184 replies to this topic

[Asuki]

reflect isnt a big deal

you mean reflect isn't a big deal if your a RG.

[Andini]

never played and never will play a rg. reason why they kill so many is that a ton of people feel it's a great idea to huddle around a rg like it will give them magical powers or something

[Myzery]

RG is insanely boring, but RD isn't terribly strong if people aren't stupid. If anything, make it where it can be dispelled.

Edited by Myzery, 16 February 2011 - 12:30 PM.

[binn]

i also agree the reduction of 60% was too much, playing a sura myself i dont die to other sura's gfist unless its +9 mace + bryn + megged. 40% reduc was fine, 60% is too much

maybe 50% will be better who knows

[antikv]

ive given up on woe....it was hard for me to kill b4 and now its literally impossible for me to drop anyone other than non transed people= =

[binn]

Yeah the weapon is the only thing that element can reduce (deviling, Raydric) but the base stats still apply to skills and bypass it almost completely.

The test we were doing is to see if a 150 sura with a mace(terrible attack) could be adequately reduced to survivable. And the answer was really a no. Some skills have a special modifier that is so strong and bypasses many defensive measures that there is no way to survive. Those are the skills that are causing issues. It happens that Suras have 2 skills like that GOH and GFist. and Royal Guards have their own special formula skills too.

As said somewhere before, the magic spells are pretty consistent (no weapon component) in how they are reduced, and by happenstance most people have proper reductive gear for those.

I tested on the server that has the most consistent WoE, as well as the most active feedback persons. Tested on Sakray would have been pointless with the 25 people that would join me.

question: if the dev team fixes elemental and racial reduction to the proper scripting, will the extra woe damage penalties be lifted? since this was a bandaid solution to the problem, if it is not changed once other coding are working, woe damage will be really bad compared to now

[Viri]

I'd imagine yes.

[Pravin]

Is this change a permanent change or only a temporary thing till they fix and balance the skills ?? Because if this is made permanent, then it will mean that although the soft classes will survive more, it also means that the tanks will almost never die. And currently, the tanks have better killing capability than some actual dps classes.

[tukasa]

WoE skill damage will be reduced further. Base damage was 60% it is being reduced to 40%, to test survivability.

WoE Skill damage will update from 40% to 50%

need The FREE skill/stat reset NPC!!!!1111

[jax5]

Feedback regarding 60% WoE reduction:

With the increased WoE penalty, I observed certain support classes to survive longer and contribute, such as archbishops and performers. I have generally heard that WoE is more fun now, from those players that were easily one-shot before (due to class, gear, or level), because they can actually see and do things besides run back from an inn.

I observed group coordination and use of disabling skills to be increased. Before, there was less need, due to one-shot skills.

Damage is still high, relative to the amount of healing that potions provide (though perhaps this would be intended).

On a 150 RK, my pot consumption has increased, possibly because both I and opposing targets survive longer. The last couple sieges, I used around 4-5 thousand ranked slims and 300ish ygg seeds per each. I also usually have isia rune and sometimes a kafra regen pot activated for better potting. I did find the last couple WoEs to be more enjoyable, though.

I think a future problem will be how guilds pay for siege supplies. Large fights are fun for many, but supply costs will probably be high as well. With the decrease in OCA price, and because ordinary castle loot is now obselete, self-sufficiency is diminished, even with WoE success. Requiring a guild to supply themselves by manually hunting and picking up drops from 10,000 mobs per week per guild member, I think, would turn many off from the game. Deflation would probably make WoE supplies more expensive in a relative sense, since vendor prices are static (mastelas, white pots, etc.).

Perhaps some WoE-only set of pots could be implemented (i.e. obtained from BG/WoE quests and/or castle treasure) such that those players primarily interested in WoE would not be forced to engage in many hours of gameplay they do not find fun (i.e. killing thousands of mobs to farm WoE reagents). Then, deflation could still make pot consumption in PvM more expensive (and indirectly encourage PvM grouping).

Edited by jax5, 17 February 2011 - 01:13 PM.

[Iyona]

I totally forgot there was going to be a dmg reduction in woe last night. The little bit of WoE I did get to do I found myself thinking...man why isn't magic hurting me AT ALL? Also, baring very few skills I wasn't being hit for much of anything. Before I was at last having to use ygg berried and pots to fight certain people. (I'm just a 136 chaser and have no go gears.) I'm not trying to break like I live so well or something and I'm also not going to complain about not taking as much dmg but I seriously think magic should be somehow boosted. I mean, as it stands I will probaly NEVER be killed by a warlock. Not unless the magic formula is reworked. I fought a 150 sorcerer who couldn't kill me either, only maybe keep me off to the side for a short period of time before I caught her and messed with her till she called me annoying and logged out. I don't really know if my own dmg is super low now or if I can still kill, since my main job is debuffing people and slowing them down.

I do however have something to say for sorcerers. Everyone is talking about warlocks in this thread. Mostly I have noticed magic doesn't hurt. If I have any magic reduction gear on I get hit for about 200 dmg after a skill. There's a sorcerer in my guild who loved his char and he's deffinately noticed he's not even hurting anyone. This guy's pretty close to 150 too and is built as a dmg char. Its a sorcerer who does a ton of dmg on MVPs and other monsters but in WoE he's doing hardly anything. I think the matk formula needs to be looked at. If not matk in general, at least give magic more of a boost for woe or no one will ever play a sorcerer or a warlock because they wont really even be slowing anyone down let alone killing. At least pre-renewal a 99/70 high wiz could make me use potions....and a scholar...well I would just avoid like the plague. Now they're kinda nerfed to sad point. I can say this from the perspective of fighting them, and also from playing one on occasion.

As for comments or complaints on hell plants...those dont even touch a character in hide. If you are in stalk you will just erase the plants and not even get hit. Also it goes away with gambantien or even magnetic earth. There's a counter for it and it's kidna simple, not to mention if you let a genetic get hell plants all over and SF him and walk over his own plant, the gentic dies.

[Dukeares]

Did they fixes getting one-shotted by stacked hell plants, GoH, the other crap in the fort??/

[Hrothmund]

how many (if any) skills ignore the actual woe reduction itself? things like GD etc?

[Viri]

Grav field? Does anything else do purely static damage?

[Aeolus]

Throw stone?

[Studmanly]

reduced by gr

[D111]

I think the 40% was more fun than the 50% but both are way better than the 60%...
(Talking About Reduction)

[Dioznitsio]

i also say the same, i think 50% is better than 40% and 60% even when i need to use more supplies at least i dont die so easily as before.

[fasthands]

just reading this thread(or page) you can see renewal running this game to the ground

[Heimdallr]

To be honest I wouldn't expect WoE to be much different without Renewal. Sure the issues would be different, but the competition level would not be much different. Before Renewal the opposing alliance stopped playing, there would still be 1 alliance battling.

Sure Renewal brought changes, some good some bad.

[Ultimate]

The 40% reduction (i.e. the first reduction we tested about two weeks ago) was in my opinion the best. 50% (the current testing rate) works too, but just to say...I liked the 40% more.

It'd be evil if the GMs didn't actually change it to 50% and were just seeing what we'd say

Edited by Ultimate, 22 February 2011 - 01:36 PM.

[fenryl]

i liked the 60% woe reduction better. Put up a poll I guess?

[Kadnya]

Please, do somethi8ng about the guardian stones HP. There should be apoint in deffending, not a snap->fist.

[Hrothmund]

should just make em same as emperium or something, since they're about as fragile as a pre-re emp.

[Viri]

They should have like 1M HP