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#26 jagz

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:36 PM

I would have no issues halfing all effects of the grenade IF all other classes were balanced fairly at the same time.

Untill then, Even with nades..... Champ.. Raider.. Mage... What have you, is gonna beat the bourg down. Whether in a potting environment like UW or a non like 1v1 self buff pvp. I'm in the top 5 bourg's I think, but I can get rickrolled by any other classes top 20, Or Champ's top 50.


The RARE instances any of you have EVER been stun locked 100% by a bourg is if the 35% Stun worked MULTIPLE times.

Yes, With good timing it's indeed possible.. If you get EXTREMELY lucky.
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#27 iBryan

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:40 PM

I would have no issues halfing all effects of the grenade IF all other classes were balanced fairly at the same time.

Untill then, Even with nades..... Champ.. Raider.. Mage... What have you, is gonna beat the bourg down. Whether in a potting environment like UW or a non like 1v1 self buff pvp. I'm in the top 5 bourg's I think, but I can get rickrolled by any other classes top 20, Or Champ's top 50.


The RARE instances any of you have EVER been stun locked 100% by a bourg is if the 35% Stun worked MULTIPLE times.

Yes, With good timing it's indeed possible.. If you get EXTREMELY lucky.


Oh you can guarantee that, it'll be patched along with all the other stuff. It's up to you to know how to survive in union war. 2 wrongs doesnt make a right, just as much as champ's mspd needs to get nerfed so does bourg's grenade stun. And this is pointless you're not gonna agree because you're one of the head person who uses them. and you are one of the bourgs who suggest bourgs to be better.

Edited by iBryan, 30 January 2011 - 05:42 PM.

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#28 jagz

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:44 PM

Oh you can guarantee that, it'll be patched along with all the other stuff. It's up to you to know how to survive.

Fair's Fair. If it's edited among with every other class, and they actually do a good job about it. I'll be happy. ATM it merely gives us a chance against some of these classes... a chance at best.
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#29 Gojio

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:45 PM

I would have no issues halfing all effects of the grenade IF all other classes were balanced fairly at the same time.

Untill then, Even with nades..... Champ.. Raider.. Mage... What have you, is gonna beat the bourg down. Whether in a potting environment like UW or a non like 1v1 self buff pvp. I'm in the top 5 bourg's I think, but I can get rickrolled by any other classes top 20, Or Champ's top 50.


The RARE instances any of you have EVER been stun locked 100% by a bourg is if the 35% Stun worked MULTIPLE times.

Yes, With good timing it's indeed possible.. If you get EXTREMELY lucky.


Only champs need a nerf. Other classes are pretty balanced.

And it's not like, except for champs, every other class can stun you multiple times continuously. So in theory you shouldn't need to. Raiders for example have 1 stun 45% and that's all. Yes they have a couple debuffs, but you're able to fight/run/pot/scroll while you are debuffed.
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#30 Phish

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:46 PM

Damn I sense alot of tension in this thread.


First off, the concussion grenades are overpowered but Albe you are over exaggerating.


2 second stun, 6 second cooldown (~95% success) Jagz the damage is higher than melees because it is a skill. They have the highest success and shortest cooldown, that is overpowered, yes. There is timing to use them however, as the cooldown of the grenades starts as soon as you press the key, even if you are stunned yourself and you can waste the cooldown without throwing anything.


Aside from that. Launcher bourgs are the most limited class in pvp after battle clerics, saying that other classes should have items similar to them (soldiers especially) is laughable.


Launchers can only deal physical damage, have no damage over time skill,s and the only stat they can debuff is mspeed (and a rather poor one at that). Gun bourgs/artisans are a little more versatile as they have magic attacks as well as a poison skill.





What should be done to the grenades is give them a longer cooldown so that they aren't as easily spammable (if you get ganged by people and one of them is a dealer throwing grenades, you can hardly move because they can keep chucking them).

The duration could possibly be lowered to 1 second, and have the cooldown increased a bit to 9 seconds maybe but I beleive the success rate should staty the same, as they are items that take mats/time to craft and should be useful still.


On topic of grenades, the mana bombs/explosives do absoultely nothing. The description says it decreases the enemies mana, but it really doesn't. Making these a magic attack would give bourgs more versatility as well.



Albe, raiders have two stuns and a sleep. triple slas, sucker punch and mystic knife.

Edited by Phish, 30 January 2011 - 05:48 PM.

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#31 jagz

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:47 PM

Well bourg's are pretty awful, You 4 hit even most of the BS members.

When did I suggest bourg's be better, though?

Only thing I can ever think of that I came out and said was that the Mspeed self buffs req 10 points and are bad, and just the Mspeed overall as bad.

Doesn't mean they need to change it, either.
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#32 iBryan

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:49 PM

Well bourg's are pretty awful, You 4 hit even most of the BS members.

When did I suggest bourg's be better, though?

Only thing I can ever think of that I came out and said was that the Mspeed self buffs req 10 points and are bad, and just the Mspeed overall as bad.

Doesn't mean they need to change it, either.


I've heard you say bourg was underpowered, that it would be nice to have a little boost up in skills. something like that, and we're saying to include the bourg's stun grenades in the balance patch. Not to be make it the only thing being patched.
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#33 Gojio

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:53 PM

@Phish

I admitted champs need a nerf too, I was just listing possible scenarios which I don't like anyway. I just want them to be a little nerfed that's all. I also said that they can ask for tweakings in their skill trees, for example an overtime flaming skill or even an extra stun, I wouldn't mind seriously. The more balanced it is the better.

But I don't agree that stun success rate should be kept at 95%, they ain't even a skill. And according to him, they should stay strong because they are crafted 1 by 1. I don't even bother about macros, but then buff pots should be better than cleric buffs according to this, don't you think. Sucker punch is 45% and with the current builds most raiders have atm, it's their only stun. And it's 45%, why not making it 95% then?
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#34 Viceking

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:55 PM

add c4 5k ap so we could explose champ jk lol but good idea thread :D
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#35 AllTheWay

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:57 PM

Bourgs can you use the Acid Grenade or Bomb if they want DOT :D
Not sure how much it really does over time, but :D ..
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#36 GreylaVu

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:57 PM

here we Go again give bourges a fighting chance and people complain. why should one class be able to to take 50+ of your HP before you can even target them? and when they decloack they stun you. not much chance to fight back.seems like the same old story.raiders think they should be gods in the game.leave Granades just the way they are.
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#37 Phish

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 06:08 PM

Bourgs can you use the Acid Grenade or Bomb if they want DOT :D
Not sure how much it really does over time, but :D ..



The acid bomb (dealer one) does 100 damage per second for 10 seconds. The success rate is low, probably less than 50%. Not very useful.
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#38 Gojio

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 06:21 PM

here we Go again give bourges a fighting chance and people complain. why should one class be able to to take 50+ of your HP before you can even target them? and when they decloack they stun you. not much chance to fight back.seems like the same old story.raiders think they should be gods in the game.leave Granades just the way they are.


I'm sorry, but this description doesn't coincides with raiders. And no one in this thread mentioned that raiders should be stronger.

You failed at posting.
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#39 tythemuss

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 06:49 PM

OMG! its knights turn 2 b over powerd ><, but yea all i say they should do is put more of a cool down time on it so u cant spam them... i dnt really care about the stun as long as u cant do it over and over and over and LOL nerf n a clan thats the most dumbest thing i have ever herd xD
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#40 Soda

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 09:20 PM

raiders think they should be gods in the game.

LOLUMAD http://forums.warppo...tyle_emoticons/default/050.gif
stop referring to vu when it comes to discussions that doesnt even relate to raiders.
there are tons of ghey champs in game aswell, i can't even name a few because, obviously there are TONS of them.
Seriously, ppl stop exaggerating about raider, ur making it seem like they're better than champs.

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#41 GreylaVu

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 01:59 AM

LOLUMAD http://forums.warppo...tyle_emoticons/default/050.gif
stop referring to vu when it comes to discussions that doesnt even relate to raiders.
there are tons of ghey champs in game aswell, i can't even name a few because, obviously there are TONS of them.
Seriously, ppl stop exaggerating about raider, ur making it seem like they're better than champs.

hmm didnt Know Vu was the only raider in game.what i said was a genral comment.
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#42 Gojio

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 04:48 AM

hmm didnt Know Vu was the only raider in game.what i said was a genral comment.


And it was wrong. If you think raiders are the strongest class in PvP, well then you should start playing rose a little :D
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#43 Metaleux

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 04:48 AM

Hmmm isn't it normal for the dodge class to fear the accuracy one ?
Bourgs can use grenades cause they are for dealers, like katars can use the dodge buff or the bow hawker buff.
A bourg might find it "easy" to kill a raider or any dodge based class, but when they come across a high def class he may as well scroll.
Also nerfing those will nerf artisans, and all they have to survive are those stuns.
Yes the item is OP but the class is not.
So I vote NO xD
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#44 Dusk1PS

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 06:13 AM

As far as I remember explosives were originally meant to be used by Artisans only, why has this changed? They are actually the only ones who really need them, because they lack stuns and can compensate with those, but why now can bourgs use them too? it gives them a very unfair advantage against everyone.


Just to chime in as an old iROSE player, grenades have almost always been around for "Dealer" class not just Artisans. They just weren't widely used for their material costs/time to craft per benefit. I've seen people sell these for 15-25k zulie on Leonis market but, who wants to use 15-25k per use?

Since I'm just beginning to start using a dealer(used to be a Raider on iROSE), I have been studying the Bourg and Arti builds to chose my job lvl 2 change, GunBourgs have 1 stun(60%) and CannonBourgs have 1 ranged stun(35%) and 1 melee stun (80%). Artisans have 1 aoe sleep.

As I see it, if they're willing to take the time to craft an item 1 by 1 at an expense to them, it is fair for their lack of in every category compared to every other class. Their class has one single benefit: ranged attack(which every other class does have an option to be too).

Ingenuity through crafting and technology are a dealer's asset. Speed and Stealth are a hawker's asset. Power and Armor are a soldier's asset. Magic and Summons are a muse's asset. It has always been this way since iROSE.
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#45 ChickenBucket

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 06:24 AM

bourgs are pretty crappy right now even with all 15+'s
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#46 Phish

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 08:31 AM

bourgs are pretty crappy right now even with all 15+'s



Thats part of the reason why. All of their damage is direct physical damagae and they can't lower any stats besides mspeed + no damage over time attacks. (I'm referring to launchers primarily)
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#47 GreylaVu

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 12:50 PM

And it was wrong. If you think raiders are the strongest class in PvP, well then you should start playing rose a little :D

you all act like PVP is the only thing that matters in Rose.the Number of Rose players that PVP is way less then the ones that do. first off never said Raiders were the strogest class. so that statement is Fail! i have 10 LVL 220s
none are geared for PVP. dont care to PVP. so the statement you should play Rose a little is another huge Fail
seems like every time you start to think you fail. maybe special Ed is the place for you not sure that might be a fail to.
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#48 iBryan

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 01:14 PM

you all act like PVP is the only thing that matters in Rose.the Number of Rose players that PVP is way less then the ones that do. first off never said Raiders were the strogest class. so that statement is Fail! i have 10 LVL 220s
none are geared for PVP. dont care to PVP. so the statement you should play Rose a little is another huge Fail
seems like every time you start to think you fail. maybe special Ed is the place for you not sure that might be a fail to.


Keep the grenades as it is? lol you don't know anything about the game if you're saying that, basiclly you're complaining about other classes. Seems like you have a bad history with certain "RAIDERS". It's not our fault you get taken down, its your responsibility to stay alive. a 95% stun which is 100% basiclly cause it never misses, it's way out of hand. How is it possible for a class to stun/throw things that do pretty high dmg while muted? Explain that, you're just another bourg who thinks just because theyll nerf the nades a bit you'll suck cause thats what you're heading to. How about we suggest the bourg skills inside the skillbuild to be a bit better, not depend on a "CONSUMABLE" that stops actions, and can make the "MUTE" skill look like crap. Im pretty sure the mute skill was made to keep a class underskill for a several seconds.

Edited by iBryan, 31 January 2011 - 01:16 PM.

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#49 Santa1K

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 09:53 PM

Completely agree with Phish.

Longer Cooldown.
Shorter stun time.

Flame stun burst 2 sec stun, 35% chance.
Launcher smash 2 sec stun, 80% chance.
Grenade 2 sec stun, 95% chance.

Plus from what i've noticed accuracy affects the success rate of skills.

For Pvp, I've tried fighting cannonbourgs 1v1(even with 3.2-3.3k dodge) they can get you down to 40% before you even get to them.

For UW, I understand we're pretty much always outnumbered during the day (jo/ar). But sometimes when I get decloaked around 3 bourgs, I just get dropped with no chance of running away or potting since the bourgs can just stun me simultaneously.

Don't think its cause i have a fail raider, well maybe i do have one, but i know this happens to a lotta decent-good players too.

Side-note: They also need to fix the npc in UW, and make it so that you can't scroll out of UW. OR make it so that you can't scroll if you're being attacked, or you need to stop moving for 5 sec to scroll out or something. *ahem*
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#50 Aldrine

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 11:28 PM

Just to chime in as an old iROSE player, grenades have almost always been around for "Dealer" class not just Artisans. They just weren't widely used for their material costs/time to craft per benefit. I've seen people sell these for 15-25k zulie on Leonis market but, who wants to use 15-25k per use?

Since I'm just beginning to start using a dealer(used to be a Raider on iROSE), I have been studying the Bourg and Arti builds to chose my job lvl 2 change, GunBourgs have 1 stun(60%) and CannonBourgs have 1 ranged stun(35%) and 1 melee stun (80%). Artisans have 1 aoe sleep.

As I see it, if they're willing to take the time to craft an item 1 by 1 at an expense to them, it is fair for their lack of in every category compared to every other class. Their class has one single benefit: ranged attack(which every other class does have an option to be too).

Ingenuity through crafting and technology are a dealer's asset.
Speed and Stealth are a hawker's asset. Power and Armor are a soldier's asset. Magic and Summons are a muse's asset. It has always been this way since iROSE.


+ 1 to this

Now you other people stop complaining now :D
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