bourgs should get an AP down and ASPD down while the success rate of grenades can be reduced to 60%
their cooldown can be incresed and you can craft 3 at a time (wont that be great
![:D](http://forums.warpportal.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png)
Posted 31 January 2011 - 11:39 PM
Posted 01 February 2011 - 01:30 AM
you all act like PVP is the only thing that matters in Rose.the Number of Rose players that PVP is way less then the ones that do. first off never said Raiders were the strogest class. so that statement is Fail! i have 10 LVL 220s
none are geared for PVP. dont care to PVP. so the statement you should play Rose a little is another huge Fail
seems like every time you start to think you fail. maybe special Ed is the place for you not sure that might be a fail to.
For Pvp, I've tried fighting cannonbourgs 1v1(even with 3.2-3.3k dodge) they can get you down to 40% before you even get to them.
As I see it, if they're willing to take the time to craft an item 1 by 1 at an expense to them, it is fair for their lack of in every category compared to every other class. Their class has one single benefit: ranged attack(which every other class does have an option to be too).
Posted 01 February 2011 - 01:58 AM
And once again, why aren't crafted buff pots better than cleric's buffs then? They are crafted 1 by 1 at a more expensive price, cause you need a lot more mats, and they are worse. Oh right, we would kill clerics. But you don't even think that a 95% stun that lasts 2 second, has a 6 second cooldown and hits 3k even on a 3.5k dodge raider completely owns all the other stuns ingame? A consumale being better of 8 whole skill trees, except for soldier one maybe.
Balanced much, huh?
Posted 01 February 2011 - 02:30 AM
3.5k dodge is not enough to dodge a bourg/arti, they probably have that much acc.
Posted 01 February 2011 - 02:44 AM
Posted 01 February 2011 - 03:05 AM
Bryan already replied to your post, but I want to add that you keep saying you don't care about PvP, YET YOU KEEP REPLYING AND REPLYING! You didn't say raiders are the strongest PvP class, oh wait yea, you get always owned by them cause yours fails, so I can understand that. If none of your chars is geared for PvP, you can't give a single judgement about PvP. Mind your own "I has 10 lvl 220" crap and gtfo of this thread.
Posted 01 February 2011 - 03:07 AM
Posted 01 February 2011 - 03:32 AM
And once again, why aren't crafted buff pots better than cleric's buffs then? They are crafted 1 by 1 at a more expensive price, cause you need a lot more mats, and they are worse. Oh right, we would kill clerics. But you don't even think that a 95% stun that lasts 2 second, has a 6 second cooldown and hits 3k even on a 3.5k dodge raider completely owns all the other stuns ingame? A consumale being better of 8 whole skill trees, except for soldier one maybe.
Balanced much, huh?
Posted 01 February 2011 - 03:42 AM
From what I understood, if buff pots were better than cleric buffs, people wouldn't rely on Cleric's buffs so wouldn't that be unfair to them. I don't know about you, but I <3 Clerics.
IM "buff pots" are better than Clerics too, so if you want to pay a prettier penny you can use those?
I was just saying inventions and distance are a Dealer's asset in combat since they are not tanks, healers, or ambushers.
Posted 01 February 2011 - 03:53 AM
i m gonna copy paste this straight to his new NERF CLOAKING suggestion
Posted 01 February 2011 - 04:20 AM
Edited by Metaleux, 01 February 2011 - 06:05 AM.
Posted 01 February 2011 - 04:21 AM
Posted 01 February 2011 - 05:04 AM
Edited by Dusk1PS, 01 February 2011 - 05:05 AM.
Posted 01 February 2011 - 06:05 AM
You see the Grenade as a guarenteed stun but the Bourg class stuns %s are terrible at best.
As I stated before without grenades: GunBourgs get 1 60% chance stun, CannonBourgs get 1 ranged 35% and 1 melee 80%.
60% is an ok % to stun but it's cooldown is around 10 seconds. 35% is just horrible. Play those refining chances at Crune and see how many successes in a row you get. Their melee one requires them to run up to you(giving up their distance advantage) for a decent stun %.
It is simple math. They have basically a coin flip's chance of landing a succesful stun once for one second. But the kicker is, they have no de-buffs beside mspd for cannon and poison for gun. Their other choices for grenades are just as bad. A weak DoT, a lamer mana drain grenade, or a slightly more damaging grenade.
Now go through basically every other class and tell me how many stuns, stun %, debuffs they have.(Besides a Cleric). Because it isn't in your build does not mean you do not have access to it either.
It doesn't even really bother me either way. I was just orginally posting to let you know that grenades weren't just for Artisans but always has been for "Dealer". I'm sorry if it irrated you since this seems to be a heated topic(At least in the first page). I just wanted to give the facts behind the grenades.
Posted 01 February 2011 - 06:16 AM
Ok let's take raiders for example. They have 1 stun (I noticed Plasma Falcon is not), it's got a 75% success rate and not ranged.
Posted 01 February 2011 - 06:23 AM
Posted 01 February 2011 - 06:29 AM
Ok let's take raiders for example. They have 1 stun (I noticed Plasma Falcon is not), it's got a 75% success rate and not ranged.
GunBourgs have 1 60% stun ranged, Cannon Bourgs have one 35% ranged and one 80% melee. Should I say raiders need another stun? No, because they actually don't need it. They have cloak and a couple of decent debuffs. Fine with it.
Why should bourgs get another stun with 95% success rate ranged that never misses and does high damage? Do you consider it fair?
If there's something bourgs should complain for is the lack of debuffs, ask for those then! You're not gonna fix the issue with a godly-mode grenade that hits through everything and stuns 95 times out of 100, with the chance of throwing another one after only 6 seconds.
Ask for debuffs, nerf this grenade and improve the other ones instead, so you have a choice.
Of course bourgs are againts nerfing it, who doesn't like being overpowered?
The math is even simpler now: bourgs(gun-launcher) have 4 stuns now, while raiders have 1.
Give an extra stun to gun bourgs, reduce the success rate of the concussion grenade to 40 or 50% and make it able to miss.
That'd be a little balanced.
Albe, raiders have two stuns and a sleep. triple slas, sucker punch and mystic knife.
Edited by Dusk1PS, 01 February 2011 - 06:31 AM.
Posted 01 February 2011 - 06:40 AM
Just be glad they don't AoE too like a Real Grenade would.
Posted 01 February 2011 - 07:09 AM
Posted 01 February 2011 - 07:22 AM
They have 2 stuns and a sleep.
I don't play a bourg so I don't really know how it goes, if they are good without them or not. But I assume if anything is changed on the grenades, it will change on the explosives also. And like I said, I do not know how long a bourg can survive, but an artisan dies very fast without the grenades xD since they are almost the the only things they have to survive appart from 1 sleep. They would get wrecked all the time.
Some might say artis are not ment to fight, but they are so much fun and I don't want them to suck xD
Posted 01 February 2011 - 07:43 AM
Right, triple slash has a 45% stun and is a hawker skill, I actually didn't know, but ok let's count it. And sleep is not stun, you can fight back as soon as you get hit again, but let's count it too.
@Dusk1PS I said 4 stuns for bourgs (gun-launcher) meaning that I summed them. But you're right, it becomes 5 then (3 for launcher 2 for gun) which is still the same or more than Raiders' ones. So you can't say they have more stuns. And you can't even say success rates are better for raiders, because gun has 60% and 95%, and cannon bourg has 35%, 80% and 95%; while raiders have 45% and 75% + a 40% ranged sleep.
I would be fine with the concussion grenades even if they slept instead of stunning, at least you'd be able to run away and/or use a pot.
This topic is about grenades, not because they stun. I'm fine with the stun, but I'm not with the 95% success rate and the 100% hit.
Once again, bourgs should get some tweakings in their skill tree. I admit they need it, but this grenade ain't the solution, because believe it or not, is overpowered.
Posted 01 February 2011 - 08:14 AM
Posted 01 February 2011 - 08:24 AM
The difference is, you have 2 stealth capabilities, de-buffs combined with 2 stuns and a sleep of decent %s. Bourgs and Arti do not have anything but a prayer that their natural class stun lands or rely on a grenade. If nothing lands, they are just done. Hawkers? Not so much with their Stealth and Higher Mspd.
Posted 01 February 2011 - 08:48 AM
Posted 01 February 2011 - 09:11 AM
you keep saying you don't care about PvP, YET YOU KEEP REPLYING AND REPLYING! You didn't say raiders are the strongest PvP class, oh wait yea, you get always owned by them cause yours fails, so I can understand that. If none of your chars is geared for PvP, you can't give a single judgement about PvP. Mind your own "I has 10 lvl 220" crap and gtfo of this thread.
Edited by tENLAVUU, 01 February 2011 - 09:42 AM.
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