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Request to ban dual clienting


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#1 MaronaPossessed

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 02:07 PM

I know this has bought up a million times and probably the most recent suggestion, but I want you to hear me out on my opinion on the benefits of banning dual clienting.
 
Dual clienting is a problem for many reasons, and I'll list why:
 
Economy Reason:
Lately I've been seeing a lot of characters camping on certain maps (looking at you Poring Island and Dragonfly map) with a timer they only know. Because of them camping in multiple spots on each map, this makes it easy for them to find the boss and kill it, and get that rare item. If that keeps happening and they control that map, they basically control the economy of that item. (I.E. Clip, Evil Wings, Etc.). Doing away with dual clienting will make the economy better on those certain items and prevent the control of the market.
 
Discouraging Classes:
We all seen this with other legitimate players. Someone will be playing two characters at once: Their Crusader and their Priest. Not only this discourages people and players for creating a Full Support class (yes I'm including Sage and future Soul Linkers here), but this gives more power to the person dual clienting. Some people do not have the specs or power in order to play two characters at once on their computer, plus it makes it pointless in creating a support class.
 
Less Bots:
I'm pretty sure majority of us will agree on this. This will help lessen the bots on the server by a good amount (at least eliminating a third of them if any). Bots use multiple clients and programs on the same computer in order to maximize their input and output in earning money. While EAC helps out for half of the part, banning dual clienting will help as well.
 
Arguments against this:
I am aware there would be some arguments. Some people like to play solo or afraid they cannot find a FS class to help and party with.

Spoiler
While there are some downsides for you, please think of the benefits that banning this could bring.
 
EDIT 3/25:
A lot of people actually had good arguments against this! I'll list the following and link accordingly.
1. Finding a support/offense class to help grind and farm items for hours.Chances are, people won't find people that stay that long.Post
2. Most people don't have that much time on their hands and want to get the most out of their game. Post
3. Some instances require more than one person to enter. This may be difficult when finding the right person.Post
 
So how would we ban dual clienting?
 
So far the only easy way I can see this is preventing the IP address connecting more than once on the server. When you try to connect twice, it will be like "Server recongnizes you're logged in," but in IP address.
 
TL;DR Banning Dual Clienting brings the following benefits:
-Help the economy by preventing people controlling the market for certain items.
-Encourages new players and other players to play different classes, mainly full support.
-Less bots. Do you remember liking more bots on this server? Yeah. I don't either.


Edited by MaronaPossessed, 25 March 2020 - 06:04 AM.
Mod Edit: Removed.

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#2 Haljegh

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 02:18 PM

Dual/multiclienting is very cheesy, gives players unfair unintended advantages including permanent agiup/bless, magnificat, endow, link, Heal spam, and more.
More recently, there have been reports of players leaving multiple dead novices scattered across a map to scout for boss and rare spawns with little effort.

It's not about pc specs or player skill/multitasking
It's about giving yourself an unfair advantage and invalidating the existence of many classes.
It's about social interaction; the point of MMOs is to interact with other players.  Players who choose to abuse this are playing in their own bubble, treating our beloved MMO as a fully solo experience while reaping the benefits of party mechanics.

Don't give me that "you can do it too so its fair!" garbage.
You know you're scum for running multiple clients; you know there is absolutely no challenge involved, only tedium for alt+tabbing and maybe 20 hours tops to leech your priest to a respectable level.

The only question is if WP has the resources to actively deter these players.
"Ban double IP connections" is not a real solution.  Abusers will set up a VPN for the secondary account, meanwhile legitimate players wouldn't be able to log in with their immediate household/dormitory.


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#3 5584171015142815377

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 02:31 PM

I know this has bought up a million times and probably the most recent suggestion, but I want you to hear me out on my opinion on the benefits of banning dual clienting.

 

Dual clienting is a problem for many reasons, and I'll list why:

 

Economy Reason:

Lately I've been seeing a lot of characters camping on certain maps (looking at you Poring Island and Dragonfly map) with a timer they only know. Because of them camping in multiple spots on each map, this makes it easy for them to find the boss and kill it, and get that rare item. If that keeps happening and they control that map, they basically control the economy of that item. (I.E. Clip, Evil Wings, Etc.). Doing away with dual clienting will make the economy better on those certain items and prevent the control of the market.

 

Discouraging Classes:

We all seen this with other legitimate players. Someone will be playing two characters at once: Their Crusader and their Priest. Not only this discourages people and players for creating a Full Support class (yes I'm including Sage and future Soul Linkers here), but this gives more power to the person dual clienting. Some people do not have the specs or power in order to play two characters at once on their computer, plus it makes it pointless in creating a support class.

 

Less Bots:

I'm pretty sure majority of us will agree on this. This will help lessen the bots on the server by a good amount (at least eliminating a third of them if any). Bots use multiple clients and programs on the same computer in order to maximize their input and output in earning money. While EAC helps out for half of the part, banning dual clienting will help as well.

 

Arguments against this:

I am aware there would be some arguments. Some people like to play solo or afraid they cannot find a FS class to help and party with.

Spoiler
While there are some downsides for you, please think of the benefits that banning this could bring.

 

So how would we ban dual clienting?

 

So far the only easy way I can see this is preventing the IP address connecting more than once on the server. When you try to connect twice, it will be like "Server recongnizes you're logged in," but in IP address.

 

TL;DR Banning Dual Clienting brings the following benefits:

-Help the economy by preventing people controlling the market for certain items.

-Encourages new players and other players to play different classes, mainly full support.

-Less bots. Do you remember liking more bots on this server? Yeah. I don't either.

 

to request dual client banning is to not understand the game. Dual clienting for one, does NOT take away from party play or FS priests. 
 

An active FS priest has always and will ALWAYS be better than dual clienting a priest yourself. If you can't find people to play with as an FS priest its not because of dual clienting, its because those people just wanna play by themselves ANYWAY. 

Further there are classes in this game that require little to no active input. I am not goin to ask a guildie to AFK and press Magic Strings once every 3 minutes in a party for example when one of the other actives can just tab over and pop that. If we have a bard main who wants to do that great, but I'm not going to expect that of someone. Which is what a ban on dual clients will do.

Further you also disable any opportunity for a solo player to maximize their personal experience in any way. Not only can we not buff with priest, we cannot endow ourselves, we cannot teleport ourselves, etc. We cannot do anything without it being a tedious chore. Officials already cut out all the convenience with the exception of broken cash shop items. 
 

And before you try to make the pathetic argument that "well thats how the game was intended" let me just say that absolutely no one gives a single damn about how this game was "intended" to be played. They didn't intend for us to use level 1 weapons with 4 slots in classic, but thats how it ended up playing out. They didn't intend for us to be so tanky with high defense refines that PVM content was inconsequential. They did not intend for Asura Strike to be as dominant as it was for MVPing, (as evidenced by the implementation of many ghost mvps in middle patches of ragnarok history). They also viewed Acid Bomb as a mistake as well as evidence by the implementation of low VIT mvps in renewal. (the ones after the original classics). 

There is no argument to be made against dual clienting that doesn't hurt basically everyone who isn't lazy. If you are finding players don't wanna play with you I suggest you make some friends, go out and talk to someone, and join a guild. I have a full support priest main/friend who I play with whenever he is down to support me. I never prefer to play alone if I can. The people that want to play alone are going to play alone no matter what dual clienting or not. 


Edited by VModCinnamon, 24 March 2020 - 04:13 PM.
Mod Edit: edited in quote.

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#4 MaronaPossessed

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 03:05 PM

1.Further there are classes in this game that require little to no active input. I am not goin to ask a guildie to AFK and press Magic Strings once every 3 minutes in a party for example when one of the other actives can just tab over and pop that. If we have a bard main who wants to do that great, but I'm not going to expect that of someone. Which is what a ban on dual clients will do.

2.Further you also disable any opportunity for a solo player to maximize their personal experience in any way. Not only can we not buff with priest, we cannot endow ourselves, we cannot teleport ourselves, etc. We cannot do anything without it being a tedious chore. Officials already cut out all the convenience with the exception of broken cash shop items. 
 

3.And before you try to make the pathetic argument that "well thats how the game was intended" let me just say that absolutely no one gives a single damn about how this game was "intended" to be played.
 

 

1.That's the only purpose? Of course it's an OP skill but there are other skills.

 

2.Want to solo? Play on your own game.

 

3.So basically 100 percent of the population of RO is saying that? Could you give me a list?


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#5 SaltySailor

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 03:07 PM

This will not fix the bot problem. Botters are currently visualizing the Ragnarok client and then separately injecting the packets to bypass EAC. If anything, this will encourage people to bot as they are less effective when playing legitimate. Look man, this honestly seems like you're just upset that other people are dual clienting.

 

The other issue you raised was people locking down a map with dead/play dead character. This should be considered abuse plain and simple. Those dead accounts are probably not even running off of actual instance of Ragnarok and are most likely bots.


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#6 MaronaPossessed

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 03:11 PM

This will not fix the bot problem. Botters are currently visualizing the Ragnarok client and then separately injecting the packets to bypass EAC. If anything, this will encourage people to bot as they are less effective when playing legitimate. Look man, this honestly seems like you're just upset that other people are dual clienting.

 

The other issue you raised was people locking down a map with dead/play dead character. This should be considered abuse plain and simple. Those dead accounts are probably not even running off of actual instance of Ragnarok and are most likely bots.

 

How does it encourage botting when you can't dual client? That's like botting with your sader without your priest assisting you.

 

Also, I'm not upset. I'm just presenting the benefits.

 

And last time I checked those characters, they were not bots.


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#7 ChakriGuard

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 03:13 PM

While I agree with you that multi clienting is bad, you cant stop people from multi clienting. Is there such a way to do so? I doubt it. If you wanna stop bots, easy ... bring 3rd classes and instance! Bots can bot worthless field loots all they want hahaha xD

 

After reading OP, more reasons why no Cash items are bad. People just exploit F2P maps regardless and people will also quit. You dont need OCPs to make people quit in RoT  :Emo_12:  :Emo_12:  :Emo_12:


Edited by ChakriGuard, 24 March 2020 - 03:17 PM.

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#8 SaltySailor

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 03:17 PM

How does it encourage botting when you can't dual client? That's like botting with your sader without your priest assisting you.

 

Also, I'm not upset. I'm just presenting the benefits.

 

And last time I checked those characters, they were not bots.

 

I'm glad you asked.

 

I will admit that I am biased. I dual client a priest to support my killers while I play. While doing this I am currently playing really only one character. Now say that you take my priest away from me. That means I will then be forced to play with a party, which I can almost guarantee that parties do not want to farm hours of low level monsters searching for gear, which then means that it is now going to take me much longer to find the item that I am looking for.

 

Now take the botter. A good botter can run upwards of 20x accounts farming multiple spots all at the same time making way more than I can solo. So let me ask you... Why would/should I play legit when those that are not are gaining so much more than me?


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#9 MaronaPossessed

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 03:20 PM

I'm glad you asked.

 

I will admit that I am biased. I dual client a priest to support my killers while I play. While doing this I am currently playing really only one character. Now say that you take my priest away from me. That means I will then be forced to play with a party, which I can almost guarantee that parties do not want to farm hours of low level monsters searching for gear, which then means that it is now going to take me much longer to find the item that I am looking for.

 

Now take the botter. A good botter can run upwards of 20x accounts farming multiple spots all at the same time making way more than I can solo. So let me ask you... Why would/should I play legit when those that are not are gaining so much more than me?

 

The first paragraph is a good argument to be honest.

 

The second, however, that would probably be impossible if the 1 connection per IP worked per character. Also, are you saying that you're not playing legit?

 


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#10 SaltySailor

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 03:27 PM

The first paragraph is a good argument to be honest.

 

The second, however, that would probably be impossible if the 1 connection per IP worked per character. Also, are you saying that you're not playing legit?

 

I play the game legit, but that doesn't mean I am ignorant to how bots work. WP does not limit the number of accounts per IP. I would really love to see more effort invested in blocking malicious play than blocking someone from running two accounts.


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#11 MaronaPossessed

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 03:29 PM

I play the game legit, but that doesn't mean I am ignorant to how bots work. WP does not limit the number of accounts per IP. I would really love to see more effort invested in blocking malicious play than blocking someone from running two accounts.

 

If that was the bottom line in the end or a pick your poison, I agree with you there.


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#12 5584171015142815377

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 03:56 PM

1.That's the only purpose? Of course it's an OP skill but there are other skills.

 

2.Want to solo? Play on your own game.

 

3.So basically 100 percent of the population of RO is saying that? Could you give me a list?

 

You are missing the entire point. The point is by making dual client against the rules you are eliminating how players have adapted and played the game over time. There IS an optimal way to play this game, and with how limited our time is as adults the last thing we want to do is be forced to play like lazy noobs because someone cried about dual clienting.

 

Your second point shows how out of touch you are with the game of Ragnarok Online. You are probably a player who cries about not being able to make money but refuses to make a farming class. EVERY player will play solo at SOME point. That's a fact. And some people start out playing Ragnarok solo as well. I was mostly a solo PVM only player when I first played, I grew from that with the people I met over time and got into PVP/WOE and even ran my own guild for awhile. But I started as a solo player. To dismiss solo players to go play a different game is a joke in itself. Without those solo players we'd have no economy to buy things from so good luck farming literally every card yourself at 1x rates on an FS priest. 

Also this game was designed for much more than the population we have. Even with this being one of the most populated servers right now, its a far cry from the glory days of Ragnarok. Consistently finding parties, people to play with, all that is a thing of the past. Almost every player would love that, but its 2020, not 2004. This game is old and long dead. Those of us that play wanna make the best of it. 
 

And obviously not 100%, but obviously the vast majority of current Ragnarok players are dual clienting or you wouldn't be crying about banning us so you could find someone to play with. Or you could ya know, socialize. 


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#13 Alexsyko

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 04:05 PM

In all seriousness though. Whats the point of posting this NOW? Were 3-4 months into this server. A huge change like this would possibly kill the server and then you and who ever else wants this idea can play here with the bots while everyone else noped out.


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#14 VModCinnamon

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 04:18 PM

Greetings,

While the subject is highly sensitive, I'd ask users who wish to engage to respond in the most appropriate manner. If you however, chose to insult, call out and bait into drama your posting account will be suspended without notice. Couple of posts had to be edited and removed already, so let it to be the last.


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#15 MaronaPossessed

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 04:46 PM

The point is by making dual client against the rules you are eliminating how players have adapted and played the game over time. There IS an optimal way to play this game, and with how limited our time is as adults the last thing we want to do is be forced to play like lazy noobs because someone cried about dual clienting.

 

Your second point shows how out of touch you are with the game of Ragnarok Online. You are probably a player who cries about not being able to make money but refuses to make a farming class. EVERY player will play solo at SOME point. That's a fact. And some people start out playing Ragnarok solo as well. I was mostly a solo PVM only player when I first played, I grew from that with the people I met over time and got into PVP/WOE and even ran my own guild for awhile. But I started as a solo player. To dismiss solo players to go play a different game is a joke in itself. Without those solo players we'd have no economy to buy things from so good luck farming literally every card yourself at 1x rates on an FS priest. 

This game is old and long dead. Those of us that play wanna make the best of it. 

The first part I understand. Time is an issue and you want to get the most of it.

Second, no. I've been playing RO on and off for around 2 decades. Various servers, including this one. Plus, I like the challenge of doing this. Most will disagree with it of course, like the majority of you disagree with banning dual clienting.

Last, it's not dead. There is still a real life market for them-botting and business...and both. And yes, you want to make the best of it. That is understandable and another good point to not ban dual clienting.

 


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#16 Minabe

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 04:52 PM

1.That's the only purpose? Of course it's an OP skill but there are other skills.

 

2.Want to solo? Play on your own game.

 

3.So basically 100 percent of the population of RO is saying that? Could you give me a list?

It all can be basically put into 2. I already am playing my own game, with dual client, mind you.


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#17 ElenaGilbert

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 05:44 PM

If this does put in place, how is it going to enforced?

How can a couple (gf/bf or husband/wife) play together in same households if theres gonna be ip restrictions?

Theres really no reason to not allowed to dual clients. The people thate camping certain map, they are not alone either. So even if u put dual clients restrictions, they will still have more advantage cuz they not playing alone lol.

My point is, stop making excuse for being bad at the game. I hate the cant beat em? Ban em type of strats. Everyone has the ability to dual client and if u chose not to, well thats your choice
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#18 Nirvanna21

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 06:53 PM

Personally, my only issue is having no safe way to then transfer zeny and items between accounts/characters.

 

As for another more common reason, certain instances require you to have at least two people online to enter (for example, Endless Tower). That would also be a bit annoying.


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#19 Boyeteers

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 06:59 PM

with those rich kids these days, they have one desktop and one laptop which you can access dual accounts.


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#20 abui951

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 08:01 PM

with those rich kids these days, they have one desktop and one laptop which you can access dual accounts.

^Me

I have 3 notebooks up vending 24/7 thats 6-8 accounts!

Then i have my PC that only has 2 up


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#21 yamasakai90

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 09:24 PM

My only usage for dual clienting is:

1. Warp Slave

2. Alt to open Endless Tower

3. Vend (Yes we have offline vend buy its 4 items only [I heard its being bumped up to 5, not sure]

4. Feed pets.v<- Currently the main thing actually.

 

Party wise i still prefer having actual support players if we are going as a party. Although i know people who are casually sitting down and may give me warps, i feel bad if i keep bugging them to warp me to a certain maps.

 

Also.... If people want to dual client, they will always find a way. I.e using an old laptop to play on another client and then teethering it using mobile internet while the main one uses wifi (landline). 

Having IP checks might prevent people in the same household from playing at the same time too. (Not sure how accurate is this but some places only allows one connection per internet line, :rolleyes: )

 


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#22 MrNaise

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 10:04 PM

Dual Client is Fine, Multi-Client is Bad. I dual client most of the time specially doing OGH for more coags, i also dual client when passing equips to one account as some equps cant be rodex. I agree leaving some chars to camp on mvp hotspot is bad as it gives unfair advantage to other player, but to generalize dual-clienting as bad and need to be banned, that is where i disagree.


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#23 ChakriGuard

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 10:12 PM

Multi client ... wait until we get NOGH and most vets probably wont even play with other people. They will probably solo and bring 11 or 12 alts with them ... then get bored of this online chores and request a new content  :heh:  :heh:  :heh:


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#24 AlsonFam

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 11:14 PM

Nobody in these days will go to prontera and ask which 1st class wanted to team up and lvl up together. Or ask which 1st class wanna get helped to lvl up. Most of the people just dual client and auto follow their another accounts to lvl up. 


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#25 bearl

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 11:48 PM

ideally should this be done, this will happen.

 

if you dont tell warpportal how to achieve this,

this is just another wasted effort post.

 

the contents are all idea. 

 

or you want to fall back to old times, where it's encoded in the exe to prevent dual client?
it's just a matter of days someone finds the hex string to enable dual client again.
so that it benefit the cheaters more?
 

then again. if !

if warpportal happen to be able to ban dual client, by all means go ahead.
if removal of dual client in game caused inconviences to consumers and consumers left.
will you advertise and pay for warpportal wages?

 

just so you know.
there isnt a link between dual client and bots

the absence of dual client does not deters bots
dont try and force it.

 

blame RMT for bots.

bots only exist for profitability.

 

remove the potential profits from bots you're done.
which. is not in pre-renewal ragnarok context.

so fall back to your hard effort reporting bots and getting the team to ban


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