306 replies to this topic

[Rimmy]

accept people for who they are and relax, its just a game anyway, have fun!

+1. I think we do tend to get too wrapped up in the forum "drama," although when you've got a community that's as passionate about its shared experiences as this one, then you're bound to have some squabbles from time to time. Like any normal family, we grate on each others' nerves from time to time.

[Rinami]

Siiiiggghhh Most of the people I still come on for are pretty much inactive/quit before we even get the actual maintence, and it just feels like things will end up much worse after maintence. I don't see why we had to get targeted by the goldsites when we're in a barely growing population(Once again wee're going to hit a sharp decline from another wrench being thrown into the gears of the game), and most of the players should know better than to buy from there anyways.

[HiRyan]

At least keep the consumables trade able but can't sell on market!!!!

[Riceball]

If you're going to make the insurance scroll untradable, then at least increase the chance of success for soul crafting and enchanting. >_>

[grenadier42]

gg saga

[JustinLe]

It's kind of widely accepted but not officially supported, simply because the transaction can't be recorded or monitored by the company. It's basically a "do it at your own risk" kind of thing. Vendable cash shop items was a great solution to avoiding the risk of buying cash shop items from other players, but it looks like it opens doors to chinese scammers just the same.

Making things trade-only kind of solves the issue, although to be honest I would find it a hassle to buy things from people directly. I'm pretty noob in the game and I don't know that many people, I don't really wanna go around looking for people to buy from, especially since (with the implementation of this patch) there will be no legal way to advertise the selling of cash shop items.

U can always come to me wink wink.....im not implying anything...but u get the picture

[JustinLe]

If you're going to make the insurance scroll untradable, then at least increase the chance of success for soul crafting and enchanting. >_>

I dont think they would because people would then need less insurance scrolls to get to the desired enchant number......thus meaning people using less insurance and wp losing profit

[F4llcL]

when im weapons gonna be able again?

[to0n]

when im weapons gonna be able again?

Translated: When will cosmetic weapon skins be available in the item mall to purchase?

[igozuvi]

Why not just do the level requirement idea, lets say you have to be above level 50, your account is over a month old, and you have been active in the last two weeks(to prevent a mass lvl 50 char creation spree) in order to sell i.m goods.

I like the npc idea as well for consumables so people who do not buy i.m. points can acquire consumable items at say a 2:1 gold to i.m. ratio

Level-restricted market won't work in the long run, this was proven so on Ragnarok where by nature you cannot vend or even create chat rooms without leveling. Scamming companies who are determined to penetrate game economy will use their money to do what is needed to sell. Restricting marketing to only high-level players will probably result in a bunch of level 1 characters spamming Odelia, which is worse because scammers will be able to reach new and naïve players as soon as they arrive into the game.

NPC-sold consumables would probably kill revenue too much to be an option, we do have to remember this game is essentially free-to-play. Money needs to come in somewhere.

I remember pre-Renewal in Ragnarok there was a Spambot-preventer NPC at the beginning of the novice grounds that asked you to type your character's name before you can enter the game. Could DS's system benefit from this?

Keeping things trade-only is a good suggestion.

Edited by igozuvi, 09 February 2011 - 01:29 AM.

[canajew]

Level-restricted market won't work in the long run, this was proven so on Ragnarok where by nature you cannot vend or even create chat rooms without leveling. Scamming companies who are determined to penetrate game economy will use their money to do what is needed to sell. Restricting marketing to only high-level players will probably result in a bunch of level 1 characters spamming Odelia, which is worse because scammers will be able to reach new and naïve players as soon as they arrive into the game.

NPC-sold consumables would probably kill revenue too much to be an option, we do have to remember this game is essentially free-to-play. Money needs to come in somewhere.

I remember pre-Renewal in Ragnarok there was a Spambot-preventer NPC at the beginning of the novice grounds that asked you to type your character's name before you can enter the game. Could DS's system benefit from this?

Keeping things trade-only is a good suggestion.

I don'y understand why a level restricted for Item Mall items wouldn't work in the long run, I mean unless you're making a perma 30-40 there is no need for I.M. items before 50, and in order to fix the odellia situation why not just have random bot checkers for people who are there for lets say more then 10 mins.

Also the bot checker shouldn't use your name because its way to easy to make a bot type whatever you want >.<
If we're to use a bot checker system upon login it should be a something like what we currently have, randomly generated.

Oh and for the 10 min thing to prevent spamming relogging every few mins you should have a bot checker upon login, not just character creation.

I don't see how the NPC option would kill revenue either if it was set to a lets say 2:1 ratio simply because there are more then enough people willing to buy things with item mall points and sell it at a 1:1 ratio for gold, I mean would you pay 60g for a single randomizer when there are a significant amount of people selling them for 30?

[Sakura87]

Well, its for the best I suppose.even though its very sad,I understand ^^

[Teochiu]

I don't see how the NPC option would kill revenue either if it was set to a lets say 2:1 ratio simply because there are more then enough people willing to buy things with item mall points and sell it at a 1:1 ratio for gold, I mean would you pay 60g for a single randomizer when there are a significant amount of people selling them for 30?

They only sell at a 1:1 ratio because they have to if they want anything to sell. I'm sure IM purchasers wouldn't mind selling at 2:1 also to match another ratio, especially because they're spending real money on a game and would want the most for their money.

[BigCU]

Level-restricted market won't work in the long run, this was proven so on Ragnarok where by nature you cannot vend or even create chat rooms without leveling. Scamming companies who are determined to penetrate game economy will use their money to do what is needed to sell. Restricting marketing to only high-level players will probably result in a bunch of level 1 characters spamming Odelia, which is worse because scammers will be able to reach new and naïve players as soon as they arrive into the game.

NPC-sold consumables would probably kill revenue too much to be an option, we do have to remember this game is essentially free-to-play. Money needs to come in somewhere.

I remember pre-Renewal in Ragnarok there was a Spambot-preventer NPC at the beginning of the novice grounds that asked you to type your character's name before you can enter the game. Could DS's system benefit from this?

Keeping things trade-only is a good suggestion.

Using Ragnarok to compare isnt a really good example. RO does not have an auctionhouse "Market" system like we do. Thats where the main problem is at. The best gold sellers can do on RO is make a chat room/vend to advertise their sites while here on DS the problem is gold sellers performing frauds using the "Market" system to distribute a large amount of illegitimate IM items into the market. Go back a couple page and read Hastur's post for further understanding.

We're not suggesting that NPC should sell ALL consumables. Just insurance scrolls since theyre gamebreaking if only a certain group can obtain them. Since you know RO, lets use that as an example. Do you see an item that prevent stuffs from breaking upon failure? Nope only ones that increases the chance of success. Also +10 weap on RO vs a +0 weap isnt even a huge deal since most of your damage is based off stats and cards while here nearly all your damage is base off the level up enchant. With that being said i think its totally logical that insurance scrolls are sold by npc/gada vending machines for fair gameplay.Sure this will slightly decrease the revenue for WP but it wouldnt kill it. They still have all the other consumables such as randomizers,exp potions, that stone that increase enchant rates, and many more. Not to mention the non consumables such as myhome or fashion items. They still have plenty of IM items to pull revenue.

[Maronu]

I don'y understand why a level restricted for Item Mall items wouldn't work in the long run, I mean unless you're making a perma 30-40 there is no need for I.M. items before 50, and in order to fix the odellia situation why not just have random bot checkers for people who are there for lets say more then 10 mins.

Also the bot checker shouldn't use your name because its way to easy to make a bot type whatever you want >.<
If we're to use a bot checker system upon login it should be a something like what we currently have, randomly generated.

Oh and for the 10 min thing to prevent spamming relogging every few mins you should have a bot checker upon login, not just character creation.

I don't see how the NPC option would kill revenue either if it was set to a lets say 2:1 ratio simply because there are more then enough people willing to buy things with item mall points and sell it at a 1:1 ratio for gold, I mean would you pay 60g for a single randomizer when there are a significant amount of people selling them for 30?

Make bot check occur in town, and if you fail it, you go back to the login screen.

[Endbringer]

Make bot check occur in town, and if you fail it, you go back to the login screen.

I'd rather not afk and come back to being logged off constantly.

[igozuvi]

I don'y understand why a level restricted for Item Mall items wouldn't work in the long run, I mean unless you're making a perma 30-40 there is no need for I.M. items before 50

People may want to customize their characters at early stages. They may want to buy feathers. They may want to experiment with what is available.

One of the things every business needs to commit to is never make it harder for customers to give you money. If a player enters the game and finds out they can't even buy something they need without leveling up, it will drive them away. Leveling to 50 takes a long time for me since I have a job.

Using Ragnarok to compare isnt a really good example. RO does not have an auctionhouse "Market" system like we do. Thats where the main problem is at. The best gold sellers can do on RO is make a chat room/vend to advertise their sites while here on DS the problem is gold sellers performing frauds using the "Market" system to distribute a large amount of illegitimate IM items into the market.

That's the point I was trying to get at. Because RO's system doesn't allow them to easily sell their goods without leveling, they will sit in a town and spam the living s**t out of the public chat with a level 1 novice. If DS's market won't allow a gold farmer to sell goods, they'll find a place to advertise otherwise.

Do you see an item that prevent stuffs from breaking upon failure? Nope only ones that increases the chance of success. Also +10 weap on RO vs a +0 weap isnt even a huge deal since most of your damage is based off stats and cards while here nearly all your damage is base off the level up enchant.

Tell that to a +9 KVM fist.

All upgrading in both games has huge, game-breaking benefits to the player. It's why iRO removed HD ores.

Edited by igozuvi, 09 February 2011 - 09:49 AM.

[Nolanvoid]

It's not that difficult for them to sell what they want to in Ragnarok. Even though you must meet a required level to begin vending, that is a very small limitation for the gold sellers. That was also the reason why consumables had initially gone to a non-vendable system initially. Then the sellers made an extra effort to contact users in-game. That did not stop them from finding their sources to go sell the items directly to users. The system was then changed to non-tradeable.


If the system went to bot check in towns, Port of Winds "AFK EXP" would be pointless. Users would get kicked out. PoW is currently where they go to spam as well.

[HaHexfire]

This will make things difficult for players, however I think it is fair in a way...

THQ's version made it so you had to actually purchase your own crap - which is not bad. Thats how MOST games do it anyways. IM things, are of course, above and beyond the in-game currency so it makes sense that they should not be able to be obtained with mere gold.

Besides this, the credit card fraud thing is takes precedence over player happiness.


Game ending > Players slightly inconveinenced.

[HaHexfire]

People may want to customize their characters at early stages. They may want to buy feathers. They may want to experiment with what is available.

One of the things every business needs to commit to is never make it harder for customers to give you money. If a player enters the game and finds out they can't even buy something they need without leveling up, it will drive them away. Leveling to 50 takes a long time for me since I have a job.



That's the point I was trying to get at. Because RO's system doesn't allow them to easily sell their goods without leveling, they will sit in a town and spam the living s**t out of the public chat with a level 1 novice. If DS's market won't allow a gold farmer to sell goods, they'll find a place to advertise otherwise.



Tell that to a +9 KVM fist.

All upgrading in both games has huge, game-breaking benefits to the player. It's why iRO removed HD ores.

Lol well you aren't really contributing to profit for the company by buying IM things with gold...
In fact you may be doing the company a disservice - Gravity is the one who has to incur the cost of bad credit cards, fines, fees, refunds, etc.

Oh and by the way - if you took some of the time you were spending to gather all of that gold to buy IM stuff and used it to be making real money this would be a non issue anyways.

Edited by HaHexfire, 09 February 2011 - 10:37 AM.

[Akihiro]

Lol well you aren't really contributing to profit for the company by buying IM things with gold...

This isn't about us doing a disservice to Gravity, it's the gold sellers. I, like most people, don't stalk the item mall at night for those gold seller deals. I usually buy from players who spend tons of money on item mall items to make gold off of. The way this helps gravity is that since I'm depleting their supply, the seller will buy more...which means that in reality, we're helping Gravity by proxy by buying insurances and randomizers from other players.

Oh and by the way - if you took some of the time you were spending to gather all of that gold to buy IM stuff and used it to be making real money this would be a non issue anyways.

Some people don't have jobs for various reasons, you know. Not everyone on this game is over 16, out of school, etc.

[Nolanvoid]

I meant to delete my post to re-post it with the quote, but you are right chaos that was my mistake. Though, we would still want people to be in-game than outside.

[ktnxbyebye]

more and more players tell me their quitting and i stayed im tired of waiting for the new content while instead of working on that your patch is gona do the stupidest thing it possibly can and you really cant afford to loose players the game is literally not fun when every mission map after valid raeth has no one there and you have to play by yourself or meet someone to come with you that is not how a MMO should be now its going to be even worse i downloaded the IAH version yesterday got on and it was great the ceo claims they are the global version and they dont block ip's the player base is great and i dont have to sit alone doing nothing for a hour until someone comes to a MM but when i found you cant buy cash shop items in the market i was extremeley dissapointed and wanted to stay with dragon saga now you have no advanteges and you cant even get the content on time and always have problems through all the bugs and server down time i stayed there but now its just pointless hello IAH and way to ruin the game gravity cheers!

[Kkamazk]

HASTUR why did you hurt my feelings!!

HASTUR is only the messenger, dont blame on HASTUR it isnt his faut
He's just doing his job

I tink this will block people from cheating non-related hacks or botting in game and support the game by puchasing them ex. like buying a DVD or CD

disable tradable for not allow people to sell them in market to balance 10% - 30% of the game when people bought huge amount of Golds from other Goldseller Sites.

[canajew]

People may want to customize their characters at early stages. They may want to buy feathers. They may want to experiment with what is available.

So lets bring back the newbie boxes, at level 5,10,15,20 the character can receive different items to help him along the way, and just make whatever comes out of the box soul bound to prevent mass farming.

The idea isn't that you can't use the market at all until 50 but just can not sell i.m. stuff (but you can still buy it) which is perfectly fair considering you don't even need a large sum of money up until later levels. I mean I made a new character and in no way do I like to grind, for the most part i'm casual at best, that said I got to 50 in about a week. In a k-mmo that is nothing.