325 replies to this topic

[Ashuckel]

even if during the downtime of SS you use VB, it doesnt makes up for the sustained damage.

Having SS proc off full blast is not terrible for 3 reasons: the skill has a cast delay, and forces to either use cast delay gears, reducing burst damage, or getting strings. The skill uses a shotgun, and shotguns are terrible to get aspd, even if you manage to reduce it's aftercast delay. And lastly, it is still fishing for a chance to proc, not guaranteed, and the Full Blast damage even with the boost(wich can be lower, doesnt matter) without any procs is less consistent damage than using other rebel skills.


it has a chance to maybe increase your dps, at the oportunity cost of not giving you any damage stats and possibly not proccing at all, being a dps decrease.

Edited by Ashuckel, 08 December 2017 - 07:26 AM.

[blackCROSSCY]

even if during the downtime of SS you use VB, it doesnt makes up for the sustained damage.

Having SS proc off full blast is not terrible for 3 reasons: the skill has a cast delay, and forces to either use cast delay gears, reducing burst damage, or getting strings. The skill uses a shotgun, and shotguns are terrible to get aspd, even if you manage to reduce it's aftercast delay. And lastly, it is still fishing for a chance to proc, not guaranteed, and the Full Blast damage even with the boost(wich can be lower, doesnt matter) without any procs is less consistent damage than using other rebel skills.

I’d still much rather boost be done for other weapon classes that’s less played to be more competitive against shotgun and pistol. Also, the choice should be decided by community vote since it’s a “community created” headgear. It would also be good if we can have all of these headgears in sakray to be tested before we decide to really release it.

I say again, i’m not against your idea now- just very skeptical. I personally prefer it boosting other gun skills and not shotgun. If it ends up being your idea, we should have it all tested personally in sakray first so we can CLEARLY see it’s not as OP as you mention.

[mildcontempt]

On RK -- of the three options provided, I would prefer wind cutter + sonic wave. My view is that the cast time for IB isn't terribly relevant and 30% damage, while nice, is nothing huge since the major issue with it's damage output is the 2 second cool down. This current hat with wind cutter cool down would let you supplement the overall damage and give you more utility (fear + knockback is nice for some light CC), and as BC said, it would still be a useful piece of gear to have if you wanted to do a ranged single-target build -- which, sorry to repeat, is something that phys RKs lack and could benefit from. 

 

On Rebel -- I honestly don't think they need one, but if so then I'd avoid buffing slugshot. Regardless of it not being "optimal DPS" it is definitely a mainstream skill, and if the goal is to encourage alternative playstyles I'd avoid it. One thing that really irks me about rebels and gunslingers in general is that the gatling gun, despite being a friggin' gattling gun is not the ASPD/auto-attack weapon of choice. 

[Ashuckel]

buffing autoattack builds is dangeours :x

[Nirvanna21]

i disagree with slug shot being boosted. Community headgear is supposed to promote alternative playstyles and improve weaker aspects of classes. Slug shot is already the most power skill for rebel, it shouldn't be boosted at all, nor be auto-casted out for the huge damage it does. The idea of boosting fullblast and autocasting slugshot is essentially is like RKs auto-casting crush strike on a 20% chance when they use spiral pierce, and then further boosting spiral pierce damage by 100%. On 2 kiel carded players or under strings, it will turn into some disgusting amounts of DPS that will be even worse than anything we've seen to date. (2600% damage skill on aspd, possibly 7times a second, and then 20% chance for some 1-3m damage slugshot to appear). 

 

Instead of doing something so absurd to the already strongest weapon class for rebels, I suggest boosting other weapon classes of rebel, especially pistol. Even gatling is fine, such as reducing fire rain cooldown (from 6second to 4 or 3seconds for example). 

 

My suggestion is to consider boost any of these skills: Fire Rain(gatling), Fire Dance(pistol), Mass Spiral (rifle), and leave shotgun untouched.

 

Honestly, since rebels itself got a huge full buff from kRO to begin with, i do not recommend we do anything drastic with rebel headgears because it would turn their skills from OP to super OP. They already got fixed, we are currently in the dangerous process of turning them from great to absurd.

 

I know where you are coming from, Rebel will be the hardest one honestly. All of their skills are crazy as, of the 3 you suggested... at a pinch maybe Mass Spiral? Most definitely not Fire Rain, that's also insanely powerful, this may require a thread on the Rebel sub section.

 

+1...

 

I would only worry about dumping the past Community headgears such as the WL's which I know people have multiple +13'd and with different cards. So I would make the 1.0 and the 2.0 versions of all headgears available for quests. 

 

These headgears should be for levelling since from 170 on Bio5 hats should prevail. So I liked what you did with the Sura, Ranger, Mecha, Shadow Chaser and physical Doram's headgears. It is pretty fun to watch jRO videos where Suras cast their combos without delay, it would make me want to do a Sura.

 

Genes are already OP and this hat is fine, should help those unable to pay for a +7 CHB.

 

As far as the versions are concerned, the only one that will receive two versions is the Warlock hat. The proposed one is mower powerful in all but two scenarios, one which was argued and another which requires a piece of gear we don't have. Simply because people invested billions is why I decided to make a different version of this hat. The others will all be treated as originally intended, because they simply don't have the same excuse. At the end of the day the new Warlock hat will be better than the old one.

 

some of my ideas for Doram:

 

pom pom headband (imagine a pom pom like moggle):

 

for every refine level, all stats +1

 

for every 30 base vit, increase stoop duration by 1 second

for every 30 base str, reduce lunatic carrot beat cooldown by 1 second

for every 30 base dex, reduce fixed cast time of silvervine stem spear by 20%

for every 30 base agi, incease agi granted by arclouze dash by 5 and arclouze dash duration by 20 seconds

for every 30 base int, increase effectiveness of healing skills by 10%

for every 30 base luk, increase critical damage of soul attack by 5%

 

if refined to +9:

when mastered spirit of sea, increase effectiveness of healing skills by 10%

when mastered spirit of life, reduce lunatic carrot beat cooldown by 1 second

when mastered spirit of land, reduce fixed cast time of silvervine stem spear by 20%

 

The effects seem pretty cool, though I would double the healing skill effectiveness. Support Dorams AoE healing is absolute garbage.

Edited by Nirvanna21, 08 December 2017 - 09:25 AM.

[Kusanagisama]

Shrine Maiden's Hat
Increases the damage of ^0000FFMagnus Exorcismus^000000 by 1% per level of ^0000FFMagnus Exorcismus^000000 known for every 6 base Int.
If upgrade level is +7 or higher,
Matk + 5%
If upgrade level is +9 or higher,
Reduces the variable casting time of ^0000FFMagnus Exorcismus^000000 by 50%.
Reduces the fixed casting time of ^0000FFMagnus Exorcismus^000000 by 70%.

This hat has been designed to empower Magnus Exorcismus for leveling and end game use.

 

Is it "1% per level of ME Known + 1% per 6 base INT" or "+1% per 6 base INT with a cap of ME's Known Level"?

[Nirvanna21]

Is it "1% per level of ME Known + 1% per 6 base INT" or "+1% per 6 base INT with a cap of ME's Known Level"?

 

It is the Picky Peck/SSS accessory effects. So for every 6 base int, gain x% damage of ME. The x being the level of ME known. So if you had 60 base Int and Level 5 ME, that would be 50% boost. If you had 120 int and Level 10 ME that would be a 200% boost.

[Nirvanna21]

Double posting, I have changed the latest design of bonus delegation. It gives bonuses as a standalone hat and at +9 it will give the rest. The point of a lot of these hats is for alternative builds being enabled, most of which previously benefited from the +9 effects, the way I see it... you should be able to access the bits that make it fun to use first, and the damage should be an eventual bonus. Some hats still follow the conventional formula of damage first since in these cases the damage is what mostly makes it a viable skill.

 

**UPDATE**

 

Ash also recommended an auto casting hat for the Ninja one. Seeing as charms are bugged. It would give a "3% chance on magic hit to cast Explosive Dragon, Snowflake Drak, Lightning Jolt, First Wind". What do you guys think of that?

Edited by Nirvanna21, 08 December 2017 - 11:49 AM.

[mildcontempt]

buffing autoattack builds is dangeours :x

 

I know, and I'm not suggesting it, but just find it irksome on a flavor/concept level that a pistol (Revolver in most cases) somehow can keep a stream of 7+ bullets a second up easier than a gun which by definition was designed to blast out dozens to hundreds of bullets per second. 

 

 

EDIT:

 

I like the reversal of giving the functionality (cool down, cast time, delay) first as it would really let you taste what using the skill is like, and upgrading it would just plain make it better. +1 there m80. 

Edited by mildcontempt, 08 December 2017 - 02:16 PM.

[Nirvanna21]

I know, and I'm not suggesting it, but just find it irksome on a flavor/concept level that a pistol (Revolver in most cases) somehow can keep a stream of 7+ bullets a second up easier than a gun which by definition was designed to blast out dozens to hundreds of bullets per second. 

 

 

EDIT:

 

I like the reversal of giving the functionality (cool down, cast time, delay) first as it would really let you taste what using the skill is like, and upgrading it would just plain make it better. +1 there m80. 

 

Thanks, that was what I was thinking at the time :U

[RioCyrus97]

uuuu....interesting hat. I think that looks good for alternative building. I can only said that for mecha only, idk about others. The Doram headgear name should go the latter. (Human ear beret sounds weird )

Edited by RioCyrus97, 08 December 2017 - 06:00 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

The Doram headgear name should go the later. (Human ear beret sounds weird )

Just a little.

[mildcontempt]

"Norman Beret"

[blackCROSSCY]

Thanks for the changes, but i’m still gonna insist on one point for the RK headgear. Can the wind cutter cooldown just be reduced straight to -2. I honestly wouldn’t bother with windcutter at 0.5sconds cd because it’s really just that weak a skill.

Just comparing the headgears, earthdrive, a completely 4-5 times stronger skill than windcutter is given a major 2.75 seconds cooldown reduction (from 3 seconds) which makes it spammable at 4 a second you know.

That’s what i don’t get, RK is the one that’s currently without any spammable skills but you’re giving rg more spammability with earthdrive when they have much stronger skills to spam already. At the least windcutter cd should be -1.8sec, that would synergies with RKs to get aspd to spam 5 a second like RC. It’s a fixed element low damage skill.

Edited by blackCROSSCY, 08 December 2017 - 05:24 PM.

[Nirvanna21]

Thanks for the changes, but i’m still gonna insist on one point for the RK headgear. Can the wind cutter cooldown just be reduced straight to -2. I honestly wouldn’t bother with windcutter at 0.5sconds cd because it’s really just that weak a skill.

Just comparing the headgears, earthdrive, a completely 4-5 times stronger skill than windcutter is given a major 2.75 seconds cooldown reduction (from 3 seconds) which makes it spammable at 4 a second you know.

That’s what i don’t get, RK is the one that’s currently without any spammable skills but you’re giving rg more spammability with earthdrive when they have much stronger skills to spam already. At the least windcutter cd should be -1.8sec, that would synergies with RKs to get aspd to spam 5 a second like RC. It’s a fixed element low damage skill.

 

The thing is, it is two hits per second with the current changes. With the boost of 100%, this skill can reach up to a modifier of 1224%. This is close to a basic Ignition Break. And it's a neutral skill which can be swayed by the elements. Earth Drive was made to be spammed for a reason, it is forced to be Earth. Earth is one of the weaker attacking elements. And it IS to encourage alternative play. RG has plenty of skills, I was hoping by making ED spammable they would try it out for a change.

 

If will work out how much average damage you can get atm with Wind Cutter and make a decision.

[RioCyrus97]

Just a little.

[blackCROSSCY]

The thing is, it is two hits per second with the current changes. With the boost of 100%, this skill can reach up to a modifier of 1224%. This is close to a basic Ignition Break. And it's a neutral skill which can be swayed by the elements. Earth Drive was made to be spammed for a reason, it is forced to be Earth. Earth is one of the weaker attacking elements. And it IS to encourage alternative play. RG has plenty of skills, I was hoping by making ED spammable they would try it out for a change.

If will work out how much average damage you can get atm with Wind Cutter and make a decision.

windcutter is fixed wind element, it’s not neutral. After you boost earthdrive that way, it essentially hits way harder than a basic ignition break 4x a second on anemos shield. They are the same thing, i just don’t see why the huge biase to majorly boost earthdrive while limiting windcutter which has way smaller modifier (lower than a bash lol).

Edited by blackCROSSCY, 08 December 2017 - 06:11 PM.

[Nirvanna21]

windcutter is fixed wind element, it’s not neutral

 

Then I will buff it.

[blackCROSSCY]

Thanks for being logical. eventually we should test it all out on sakray. You’ll see the earthdrive and windcutter difference then

[Nirvanna21]

Thanks for being logical. eventually we should test it all out on sakray. You’ll see the earthdrive and windcutter difference then

 

Both have been changed to allow for 3 attacks per second. And yes everything will be tested.

[Yeoh900418]

 

Autumn Headband

Int + 5

Reduces the variable casting time of ^0000FFArrow Storm^000000 by 100%.
Increases the damage of ^0000FFFire Trap^000000 and ^0000FFIce Trap^000000 by 100%.
If upgrade level is +9 or higher,
Adds a 4% chance of restoring 8% of damage as HP when performing a physical attack.
Adds a 2% chance of restoring 4% of damage as SP when performing a physical attack.

Increases the damage of ^0000FFArrow Storm^000000 by 20%.

Reduced damage output for Arrow Storm, replaced with variable cast time reduction. This makes it more useful for leveling and less useful as an end game headgear. Also added trapper focused bonuses as was the original intention of the hat. The trapper portion can be used completely for leveling and end game scenarios.

B

Name TBD (Kagero/Oboro)

All Stats + 1 per upgrade level of the item up to a maximum upgrade level of 8.

Adds a 3% chance of casting ^0000FFLevel 1 Exploding Dragon^000000, ^0000FFLevel 1 First Wind^000000, ^0000FFLevel 1 Lightning Jolt^000000 or ^0000FFLevel 1 Snow Flake Draft^000000 on the target when performing a magical attack, if a higher level of this skill is known, it will be cast instead.
If upgrade level is +9 or higher,
Increases the damage of ^0000FFExploding Dragon^000000, ^0000FFFirst Wind^000000, ^0000FFLightning Jolt^000000 or ^0000FFSnow Flake Draft^000000 by 10%.

 

Recommended by Ash, since the charms are bugged and who knows when they will be fixed.

 

For ranger headband, it is best to create another new headgear for trapper ranger/ warg dagger build.

 

For current situation (with OP autumn headband), AS damage is arguable and with highly refined gears and weapons can only yield a good damage. There is no good headgear for AOE ranger build (AS) in IRO is able to replace autumn headband, not even with bio5 headgear to boost AOE ranger build. From my past experience, ranger with autumn headband, and with WW set +9 + elven bow +12 and converter can only deal like 100k AS damage to Randel. With this modification, I bet AS damage is even more pathetic and soon enough, ranger gonna loses a seat in any recruit parties and instances. 

 

 

For K/O headgear, I would like to propose adding (mainly throwing build):

 

a. Reduce skill cool down of swirling petal to 1s if upgrade to +9. The reason behind is even with golden ninja set + temp dex boots, main throwing K/O skill, swirling petal still has 0.5 s skill cool down. With this boost, this will be another good choice for K/O to put aside of golden ninja set and able to equip other elemental armor, while still can keep spamming the skill (even with lower damage)... 

 

b. Increase kunai explosion and kunai splash damage by 10%.. since kunai splash skill is still bugged and kunai explosion can only deal moderate damage. 

 

What do you think?

[fuyukikun]

A hat that can widen KE aoe to 7x7 plz

[Nirvanna21]

For ranger headband, it is best to create another new headgear for trapper ranger/ warg dagger build.

 

For current situation (with OP autumn headband), AS damage is arguable and with highly refined gears and weapons can only yield a good damage. There is no good headgear for AOE ranger build (AS) in IRO is able to replace autumn headband, not even with bio5 headgear to boost AOE ranger build. From my past experience, ranger with autumn headband, and with WW set +9 + elven bow +12 and converter can only deal like 100k AS damage to Randel. With this modification, I bet AS damage is even more pathetic and soon enough, ranger gonna loses a seat in any recruit parties and instances. 

 

 

For K/O headgear, I would like to propose adding (mainly throwing build):

 

a. Reduce skill cool down of swirling petal to 1s if upgrade to +9. The reason behind is even with golden ninja set + temp dex boots, main throwing K/O skill, swirling petal still has 0.5 s skill cool down. With this boost, this will be another good choice for K/O to put aside of golden ninja set and able to equip other elemental armor, while still can keep spamming the skill (even with lower damage)... 

 

b. Increase kunai explosion and kunai splash damage by 10%.. since kunai splash skill is still bugged and kunai explosion can only deal moderate damage. 

 

What do you think?

 

A hat that can widen KE aoe to 7x7 plz

 

I would love to hear other thoughts on these proposed ideas for Kage/Obo, since the "new" hats will take at least 3 months once submitted for anything to turn up, we could toy with certain ideas but they need to be relatively concrete.

 

As for the AHB, no, I have run the numbers many times and have quite a good understanding of how a Ranger works. Honestly, you shouldn't be using an Elven Bow by later game, it should be Gigantic Bow or Big Crossbow for Arrow Storm. With shield spell buffs AS can still get some decent numbers, nothing Bio4 parties particularly want but the great thing is Bio4 isn't the only thing a Ranger can do. They can do NCT, in which a new headgear has made it's way for that, a new headgear that well and truly helps Rangers in NCT.

 

I would be willing to throw back a little ranged damage. But I have tweaked it for a reason. At the end of the day, it was first and foremost MEANT to be a trapper hat, and while I argued a long time ago it shouldn't change, the fact is it needs to at least be nerfed. I am adding the trapper stuff to it because honestly, it's been what... over 7 years now since the concept started, poor Fuyu would have loved his hat to be realised sooner. This is a compromise because if I made the trapper hat into a new one, it would be thrown with the rest.

Edited by Nirvanna21, 08 December 2017 - 09:15 PM.

[Yeoh900418]

 

As for the AHB, no, I have run the numbers many times and have quite a good understanding of how a Ranger works. Honestly, you shouldn't be using an Elven Bow by later game, it should be Gigantic Bow or Big Crossbow for Arrow Storm. With shield spell buffs AS can still get some decent numbers, nothing Bio4 parties particularly want but the great thing is Bio4 isn't the only thing a Ranger can do. They can do NCT, in which a new headgear has made it's way for that, a new headgear that well and truly helps Rangers in NCT.

 

 

 

What is the expected damage reduction with the proposed autumn headband? 14% when at level 175?

 

What I wanna express here is there will be a uproar if autumn headband to be modified with lower damage, since there is no substitute (not even bio5 headgear) and it is always the core headgear for ranger class.. unless OCP items have new headgear that will buff ranger's arrow storm damage. 

 

Yes, you are right. Leveling beyond 150 level should not always bio4; NCT is another good choice. However, what player always want here is with max 175 level, they wanna try to solo some instances or parties with friends in ET/ instances.. and if the damage is unfavourable, do you think ranger is still needed as part of the team? 

 

Tbh, I don't see any up-coming updates/ OCP? on ranger class. If happen to modify the AHB, ranger class will gonna fall into wanted class for any parties. 

I am not pushing away any boost in trapper ranger here. I do love to see them shrine one day.. (because i also play trapper).. but best idea here is to create a new headgear for trapper while leave existing AHB untouched. 

[Nirvanna21]

What is the expected damage reduction with the proposed autumn headband? 14% when at level 175?

What I wanna express here is there will be a uproar if autumn headband to be modified with lower damage, since there is no substitute (not even bio5 headgear) and it is always the core headgear for ranger class.. unless OCP items have new headgear that will buff ranger's arrow storm damage.

Yes, you are right. Leveling beyond 150 level should not always bio4; NCT is another good choice. However, what player always want here is with max 175 level, they wanna try to solo some instances or parties with friends in ET/ instances.. and if the damage is unfavourable, do you think ranger is still needed as part of the team?

Tbh, I don't see any up-coming updates/ OCP? on ranger class. If happen to modify the AHB, ranger class will gonna fall into wanted class for any parties.
I am not pushing away any boost in trapper ranger here. I do love to see them shrine one day.. (because i also play trapper).. but best idea here is to create a new headgear for trapper while leave existing AHB untouched.

You can do instances fine without it. There are items in future ocps that boost AS directly or indirectly.

The change for AHB is going through as is.