills revamped to be something like pseudo-buff ATK to benefit from % mods, and have a caveat like "if max job level then +5% atk when using whatever relevant weapon". There'd have to be some adjustments for like beast-bane or main ranger to be relegated based on race, but it wouldn't be too hard.