318 replies to this topic

[igzz]

And some posters calling Heim retarded and a failure.

I don't think anyone in this thread ever said that. Except you



Just disable the St. patrick's hat we'll have no "botted ales" problem. The ales in existence will deplete quite fast if you remove the cooldown, make them 25 weight (for woe balance, or whatever other reason there was) and say that the effects of the green ales present today will be gone come March.

Edited by igzz, 11 November 2011 - 02:56 AM.

[Okii]

I don't think anyone in this thread ever said that. Except you



Just disable the St. patrick's hat we'll have no "botted ales" problem. The ales in existence will deplete quite fast if you remove the cooldown, make them 25 weight (for woe balance, or whatever other reason there was) and say that the effects of the green ales present today will be gone come March.

Try reading every post in this thread and then post this /ok
Oh and go read the other one that was closed too, while you're at it.
Same people, different thread.

As for disabling the hat... a lot of people have said that they want the hat to have a seasonal effect only.
Disabling the hat permanently would probably just make everyone even more angry...

[Xellie]

I just need a straight answer, please. Will ales be changed as a result of this thread or not? I need to know if I should convert them or just wait.

Stop being so greedy jeez. How dare you want an answer so you know how to continue supplying your guild.

[asayuu]

I don't understand one thing.

Why will everyone quit if ales get nerfed? I know nobody wants to die in WOE/MVP, but isn't this too much?

I totally agree with Kadnya. I would make [personal option. Bash on me, not funginners] ales useless and trading them for other kinds of items. Either healing items [including ygg seeds and berries], and other kinds of items. Maybe safe to 7 certificates or even the KVM badges as someone else said.

Ales useless would maybe be decreasing the amount healed, or making the ale heal [at random] either 50% hp or 50% sp. Being a 50% healing item, it deserves a cooldown, but until the balance patch comes, 10 seconds is too much. 1 second until the patch may be already good. Decreases the spamming, but if the damage is too high and impossible to outpot... Well, outpotting any skill is not intended, but there are too many onehitting skills. And potions heal the same as pre-renewal potions. In a almost 120 vit, a Mastela [intended to be the best healing consumable, just worse than ranked slims because... They are ranked] heals around 2000 HP in a non-sword class. THIS IS BLOWING 20 MASTELAS TO FILL YOUR HP. And like people said, there are spammable skills able to bypass it on every hit.

Until the balance patch, remove the cooldown and make the weight of one ale equal or higher than the other healing items. 25 is good, but I prefer something like 50.

Again, when I post, I post as Asayuu Mie, a forum member, and not a representative of the Funginners group, unless I state otherwise, about discussions of our internal forums. I would post the same things, regardless of my title color.

[Gangstaz]

wow, both my votes went to the highest and 2nd highest. Looks like public sentiment is similar to mine.

[LazyStevz]

While I do have a lot in storage, and feel the butthurt of my own economics go up in flames, I do think the Alegate has had an effect on recovering items overall and must agree with some sort of action being made. If you must know I collected 5k ales from the gold/silver coins in Hugel. Luckily saw a GM ban a few of the botters there... Hilarious.

The first thing the Mods want is the reduction of the ales about the place. I implore you to disable the hats effect to stop more from popping up (As asayuu mentioned). I have a woeful way of farming them (Drop rate makes anyone cry) but I've seen bots in Wormtail country, shameless in being 3rd job, and teleport the moment one drops for them(I assume with their spare cards they do the same). This'll at least stop a flow of them being produced. As for a seasonal effect it might work out well if the hat can only be active for a certain period of time or the ales get 'stAle' after a while (We all know alcohol gets better with age but this is RO!).

As for a turn-in suggestion, totally bias, I would like what asayuu suggested with the addition of other items. Right now we should get rid of them and bring some sort of event that rakes them in, for a short period of time, and finally render them useless afterwards. The event should be short or have a small window of opportunity for people to participate.

As for the problem with ales... I don't think it's entirely a bot issue. Yes, I hate bots like most of us here, but the item in question is quite overpowered. Getting rid of them is really the only option we have, hopefully, until the St Patrick's event returns.

TL:DR Version:
- Part of the event. Disable hat effect to stop more coming up. Add more items to the trade-in and make this event relatively short. Bots aren't the problem entirely. Ales are pretty overpowered in themselves.

Random screen:

[robrod]

Botting is the reason why ales are being questioned so harshly.

... you could ban bots, no? Especially with the account bound hat, botted ales will be gone fast.

But why go the hard way, if you could just delete ales and **** everyone (legit) over.

Edited by robrod, 11 November 2011 - 09:43 AM.

[Mefistofeles]

i cooldown its perfect...... account bound saint patrick its perfect.......
gree ales being account bound? its not a problem for me, but can be really bad for others... then its not perfect

REMOVE YGG SEEDS FROM ALLIGATORS???? YESSSSSSSSSS ITS PERFECT, change the monster that drops then, OR fill the alligators map with more agressive monsters with high respawn(anolians maybe?)

Edited by Mefistofeles, 11 November 2011 - 01:57 PM.

[exodius]

After reading the whole thread, tested the green ale cooldown while mvping and leveling, and thinking a lot, here's my point.

First let's make a quick summary :

- 14.1/balance/whatever patch is coming = cooldown on ales/seed/berry
- 5 millions ale total on the servers
- people had farm ales from the snake event, then with st patrick hat
- a few had abuse farming with special tatics

Let's talk about before ale was introduced in mass amounts :

- berry/seeds was costing like between 600-800k and 250-400k (if i remember good)
- ranked blue pots was something valuable, and desirable, same for slims whites
- woe was a 1 Hit KO festival, because some class have overpowered skills, even without gods/kvm

Right now, mosts have spend lots of zeny for each woe, spend hours of hunting ales, and maybe even real money to grab hat and upgrade it.


I was having a real bad feeling, because right now i have spend hundred of millions zeny for my ale addiction. I was sick that heim change his mind hours before maintenance, or even when they did the maint.

But, after thinking a lot, it looks like gms have done the right thing. I remember how i was mvping with my sura (and champ before renewal) with blue pots and seeds/berrys.
That was expensive, and hard, and that should be like this with mvping, something that make you team up and plan something to kill those mvps.

Now we have : not so useless ale, that have 10sec cooldown, and that we should use when we are in emergency cases, not the 2 key press full hp/sp item like it is now. Before ales, the seeds/berry price and rarity, even without cooldown, was enough to limit the use.

And now i feel pretty happy with what has been done. Cooldown to prepare us to next patch coming, and make us thinking about new tactics. NPC to trade ales to berry/seeds so we can use our hardly owned items and use them.


I remember when they decide to let us woe with powerfull healing items, so wars was actually fun and not the 1Hit KO boring festival that it was before ales.

As always, you should think about that : since day one, there was always something gamebreaking and abusable (hocus pocus, anniversary events, mvp mob farming, etc...), and patch to end those things.

Yes i and all of us have lost lots of zeny in the deal. but i don't think this change is that bad, because it give us some time to adapt to the incoming patch.

I vote for : don't change the st patrick hat effect, and let it be vendable. Farming ales with it should now be fixed with what they have done to maps/dracula mob. It is neccessary to keep a low ale income in the servers, without filling maps that drop seeds/berry with bots.

[JStoneheart]

Exodious, I could swear you copy-pasted that.

[Mefistofeles]

After reading the whole thread, tested the green ale cooldown while mvping and leveling, and thinking a lot, here's my point.

First let's make a quick summary :

- 14.1/balance/whatever patch is coming = cooldown on ales/seed/berry
- 5 millions ale total on the servers
- people had farm ales from the snake event, then with st patrick hat
- a few had abuse farming with special tatics

Let's talk about before ale was introduced in mass amounts :

- berry/seeds was costing like between 600-800k and 250-400k (if i remember good)
- ranked blue pots was something valuable, and desirable, same for slims whites
- woe was a 1 Hit KO festival, because some class have overpowered skills, even without gods/kvm

Right now, mosts have spend lots of zeny for each woe, spend hours of hunting ales, and maybe even real money to grab hat and upgrade it.


I was having a real bad feeling, because right now i have spend hundred of millions zeny for my ale addiction. I was sick that heim change his mind hours before maintenance, or even when they did the maint.

But, after thinking a lot, it looks like gms have done the right thing. I remember how i was mvping with my sura (and champ before renewal) with blue pots and seeds/berrys.
That was expensive, and hard, and that should be like this with mvping, something that make you team up and plan something to kill those mvps.

Now we have : not so useless ale, that have 10sec cooldown, and that we should use when we are in emergency cases, not the 2 key press full hp/sp item like it is now. Before ales, the seeds/berry price and rarity, even without cooldown, was enough to limit the use.

And now i feel pretty happy with what has been done. Cooldown to prepare us to next patch coming, and make us thinking about new tactics. NPC to trade ales to berry/seeds so we can use our hardly owned items and use them.


I remember when they decide to let us woe with powerfull healing items, so wars was actually fun and not the 1Hit KO boring festival that it was before ales.

As always, you should think about that : since day one, there was always something gamebreaking and abusable (hocus pocus, anniversary events, mvp mob farming, etc...), and patch to end those things.

Yes i and all of us have lost lots of zeny in the deal. but i don't think this change is that bad, because it give us some time to adapt to the incoming patch.

I vote for : don't change the st patrick hat effect, and let it be vendable. Farming ales with it should now be fixed with what they have done to maps/dracula mob. It is neccessary to keep a low ale income in the servers, without filling maps that drop seeds/berry with bots.

this makes my day, best comment ever

MAKES ME WANA DANCE!!! IM SO HAPPY!!!! XD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqYruhUlG3A&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLZMk9cRK-U&feature=fvwrel

Edited by Mefistofeles, 11 November 2011 - 02:03 PM.

[asayuu]

Sincerely. Mefisto has a small point here. The weaker the monster = the easier to the bot programs to farm them.

Alligators and Stem Worms [Baphomet Jrs too] are too weak, and it makes too easy to someone create a bot to farm them. If they are high-level consumables, it would make a little more sense if the high levels were the ones hunting for them.

The bots would need to be way higher levels to be able to catch the items, and banning one would destroy a lot of "work" the botter had. Then they would quit the business... In theory.

[Oda]

I appreciate that everyone took the time to put in their 2 quid about what they would changes they want to see for the st. patrick's hat and green ales. We can see that these seasonal items have become deeply ingrained in the PVP scene and have filled a gap due to the lack of useful/potent potions post-renewal. There is also a tremendous amount of passion on both sides of the issue, with people making eloquent arguments for or against the issue of ales, the discussion that has arisen from that has been extremely informative to us on the other end of the screen.

Unfortunately, the farming of ales with bots or exploits hasn't stopped with the changes that have been implemented so far. Either we could address the root cause of the abuse, or we would have to continually fix things around the edges of the problem to stop it. Either decision would cause a good deal of controversy, but it is something that must be dealt with.

The following will be changed with the next maintenance:

St. Patrick's Hat
-Will be losing it's effect

Green Ales
-Changed to 10% restoration
-Cooldown removed
-Weight set to 5
-Can be traded and vended
-You will still be able to trade in the ales

[Kadnya]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmm.....

In case nuone else noticed, ninja announcement on the patcher:



I don't mind this fix, since at least ales stay useful. I would rather still if a better trade in was offered, but anything is better than the horrendous 10 seconds cooldown x_x

And umm, looks like whoever said that the winning option would be the one not listed, won XD.

10% sounds okish for a recovery item, but a bit harsh compared with how much green ales healed. Could we get a trade in of like 1 green ale = 2~3 korean rice cakes? (only heal HP, but you don't lose as many potions as without trade in).

Anyways, I'm happy with the final decision, since it could have been much worse @@

Edited by Kadnya, 11 November 2011 - 02:54 PM.

[Thursday]

But are you going to delete them in the future?

[DeltaRay]

10 % is a bit harsh 20% seems more reasonable...

[Daray]

Thank you for your informative reply Oda, one question remains for me(and many others I believe):

-You will still be able to trade in the ales

Is the trade in going to be the same as the one currently in, or will it be changed?
If the turn in is being changed: for better or for worse? (from the user perspective)

[Oda]

No plans to delete existing ales or hats.

Thank you for your informative reply Oda, one question remains for me(and many others I believe):


Is the trade in going to be the same as the one currently in, or will it be changed?
If the turn in is being changed: for better or for worse? (from the user perspective)

I believe we will be adding in Korean Rice Cakes to the trade in list, on a 1-to-1 basis.

[FiskBlack]

That one was none of the options in the pool, well that sucks, if ales will be like that, why removing the drop chance from the hat?

[Mefistofeles]

results of the POLL

current Ales gain to 25 weight and tradable (113 votes [34.88%])

Effect remain, but remain account bind. (109 votes [33.64%])

they did it..........

Edited by zr0rieu, 11 November 2011 - 03:23 PM.
censorship

[Oda]

Your attitude have grown tiresome mefistofeles. You are contributing less than even a troll at this point.

[exodius]

I advise you move all st patrick hat from carts to inventory, people are still vending it. Check ragial
Item description says it can be stored, vended, traded, but it can only be stored atm.

I hope that your anoncement will not be modified before the next maintenance, so we will get screwed if we put our ales right now at the npc.

[DeltaRay]

can we make a poll to ban him from the forums?

[Moogle]

The trade in rates suck for ales. Thats like trading in ur PS3 for a PS1 ROFLMAO

Edited by Moogle, 11 November 2011 - 03:21 PM.

[Kitten]

So they're like Heavy Korean Rice Cakes, except with a bit of SP regen in there.