137 replies to this topic

[Lucentos]

These small Atk weapons are intended to drain enemy`s SP.

[CeruleanGamer]

Whoever made these weapons is a freaking noob who knows nothing about PvP and WoE.

[asayuu]

Wow, the stuff able to decrease gear DEF to 1 is madness~

In the other side... SP-damaging gear? Do you know some cards known as "Dark Priest Card"? Yeah, this effect bundled to a weapon was not necessary.

If it was a effect like Rideword Hat [drain SP from damage, if you don't remember] it would be better. But then it could not be restricted to PVP.

[cybernetic]

lol... Good luck next Sat =)

+14 KvM is almost as having fallen bishop on staff...

But that new KvM staff seems quite good... then again, w/o Mdef piercing, %matk won't do much against high MDEF (INT) players.

ya keep defaulting your "almost as good as bishop kvm staff" and i'll one shot you with chain lighting while wearing a ck.

[Wizard]

ya keep defaulting your "almost as good as bishop kvm staff" and i'll one shot you with chain lighting while wearing a ck.

lol... and I don't even know who u are... sure... while u can 1 shot a warlock with no shield and 25k HP with CL, I will be 1 killing your RK's, RG's, Chasers and/or Suras & Genetics with +40k HP and 50% demi human resistance... so I guess we can call it even? lol... maybe not =P

In any case... if you have any problems with me or something... let's fix it on Sat WoE... you know where I gonna be... just don't die before I can attend you... I'm quite a busy man and have other priorities than attending a Warlock... a Valk Warlock nonetheless... lol...

Back into topic... imo, even if the Matk is quite high as 40% against demi human, the MDEF issue still there... and even with that high bonus from these new staves, KvM would be superior thanks to it's ability to pierce MDEF.

Edited by Wizard, 16 June 2011 - 08:19 PM.

[CheddarJack]

Yea hi.....

Btw durga has more attack. So does the kvm katar (which you should know i dont have). Also its not hard to get sp back with green ales. Plus we dont even know if it activates on every hit. It could be a 5% or less chance for all we know. Out of the two though if i had to use one i would use the sp stealing one, but tbh i would rather use BG katar as it is right now.

Ok i would like to retract part this statment because i just relized the first katar did defense too, which helps crits do way more damage since they are based off of defense now. Though i dont know if it would be better than a BG katar since the BG katar does demihuman damage and increases crit damage.

[Mefistofeles]

we still have MDEF PROBLEMS IN PVM, MVPS ARE HAAAAAAAAAAARD TO KILL with a mage class..... we need 1 hour and a champ needs less than 5 mins...

mage classes problems: MATK FORMULA in case of wizards and sages, hwiz and scholars, THE MATK FORMULA ITS THE MOST USLESS IRRITATING PATHETIC THING ON THE EARTH OF MIDGARD

when you reach thirdclass the main problem its: MAGICAL DEFENSE,MAGICAL DEFENSE,MAGICAL DEFENSE,MAGICAL DEFENSE,MAGICAL DEFENSEMAGICAL DEFENSE,MAGICAL DEFENSE,MAGICAL DEFENSE,MAGICAL DEFENSE,MAGICAL DEFENSE,MAGICAL DEFENSE,MAGICAL DEFENSE,MAGICAL DEFENSE

[Mwrip]

It's not that bad at all...

Claymore vs Arc Wand:
260 ATK boosted by str, vs 220 MATK, improved by nothing.
+120% damage vs +40% damage
30% pierce vs 25% pierce
Reflects spells vs... casts them slightly faster

If that's balanced to you, I don't think we're playing the same game.

Edited by Mwrip, 17 June 2011 - 12:37 AM.

[Wizard]

Claymore vs Arc Wand:
260 ATK boosted by str, vs 220 MATK, improved by nothing.
+120% damage vs +40% damage
30% pierce vs 25% pierce
Reflects spells vs... casts them slightly faster

If that's balanced to you, I don't think we're playing the same game.

Same here... I don't think we are talking about same classes at all... both ATK and MATK have their own unique formula to deal damage... you can't just try to compare effects by just numbers, instead you have to see the whole picture, we have skills that deal 120000%matk, 50000%matk, 25000%matk... trying to compare MATK and ATK is like trying to compare water with oil...

As heim said it before... MATK is quite unique and they can't just improve it carelessly, why? because of our spell formulas... having high MATK would make most of our skills way too OP... can you imagine having Chain Lightning dealing 25k ~ 35k per hit, bouncing when there are more than 1 enemy around and increasing its damage everytime it bounce? now spam that with strings against a party who's rushing... that plus Radius 3 so we can cast from quite far away w/o compromise ourselves...

Doing some testing, every 10 matk or 1% matk increases damage output in around ~1.1k so increasing just 100matk, you will have around 10k in damage increase (test it on PvP, 5k on WoE environment), that's why modifying MATK has to be careful.

What is actually nerfing MATK and Overall damage for magic is MDEF... I said it before... MDEF is way too high for 3rd classes and monsters nowdays, that makes Magic LOOK weak when you compare it with other skills... now if u halve that MDEF, the overall damage output for Magic will increase considerably... w/o having to teak MATK formula and such.

Edited by Wizard, 17 June 2011 - 01:51 AM.

[Clogon]

we have skills that deal 120000%matk, 50000%matk, 25000%matk

<.< Can you name me 1 magic skill with these mods? When did WL's get buffed to deal 10x their current damage? TV only has 3000% * 4 = 12 000%. Comet only has 5000%. Both of which are FULLY reduced by elemental resistance compared to physical skills.

Yes MVP's have high mDef but that can be fixed by changing their mDef. It doesn't change the fact that matk out puts much lower damage than atk. Nor does it change the fact that melee AoE skills have similar skill mods as your ultimate AoE spell Comet (5000%) like Overbrand (4700% at least with all 3 hits, Spear quicken lv0 and not including STR and Dex bonus).

Edited by Clogon, 17 June 2011 - 04:47 AM.

[Kadelia]

Claymore vs Arc Wand:
260 ATK boosted by str, vs 220 MATK, improved by nothing.
+120% damage vs +40% damage
30% pierce vs 25% pierce
Reflects spells vs... casts them slightly faster

If that's balanced to you, I don't think we're playing the same game.

Bowling Bash : 1,000%
Ignition Break: ~1,500%

Tetra Vortex: 12,000%
Comet: 5,000% damage

You're right, warlocks and lord knights are on the exact same system so their weapons are directly comaprable.

Edited by Jaye, 17 June 2011 - 05:03 AM.

[cRoc]

The Priest book doesnt seem that bad, it removes cooldown of very much needed skills for siege....

and i believe the "sp burn" and "hp burn" are every attack, not a chance

[Haldor]

Baffling.

[Clogon]

Bowling Bash : 1,000%
Ignition Break: ~1,500%

Tetra Vortex: 12,000%
Comet: 5,000% damage

You're right, warlocks and lord knights are on the exact same system so their weapons are directly comaprable.

Storm blast: 1000%~7000%+ depending on Int. Very comparable when they have a skill that is instant castable and ASPD spammable on a class that can use Megs. <.< Sure an average RK would not be able to reach the maximum potential of Storm Blast but even an average RK can easily get 4000%. Elder branchs are "expensive" but they are cheaper than Ales that sura's use and can produce up to 3 runes each.

Edited by Clogon, 17 June 2011 - 06:19 AM.

[Kadelia]

Storm blast hardly seems comparable... besides, that isn't augmented by these "kvm2" weapons the way you'd expect (+80% only applies to the wep atk) compared to the direct influence of +40% matk on a spell.

[Clogon]

We don't know it if only affects w.atk and e.atk yet. Hence why it is a concern... The wording is completely different from current weapons which say damage to demi humans instead of players.

[Mwrip]

Storm blast: 1000%~7000%+ depending on Int. Very comparable when they have a skill that is instant castable and ASPD spammable on a class that can use Megs. <.< Sure an average RK would not be able to reach the maximum potential of Storm Blast but even an average RK can easily get 4000%. Elder branchs are "expensive" but they are cheaper than Ales that sura's use and can produce up to 3 runes each.

Additionally:
Melee skills = Cast times of either instant or less than a second, extremely short cooldown, often just ASPD.
Caster skills = Cast times of a bit over a second (for 3rd job skills, the wiz ones are atrocious), very long global cooldown that usually prevents all other skill use.

Pre-renewal, you could easily bowling bash 5 times (for 5000% patk) in the time it took to both cast SG and wait for its obscene aftercast delay (5000% matk). However, MATK was much higher than patk, the AoE was much, much, larger, and wizzies never ran into SP trouble unless they overabused Energy Coat, ensuring that while the tankers were quite capable of pumping out some serious damage, the nukers clearly outclassed them in the killing department, and were thus useful to most parties despite being rather squishy.

Post-renewal, the spam rates haven't really changed, except that now matk is much, MUCH lower than patk, causing casters to do less damage than tanks... while still being every bit as relatively squishy at they were. Though their AoE is still much wider than the tanker skills, it's no longer by a large enough margin for any PvM player to care, and tankers have far more SP than they did. This makes the casters useful to parties, well... pretty much never.

Seriously, when is the last time you partied ANYWHERE in Renewal that you actually wanted a caster with you? REQ events don't count as taking more people doesn't lower your xp in those.

Even in PvP, Tetra is the only thing you can't pot through easily, and even that isn't a serious threat to a tanker class unless MVP cards are in play.

Edited by Mwrip, 17 June 2011 - 12:03 PM.

[Lucentos]

I`m like Bellum Bible 6+ bonus - this will make Bishops good in WoE at status recovery department, especially with latest buffs to Bishop class.

[HRdevil]

Storm blast: 1000%~7000%+ depending on Int. Very comparable when they have a skill that is instant castable and ASPD spammable on a class that can use Megs. <.< Sure an average RK would not be able to reach the maximum potential of Storm Blast but even an average RK can easily get 4000%. Elder branchs are "expensive" but they are cheaper than Ales that sura's use and can produce up to 3 runes each.

You shouldn't add god items into the equation. Not all of us have access to them and even if RK can easily get 4000% you need a good -_-n awesome gear for that 4000% be useful. What's use is a 4000% with a hunting spear with gear reduction and woe reduction?

[Quazera]

The Priest book doesnt seem that bad, it removes cooldown of very much needed skills for siege....

and i believe the "sp burn" and "hp burn" are every attack, not a chance

*gets ready to chug her pots* this calls for more people buying weight expansions and light blues~ I wonder why they implemented this type of weapon? HMMM?

[asayuu]

*gets ready to chug her pots* this calls for more people buying weight expansions and light blues~ I wonder why they implemented this type of weapon? HMMM?

Green Ale overusage!

Seriously, when is the last time you partied ANYWHERE in Renewal that you actually wanted a caster with you? REQ events don't count as taking more people doesn't lower your xp in those.

Melee Casters are the upper hand now. Fire Traps, Severe Rainstorm, and friends. [Dragon Breath does not count o:]

[Kadelia]

Seems like the intent of the new +120% damage fist is clear now, with gfist's base damage taking a nosedive on kRO as of today's maintenance announcement.

[Clogon]

Seems like the intent of the new +120% damage fist is clear now, with gfist's base damage taking a nosedive on kRO as of today's maintenance announcement.

We don't know if it is a buff or nerf yet. And it's not the damage in PVP that's a problem but the fact that it can 1 shot MVP's easily or is able to be instant casted with KVM fist and the new claw.

[Kadelia]

We don't know if it is a buff or nerf yet. And it's not the damage in PVP that's a problem but the fact that it can 1 shot MVP's easily or is able to be instant casted with KVM fist and the new claw.

Follow my logic here if (hypothetically) the gfist formula change this week is 2/3 damage and (hypothetically) the KVM2 weapon does about 1.5x as much as the old fist due to the 160 atk and 25% higher mod.

1.5x damage from weapon vs players only,
*
2/3 base damage
=
Same damage in woe, 2/3 damage on mvps.

That's a direct nerf to MVP usage without affecting woe (except maybe making 2nd/trans monk/champs unable to kill 3rd class, not that that was a concern to begin with)

Edited by Jaye, 21 June 2011 - 09:04 AM.

[Hrishi]

I don't understand why anybody takes what Wizard posts seriously, he's either brain damaged or a very good troll.

On topic, I do hope that these things never make it to iRO.