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#151 StormHaven

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:06 AM

what is this, super smash brothers brawl?

If players are making rules like this, then the game's PVP needs work. It should never be up to the players to define competitive standards in any vs game.


Actually we do have rules for pvp set by players.
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#152 Jumpluffspore

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:35 PM

what is this, super smash brothers brawl?

If players are making rules like this, then the game's PVP needs work. It should never be up to the players to define competitive standards in any vs game.

Dragon Saga does not advertise itself as a "vs. game." Pvp is a side to Dragon Saga, not the other way around. I don't log into Pvp to Dragon Saga sometimes.
EDIT: If not the players to set the rules then who? Devs? Hint: Players have more experience and more viewpoints than developers ever could.

Edited by Jumpluffspore, 03 January 2012 - 06:36 PM.

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#153 Coolsam

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:48 AM

Telsa + Netbind

Am I the only one who finds this OP?? I mean yes some classes can live this but Netbind restricting skills makes countering it difficult.
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#154 StormHaven

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:55 AM

Telsa + Netbind

Am I the only one who finds this OP?? I mean yes some classes can live this but Netbind restricting skills makes countering it difficult.


:| the only classes that should have a problem getting out of that is Summoners,Overlords,Sentinels since netbind restricts next to nothing.
Dragoons? Barricade out
HQs? Moonwalk or w/e it's called out/ Mega Drill
Ninjas? Shadow Walk
Invokers? Cure/Blink
Warmages? Blink
Fighters? Weave/ Power Weave
Destroyers? Camo/ Atropine(Thanks chi, I forgot about that skill)

Edited by StormHaven, 24 February 2012 - 12:59 PM.

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#155 GrapefruitGod

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:56 AM

No, it's not op.
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#156 xBayoo

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:42 PM

Destroyers? Camo


Or Atropine. Atropine wouldn't work if the person also has Disruption Web though. Camo? I wouldn't say Camouflage works well if you're netted since it's not instant (It's instant with Casting Acceleration / Time Reverse, though). Unless the Destroyer is PvPing a complete idiot Sentinel *cough* and the person doesn't attack, then the Destroyer may Camouflage in time.
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#157 Coolsam

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:14 PM

:| the only classes that should have a problem getting out of that is Summoners,Overlords,Sentinels since netbind restricts next to nothing.
Dragoons? Barricade out
HQs? Moonwalk or w/e it's called out/ Mega Drill
Ninjas? Shadow Walk
Invokers? Cure/Blink
Warmages? Blink
Fighters? Weave/ Power Weave
Destroyers? Camo/ Atropine(Thanks chi, I forgot about that skill)


For Overlords: You have stumble, sword dance, and gust I believe are available. Death stinger might work but the electric flinch cancels it and I never tested to make a list of everything it does restrict. Stumble would help stall some time but the telsa begins hitting almost as soon as it's set. (and settable in mid-air comes up even faster.) Sword dance will also stall out but a skilled Setinel moves behind their victim and/or out of range for attacks.

But that's just 1 class. This is an archer discussion so I guess only listing what netbind doesn't restrict is fair.

Edited by Coolsam, 24 February 2012 - 01:16 PM.

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#158 GrapefruitGod

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:17 PM

Thankfully, there aren't any many skilled sentinels.
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#159 Jumpluffspore

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:40 PM

Telsa + Netbind

Am I the only one who finds this OP?? I mean yes some classes can live this but Netbind restricting skills makes countering it difficult.

Yes. If you get caught in a netbind, even while tesla's down, it's your fault.
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#160 Coolsam

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 02:01 PM

Yes. If you get caught in a netbind, even while tesla's down, it's your fault.


Electricity flinch stops whatever your doing (With a few exceptions) and unless your movespeed is fairly high, you'll be hit frequently which allows a successful netbind.

Also not to mention moments where you couldn't have escaped netbind. Like team pvp getting locked or a fast archer reaction time after arrow shower.
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#161 StormHaven

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 02:03 PM

Electricity flinch stops whatever your doing (With a few exceptions) and unless your movespeed is fairly high, you'll be hit frequently which allows a successful netbind.

Also not to mention moments where you couldn't have escaped netbind. Like team pvp getting locked or a fast archer reaction time after arrow shower.


You see there is this thing called jumping... cause net bind doesn't have a very high vertical range..
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#162 Jumpluffspore

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 02:49 PM

Electricity flinch stops whatever your doing (With a few exceptions) and unless your movespeed is fairly high, you'll be hit frequently which allows a successful netbind.

Also not to mention moments where you couldn't have escaped netbind. Like team pvp getting locked or a fast archer reaction time after arrow shower.

Electricity flinch doesn't stop jumping. Either dash jump out or something. And in team pvp, if you're locked, you were either a goner not because of tesla/net, but because you were caught in the first place. Also, that's what teammates are for ?_? Tesla isn't that op. The only thing I dislike about it is that it lags me when it's constantly on.
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#163 StormHaven

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:06 PM

on the discussion on Net bind I actually think it needs a buff to cover more skills that it blocks that it actually does now..
I don't think you should be able to use any move that makes your character move forwards,backwards,left, or right.
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#164 Jumpluffspore

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:07 PM

on the discussion on Net bind I actually think it needs a buff to cover more skills that it blocks that it actually does now..
I don't think you should be able to use any move that makes your character move forwards,backwards,left, or right.

That's a bit much. It doesn't need a buff, doesn't need a nerf.
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#165 StormHaven

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:11 PM

That's a bit much. It doesn't need a buff, doesn't need a nerf.


It's not really a buff since as far as i can think right now it adds like 3 skills to list basically non existent restriction list on it. and still leaves plenty of options to open to get by it.
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#166 Jumpluffspore

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:37 PM

on the discussion on Net bind I actually think it needs a buff to cover more skills that it blocks that it actually does now..
I don't think you should be able to use any move that makes your character move forwards,backwards,left, or right.

It's not really a buff since as far as i can think right now it adds like 3 skills to list basically non existent restriction list on it. and still leaves plenty of options to open to get by it.

eh?
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#167 StormHaven

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:41 PM

eh?


poor word choice on my part.
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#168 GrapefruitGod

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:42 PM

Netbind is only bad if the sentinel has help and you don't; but in that case, you were already screwed anyway.
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#169 OFireO

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:37 PM

The only problem I find with is Telsa's short cooldown other than that net+telsa it's the same as other locks in team battle(except bigger range and can auto lock while you do something else, feels like someone got froged and stopped or sleeped + damaging xd). In BSQ, I think it's because of the shape of the map in lv76~80 BSQ Telsa became more powerful than it normally is, with its short cooldown it becomes crazy in BSQ. In normal team pvps, it is fine as it is, just increase the cooldown plz xd.

P.S.
Sorry xD, I meant cooldown to be longer. it's fixed now xd

Edited by OFireO, 24 February 2012 - 04:42 PM.

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#170 StormHaven

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:54 PM

The only problem I find with is Telsa's short cooldown other than that net+telsa it's the same as other locks in team battle(except bigger range and can auto lock while you do something else, feels like someone got froged and stopped or sleeped + damaging xd). In BSQ, I think it's because of the shape of the map in lv76~80 BSQ Telsa became more powerful than it normally is, with its short cooldown it becomes crazy in BSQ. In normal team pvps, it is fine as it is, just increase the cooldown plz xd.

P.S.
Sorry xD, I meant cooldown to be longer. it's fixed now xd


There's a lot of flawed logic in that post. I'll let you figure out what it is, but I will say this the only time Tesla's CD is a problem is when you're already locked down but when that happens you're screwed with or without tesla.
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#171 OFireO

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 05:54 PM

There's a lot of flawed logic in that post. I'll let you figure out what it is, but I will say this the only time Tesla's CD is a problem is when you're already locked down but when that happens you're screwed with or without tesla.

Not true with the last line, other kind of locking can be stopped as long as caster get stopped for enough time(short enough), but with tesla it keeps the opponent down even if the caster get stopped for a moment, you will easily be able to go back to do Tesla if the cooldown is over again or continue the lock by the next person, you can ofc the same thing would probably happen if you are already locked at the beginning but I'm saying this skill has the ability to be able to easier keep the person down so it is easier to continue lock the person down. Maybe I'm not using my words right but I think if I say this it's easier to understand xd, I meant when you are already locked without tesla doesn't mean you are screwed for sure, but with tesla you can be sure you are screwed unless you got a healer haha.
P.S. but as you said it's not like there is completely no counter to it, but I do think it's necessary to increase the cooldown of it.

Edited by OFireO, 24 February 2012 - 06:08 PM.

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#172 GrapefruitGod

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:03 PM

It's up the the user whether or not they want to keep you locked permanently. Just like say.... an overlord.
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#173 StormHaven

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:07 PM

Not true with the last line, other kind of locking can be stopped as long as caster get stopped for enough time(short enough), but with tesla it keeps the opponent down even if the caster get stopped for a moment, you will easily be able to go back to do Tesla if the cooldown is over again or continue the lock by the next person, you can ofc the same thing would probably happen if you are already locked at the beginning but I'm saying this skill has the ability to be able to easier keep the person down so it is easier to continue lock the person down. Maybe I'm not using my words right but I think if I say this it's easier to understand xd, I meant when you are already locked without tesla doesn't mean you are screwed for sure, but with tesla you can be sure you are screwed unless you got a healer haha.
P.S. but as you said it's not like there is complete no counter to it, but I do think it's necessary to increase the cooldown of it.




Tesla has a 9 second cooldown lasts for 10 seconds. Net bind has a 7second cooldown lasts for 6 seconds. That means you're locked in tesla for 6seconds max with just those 2 skills. when Netbind comes goes off there's 1 second before it back up, another .3 seconds for it be cast another lets say .1-.8 seconds to reach you again depending on how far away the Sentinel is. so you've 1.3-1.8 Seconds to Jump/Dash/ Use SD/Blink/ Do w/e you feel like you need to get out. The PF ground lock is basically back to what is was pre- ice continent where freeze trap was still an 80% chance instead of 60% or w/e from Ice continent gear that everyone has now.

Now if you're stand still long enough for a Sentinel to literally run up, jump right above your ahead and drop a tesla on you that locks you dead center in it and they land and can netbind you, then you need rethink your pvp entirely. The only time a tesla->net bind combo will ever work is if 1) the person is already frozen in place/stunned/flinched and/or sentinel land netbind or 2) the person is an complete idiot and stands still for that long.

Edit: There are way more devastating lock enabling skills on short cooldowns that are easier to land than tesla.
Edit 2: Tesla itself is in no way OP. It's easy to dodge, extremely visible, and easy to get out of. The combo that will follow getting locked in Tesla has been around from THQ and will always be around all that was added to it was Tesla for easier continuation of the combo. Main point people only think tesla is over powered because it has great synergy with almost all Sentinel skills.
Edit 3: Tesla's CD is not a problem if you increase it 12/13/14/15 seconds it will still be just as good as it is now. It'd be like saying Rolling Stinger for HQs is overpowered because it's a lock enabler/sustain if it lands. Yes it has a way short AoE and does last for 3seconds with a 6second CD but then again so are all the other HQ skills, another example is spark rock and magnet used separately neither skill is over powered and can be escaped, but since they synergy when used together they become way stronger than they were alone.

Edited by StormHaven, 24 February 2012 - 06:37 PM.

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#174 OFireO

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:34 PM

It's up the the user whether or not they want to keep you locked permanently. Just like say.... an overlord.

xd and I always hesitate about locking #11 got me killed always when I just leave it or storm up instead of locking in team battle, but whatever. What you said just here is true xD But I want to ask you a question. As an overlord when the enemy is trying to save his team mate do you think you can lock the person down permanently as an overlord? Don't lie on this one =P. Ofc this game is not all about overlords xd. Tesla+Net is not like it can hold the person permanently but you gotta admit it is easier for the team and yourself to keep the person down for long period of time or even till they die.

I'm going to destroy everything you just said about tesla.

SD->Dash jump out.

your move. :|

Don't joke with me please xD I thought you were serious about this topic. I thought we were talking about Telsa+Net? If I didn't include Tesla+Net in my previous post then I probably should cause Sammy and you guys were talking about this combo for a few posts now xd I thought you would knew what I am saying. Ofc I am going to dash jump out when I got Tesla and net xd

All I am saying is I don't agree with CoolSam about not allowing Telsa+Net combo? It's the same as other players choosing to lock in team battle as Nilla said. I am also suggesting that Tesla has an increase in cooldown(A while ago Nilla said he suggested to have its cooldown increase too.)
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#175 StormHaven

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:40 PM

Don't joke with me please xD I thought you were serious about this topic. I thought we were talking about Telsa+Net? If I didn't include Tesla+Net in my previous post then I probably should cause Sammy and you guys were talking about this combo for a few posts now xd I thought you would knew what I am saying. Ofc I am going to dash jump out when I got Tesla and net xd


you get tesla'd and if they pf choose to stand there and use netbind meaning you interrupt their Net casting and escape Tesla at the sametime. If they jump behind you/ run around behind you then you just dash jump out.

Fast moving+animation canceling skill> Medium moving+ .3 cast time skill.

Edited by StormHaven, 24 February 2012 - 06:41 PM.

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