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#1 Nolanvoid

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 06:22 PM

Current Emporia Rules:
http://forums.warppo...war-guidelines/

There has been much discussion about the mercenary concerns. As it was mentioned previously, guilds that are participating in Emporia, whether they hold a castle or are involved by tournament bid cannot have members mercenary into another guild. Alternate characters are given permission for guilds that own castles to participate, but not mercenary for another guild. This currently has not changed. Therefore, if a user is from a current participating guild that has their guild name and emblem on the T-Board, they cannot mercenary for another guild. Alternate characters cannot mercenary for another guild.

The reason why this is the case is because users will attempt to knock out specific guilds from the tournament by grouping together. It is very unsportsmanship-like. From our perspective, mercenaries are meant for users that don't have a chance to participate in Emporia.

***Participation in the tournament means that a your guild is involved either through the 8 spots from a bid or will be involved from the 1Star and 2 Star castles.***

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, in terms of discussion for the rules, we would like to get some insight on the current situation. This does not mean a rule will be changed, but if valid points are made, it may be considered.

Here is 1 scenario-

Issue 1: If I cannot have mercenaries, then how will my small guild compete?
- Mercenaries are permitted, but not from those already participating in the tournament. When people are joining to make another guild lose, it becomes a bigger issue. Larger guilds should not be penalized for being larger. There is a 25 player limit for participation. A larger guild will not be able to get more than 25 players in for Emporia.


If someone believes that the rules should be changed, please bring it up with a valid reason. Flaming and non-related material will be removed by the mods.
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#2 xRedDevilx

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 07:18 PM

Good news.
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#3 Coolsam

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 07:35 PM

Good to hear clarification on the one EW rule that wasn't enforced before.
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#4 Miname

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:12 PM

The reason why this is the case is because users will attempt to knock out specific guilds from the tournament by grouping together. It is very unsportsmanship-like. From our perspective, mercenaries are meant for users that don't have a chance to participate in Emporia.

I have to disagree on this point, at least for the castle battles. It will actually be harder or near impossible for non-cash spmming +20 legendary weaker guilds to compete for the new 2* castle without the help from losing guilds. I assume that each week the top guilds will all be competing for castle. Locking them out from 2* offense creates an unfair advantage for the already castle holding guilds.

Edited to stop a flame war.

Edited by StormHaven, 03 November 2011 - 09:16 PM.

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#5 EnderW

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:23 PM

If a better equipped guild wants to help out a smaller guild they can they just can't enter their own guild into the Emporia matches too.

the issue you bring up is not really an issue Miname since as you stated you assume the top guilds will take part each week

since top guild = better equipped it is highly likely a smaller or weaker guild will be knocked out in the Emporia matches and not make it to the castle
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#6 StormHaven

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:55 PM

This ruling now makes it impossible for non stacked guilds to take castle, unless a stacked guild doesn't bid. If you want castle now and you're a small guild you gotta open up your recruitment.

Edited by StormHaven, 03 November 2011 - 10:00 PM.

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#7 Miname

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:01 PM

since top guild = better equipped it is highly likely a smaller or weaker guild will be knocked out in the Emporia matches and not make it to the castle

lol.

Also, your definition of "weaker" is not clear. If Ascension, Empire, Badtouch and Donuts all compete, only one guild may win the Saturday tournament. But by no means are the other three guilds weak, or weaker. Hell, its entirely possible to feed and glitch your way to victory, as this server has seen on many occasions.

Edited by StormHaven, 03 November 2011 - 10:23 PM.

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#8 StormHaven

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:11 PM

EVERY SINGLE GUILD THAT HAS DONE EW AS IGNORED THIS RULE MULTIPLE TIMES.

Edited by StormHaven, 03 November 2011 - 10:26 PM.

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#9 StormHaven

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:26 PM

Ok let's stop pointing fingers and discuss this on neutral grounds.
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#10 Miname

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:29 PM

I don't feel that this rule is even fair, nor is calling out guilds who have used it. It's a feature coded into the actual game, so it's very counter-intuitive to assume that using the feature is against the rules. It does not even strike me as gray-area.
If I've mistakenly cheated in the past by mercing for a guild after Empire has lost their battle, then I am sorry. I apparently do not know the Emporia rules as well *some* people.

Edited by Miname, 03 November 2011 - 10:35 PM.

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#11 Miname

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:35 PM

You know what, enjoy your easy-mode EW. Congrats on finally killing it.

Edited by Miname, 03 November 2011 - 10:37 PM.

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#12 StormHaven

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:36 PM

Incase anyone has forgotten here are the rules of EW. No where does it say losing guilds can't merc for others.
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#13 EnderW

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:43 PM

You know what, enjoy your easy-mode EW. Congrats on finally killing it.


The reason why this is the case is because users will attempt to knock out specific guilds from the tournament by grouping together. It is very unsportsmanship-like. From our perspective, mercenaries are meant for users that don't have a chance to participate in Emporia.


you guys killed it when you decided that it would be a great idea to band together to try and stop rebellion from having a fair chance at winning too.

I said it before storm removed posts and I'll say it again now.

This topic is for talking about the rules not for you to attack rebellion Miname if you can't do that get out of the topic.
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#14 Mablung

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:04 PM

The reason why this is the case is because users will attempt to knock out specific guilds from the tournament by grouping together. It is very unsportsmanship-like.


aha! so you agree that users banding together to knock out a specific guild is unsportsmanlike. yet no punishment was given to a certain guild for said unsportsmanlike conduct. though this event happened before rules were set in place, the GM's saw fit to condone the act and move on. since then, other guilds saw fit to take action into their own hands. while this seems unfair, so is the fact, that still no punishment was given out, despite many warnings.
if you wish to tell us how we must conduct ourselves, please enforce the rules and hand out punishment, including past offenders.

seems much like whats happening on wall street currently. they got a slap on the wrist and walk away with a pat on back saying, "good job on winning the first re-opened dragon defense."

that's what i take from this
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#15 Coolsam

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:09 PM

For "non-stacked" guilds keep in mind people have pulled +20 without castle. Actually to recall correctly Yurai and Akyrie pulled the first +20's before castle was available. Castle makes it slightly easier and maybe less costly for both enchanting and soulcrafting.

Eventually the following 8 will always be seen going at it with a fair chance shuffle amongst them for castle: (No offense to others, these 8 are most often seen)

Rebellion, Ascension, BadTouch, Empire, Donuts, Improvavel, Regulars, WutangClan.

Also keep in mind this rule has loopholes. So every guild must pay attention.
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#16 StormHaven

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:13 PM

For "non-stacked" guilds keep in mind people have pulled +20 without castle. Actually to recall correctly Yurai and Akyrie pulled the first +20's before castle was available. Castle makes it slightly easier and maybe less costly for both enchanting and soulcrafting.

Eventually the following 8 will always be seen going at it with a fair chance shuffle amongst them for castle: (No offense to others, these 8 are most often seen)

Rebellion, Ascension, BadTouch, Empire, Donuts, Improvavel, Regulars, WutangClan.

Also keep in mind this rule has loopholes. So every guild must pay attention.


Not trying to sound sarcastic, but only 2 of those guilds mentioned have taken castles without mercenaries from losing guilds...
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#17 Coolsam

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:18 PM

Not trying to sound sarcastic, but only 2 of those guilds mentioned have taken castles without mercenaries from losing guilds...


Yes your correct on that. Eventually we'll see more. But the new rule certainly boosts the chances for a non-merc from losing guild defense in 2 stars. Basically the tournament placing has to be at the right place at the right time for some. If a vault glitch incident happens again (God forbid) then ya the glitched guilds can merc.

Also regarding the loopholes, some are obvious and simple but no one attempt these.
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#18 EnderW

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:24 PM

It's not a new rule it's a clarification please people stop calling it a new rule.

as I said before: if you want to merc your whole guild into Emporia you can the clarification is that if you want to do that do not also enter your own guild into Emporia
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#19 StormHaven

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:29 PM

It's not a new rule it's a clarification please people stop calling it a new rule.

as I said before: if you want to merc your whole guild into Emporia you can the clarification is that if you want to do that do not also enter your own guild into Emporia


Please show me where this rule was mentioned before, because honestly I've never seen it posted anywhere or mentioned before. I don't want to see "well this post implies it" I actually want the direct quote and post where it states this rule and by this rule I mean " Losing guilds are not allowed to mercenary for other guilds in the tournament" . (This thread doesn't count either, I want a thread posted before this one was.)

Edited by StormHaven, 03 November 2011 - 11:36 PM.

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#20 EnderW

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:48 PM

http://forums.warppo...war-guidelines/

here storm let me highlight some words for you

This may include, but not limited to

now let me point out again the view point from the staff.

The reason why this is the case is because users will attempt to knock out specific guilds from the tournament by grouping together. It is very unsportsmanship-like. From our perspective, mercenaries are meant for users that don't have a chance to participate in Emporia.


You know very well it was this reason most of the above rules were put in place

Like I said in my above post:

It's not a new rule it's a clarification


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#21 StormHaven

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 12:23 AM

I'm sorry that was my mistake. It's late and I read your post wrong.
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#22 Miname

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 12:34 AM

http://forums.warpportal.com/index.php?/topic/40613-emporia-war-guidelines/

here storm let me highlight some words for you

This may include, but not limited to

now let me point out again the view point from the staff.



You know very well it was this reason most of the above rules were put in place

Like I said in my above post:

I do not see in exact quotes where it says that a losing guild cannot merc for another guild. This new rule is not a clarification, it's an interpretation of what has already been said. Aramis made that original ruling because people holding castle were quitting their main guilds and creating a new guild with their friends from other guilds in order to win the tourney all over again. That has nothing to do with this new rule.
I repeat: The last rule was to stop people whose main guilds already hold castle from participating for a second week and winning again. It was not meant to bar losing teams from mercing.

Edited by Miname, 04 November 2011 - 12:36 AM.

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#23 AkatsukiKawa

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 12:42 AM

I have to disagree and would like to ask to reconsider this rule. My points are:

1.
This is a game, which is suppose to give player the fun from playing it. EW is one of this game feature that people can enjoy, and i know many people really enjoy EW. By forcing this rule, are decreasing the chance/match where they can play in EW because if they lost in 1st round, they cannot play EW anymore.

Possible argument against my first point: "You can still do this! Just dont let your guild bid, and just be a mercenary."

Some active EW guilds dont open mercenary. So, by not bidding, those people may not have chance PLAYING in EW. People who enjoys EW just want to be able to play in EW as many as possible match, not to mention we only have EW once a week (twice if you counted dragon defense), maximum 5 matches. In addition, from my point of view, playing as a guild is more fun than as mercenary because it is more possible to build teamworks or apply strategy as a guild. So, not bidding is not a good solution =.=

2.

The reason why this is the case is because users will attempt to knock out specific guilds from the tournament by grouping together. It is very unsportsmanship-like.


I would not say "the users will attempt to knock out a specific guild". Reasons:
  • That specific guild has never opened mercenary. It is only natural if many users mercen for its opponent guild because they can not mercen for that guild.
  • Personally, i prefer to mercen a "weaker" or smaller guild because it will more balance the match and a balance match is more fun (fighting 1 person or only fight 1 person is not fun at all =.=). And from my observation, many active EWers also tend to mercen weaker/smaller guild because it is more fun. Since that specific guild is already super strong (and they only choose their stronger member to participate in EW), any active mercenary who plays in EW for fun will see there is no need to mercen that guild (if they opened mercenary).
  • Personally again, I dont see EW as sport match, but i see it more like a "war without any ill intention". And i feel, "an alliance" should be allowed in EW, because the match is still properly conducted without cheating (feeder or icereaper incident).
So i would not say this "gang up" is intentional, but it was because of that circumtances.

By saying this, i don't mean that every guild must open mercenary. Sure for that guild, closing the mercenary is the best strategy for winning in EW (unless we can choose mercenary personally). But by closing this mercenary, i feel that they should not "complaint" about opponent's mercenary (It is like.... after u have chosen something, you should take the responsibility/consequence of that action, not complaining).

Even this rule is enforced, if users really intentionally want to knock out a specific guild (as an alliance), they can still do that by only letting 1 strong guild join EW while the other strong player mercen for that strong guild. (This mean, EW will have less participant and it will slowly killing EW =.=).

3.

From our perspective, mercenaries are meant for users that don't have a chance to participate in Emporia.


Exactly. But dragon defense should also be considered. There are many guilds that dont have a chance in participating dragon defense. They can only playing in dragon defense as mercenary. With this rule, it means that if they want to have chance, playing in dragon defense, they must not playing in EW as a guild (why did i say chance? It is because they are not sure whether the castle holder or the challenger will open mercen in dragon defense).

********************************************

In conclusion, this rule will not solve the "alliance" problem. It will only slowly killing EW. (it will only decrease the chance people playing in EW, make a match more imbalance (even a sport match are more interesting when both parties have "balance" power), and will lead to monopoly/duopoly/tripoly of castle unless the users are made an alliance as mentioned in point 2)

Last, with those many advantages, only the top guild are deserved to use castle. With mercenary system, the TOP guild, is a guild that are able to defeat their opponents, even its opponent has mercenaries, or even if they have mercenary (because it means they can negotiate better to ask mercenary to join them).
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#24 EnderW

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 12:46 AM

1. Exploitation of Emporia Wars will lead to potential suspension of a guild member, leader, or entire guild.

- This may include, but not limited to, users joining other guilds to interrupt or hinder another guild's ability to participate in Emporia to the way it was designed.


the rules were put in place to keep things fair, yes guilds making a new guild to try and keep others from having a fair chance at the castle were a part of it however the staff have chosen to clarify further since some people did not understand that.
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#25 AkatsukiKawa

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 12:59 AM

Also keep in mind this rule has loopholes. So every guild must pay attention.


Also regarding the loopholes, some are obvious and simple but no one attempt these.


Instead of saying there are a loopholes in this rule, you should point this loopholes. By doing that, u really can contribute more into the discussion, and prevent us to have "a war regarding of EWs rule" in the future
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