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RO Transcendence: Remove Asura Cooldown


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#1 AaronP2W

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 07:49 PM

The 10 second cooldown on Asura must be removed in order for pre-trans woe to be competitive.

We saw what this skill change did to Restart; it was near impossible to win an outnumbered fight.


Edited by AaronP2W, 20 December 2019 - 07:50 PM.

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#2 Sigma1

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 09:44 PM

It's in 1st/2nd class balance that Asura Strike SP recovery penalty duration has been reduced from 10 seconds to 3 seconds.
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#3 AaronP2W

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 06:41 AM

It's in 1st/2nd class balance that Asura Strike SP recovery penalty duration has been reduced from 10 seconds to 3 seconds.

 

What does this mean?  :hmm:


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#4 LeginNoslen

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 07:20 AM

The 10 second cooldown on Asura must be removed in order for pre-trans woe to be competitive.

We saw what this skill change did to Restart; it was near impossible to win an outnumbered fight.

 

Should you be winning a fight when you're outnumbered?

Barring other factors, the answer is no, no you should not.


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#5 senpa1

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 07:26 AM

Should you be winning a fight when you're outnumbered?

Barring other factors, the answer is no, no you should not.

 

All factors being equal you're correct. But that doesn't mean skill changes should exacerbate that. 


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#6 Ashuckel

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 07:50 AM

What does this mean? :hmm:



Means its an innevitable future update, that doesnt require making custom changes ahead of time.
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#7 AaronP2W

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 08:08 AM

Just make the sp cooldown penalty 3 seconds on release then. 


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#8 Paprikaa

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 09:46 AM

Sure, give rebalance to only one class on release and let the others wait for months, I don't see how that would be unfair at all.


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#9 AaronP2W

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 09:53 AM

If you played Restart you would understand why this is necessary. 


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#10 Suraborn

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 10:42 AM

Sure, give rebalance to only one class on release and let the others wait for months, I don't see how that would be unfair at all.


This isn’t about balancing a class just because anyone wants something to be stronger. The 10 second SP regen delay post asura created this brainless “Who has more Knights” meta in woe that was extremely dull and created this whole notion that you needed to soak up as many people/guilds as possible to compete with anyone else.

Asura control keeps the knight meta at bay. If we have to wait 6 months to 1 year for some kind of magical change after the meta was already ruined it will have been too late and people will leave. Anyone who woes with a competitive guild or has woed with one would agree it needs to change before woe starts.
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#11 Suraborn

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 10:43 AM

This is also really related to woe. If you have another PT class that needs to be rebalanced or its misbalance severely impacts WoE by all means please share.
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#12 Paprikaa

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 11:54 AM

This is also really related to woe. If you have another PT class that needs to be rebalanced or its misbalance severely impacts WoE by all means please share.

 

Every class needs the general change to having CD instead of ACD on their skills. On WoE context, we're talking specially about:

Knight (BB fix, changes to damage, internal cooldown; brandish strongly buffed and made ranged as a viable option against people in safety wall)
Rogue (from useless to useful)
BS (I can't even start to speak of the changes that made the class a must in WoE parties)
Alchies (from coat bot to useful)
Wizzies and meteor spam (no longer spammable after rebalance)
Sage (less stuffs needed? Idk, you might not consider the changes to gem consumption relevant for WoE, and I can give you that)
Bragi (read: wizzies and meteor spam; also profound changes to songs that now do not stack anymore, huge deal; also the freezing thingie not being spammable anymore)
Dancer (lesser effects on songs; songs don't stack anymore; dazzle no longer spammable)
Aco (ME is now strong in WoE ~and now hits all targets, regardless of race/element, of course~, very relevant specially for precasting, but also as a general potent AoE that people use once the enemy LP gets burned; several changes to buffs; safety wall made tankier)
And THEN you have just another class, that is Monk (3 sec cd on gfist; maybe stronger/spammable TSS? I have rarely seen anyone die to a TSS spam on kRO tho, so idk if i'd say the TSS part is relevant)

This is just from the top of my head, mind you. I for sure must've forgot plenty of the changes.
Idk if you guys are completely unaware of the rebalance changes at all, but they change completely the meta and modus operandi of WoE alone, let alone other aspects that we're ignoring for the sake of the argument. Hell, the changes to wizz AoEs and bragi combined are for sure 100 times as important as your gfist mana regen timer thingie.


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#13 HunkSurvivor

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 12:04 PM

Agree with the 3 second cooldown in asura or the contrary woe will get that tank-dps league of legends boring meta lol

Edit: Not biased since i'm a gunner-rebel main in RO1.


Edited by HunkSurvivor, 21 December 2019 - 12:04 PM.

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#14 Suraborn

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 12:40 PM

Why are you busting out all the Zero changes when this has nothing to do with zero NOR are any of those changes as important as asura. Sounds like a pretty casual point of view.

And actually, I’m not even sure you understand what kind of server you’re playing on lol. This isn’t zero.

Edited by Suraborn, 21 December 2019 - 12:43 PM.

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#15 Paprikaa

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 01:01 PM

Why are you busting out all the Zero changes when this has nothing to do with zero NOR are any of those changes as important as asura. Sounds like a pretty casual point of view.

And actually, I’m not even sure you understand what kind of server you’re playing on lol. This isn’t zero.

 

These changes aren't Zero exclusive, they are kRO changes scheduled to come to RT. Just like the 3s mana regen timer change you want to see in RT.

Therefore my point of it not being fair that monks get their change first — while other classes have to wait for god knows how long — just because OP likes monks.


Edited by Paprikaa, 21 December 2019 - 01:02 PM.

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#16 AaronP2W

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 01:26 PM

These changes aren't Zero exclusive, they are kRO changes scheduled to come to RT. Just like the 3s mana regen timer change you want to see in RT.

Therefore my point of it not being fair that monks get their change first — while other classes have to wait for god knows how long — just because OP likes monks.

 

I have a very good understanding of the game and want what is best for it. 

 

Sounds like it would be most interesting and fun if we had all those changes at the start. 


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#17 xSwain

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 01:39 PM

Some stuff about this revo-classic that I really don't like:

 

- Trapper hunters are OP. I'll always defend that Archers should use bows, it's the core concept of the class: you cannot use shields with race damage mitigation in exchange of being a potential killer. Now you're almost forced to go for trapper hunter build just because claymore trap/landing mine damage are insane and you can perform well with high vitality and combat knife/thara frog combo.

- Little effect of Dex on cast time for Monks. Now you just need high str and high int to one shot everyone, dex effect was important for the player choice: Less chance to be interrupted/outplayed vs capacity to one shot vit Knights. I also like the idea of 3s mana recovery block, now monks can't just jump inside enemy guild, kill someone, cast 1 sphere and snap back to safety.

- Gutter lines need to be fixed, it isn't a game mechanic, but a BUG that need to be fixed as soon as possible.

 

Each class need changes, for this reason so many people asks for Zero changes. Even with Campitor and the staff saying that the Zero skill changes will come to RT "eventually", I'm afraid it take so long that people with already high level characters needs to remake classes to enter the new meta.


Edited by xSwain, 21 December 2019 - 01:41 PM.

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#18 Suraborn

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 01:59 PM

Why is it that when someone proposes something, people that play a different class get all defensive and start with “OP likes x class therefor that’s why OP wants the change”.

I will repeat, that this is an issue with WoE meta and not specific to monks per say but learning from Restart is a necessity if we want this server wants to last longer than the last one did.

If longevity doesn’t appeal to you then sure, continue to demand all 400,000 changes at the same time so it’s fair to all classes and we can move on in 3 months when everyone gets bored of 30 knights vs 30 knights slapping each other for 2 hours at a time.

Edited by Suraborn, 21 December 2019 - 02:00 PM.

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#19 Paprikaa

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 02:13 PM

Why is it that when someone proposes something, people that play a different class get all defensive and start with “OP likes x class therefor that’s why OP wants the change”.

 

Cuz you're asking for changes for your class before every other class gets theirs.
 

continue to demand all 400,000 changes at the same time so it’s fair to all classes and we can move on in 3 months when everyone gets bored of 30 knights vs 30 knights slapping each other for 2 hours at a time.

 

Yep, that's more fair to every other class. You know, the community as a whole (even those filthy, disgusting non-monk players).


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#20 AaronP2W

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 02:19 PM

Cuz you're asking for changes for your class before every other class gets theirs.

 

It's more so reverting a change that Restart changed from Classic. 


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#21 Suraborn

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 02:35 PM

Cuz you're asking for changes for your class before every other class gets theirs.


Yep, that's more fair to every other class. You know, the community as a whole (even those filthy, disgusting non-monk players).


So you must be saying that your viewpoint is biased towards aspects not related to woe then. Because the monk change dramatically improves pretrans woe whereas not a single one of those other changes proposed makes woe not a knight v knight Arthritis fight until at minimum Trans. They just don’t and honestly for you to try and argue they do is borderline trolling.
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#22 Paprikaa

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 02:35 PM

It's more so reverting a change that Restart changed from Classic. 

 

I recall it being like:
Classic (0s) > Renewal (10s) (Restart drinks from the renewal fountain) > kRO future changes (3s)
Is this wrong?


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#23 xSwain

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 02:37 PM

In WoE matter, classic mechanic did really well before Acid Demonstration, this spell just killed LKs from woes and put the long-ranged eternal battle as the meta. Was just "Magic classes focus Creators, Creators focus Professors and everything will be fine".

 

Now we have a trap that can do 9k instant damage each in a full defensive hunter, a Crusader with 17k life spamming Holy Cross to kill everyone and a Monk that just need spam Str and Int to one shot every class than become a potato for 10s. Wizards don't need vit anymore because dancers cannot spam stun, so they can go int/dex with devotion.


Edited by xSwain, 21 December 2019 - 02:46 PM.

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#24 Suraborn

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 02:43 PM

I recall it being like:
Classic (0s) > Renewal (10s) (Restart drinks from the renewal fountain) > kRO future changes (3s)
Is this wrong?


iRO Chaos didn’t start as renewal pretrans tho afaik. So when renewal was introduced there were other classes that kept the meta in check. Restart introduced the cooldown right off the bat and it wasn’t until Trans with Bombs doing obscene damage that the meta shifted to a proportional era.
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#25 Paprikaa

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 02:52 PM

So you must be saying that your viewpoint is biased towards aspects not related to woe then. Because the monk change dramatically improves pretrans woe whereas not a single one of those other changes proposed makes woe not a knight v knight Arthritis fight until at minimum Trans. They just don’t and honestly for you to try and argue they do is borderline trolling.

 

If:

bragi being the way it is — making a plethora of skills spammable, and specially meteor storm, the very basis of every precast in pre-3rd woe (while after the changes no skills are spammable anymore) —;
songs in general being the way they are — knights (but not only them) making use of both bragi, sunset and idun all at the same time —;
BB being the way it is — spammable depending only on your ASPD if you're on bragi, with no internal CD —;
Dazzle being no longer spammable, essentially changing the way people need to build their characters;
that and all the other changes that made blacksmiths, alchies, rogues and ME aco viable (4 classes!!). If you think all of these don't change the WoE environment, but only your 3s mana regen timer does, then... sure.
But I don't think I'm the one borderline trolling or blind. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 


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