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#26 Gangrian

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 01:50 PM

You know more aim = high freeze rate :# I've been hit and froze on the first hit after that GG.


...Who the heck says that? From knowledge, I have seen people stand under blizzard the entire time and never get frozen, or get hit once, and get frozen. It's still chance based.

And if it was aim based, I think more WM would have invested in AIM before the patch.

Otherwise, it would say "Freeze rate is based on caster's aim" in which it does not. It says "Freeze rate is x%"

(I have not looked at the skill in such a long time)
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#27 Kolpit

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 04:07 PM

Ok, time to give my opinion.
I believe each class should have a balance potential between 1vs1 and 2+vs2+.
No character should be weak in 1vs1, but strong in 2+vs2+, or vice versa.
They should be able to do equally well in both scenarios with slight disadvatages and advantages.

Now, every character has to be evaluated vs each of the others individually. They should somehow manage to balance themselves.
Currently... some classes completely devastate others.
To understand this, both characters have to be placed on equal footing (skill, level, equipment bonuses.)
I cannot pretend to know how to balance the characters when there are so many stats possible for stacking and so many different skills.
Ill leave that to the developers, but, I can comment on how the skills work and how they work in PvP/PvE.

I don't have any idea on how the game will end up after the patch, so, ill coment on the current abilities like this post is initially intended to, ignoring if the skills will disapear or change.

Magician:

Most of the magician class skills are pretty weak and are intended to just be usefull for PvE to reach the lvl 20.
While at the same time they set the basis for the magician's build.

Point Buster:
Well, a slight reduction to the cast time would be helpfull. Instant cast would be stupid, so just very fast is ok. The amount of damage it deals is ok for a lvl 1-20 character. in the future it is meant to be usless, maybe a wider range and speed upgrade could help a little in its future.

Air Combo:
I agree with a previous post that it should be renamed. It is very usefull, but it is not meant to be easy to use, requires good timing.
Maybe it would be used more if it could slightly follow its target, sort of like a priest's chain-lighning skill, but instead of the ground, in the air, and with only three shots, instead of infinite lock.

Meteor Fall:
The improvement to Point Buster. At a certain lvl it sends all enemies in the area of impact to the air, exactly to the height of the Air Combo for a follow up. Maybe it should have a higher critical rate.

MP Potion Maximization:
Well... usefull, should cost less skill points for using lvling it, and also have an even higher MP recovery. If not, its not used much and the difference is not even high enough to be used from lvl 1-20, its better to buy extra potions and continue on.

Magic Enhancement:
Well, +100 at lvl 5 is a lot of extra damage at lower levels, but, it could be changed to +1%,2%,3%,4%,and 5% of the max. Or, it could be given an added passive buff to all spells considering the skills name. Maybe higher critical rate for all spells, or higher chances for spell's debuffs to work, or, reduced animation time considering they are taking away animation canceling.

Focus:
Excellent!
Every skill in the game has the condition: X% of maximum weapon atack/magic atack.
This should be changed to X% of character's maximum magical atack/physical atack.
That way this skill by raising the Max % of the characters magical atack, it would also raise the skill's powers which makes sense.

Slow Heal:
Excelent, due to massive complaints maybe should be reduced to 30% of maximum hp, but seriously, it takes a whole 30 seconds to heal, and it helps others.

Heal Thy Self:
Excelent, it heals you instantly with very few animation. Considering that it takes away a whole % of the MP no matter the lvl, the X% of weapon magic atack that it is based on should be increased.

Re-Launch:
Well... usefull, but its more usefull to repeat a skill that launches rather than use this one... specially for mages, other classes would benefit so much more.

Fortress:
This skills is quite usefull for hitting single enemies, and enemies that cant be launched into the air, with hard powerfull blows.
It is also instant to cast. For PvP, it should knock down enemies and intercept them if they are in a dash-jump like warrior's sword dance skill.

Speeding Bullet + Cannon Upgrade:
These two skills should get mixed into a single one. The cannon should go faster, farther, as well as cause bleeding.
The speed would be excelent for pvp as well as the Bleeding. Currently the Bleeding works only at lvl 1 for some reason. This should be increased.
This skill at lvl 5 should cause lvl 5 Bleeding, with atleast 65-85 damage twice per second instead of 33.

Now for the upgrade to Battle Mage:

Battle Hit/Wound (or something like that):
Sucks a lot, I know it is meant to stagger enemies in front of the caster but... if it were like 300% magic damage sure, but, its not worth it. And it stops the character from moving at close distance. Besides the power boost... if it caused bleeding or slowdown... maybe it would be used more.

Spear Mastery:
It should not have the previous skill as a requirement, besides that its cool, maybe instead of physical boost, some extra magic enhancement.
Imagine if it could increase all skills damage based system +10% of max magic atack.

Fire Symbol:
Perfect as it is. Maybe a few animation glitches, in PvP, sometimes it hits oponents and doesnt shock them, or it does but they keep moving slighty through it. But its practically perfect.

*The FireSymbol Passive:
No problem.

Tornado:
It is a cool skill, but the animation time is so high that the enemy is alredy on the ground by the time you finish casting so if cannot be used for air combos much and while you run up to the body he might alredy be up so its not as usefull. Agaisnt the mobs it's the same, maybe it's good because it stops them from atacking?. I would make it bigger in circular range, or maybe it could stun the targets instead of launching, or to make sense, stun for a sec and then launch, therefore there is time to follow up. In a frenzy of creativity, I could suggest for it to work like a mine. But that is nonsense.

Blizzard:
Perfect, maybe it could make the initial hit little bit faster, and also increase freezing chance by 10% more, since there are no real ways to stop other players from moving unless they dont know how your spells work and jump into them, or if they rush in towards you, but honestly, if you play a warmage for a while and the fight them, you know how to avoid being in range of ALL their atacks, its just a matter of being carefull.

Mana Shield:
It is very good, specially during the battlemage times, afterwards at lvl 60's other people deal so much damage that the MP runs out very very fast.
Maybe it should consume less MP per damage absorbed, but it might be OP for the lower levels.

Cloud Kill and Poison Cloud skills:
Well, the poison last for quite some time which serves as a smokescreen, also it staggers when it hits, which is good too. The only thing I could complain for it is the long animation time to make it look like a fart. Also, it should be able to critical. To make it a usefull skill for pvp, the buff should get a much stronger poison effect, like 150 damage per second at lvl 5 and atleast 30% more damage.
Lower skillpoints cost would be excelent.

Magic Missles:
Nothing to complain about these. Maybe a bigger explosion radious, just a bit.

Now for the Warmage change:

Lower MP consumption skill:
Why not?

Convert Resources:
Sure, perfect.

Mirror Image:
Make the blocked atacks ignored in stagger animation since the skill has such a high cooldown.

Disease:
Cool, faster cast rate since it misses?

Fire Ink:
Make it decrease aim by atleast 70% at lvl 5, since mages dont stack evade and most high lvl people have so much aim that 30% less lets them hit anyways.
Increase the effect by atleast 10 more seconds and make it 100% sure that it will hit, since the animation time is so long that it takes ages to move after using it, and if it hits and it is 30%, you get hit back a lot more times by other's combos. Maybe even infinite stun locked.
This becomes the most useless skill if it misses or doesn't work like it should.
We need skills that work if we want to have other options to win besides luckyly freezing our oponents or healing till they run out of MP after 10 mins.

Snow Blues:
Perfect, fast animation after casting, used preentively, its not meant to be used while being seen.

Another mastery?:
Cool. Even more, if damage of skills is based on the character's magical atack and not the weapons magical atack, since the character's includes buffs while the weapon doesnt.

Backdraft:
Perfect but mp burn effect should be increased to 20 per sec.

Spiral cannon:
Should have faster animation and maybe cause burn or bleeding since you just got pierced by a giant laser. Withouth these its very useless.
It could also fire in diferent directions.

Energy Buster:
I believe the blind efect should last for a long time since it is so hard to hit with this skill. And, the blind efect is not working well, it should reduce aim to 0. Not lower it a bit, I still get hit by blinded stuff which makes you wonder, why did I get this skill for?.
Also, after using it, it takes a while to move, fix it, its too much for any atack at pvp.

Thunder Break:
Increase damage by atleast 15% more and even more per lvl. Also, increase its duration to 5 min or something like that.

Meteor strike:
It is so slow.... and costs so much Skill points... for a single big hit... make it 1500% magic damage or something like that. It even has cast time.
It should be able to do something big. Worth it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well... thats it.
Some might say: hey, you want all the skills to be cool.
Yes I do. And it should be for all characters. That is what creates a dynamic game. With diferent options.
That way I will want to spend skill points in every skill and run out, then I'll have to actually think through to which ones I want and at which level. Currently, all characters have a set of 'useless skills' that are ignored by all, therefore, we all look alike and strive for the same things. By giving all characters variety, criticals, dodging, suport vs damage, status efects vs healing, aim vs inteligence, hlt vs agility. These choices will become diferent for each player.

Well, its my opionion in any case. I hope to see other's Skill reviews.

PS:
I'll change this so that it is updated when all skills change after update.
Also it would be cool if we got new very diferent PvP maps, that have obstacles, places where we could fall and climb, and thin passageways.
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#28 iKnowMyABCs

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 10:44 PM

Blizzard:
Perfect, maybe it could make the initial hit little bit faster, and also increase freezing chance by 10% more, since there are no real ways to stop other players from moving unless they dont know how your spells work and jump into them, or if they rush in towards you, but honestly, if you play a warmage for a while and the fight them, you know how to avoid being in range of ALL their atacks, its just a matter of being carefull.

Mana Shield:
It is very good, specially during the battlemage times, afterwards at lvl 60's other people deal so much damage that the MP runs out very very fast.
Maybe it should consume less MP per damage absorbed, but it might be OP for the lower levels.



Uh no, just because it's "hard" for you to get someone in a blizzard that doesn't mean it's impossible. In fact, playing with my level 40 warmage, it's easy to catch people in a blizzard by just predicting their jump.


Maybe you got something mixed up because mana shield early game is very punishing for bm because it takes out so much mana.
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#29 Kazra

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 12:06 AM

Damage of skills are based off character total ATK and MATK values... not just the weapon.
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#30 Gangrian

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 12:10 PM

Slow heal is fine as is, however it should be changed in PvP.

The skills should work different in PvP and PvE. They keep on neglecting that PvE and PvP are different when they make these skills.

Blizzard is hard to hit people with, but I do agree that it should hit faster. I am fine with the freezing rate as is, though I won't complain if it's boosted. :blink:

Make the last hit from Battlehit not knock them back on the third hit, or cause some status affect?

If they were to include many of these handy debuffs to warmages, I would see no issue in having a slow coming out time. Because then when ever you hit someone, they are guaranteed to get some sort of status debuff. Which would be nice.

Since priests are the new warmages, why not just have warmages skills cause debuffs. Lol.

I like that idea of many of the moves causing status affects.

Oh, and the avatars should actually absorb knock down and launchers as well.
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#31 codec689

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 12:20 PM

Slow heal is fine as is, however it should be changed in PvP.

The skills should work different in PvP and PvE. They keep on neglecting that PvE and PvP are different when they make these skills.

Blizzard is hard to hit people with, but I do agree that it should hit faster. I am fine with the freezing rate as is, though I won't complain if it's boosted. :blink:

Make the last hit from Battlehit not knock them back on the third hit, or cause some status affect?

If they were to include many of these handy debuffs to warmages, I would see no issue in having a slow coming out time. Because then when ever you hit someone, they are guaranteed to get some sort of status debuff. Which would be nice.

Since priests are the new warmages, why not just have warmages skills cause debuffs. Lol.

I like that idea of many of the moves causing status affects.

Oh, and the avatars should actually absorb knock down and launchers as well.


you already have status debuffs with penguin ice status and etc and pepper which inflicts burn status that removes health and mp overtime and one of those lazers that cause blind not to mention disease
hell you can use ink if the targets frozen

warmage already has alot of debuffs hell the warmage is the class with the most debuffs
and magic defense is naturally lower on all the non magical classes so you naturally do more damage on the other non magical classes aside from paladins of course

the warmage just needs a slow heal tweak
and also on the next patch skills are able to gain effects as they are leveled with skill cards such as for example the pally block skill

having mana shield which absorbs about 30% of all damage and slow heal which can heal individual and multiple people and resource conversion(which ironically is more suited to a suppourt class such as a priest is in the warmage class) a which allows warmages to gain back mp in conjunction with slow heal there going to be fine they don't need more debuffs they just need some skills to be tweaked

one of these things have already been resolved by introducing the wm skills to be dependant on aim + the ability for the skills to do criticals to compensate for misses which is fine

given certain conditions warmages can PVE and pvp more effectively
than other classes that may be suited for pve or are better for pvp
this is one of the few classes than can do both without failing too hard

Edited by codec689, 29 August 2010 - 02:20 PM.

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#32 Gangrian

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 07:38 AM

warmage already has alot of debuffs hell the warmage is the class with the most debuffs
and magic defense is naturally lower on all the non magical classes so you naturally do more damage on the other non magical classes aside from paladins of course

given certain conditions warmages can PVE and pvp more effectively
than other classes that may be suited for pve or are better for pvp
this is one of the few classes than can do both without failing too hard



However unloading them onto a person can cause a bit of a problem in PvP. They either have to be frozen, or locked in place for them to be applied. Many of them are useful however for catching though. But only semi. Which is pepper. However what about the battlemages. They just have blizzard. And FS. Maybe cloud kill. I guess if you are including launches as debuffs then tornado as well.

And warmages can't do PvP all that well there are classes that can do both better(Pallys, Myrms, Nins, Priest's), at least 1v1. But they can do PvE effectively. Maybe. I know that if I get hit pre patch, my FS is still coming out, and it was how I escaped a number of locks from monster lag. However, with the new patch, if I get hit, then the skill does not go out. Unless of course they changed that in the new patch. Lol.
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#33 codec689

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 10:33 AM

However what about the battlemages. They just have blizzard. And FS. Maybe cloud kill. I guess if you are including launches as debuffs then tornado as well.


this is why it helps to level since being lazy gets nobody anywhere lol perhaps cloud kill could use a bit of a boost but besides all of that people should level and Gain new skills that may help them out by leveling (good old fashioned leveling which is aided by resting exp)

your level 5x which you may lack some insight on the full effectiveness of your skills because they may be low leveled or halfway leveled ( use magic missile for example a low leveled magic missile is crappy but a high leveled one has increased crit rate and the capability of launching alot of missiles)
when a warmage hits level 60-65 the bonus points per level (5 points which can be allocated to health)and they have the added effects of increased defense from bone dragon or those 57-58+ armors and increased weapon damage from either bone weapons or lightning oaks. when people level their skills can be upgraded and all that jazz.
a low level disease or penguin or pepper will never be as good as their fully leveled counterparts

here is the thing reward the hard working and encourage the lazy to level

anything that helps people in the short term may hurt their overall experience when they get to a higher level imagine a lack of armors when people reach their third job class

for example inflation from a popular class which may make your equipment more expensive on the long term and then a crash since people always want the easy route
last thing you need and the game needs is a overpopulated class.

from what i recall fs no longer does the same thing as it used to during pre Paris patch i think its final for all the versions of this game

remember that we had people from gpotato and IAH asking us if we considered the pre patch FS to be considered a buggy skill

Edited by codec689, 30 August 2010 - 11:10 AM.

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#34 Gangrian

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:12 PM

reach their third job class
remember that we had people from gpotato and IAH asking us if we considered the pre patch FS to be considered a buggy skill

True, but there are numerous skills that can be considered buggy just for different reasons.

And I understand the basic mechanics of the game. And they don't really change much pre patch. Just more damage and more health from what I understand.

*shrugs* I hope the server is not full of warmages, lol. But with these current patches, it just makes Priests, Pallies, Nins and Myrms a more optimal choice. I will continue leveling with my warmage once the switch happens. Part of the reason I stayed this low is because of the game losing interest. Lol.
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#35 codec689

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:26 PM

True, but there are numerous skills that can be considered buggy just for different reasons.

And I understand the basic mechanics of the game. And they don't really change much pre patch. Just more damage and more health from what I understand.

*shrugs* I hope the server is not full of warmages, lol. But with these current patches, it just makes Priests, Pallies, Nins and Myrms a more optimal choice. I will continue leveling with my warmage once the switch happens. Part of the reason I stayed this low is because of the game losing interest. Lol.

uh myrms dont launch as effectively as they used to and i think from what ived heard in IAH wyverm has a problem BUT their rise in attack power will mostly make or break em pallys there will be a rise in their population that's guaranteed

there perhaps will be a large rise in the priest population since they have one of the better more practical 4th job skills such as that mob "magnet" move + their electric yule log and that meteor skill

Edited by codec689, 31 August 2010 - 06:38 PM.

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#36 Gangrian

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:36 PM

uh myrms dont launch as effectively as they used to and i think from what ived heard in IAH wyverm has a problem BUT their rise in attack power will mostly make or break em pallys there will be a rise in their population that's guaranteed

there perhaps will be a large rise in the priest population since they have one of the better more practical 4th job skills such as that mob "magnet" move

dont count out warmages since their style of leveling is fire and forget
most classes have to stay on mobs while warmages can cast and run which is effective


Those bennies are nice and all, however a move that is normal and not over powered in PvE, can be OMFGBBQH4X0R in PvP. SD is a prime example. I hope that this new creator will see that there is a difference in PvP and PvE and will actually make a difference. Lol.
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#37 codec689

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:42 PM

Those bennies are nice and all, however a move that is normal and not over powered in PvE, can be OMFGBBQH4X0R in PvP. SD is a prime example. I hope that this new creator will see that there is a difference in PvP and PvE and will actually make a difference. Lol.

SD , wolves , falcons yeah there has to be something done about their quickcast
its a pain in the ass being hit by those skills before the animation takes place lol
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#38 Gangrian

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 07:10 PM

SD , wolves , falcons yeah there has to be something done about their quickcast
its a pain in the ass being hit by those skills before the animation takes place lol

The launchers would not be so bad as long as the archers were stuck with a half second delay upon casting and as such they could not being AASing immediately.

But another set of skills that are annoying are the ones that hit and a person is not anywhere near the AoE. Or it has already locked on. Such as the Falcons. The tornadoes, Blizzard, FS, AAS, SD.

I hope that they can make it where the animation will match the action, stead of being half way across the feild and then getting frozen, or suddenly, being hit with a move because it's invisible and so fast or a combination of the two. =_=
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#39 ChoasRage

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:42 AM

The launchers would not be so bad as long as the archers were stuck with a half second delay upon casting and as such they could not being AASing immediately.

But another set of skills that are annoying are the ones that hit and a person is not anywhere near the AoE. Or it has already locked on. Such as the Falcons. The tornadoes, Blizzard, FS, AAS, SD.

I hope that they can make it where the animation will match the action, stead of being half way across the feild and then getting frozen, or suddenly, being hit with a move because it's invisible and so fast or a combination of the two. =_=

if we did that it wud be hard, u prolly wudnt kill anything right?
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#40 Gangrian

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 08:20 AM

if we did that it wud be hard, u prolly wudnt kill anything right?


In PvE? I would not care, as it would not make that big of a difference.

In PvP? I don't see what your point is. If they made attacks match animation it would not be bad for anyone. SD would be at least more limited, the falcons and wolves would not be such a hassle. Blizzard and FS would be easier to avoid. It would be a step towards PvP balance.
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#41 invazn

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 09:04 AM

please change so that Shamans have a more useful 4th job passive :unsure:
every other class gets something that is at least somewhat useful and what do we get? HP/MP regen. QQ
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#42 Gangrian

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 09:09 AM

please change so that Shamans have a more useful 4th job passive :unsure:
every other class gets something that is at least somewhat useful and what do we get? HP/MP regen. QQ


...But that is useful! You want more to go with all the supposed IMBA skills?
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#43 invazn

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 09:17 AM

...But that is useful! You want more to go with all the supposed IMBA skills?


that is not useful at all, compared to other classes. :unsure:

warriors: +defense and movement speed
wm: +matk
archers: napalm bomb bullets with chance of lv20 burn and +bow aspd
thieves: +movement speed/evade rate and some attack animation thingy

andddd finally..
SHAMAN: MP/HP REGENERATION SPEED

if everyone gets an IMBA skill, then why cant we >.<
(unless of course, the increase is like significantly and noticeably faster or something then i wont QQ too much)

Edited by invazn, 02 September 2010 - 09:18 AM.

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#44 Gangrian

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 09:20 AM

that is not useful at all, compared to other classes. :unsure:

warriors: +defense and movement speed
wm: +matk
archers: napalm bomb bullets with chance of lv20 burn and +bow aspd
thieves: +movement speed/evade rate and some attack animation thingy

andddd finally..
SHAMAN: MP/HP REGENERATION SPEED

if everyone gets an IMBA skill, then why cant we >.<
(unless of course, the increase is like significantly and noticeably faster or something then i wont QQ too much)


If PFs get the Burn on their crits then it's GG for anyone caught in their AAS. At least for their mana.

Personally I hate the passive for WM. Not what we "need". A better passive would be upping the freeze rate of blizzard or something. Something that reduces casting time. Not more Matk. =_=

Shamans could get a boost, but they are a more offensive class now. Sides it might be a lot more useful than you think.
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#45 ChoasRage

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 09:30 AM

none of this matters, u just need skill
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#46 Slayze

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 09:52 AM

warriors: +defense and movement speed
wm: +matk

if everyone gets an IMBA skill, then why cant we >.<
(unless of course, the increase is like significantly and noticeably faster or something then i wont QQ too much)


Those passives are all either really small, or based on base stats (which fail).
Heck, the WM's MATK passive is worse than the passive shaman gets during their 3rd job. (and it costs more than twice the amount of SP)

And both of shaman's awakening skills are "IMBA" in 4th job...
A magnet that sucks in every enemy in range (6s) and an homing attack skill that does over 1k% worth of damage, stuns and multi-hits.

Edited by Slayze, 02 September 2010 - 09:52 AM.

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#47 Gangrian

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:05 PM

none of this matters, u just need skill


"u" is addressing whom?
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#48 ChoasRage

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:13 PM

if u use tactics and skill i dont think much of the extra boosts matter unless u play ur cards right
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#49 to0n

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:57 PM

if u use tactics and skill i dont think much of the extra boosts matter unless u play ur cards right


What if they read your poker face?
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#50 ChoasRage

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:59 PM

D: never thought of that thats good thinking. all i can say now is... GL :unsure:
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