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#51 codec689

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 08:26 PM

If PFs get the Burn on their crits then it's GG for anyone caught in their AAS. At least for their mana.

Personally I hate the passive for WM. Not what we "need". A better passive would be upping the freeze rate of blizzard or something. Something that reduces casting time. Not more Matk. =_=

Shamans could get a boost, but they are a more offensive class now. Sides it might be a lot more useful than you think.

uh no Howitzers get that buff not the windrunners or whatever you call them


anyways shamans get a crowd control skill that also works sort of well in pvp ( it gathers people probably slows them down, and its great against mobs)
it was the reason some people in some private server managed to overpower a guild with large numbers in emporia

Edited by codec689, 02 September 2010 - 08:36 PM.

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#52 to0n

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 09:20 PM

uh no Howitzers get that buff not the windrunners or whatever you call them


anyways shamans get a crowd control skill that also works sort of well in pvp ( it gathers people probably slows them down, and its great against mobs)
it was the reason some people in some private server managed to overpower a guild with large numbers in emporia


We don't speak of that here!
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#53 codec689

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 09:06 AM

We don't speak of that here!

i still stayed on topic mengeeeee

Edited by codec689, 03 September 2010 - 09:14 AM.

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#54 Rayleo

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 07:01 AM

If the mage's aim is taken into account in the new patch. Mage will be highly weaken
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#55 Kazra

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 07:12 AM

Well no, when evade goes really high, being able to stack aim to actually hit is really nice. Not to mention it crits too.
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#56 Gangrian

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 08:31 AM

If the mage's aim is taken into account in the new patch. Mage will be highly weaken

No. That's not one of the reason I feel as if WM were weakened. If anything using aim is a bonus.
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#57 ChromeNinja

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 04:13 PM

i dislike shamans :(
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#58 AfroShika

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 06:30 AM

No more action/cast canceling? A fine update indeed. If a little compensation is to be given to mage classes for this, maybe the cast time on some skills could be reduced a bit, but action canceling defeats the whole purpose of their being any animation in the first place.
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#59 Yurai

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 06:31 AM

No more action/cast canceling? A fine update indeed. If a little compensation is to be given to mage classes for this, maybe the cast time on some skills could be reduced a bit, but action canceling defeats the whole purpose of their being any animation in the first place.

They are now aim-based. That's plenty of compensation.
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#60 AfroShika

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 06:39 AM

They are now aim-based. That's plenty of compensation.


So mage's magic skills are to be aimbased? lol wont that make it even harder for them? I figured lowering their cast times on some skills would make up for them not being able to cast-cancel.
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#61 Yurai

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 06:46 AM

So mage's magic skills are to be aimbased? lol wont that make it even harder for them? I figured lowering their cast times on some skills would make up for them not being able to cast-cancel.

Aim-based = able to hit high evade = able to crit.
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#62 AfroShika

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:52 AM

Aim-based = able to hit high evade = able to crit.

=|...

I could be missing something, but it was my understanding that high leveled WM's could hit anyone with most spells regardless of their aim, and aim really only affected their rocket move. So if their attacks are gunna be aim based now, i can assume with high enough evade vs a mage with very low aim, their spells wont hit me right? Not seeing how this will make up for them losing the ability to cast cancel, but then again, i dont really care all that much cause i dont play the class.
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#63 iKnowMyABCs

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:57 AM

=|...

I could be missing something, but it was my understanding that high leveled WM's could hit anyone with most spells regardless of their aim, and aim really only affected their rocket move. So if their attacks are gunna be aim based now, i can assume with high enough evade vs a mage with very low aim, their spells wont hit me right? Not seeing how this will make up for them losing the ability to cast cancel, but then again, i dont really care all that much cause i dont play the class.

You don't need incredible amount of aim stack to hit decent evade with WM. With just decent amount of aim, you can hit just about anyone with normal stats.
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#64 Yurai

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:57 AM

=|...

I could be missing something, but it was my understanding that high leveled WM's could hit anyone with most spells regardless of their aim, and aim really only affected their rocket move. So if their attacks are gunna be aim based now, i can assume with high enough evade vs a mage with very low aim, their spells wont hit me right? Not seeing how this will make up for them losing the ability to cast cancel, but then again, i dont really care all that much cause i dont play the class.

The pre-patch formula has a default boosted aim on spells, and any further aim the wm stacks is considered at around a 20 aim to hit 5 additional evade. As a result, WM starts having no hit rate at all in the 240-260 evade range, which is not at all difficult to achieve with the proper equips at around level 75. In the end, even if they are unable to stack more aim than the provided 30% hit rate, they are still able to hit crits, which hurt any evade stacker significantly, provided that they stack enough crit damage.

Pre-patch, it took a WM with a +18 bone spear a full combo to take down around 30% of my hp when I was against the wall at 220 or so evade.

Edited by Yurai, 13 September 2010 - 09:00 AM.

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#65 AfroShika

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 09:03 AM

The wonders of evade. O well, guess that takes care of that, i wanna play already :(
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#66 invazn

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 03:00 PM

do male and female shaman have same aspd now? (forgot if they changed it or not LOL)
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#67 Rimmy

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 06:18 PM

I can only think of 2 major issues w/ priests/shamans that should probably be addressed for balancing purposes:

1. Witch's Curse's duration is way too long -- 25 seconds at max. Make it more like 10-12 seconds, especially since Level 10 Barbarian gets an 89% chance to freeze. Two powerful debuffs with a 90%-ish chance to hit (Frog and Freeze) is pushing it a bit. I main a shaman, but even I have to admit that with odds like that, it just sounds like it would be far too easy to chain an infinite combo. (This doesn't even take into account the new magnet and spark rock skills.)

2. Healing skills are too powerful -- mostly b/c the 2 best healing skills (Area Heal and Instant Heal) use the caster's max HP to determine the amount healed. It's just too easy to stack a large sum of health in this game. Either these skills should use a formula that incorporates MATK rather than max HP, or the % of the caster's max HP that is healed with these skills should be reduced by half or more (for instance, make a level 5 Instant Heal restore 25% of the caster's max HP, a level 10 Instant Heal 50% of max HP, etc.). Even if we are the healing class, we shouldn't be able to practically fully restore our health with just one cast (especially not with skills that barely consume any MP at all).

Note that I am making these recommendations w/o having had the chance to test out PvP after the Paris patch -- these are points I have been arguing since the THQ*ICE days and I've tried to adjust them with limited knowledge of the new stuff. I'll certainly be able to provide a more in-depth response once I've gotten my hands on the goods.
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#68 Li0nheart

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 12:56 AM

I think Warmage should at least get firesymbol back as a cancel able skill, because Warmage basically does not have any skill that can catch a player in a 1 v1 pvp, that just means warmage can't 1 v1 pvp at all. Firesymbol was the only skill that we can use to catch a player if lucky, maybe give back the animation cancel on the firesymbol, it will help a lot. Since pepper and penguin are still not cancel able and we also need aim now.
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#69 BloodWave

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 11:00 AM

Turn Fire Symbol back the way it was , because I do not wanna trash all my equips due to no aim . :(
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#70 Acnes

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 05:00 PM

Magic need AIM now...it's kina weird...
In THQ warmage doesn't need aim at all...
and job skill become so slow,such as blizzard
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#71 Tundra

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 03:18 PM

There's a huge problem when it comes to PvP with the changes. It works for PvE, only because monsters cannot dash and run away, nor do they try to. However, all physical classes have speedy attacks that launch or knockdown the character. Acolytes get none, and Battle Mages only get one USABLE one (tornado) but it's AoE is quite small and it's a slow start up. All the skills can be AVOIDED, and even if they tend to hit, the flinch time isn't long enough.

Basically, "Energy Ball" needs to be summoned faster, allowing the mage to run. PvP is a fast paced thing, so the only skill that can catch a person is Energy Ball. That's it. Nothing else. Seriously. Another way to fix mages would be to make Magic Missile knock the target down. All skills should be able to hit midair, especially since the animations for most of them reaches that high. By midair, I mean the distance a character can jump by themselves, not launching height. Most physical skills can hit jumpers, so there's NO REASON why magic shouldn't either. That's also another reason why it's hard to catch anyone as mage.
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#72 Faithx

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:29 PM

do male and female shaman have same aspd now? (forgot if they changed it or not LOL)


go test it :P my apsd is still quite slow though lol...stoopid random lag spikes
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#73 Cherrin

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 09:47 AM

@ Rimmy

Personally I think the healing rate was fine before the relaunch and it is still fine. Great, you can heal at more than half your HP with one heal. Then again, why are we monks in the first place? It's to heal others. The half amount of HP we heal for ourselves can do.. like what? 30% to other classes? Any less healing for ourselves and we're dead. Since the new Lavalon is extremely difficult now (one shot of his fire breath takes out 75% of my HP) the rate is FINE. With other boss monsters at f4, they take out maybe half?

Then again, I don't like to PVP. So meh.

Edited by Cherrin, 06 November 2010 - 09:48 AM.

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#74 Rimmy

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 05:18 PM

@ Rimmy

Personally I think the healing rate was fine before the relaunch and it is still fine. Great, you can heal at more than half your HP with one heal. Then again, why are we monks in the first place? It's to heal others. The half amount of HP we heal for ourselves can do.. like what? 30% to other classes? Any less healing for ourselves and we're dead. Since the new Lavalon is extremely difficult now (one shot of his fire breath takes out 75% of my HP) the rate is FINE. With other boss monsters at f4, they take out maybe half?

Then again, I don't like to PVP. So meh.


Yeah, I was speaking from a PvP perspective, mostly... But not entirely.

First, for PvP: If you stack health, you can easily heal about 15-20K+ damage per Instant Heal (and that's not taking into account the fact that Instant Heal can now get to Level 10, which is supposedly 85% of caster's max HP) -- and that's total overkill in PvP. The real issue is that in PvP, it can take a loooong time to chip away at a player w/ decent gear -- especially sorcerers, who benefit from an extra 30% damage reduction on top of all the other DR available (and every attack and all the MP that was used to do that chipping becomes wasted as soon as a heal is applied). Add that to the fact that Instant Heal only has an 8-second cooldown (AND monks have access to Wide Heal, which, w/ Casting Acceleration, is nearly an instant cast w/ an even shorter cooldown, healing 70%+ of a caster's max HP), and you're looking at a class that can tip the scales in any battle like a sack of bricks, just through healing ability alone (especially if the monk's teammates are smart and help keep them alive so they're available for healing when necessary). Oh, and let's not forget Slow Heal (which can now get to Level 10) and, if you really want overkill, HP Restore too.

In PvE, you really shouldn't have to heal too often at all, except occasionally for boss fights. Lavalon's breath, well... His attack patterns are pretty darn easy to read, since he turns his head in the direction he's going to aim long before he unleashes it, so if someone gets hit, then more often than not they just weren't paying attention.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be able to heal massive amounts of HP, but that kind of power should have a slightly longer casting time, a higher MP cost (monks more or less never run out of MP), etc.

Ultimately, maybe they ought to just increase the cooldowns on heals so we have to use them more sparingly, or, as I suggested earlier, nerf the heal amounts a bit. IMO, the current heals are just unnecessarily OP for PvE and imba for PvP (and I say this from the perspective of someone who absolutely loves the class and has made it his main from day one, playing since THQ*ICE's open beta). Again, that's my opinion. But there it is.

Edited by Rimmy, 06 November 2010 - 05:19 PM.

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#75 invazn

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:07 AM

Jeez Rim stop trying to get Monks nerfed :P

But yes, I can see where you are coming from. Many times I have annoyed my opponents because they have finally managed to decrease my HP to about 1/4 only to see it go back up to nearly full instantly.

But still, I dont find Monks particularly hard to kill by other people (maybe i just die too easily haha).. but then I guess you would have to be pretty skilled (or just simply silence or sleep) in terms of some sort of locking/juggling ability to prevent Monks from using skills. And of course, a decent/high attack.

Edited by invazn, 07 November 2010 - 12:10 AM.

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