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#101 codec689

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 04:40 PM

We all know if that pally was stacked, it would've been different, I can assure you that.
I think what Slayze's trying to say is, every other class has the capability to take out 3/4 of someones health.
But this totally varies between the players and their gears, obviously.
Also, I wholeheartedly think AAS is a pretty cheap skill but it definitely isn't the only one.

so true considering that daggers tend to be OP with (TR on)same with crosscuts untechable knockdown
the pally block skill that can be upgraded to 10 and nearly reach 50% block rate

that pally could of teched out of that AAS if he had a few consecutive blocks

Edited by codec689, 20 October 2010 - 04:55 PM.

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#102 ApeKing

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 04:41 PM

We all know if that pally was stacked, it would've been different, I can assure you that.
I think what Slayze's trying to say is, every other class has the capability to take out 3/4 of someones health.
But this totally varies between the players and their gears, obviously.
Also, I wholeheartedly think AAS is a pretty cheap skill but it definitely isn't the only one.

But it's the worst one.

And also, the Dragoon was just an example. We all know that Dragoons are pretty much top tier. But that's because they can take a nuclear blast in the face and get back up. Before they were buffed attack-wise, they resorted to skill locking, which took AGES ot kill anyone with since they had such low damage output. Regardless of the fact Paladins/Dragoons are worse, that doesn't make PF/Sentinels BETTER.
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#103 Paxon

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 04:48 PM

I can't play this game on weekends because I have to go to my grandparents house and you know what the graphics card name is? STANDARD VGA GRAPHICS ADAPAPTER *Sniff*
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#104 Kimimaro

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 04:59 PM

But it's the worst one.

And also, the Dragoon was just an example. We all know that Dragoons are pretty much top tier. But that's because they can take a nuclear blast in the face and get back up. Before they were buffed attack-wise, they resorted to skill locking, which took AGES ot kill anyone with since they had such low damage output. Regardless of the fact Paladins/Dragoons are worse, that doesn't make PF/Sentinels BETTER.

I'm not disagreeing with you.
I've always found it ridiculous how an Archer can generate massive DPS just by holding down a button meanwhile other classes have to spam several more skills to achieve the same amount of damage.
Making playing as a class other than Archers, more strenuous and a bit more ambitious to an extent.
But nowadays, respected high level PvPers rarely spams in a 1v1 match, so I don't think that's something we have to worry about.
However, if your gears are too crappy to even withstand a couple of hits, you can always establish a naked PvP match with tourney rules.
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#105 ApeKing

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:18 PM

This doesn't exempt it from the need to be changed though...
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#106 codec689

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:22 PM

This doesn't exempt it from the need to be changed though...

decrease in damage as the subject is in AAS on a later patch probably with the ice continent
it becomes useless to use after a few seconds dps wise especially when fighting high defense targets
anyways archer weapon damage is sort on the low end if that dragoon in that vid was stacked that damage would be in the upwards 300's

still glad im not a pf lol some mobs can no longer be launched as high as they used to lol

Edited by codec689, 20 October 2010 - 05:26 PM.

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#107 Kimimaro

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:25 PM

This doesn't exempt it from the need to be changed though...

I'm pretty sure the developers are aware of this issue, which is why AAS and Shaman's X spam are going to get nerfed.
It's really too bad they haven't done so in the first place.
Not to mention the FPS is now capped at 60, which makes killing a heavily geared player with a single launch nearly impossible.

EDIT: Oh codec beat me to it.

Edited by Kimimaro, 20 October 2010 - 05:26 PM.

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#108 ApeKing

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:26 PM

decrease in damage as the subject is in AAS on a later patch probably with the ice continent
it becomes useless to use after a few seconds dps wise especially when fighting high defense targets

I dont know if it will make a huge difference. The damage it does isn't the problem. 30% of is 4 is like 1.2%
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#109 codec689

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:28 PM

I dont know if it will make a huge difference. The damage it does isn't the problem. 30% of is 4 is like 1.2%

those 500's will turn into 100's and then posibly into nothing

and you know how much hp people get in pvp lol

unless you fight morons who just spam AAS

most of them would probably be newbie pathfinders and they already have some low damage

Edited by codec689, 20 October 2010 - 05:57 PM.

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#110 ApeKing

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:29 PM

those 500's will turn into 100's and then posibly into nothing

and you know how much hp people get in pvp lol

It will help yes but it may not solve the problem. We shall see...
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#111 GrapefruitGod

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:34 PM

Before the patch I did 100s to stacked pallies with aas and I have a +15 bone weapon
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#112 codec689

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 05:35 PM

Before the patch I did 100s to stacked pallies with aas and I have a +15 bone weapon

ouch considering AAS hits are closely based on just weapon damage and gets no actual damage modifiers lol

ape you have to consider that they know about this and will technically take weapon damage into consideration

so that 30% will carve a chunk into the overall damage

Edited by codec689, 20 October 2010 - 05:39 PM.

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#113 ApeKing

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 06:03 PM

ouch considering AAS hits are closely based on just weapon damage and gets no actual damage modifiers lol

ape you have to consider that they know about this and will technically take weapon damage into consideration

so that 30% will carve a chunk into the overall damage

Gravity maybe. But Barunson didn't give two craps.
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#114 codec689

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 06:07 PM

Gravity maybe. But Barunson didn't give two craps.

you should know that gravity owns over half barunson now lol about 50.6% or 51%
THE POWER IS THEIRS

Edited by codec689, 20 October 2010 - 06:10 PM.

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#115 Thuy

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 06:52 PM

Before the patch I did 100s to stacked pallies with aas and I have a +15 bone weapon



I did 70 to Akyrie (stacked wm!) =( with 14+ oak
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#116 ApeKing

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 09:19 PM

you should know that gravity owns over half barunson now lol about 50.6% or 51%
THE POWER IS THEIRS

I am aware of this. If I wasn't I would have never come back...

I did 70 to Akyrie (stacked wm!) =( with 14+ oak

THAT'S ONLY BECAUSE YOU FAIL THUY
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#117 Slayze

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 02:59 AM

Did you not see that vid? AAS literally took 2/3 of the pala's HP. Tell me if I'm wrong but to me, that seems good DPS.

Yea, I know, I am the howitzer in that video, if you didn't notice the usernames.

AAS is good against people with crap defence.
Against high defence, the damage drops like a rock.
At high levels of the new Drakos instance, I used to do 1 damage to the monsters there with AAS, with a lavalon crossbow at around +12.
No idea on the technical stuff, but yea, it drops like a rock against defence, I think.

Damage:
While the base damage per hit is low. The TOTAL potential damage can be insane.

Potential damage is potential. Most other classes (every other?) is potentially able to do potential damage than us in that same period of time.

Ease of Use:
YOU HOLD DOWN A KEY UNTIL THEY DIE HOW DIFFICULT IS THAT. And I am being serious with this. Anyone who says it's more than that is full of crap. You launch them into the air and they stay there. There is almost ZERO animation lag with this skill. And it will hit them even if you are off-center. Or if they are above you. It make take skill to use in conjunction with other skills, but it takes ZERO SKILL to use this itself. Anyone who says its hard to kill anyone with AAS either: A. Doesn't have a very good frame rate or B. Doesn't have enough AIM (which shouldn't be a problem for PF/Sentinel), c. Suck as a PF/Sentinel, or D. LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH. PF/Sentinels should have ZERO trouble launching anyone in a battle eventually since they have so many cast based skills. There are only two things that can rectify this. And I will mention them next.

For most skills for other classes, you press one button once.
And damage equivalent to many shots of AAS is dealt.
And then, you press another button, dealing damage yet again.
And you repeat that sequence until they're dead, maybe moving around a bit. (every 3rd class except the mages and archers have a decent ground lock combo.)

If you're going to bring up Sentinel's instant launches, which really are easy to use, complain about those directly, not their follow-up skill.

Difficult to Escape:
The ONLY things that will get you out of AAS are Impervious status (this goes for Gambits since you cant launch a Pally/Dragoon who is already in this state), Block (Ninjas and Paladins) and frequent missing. And you best have an absurd evade for that since PF/Sentinels have AIM out the ass and one or two misses wont always save you anyway. And air-teching DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK. In fact it works rarely unless they are launched so high thee are off screen. Hell you can be hit even after you air-tech. And it really doesn't matter if you do. You will just be launched again.

This is true, I'm not going to deny this.
Well, lag does get you out of AAS sometimes too. But that's not unique to AAS or reliable at all, so meh.

All I can say is to avoid being launched (or even hit by any other skill at all, regardless of which class it's coming from) in the first place, if you don't have any passive defensive mechanism.

Look, there are a lot of skills that can be considered OP and cheap. But NONE of them are as easy to use, as damaging, and as difficult to avoid AND escape from than AAS (Paladins didn't really count back in the day since they were more defense than offense in PvP, though now they can do BOTH and as you can see in the vid I posted and many others, even a Dragoon can be beaten to a pulp with AAS) Face it. You guys have been in the limelight for a long time now. You need to be knocked down a peg and you are lucky that a nerfed AAS (which is better than it was but not fixed) is all you are getting.

It's easy to use, yea, you press and hold one button while in range.
But that's after launching the target.
In 1v1, sure, it's impossible to escape from, assuming the archer has 100% hit rate on the target, there's low lag and the target doesn't have block.
In team match, you're vulnerable as long as you stand there shooting. (there's a slight delay after each shot, so you can't run away that fast.)

And since when were we in the limelight in either PvE or PvP?
PvE was all mages or jesters, while PvP was dominated by paladins and ninjas (and trappers, but definitely not ballistas). (sorry, can't remember the names for the classes here)

(Actually now that I think about it, the only one who will suffer from that nerf will be Grens since AAS is pretty much all they have in PvP. PF/ get a frickin INVISIBLE TRAP PASSIVE.)

You missed out their traps' new nuke damage. (new to NA server, at least)

And sorry, I assumed that you already knew about the future 30% damage nerf for AAS in PvP.
From what I heard, archers' AAS became somewhere near useless after that point.

And I was mostly speaking from the specialists' side.
If Barunson wants to disable AAS for Sentinels, go right ahead... (though the QQ from there will be way too much to handle)
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#118 dchenmasta

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 03:36 PM

AAS should be kept the way it is. Its an archers main skill and you can still beat a archer with super fast aas. besides, w/o good aas , rangers would just totally suck because most of their skills have a huge reload time.
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#119 Yurai

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 04:29 AM

AAS should be kept the way it is. Its an archers main skill and you can still beat a archer with super fast aas. besides, w/o good aas , rangers would just totally suck because most of their skills have a huge reload time.

Most second job classes do suck. Level to third job and problem solved.
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#120 Slayze

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:56 PM


AAS should be kept the way it is. Its an archers main skill and you can still beat a archer with super fast aas. besides, w/o good aas , rangers would just totally suck because most of their skills have a huge reload time.

Most second job classes do suck. Level to third job and problem solved.

Eh? But specialists' third job is the worst class in the game in terms of skills' cooldown (which was that person's problem).
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#121 Yurai

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 06:42 PM

Eh? But specialists' third job is the worst class in the game in terms of skills' cooldown (which was that person's problem).

HIs argument was that ranger's are terrible if they do not have good AAS. My point is that Grenadiers can do fine with limited use of AAS, example being Sheol.
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#122 ApeKing

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 01:41 PM

HIs argument was that ranger's are terrible if they do not have good AAS. My point is that Grenadiers can do fine with limited use of AAS, example being Sheol.

You cant use one person as an example.
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#123 Slayze

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 04:10 PM

HIs argument was that ranger's are terrible if they do not have good AAS. My point is that Grenadiers can do fine with limited use of AAS, example being Sheol.

Ah, I see.
Though isn't that kindda unrelated to getting to 3rd job...?
All it adds are the carpet bombing catching or the flashbang combos (which usually fail).

You cant use one person as an example.

Technically, you can discuss about the potential of a class based on a single person.
Since it's just the class's potential.
I personally think that they're just the most balanced class in the game though, neither at the top nor bottom.
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#124 Yurai

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:30 AM

Ah, I see.
Though isn't that kindda unrelated to getting to 3rd job...?

All it adds are the carpet bombing catching or the flashbang combos (which usually fail).


Technically, you can discuss about the potential of a class based on a single person.
Since it's just the class's potential.
I personally think that they're just the most balanced class in the game though, neither at the top nor bottom.

Completely forgot which job had which skills.
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#125 Tundra

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 03:21 PM

I'm sure it was mentioned already, mostly because it's true. AAS is too broken for PvP. It needs to be removed from PvP usage. I would suggest for the damage to be nerfed, but it simply won't due. Upon landing after the archer has hit you 30~40 times, they can instantly relaunch you with one of their skills, either that or they can stun you when you try to get up or knock you right back down. Basically, a RANGED character should not have all the tricks available at their finger tips. So instead of going through all the skills, simply fixing this one thing will make them more balanced.
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