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Community Headgear Vol 2, Results + Conditions


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#26 aTID2

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 04:52 AM

An old hat being underwhelming doesn't mean the new hat has to boost the same skill in a more significant manner. Old hats will be revisited.
 

 

so new hat is underwhelming ,so WP need to revisited again? 

 

I just said making new hats that useful enough to not to balancing again that the key. So WP not to just revisited again and again like Black Ribbon.

 

If then why not making two hats difference, one for spear and one for sword.


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#27 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 04:52 AM

using other classes as a potential limit for comparison is fine, but that just leads to trouble in designing the hats.
If everything has to be at X skill level, some skills would need a 10000% boost or higher. Thats why making the hats good in their own class perspective is a more consistent and reasonable approach. I don't need metalic sound to hit as hard as MA, but it could be at a similar place to severe rainstorm+double strafe spam.

 

I'm not exactly saying that other skills will have to be at MA level. The whole point of me bringing MA up is to preemptively remind that skill % boosts shouldn't be too weak (or god forbid we have idiots calling x or y in a new HG too OP too easily).

 

Btw, that earth drive is still only 1m (5hits), which is half of what chak talks about. Well-geared MA without megs is around 6-7M btw (before dark claw).


Edited by blackCROSSCY, 23 May 2020 - 04:56 AM.

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#28 3505170703074552307

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 04:54 AM

Ok my bad, it’s possible then. Can you do 3m? What’s the highest ED you can do btw because I’m very curious why do people want to compare ED to MA.

1.8m per ED give or take,  :heh: still stupid with inspi backlash. I dont think its even worth to compare.


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#29 Ashuckel

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 04:56 AM


If then why not making two hats difference, one for spear and one for sword.


thats what people are proposing in this thread. We can use more variety than a Black Ribbon 2.0

-

you can use ED 3.5x more often than MA, so it only needs to deal slighly more than 1/4 it's damage for them to be on par dps wise.

Anyways that aint the point of this thread.
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#30 ChakriGuard

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 05:06 AM

1.8m per ED give or take, :heh: still stupid with inspi backlash. I dont think its even worth to compare.


Tbh, the ring came out after 2018 when I started my salty rebellion period, which means, I haven’t logged in game to test anything since. So yes, I’ve not tested ED with the rings lol. But I’ve watched quite a few of ED videos.

Edited by ChakriGuard, 23 May 2020 - 05:09 AM.

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#31 aTID2

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 05:12 AM

thats what people are proposing in this thread. We can use more variety than a Black Ribbon 2.0

-

you can use ED 3.5x more often than MA, so it only needs to deal slighly more than 1/4 it's damage for them to be on par dps wise.

Anyways that aint the point of this thread.

 

how ? Its still tbd. Black Ribbon just put all rk builds to corner.

 

all idea just "You have Black Ribbon" ,If we have good enough IB hat why I have to making new ib hat? 

 

also blackCROSSCY will not making sonicwave hat, and ChaoticRK will not making new ib hat too.


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#32 WolfTri

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 05:26 AM

You’re missing out on the fact that MA still frees up 7-8 slots for weapon, which is something nothing else with high skill% has. ThAt earth drive (arguably strongest before the skill patch), has its percentage after filling up the weapon slots, which means that’s it for final damage. MA at its 60,000% average goes to >150,000% if you count in weapon slots used for damage like for earth drive etc. And then there’s dark claw for 2.5X after that. Arguably i’ll say that GX’s offensive feature means it has its 7-8 slot and dark claw, so putting any other class with w60,000% only will have 2-4 slots and no mega 2.5x steroid.

I am certain that this new community hg is to bring up other classes power lvl to comparable levels because camp doesn’t want to nerf (and instead has said something along the lines of flavor of the month due to constantly newer items). I just want to be sure that you guys know how tall that task is.

While i certainly do not expect this project to actually perform as intended, i just do not want people to scream OP too early while we objectively can see that all powerful MA allowed to boom at the moment.

If you actually read the post instead of nitpicking off the first line, you'd realize I'm agreeing with you. I'm only saying a 60,000% atk dps is not going to be balanced for every class.

As for your nitpick, sure weapon cards are a problem, but RG also has a ridiculous amount of hp, access to magic evasion with 100% uptime, 30% chance to shrug off all physical damage, ridiculous hard def boosts, access to 80% ranged reduction on demand, and accessories that grant 100 atk and 5% atk and come slotted, along with boatloads of other benefits. It is literally one of the tankiest classes around. The overall dps will still be a bit lesser than MA, but all that survivability makes it just as OP. 


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#33 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 05:29 AM

i'm replying off your last line actually. 30% of MA utility. Also, lets not continue this argument, you win. I don have to repeat my point on why i bring up MA to begin.


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#34 WolfTri

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 05:30 AM

ED hits around 87k%. Doesnt that sound broken like MA? Can you show me ED that hit over 5m or something to show that it is absolutely broke, because I can't. Maybe I've been away from iRObRG too long and im missing something. 87k% doesn't mean a thing when the final damage of ED is anywhere between 50k to 500k. You can have all possible gears in game but I don't think your ED can hit 2m or so while MA can one shot Bijou wihtout DC.

I said per second. ED is usable at aspd, MA is not. And unlike MA, ED doesn't need 2 megs or rely on a 1min cooldown single target 5sec boost to reach that absurd atk value. Also read the entire laundry list of advantages RG has above.


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#35 ChakriGuard

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 05:39 AM

Who cares about amount of HP when people finally realized that they can’t hit you if you kill them? Always amazed me WoE folks didn’t realize this fact, which worked in WoE as much as it has been working in PvM.

Access to magic evasion with 100% which is hard countered by 100% Dispel which later on or now, high end moms come with dispel. Most importantly, again why ... tank when you can one shot them first.

30% chance to block ... while it seems good. I think most RGs nowadays leave Guard at level 5 as they realized again ... why tank if they can kill first, not to mention ... when it proc, it lags you for a tiny milli sec. which in turn, is bad for you if you use OB or you over mob and die because you can’t move.

High hard def boosts, so MoT can hit harder? Never mind, it’s PvM. Sure it is good to have but ... why you wanna tank when you can OKHO monsters?

80% defenders, ok this one is good lol

Ah 100 ATK and 5% ATK that come slotted and yet, RG can’t one shot Bijou or hit 5m Cannon spear or OB.

The argument of tank quality is rather irrelevant and dull. Even in a real fight, you do a sucker punch if I know a fight is about to happen.l or if a fight happens, you should be on the offensive mode, not defensive mode. Remember, a dead dude can’t attack you rolf

Most importantly of all, if RG was OP, there would be lots of RG running around everywhere but as far as I can see, Mostly is GX in NCT, Bio 5, and other popular places. Don’t tell me people don’t pick to play most OP class, because they do. A prime example is Gen. people were making Gen army but now since the fix, only few people play Gen coz it’s not the most broken PvM class anymore. It’s GX and that’s why people are making/moving to GX.
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#36 ChakriGuard

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 06:02 AM

If MA (or GX in PvM) is strong, just say it's strong and thats it, which goes back to the original concern if these new community headgears will be OP enough to make people stop playing GX MA.

Regardless, looking forward to trying out new RG headgear, just for fun. Wonder if it will hit at least 5m on Undead. I mean if it hit at least 2m, I would already be happy.

Edited by ChakriGuard, 23 May 2020 - 06:06 AM.

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#37 olagain

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 06:03 AM

I wonder for what reason did we have a vote for when some of the hats which one isn't even chosen anyway.
The chosen hats are, ultimately, relatively "weak" in comparison to existing gears and -with exception to Ranger hat probably- does not compete with the currently popular builds within class and especially against other class.
 
 
Here's a filthy casual's 2 cents on some of the chosen gears:
 
AB :
while I agree that support needs some loving, I don't see the chosen hat being used against other existing hats especially when it seems to kind of rely on use of OCP ring.
I agree that it's better to focus on other builds such as Battle AB (as mentioned above) even if I think it will be hard-pressed to compete with the current ME build and future Adoramus builds if effects are not properly thought through.
 
 
GX :
interesting but ultimately not enough to be compared against MA build which offers better damage and AoE.
Rolling Cutter hat would've been better comparison if with some improvements on the suggested hat.
 
 
Rebel :
Hat should focus on Rebel skills. I wouldn't have minded if its something around a Fire dance combo with Desperado.
I voted for the shotgun skills which won but didn't get chosen.
 
 
Shadow Chaser :
I believe that the previous headgear, while mundane in its effects, already caters more towards caster builds which is what the 2nd hat seems to be doing (albeit out of a ranged skill).
While it can be argued that it is usable by auto-casters and there are other autocast gears out there, it would've been better for the 2nd hat if it is a dedicated autocast.
 
 
Sorcerer :
Like SC case, Autocast (and Spellfist) already catered by the first community hat.
A Psychic Wave hat seems to be the only choice left but the first PW hat -- while damage-wise it can be argued to be comparable, I believe it'll be more boring than current popular build (spirit king build) as it'll be the same 1-button masher all the same.
At the very least, DD, VS and EG are elemental skills and which will still require a little more effort (but still effort nonetheless) to work them around resistances if proving to be troublesome.
That Spirit Goddess hat seems to be the better choice between the 2 -- if not looking its absurd effects since it would be adjusted anyway, as it at least tries to avoid 1-button masher gameplay.

Edited by olagain, 23 May 2020 - 01:28 PM.

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#38 Nirvanna21

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 12:49 PM

Firstly, get your MA discussion out of here, it's not what this thread is about. if you like playing GX to farm things with less budget than other classes, do so, like those did with Genes in the past, because it's not for anyone to tell you how to play this game.

 

Now on to the actual point of the thread.

 

This stuff isn't meant to replace anything. It's meant to take a build and encourage you to use it. Not for being the best; but, for be able to enjoy a build without needing a tonne of investment. The hat should enable the build and all other equipment should be there to boost it in kind. Also, the hat doesn't have to focus on anything final class wise. As long as it is part of the class tree and doesn't double dip (yes I know about the RK hat) it is fine.

 

As far as the talked about hats go:

 

Arch Bishop

Personally, I was rooting for the Battle Priest because I agree that a tonne of FS alternatives exists already.

 

Guillotine Cross

Rolling Cutter was dropped because apparently kRO will be showing it a lot of love in the future. MA autocast was never gonna cut it because you either had 100% chance with enforcer malus (which ultimately deals more damage); or, a really low % chance without the malus which begs to question why you don't use a Sapha Cloth.

 

Rebel

I don't mind that Desperado was picked, it's a skill that doesn't get any love from kRO. I still think we can possibly do a dual build hat based on skill points invested but this remains to be seen.

 

Rune Knight

This one is trouble. I truly see it as a wasted slot considering it double dips. I get what Camp was trying to do with it, but still think it could have been a Spear hat instead and left the concept to the re-balancing of the original headgear.

 

Shadow Chaser

The top hat wasn't going to get in; a lot of people on the discord just looked at the 29 odd skills and were dumbfounded. Even Camp brought up the point of why don't you just play a Sura at that point.

 

Sorcerer

The top headgear was a cluster-_- of OP; but, after I asked the creator what his actual purpose was, he said it was a Psychic Wave hat. So when I went to Camp, I said do you wanna go with Psychic Wave or Auto Cast. And you know the end result from that obviously.

 

The votes were to gauge what the community wanted; and, to be fair they were pretty consistent until a certain Facebook group bombarded the biggest damage number hats ever on each category. But at the end of the day, it's WP that decides on things. Though potentially the post made here might sway the decisions made if people are supportive of them.

 


Edited by Campitor, 23 May 2020 - 01:51 PM.

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#39 ChakriGuard

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 01:39 PM

What you dont like to hear from me doesnt mean it isnt constructive. I also feel the same way actually lol. In fact, it is so straightforward that you legitimately cant address the issue.

 

 

You wanna make new headgears, powerful enough to make people try out other classes beside GX, but then here is the problem. MA is just so strong, whether you wanna agree or not lol. Whenever you go, you see MA. So, you wanna tell me how are you gonna make headgears appealing and "balanced" (because you dont want them to be too broken, correct?) when MA is out there doing massive damages and borderline out of the word balance? Answer is rather simple. These new headgears have to be closed broken ... but then ... you want them to be balanced. Isnt that counter productive? 

 

I mean, saying that, that MA will not be used as a comparison doesnt mean much, because people always compare everything in game to find the best ie. most broken build to play. Just like how many people are jumping on the wagon, even you say, MA isnt broken  :p_devil:


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#40 Campitor

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 02:07 PM

What you dont like to hear from me doesnt mean it isnt constructive. I also feel the same way actually lol. In fact, it is so straightforward that you legitimately cant address the issue.

 

 

You wanna make new headgears, powerful enough to make people try out other classes beside GX, but then here is the problem. MA is just so strong, whether you wanna agree or not lol. Whenever you go, you see MA. So, you wanna tell me how are you gonna make headgears appealing and "balanced" (because you dont want them to be too broken, correct?) when MA is out there doing massive damages and borderline out of the word balance? Answer is rather simple. These new headgears have to be closed broken ... but then ... you want them to be balanced. Isnt that counter productive? 

 

I mean, saying that, that MA will not be used as a comparison doesnt mean much, because people always compare everything in game to find the best ie. most broken build to play. Just like how many people are jumping on the wagon, even you say, MA isnt broken  :p_devil:

MA is its own thing that should not be ignored. However it is up to the studio to address as it is their items and skill changes causing the power boost. Generally speaking the class headgears aren't really targeting the users seeking best in slot/build gear and aren't made to compete in that sphere. Which is why MA being the best in slot/build is somewhat moot for general discussion of class headgears.

 

It would be very much on topic for discussing what effects a GX hat gets though in the narrow scope of item effects.


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#41 3412140103193930447

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 02:10 PM

Fix MA then balance the hats,.

 

Stop the hipocrysy, MA is busted as hell.

 

Prevent the server balance going to deeper -_-s and fix it.


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#42 Campitor

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 02:14 PM

Fix MA then balance the hats,.

 

Stop the hipocrysy, MA is busted as hell.

 

Prevent the server balance going to deeper shits and fix it.

Thank you for your feedback. Player concerns about MA have been reported to the studio.


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#43 CadburyChocolate

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 02:17 PM

GX :

interesting but ultimately not enough to be compared against MA build which offers better damage and AoE.
Rolling Cutter hat would've been better comparison if with some improvements on the suggested hat.
 
RC will be receiving a lot of items buffing it together with the buff it will be getting in the future. Infact, there is a lot of items already buffing RC and we just need to get that while the current hat that made it is something that will not come to iRO even if you wait 10 years
 
 
Sorcerer :
Like SC case, Autocast (and Spellfist) already catered by the first community hat.
A Psychic Wave hat seems to be the only choice left but the first PW hat -- while damage-wise it can be argued to be comparable, I believe it'll be more boring than current popular build (spirit king build) as it'll be the same 1-button masher all the same.
At the very least, DD, VS and EG are elemental skills and which will still require a little more effort (but still effort nonetheless) to work them around resistances if proving to be troublesome.
That Spirit Goddess hat seems to be the better choice between the 2 -- if not looking its absurd effects since it would be adjusted anyway, as it at least tries to avoid 1-button masher gameplay.
 
Same with GX, future items will be something to heavily buff Pwave as kRO will have no choice but to buff it as that will be the only direction available, let us not take it away from them. On the other hand, autocast has been very lackluster and more of just a for fun/ Gramps TI hats.We need something that can be used as a staple build for instances and the content in general. Currently, the hat buffs it gives maybe lackluster but it will definelty be good once the community starts adjusting it. And No, the MNC hat doesnt address autocast needs, it just happens it gives the needed aspd.

 


Edited by CadburyChocolate, 23 May 2020 - 02:19 PM.

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#44 ChakriGuard

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 02:38 PM

MA is its own thing that should not be ignored. However it is up to the studio to address as it is their items and skill changes causing the power boost. Generally speaking the class headgears aren't really targeting the users seeking best in slot/build gear and aren't made to compete in that sphere. Which is why MA being the best in slot/build is somewhat moot for general discussion of class headgears.

 

It would be very much on topic for discussing what effects a GX hat gets though in the narrow scope of item effects.

 

Thank you for the input Camp. As you know, I dont log in to do PvM, but I do log in to open OCPs  during Firesales and Refine items during Bunny, for god knows why. So I honestly dont really care much if MA will stay the same or these new headgears will be balanced ie. not hitting 10m DPS and hit 1-2m DPS. However, I just wanted to point out the big loophole out there, that is, it is going to be challenging to get people to try these headgears if, they aint disgustingly powerful or very fun to play around.

 

I hope you can find the middle ground. Good luck Camp.


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#45 3412140103193930447

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 02:51 PM

Thank you for your feedback. Player concerns about MA have been reported to the studio.

thanks a lot.

 

The sooner it gets targeted the better.

 

it doesnt mean the studio will do something but the intention is appreciated.


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#46 CadburyChocolate

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 04:07 PM

Fair points but let's not forget that previous hats will be revisited like with the RK hat. And with the minor differences of what is needed for Spell Fist and Autocast, I can imagine that any rework for the previous hat for one build will still be usable by the other.

Although, I was to say the same point you made for autocast sorc but also including the SC instead (in support of his argument) and to an extent the battle AB because autocast, overall, is lackluster unless you can get decent reducs like those A f k people and Sura's MS to sustain the autocasting.

 

Was about to share my view on the headgears but others have pointed out things much better.

It will be revisited but they will serve different purpose contrary to what most believed with SF. Spell fist should never go with autocast, they work differently, it will mess up spell fist if you put something for autocast


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#47 Nirvanna21

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 05:32 PM

Please stop hijacking the thread for MA >_>


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#48 aTID2

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 10:07 PM

It should build hat for future propose too, So WP have less work for revisited this hat again.

Still waiting what RK hat will be, RK skills doesnt have many restrict. DB also already got what its is.

I really dont want to see C2 or trans skills from RK got buff, c3 skills from rk already weak enough compare to just there skills tree.
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#49 tlc9711LOgo

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 12:52 AM

(1st edited based on skill tree -

builds for doram are tree based so Physical,Magical,Support)

 

One hat fit all doram hat suggestion based on votes

Name and Base and Color still deciding - > Officer Dog Hat suggested tho >.< will seek input

 

 

 

Name:

Base Item:

Example Colours:

 

X

 

Class : Headgear

Position : Upper

Defense: 10

Weight: 20

Required Level: 100

 

Effects

+0

[Seafood-based skill buff]

If user learned Power of Sea level 1, MaxHP 10% and ASPD+10

 

[Plant-based skill buff]

If user learned Power of Land level 1, MATK +100 and MDEF+100

 

[Animal-based skill buff]

If user learned Power of Life, ATK +100 and Perfect Hit+20.

 

+7

[Seafood-based skill buff]

If user learned Spirit of Sea level 1,

Increase healing effectiveness for all sea-based skills by 50%

Reduce the cooldown of Stoop by 10 second.

Reduce the cooldown of Purring and Tasty Party Shrimp by 20 second.

Apply Blessing of Shrimp to all party member for 20 sec.

 

[Plant-based skill buff]

If user learned Spirit of Land level 1,

Increase damage for all plant-based skills by of 50%

Reduce fix cast time of SV Stem Spear skill by 1 sec.

Reduce cool down of CN Meteor skill by 3 sec.

Bypass 50 percent of magic defend.

 

[Animal-based skill buff]

If user learned Spirit of Life level 1,

Increase damage for all animal-based skills by 50%

Reduce Loop cool down by 3 seconds.

Reduce cooldown of Spirit of Savage by 20 second.

Bypass 50% of physical defends.

 

 

+9

[Seafood-based skill buff]

If user learned Spirit of Sea level 1,

Increase healing effectiveness for all sea-based skills by  additional of 50%,

Increase Resistance to Freezing, Frozen, Stone, Stun and Stone Curse status by 50%,

Casting cannot be interrupted.

Increase Variable Cast Time of all skills by 10%.

 

[Plant-based skill buff]

If user learned Spirit of Land level 1,

Increase damage for all plant-based skills by additional of 50%,

Reduce Fix Cast Time of all skills by 50%,

Add a 3% chance of gaining Yggdrasil Seed item each time a monster is killed.

Increase SP consumption by 10%.

 

[Animal-based skill buff]

If user learned Spirit of Life level 1,

Increase damage for all animal-based skills by additional of 50%.

Reduce Variable Cast Time of all skills by 50%.

Restores 500 HP and 50 SP to the user when a monster is killed.

Natural HP and SP recovery will be disabled.

 

 


Edited by tlc9711LOgo, 24 May 2020 - 03:58 AM.

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#50 Nirvanna21

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 02:26 AM

Can a VMOD please at some point move all this MA stuff to it's own thread.


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