55 replies to this topic

[sakurawings1]

You can be jailed for viewing pornography or criticizing the government in any form.

yeah but you wouldnt be there too long for that e_e would you? lol

[Xellie]

I've worked infront of a computer 10 hours a day for years and there comes a point where I'd rather be working outside, getting up, walking, moving, ANYTHING.

It kills your health just as much. Posture problems, vision issues, muscle atrophy. And beleive me once you lose the ability to walk through inactivity, you'll hate your life.

Sciatica doesn't come from working too hard, I have sciatica and I've only done It work and shop work in my life, and I definately had it before I even started working.

[IronPlushy]

yeah but you wouldnt be there too long for that e_e would you? lol

If you condemn the government you may never get out

I've worked infront of a computer 10 hours a day for years and there comes a point where I'd rather be working outside, getting up, walking, moving, ANYTHING.

It kills your health just as much. Posture problems, vision issues, muscle atrophy. And beleive me once you lose the ability to walk through inactivity, you'll hate your life.

Sciatica doesn't come from working too hard, I have sciatica and I've only done It work and shop work in my life, and I definately had it before I even started working.

Sciatica is caused by a spinal compression and it generates chronic pain in one or both of your legs and/or your lower back. I know the exact day I compressed my spine.
It's funny how people in construction would rather work at a desk, and people who work at a desk would rather work outside. Maybe if you exercised you wouldn't get atrophy, do a tape, join a gym, get some free weights, it's called having a fat butt.
Would love to see these people "suffering" at their desk carry 150lbs. of shingles up some scaffolding.

[lainee]

EDIT: Even if most gold farmers in RO are bots, not fighting them helps encouraging the gold farming market to force people to farm manually in those games where botting is almost impossible.

lol. Not really and actually it's the other way around. Right now on iRO a grand total of 0% of the gold farmers on Valk and Ygg are actual convicts subject to forced labor. Why would someone run one client per PC, per prisoner when they can run 30+ sessions of 'you know what' on a single PC? So in that sense, botting prevents the exploitation of human beings being used to farm zeny on iRO. lol. As such, not really iRO's problem. But hey, if the GM's do find a way to finally block out the bots, and the iRO Gold farmers then have to resort to human exploitation to continue the operation, then you know who to blame right?

Want to do something, that combats both bots and farmers of all persuasions ? Don't buy Zeny, or even better come transfer to Ymir and enjoy the benefits of living on this side of the Great PayWall of Chinese bot farmers! Simple.

Edited by lainee, 10 December 2011 - 01:53 PM.

[Xellie]

sciatica is caused nerve compression.... Spinal compression happens as a result of many hereditary factors, on top of work related ones, but more often due to a predisposition.

And yeah, you can say all that crap, but people in prison don't have a choice to exercise, so yes they would get RSI, carpel tunnel and muscular atrophy, not to mention sight issues related to using a VDU all day.

[JStoneheart]

lol. Not really and actually it's the other way around. Right now on iRO a grand total of 0% of the gold farmers on Valk and Ygg are actual convicts subject to forced labor.

How do you know?

[lainee]

How do you know?

I've played this game an awfully long time now. Know enough about what is and isn't possible regarding 'that which shall not be named' also.

The reason RO does not use human labor to farm Gold is simply because 'its not needed' and is way less efficient (by a huge magnitude) for farming on Ragnarok Online. Maybe other games out there require human input of a real client to function. RO does not which is why it is botted in the way it is, and also why Bots are so hard to stop on a f2p Ragnarok server such as Valk.

Also pretty sure when portals become blocked, the poor Chinese convicts don't wait about for their supervisor to come give them a good beating.

Edited by lainee, 10 December 2011 - 02:12 PM.

[JStoneheart]

I've played this game an awfully long time now. Know enough about what is and isn't possible regarding 'that which shall not be named' also.

The reason RO does not use human labor to farm Gold is simply because 'its not needed' and is way less efficient (by a huge magnitude) for farming on Ragnarok Online. Maybe other games out there require human input of a real client to function. RO does not which is why it is botted in the way it is, and also why Bots are so hard to stop on a f2p Ragnarok server such as Valk.

Also pretty sure when portals become blocked, the poor Chinese convicts don't wait about for their supervisor to come give them a good beating.

Yeah, but you seem to be missing the point here: Not dealing with gold farmers (humans or bots) encourages to do these illegal activities on this AND/OR other games.

[Xellie]

I dunno, I've seen chatlogs of some chinese guys whining to players about how they can't feed their families now because they were reported or something

[Agahim]

it doesn't matter wheather RO requires actual people playing to farm zeny or not.
gold selling services are large companies by now, and the majority of them offer virtual money for a great variety of different online-games. among those there will always be games that require actual gold farming via playing rather than just botting.

by buying zeny for RO you support those companies and therfore support "online slavery" indirectly.
so in the end it comes down to the same.

that's just one of many negative effects of buying zeny.
others are:

- screwing the ingame economy.
- harming the company that runs your game
- severe loss of p e n i s-size (seriously forum? i can't believe you word-filter that, it's not even a swear word)
- giving new players a harder life ingame

etc. etc.

Edited by Agahim, 10 December 2011 - 02:41 PM.

[IronPlushy]

pretty sure zenny sellers help new players, since the only other way to make zenny for new players is to sell Kafra shop items, seriously it's impossible to make zenny in this game, everyone with senny has been playing for years and they set the prices

[Agahim]

pretty sure zenny sellers help new players, since the only other way to make zenny for new players is to sell Kafra shop items, seriously it's impossible to make zenny in this game, everyone with senny has been playing for years and they set the prices

not sure if trolling or just braindead.

Edited by Agahim, 10 December 2011 - 02:58 PM.

[lainee]

I dunno, I've seen chatlogs of some chinese guys whining to players about how they can't feed their families now because they were reported or something

yeah, but those chatlogs 99% of the time come from the end user (the person running the bot farm) from the account/character the stuff gets passed to - and not from the legions of mute red headed thieves and rogues.
Maybe Oda can chime in an let us know just how many bots he has caught, that have claimed to have been coerced into gold farming due to forced labor in a prision camp?

[IronPlushy]

not sure if trolling or just braindead.

then how does a new player make 500m zenny?

[Okii]

pretty sure zenny sellers help new players, since the only other way to make zenny for new players is to sell Kafra shop items, seriously it's impossible to make zenny in this game, everyone with senny has been playing for years and they set the prices

I see where you're coming from.
Bots lower prices on a lot of cards/gear/etc., and make it easier for you to buy them due to a lower price and constant availability--Hunter Fly Card goes for 40m or so on Ymir and 8M or so on Valk because of this.

But in the longrun, nope. Those bots just keep pumping more and more zeny into the economy, raising the prices of other items that you're going to want later on (people gotta make money somehow). Player owned bots will make it difficult for you to sell anything of your own, too. They don't mind going lower. What work do they put forth in getting those items anyways.. v__v

[lainee]

Yeah, but you seem to be missing the point here: Not dealing with gold farmers (humans or bots) encourages to do these illegal activities on this AND/OR other games.

This is a forum about Ragnarok Online not AND/OR other games. If you want to talk about other games then go post in their forums? If Chinese convicts are farming what ever on WoW - I don't really care as I don't play that game and have no desire to. If you have a problem with it, then go post on the Blizzard forums or what ever games require convict labour.

Ragnarok online (in particular iRO) plays no part in coerced labour of Chinese convicts (the original premise of the OP). I on the other hand am far more worried about the bot AI routines being left on so long, and not getting caught by Oda, that they may develop sentience, inhabit hulking metal bodies and rise up and destroy all of humanity. Actually that would probably be a good thing as it sure would take care of the convict farmer problem. So say we all.

[Agahim]

then how does a new player make 500m zenny?

what does a new player need 500m zeny for?

people buying zeny for real money supports botting in ro. lots of bots in ro cause high inflation which make prices go boom.
high prices harm new player since they can't afford anything anymore with the normal money they earn ingame.

so your solution is make the newbs buy online zeny too? which would then further harm the economy and screw over even newer players.
notice the flaw in your plan?

i can't believe i have to explain such simple things to you. please, please be trolling. i'd gladly be mad at you.

Edited by Agahim, 10 December 2011 - 03:30 PM.

[IronPlushy]

what does a new player need 500m zeny for?

people buying zeny for real money supports botting in ro. lots of bots in ro cause high inflation which make prices go boom.
high prices harm new player since they can't afford anything anymore with the normal money they earn ingame.

so your solution is make the newbs buy online zeny too? which would then further harm the economy and screw over even newer players.
notice the flaw in your plan?

i can't believe i have to explain such simple things to you. please, please be trolling. i'd gladly be mad at you.

pretty sure it's the lack of zenny sinks and the people with billions of zenny that cause inflation

[Agahim]

pretty sure it's the lack of zenny sinks and the people with billions of zenny that cause inflation

that's why the heavily botted servers (ygg + valk) have the bad economy and the fairly untouched server ymir (with the majority of veteran players aka "people with billions of zeny), has a pretty normal economy, right?

Edited by Agahim, 10 December 2011 - 03:39 PM.

[IronPlushy]

that's why the heavily botted servers (ygg + valk) have the bad economy and the fairly untouched server ymir (with the majority of veteran players aka "people with billions of zeny), has a pretty normal economy, right?

what's normal? everything is still unaffordable no matter where you go

[Agahim]

what's normal? everything is still unaffordable no matter where you go

just compare economies on ragial.com.

[lainee]

Imagine having to stay staring at a computer screen 16+ hours, maybe sick, poorly fed, with only 3 or so hours of sleep, playing doing some mind nubing process like "click X cells to the right, hit enter, repeat". Every day of your life.

Sounds a lot like the 98-99 pre-trans grind prior to episode 9/Rebirth. Except we paid a monthly sub for the privilege of doing so. Those convicts just need to 'harden the f@*# up'.

[IronPlushy]

just compare economies on ragial.com.

blue herbs are 13,000 on ymir, 2,000 on valk, maneater blossoms are twice as much. I'm not talking about Top of the line gear new players will NEVER have, but just having better things than eden gear, theres no way to make money, have made 1.5m after months of playing. If you're not paying money you're not making zenny

[Agahim]

Sounds a lot like the 98-99 pre-trans grind prior to episode 9/Rebirth. Except we paid a monthly sub for the privilege of doing so. Those convicts just need to 'harden the f@*# up'.

the only difference is you guys did it voluntairly while the prisoners were forced to.
i can't believe you try to justify slavary by saying the work they have to do could be worse.

that's like telling the united states negro-slaves from 150 years ago that they shouldn't complain about having to pick cotton or building railroads since at least they're not building pyramids in the desert for the pharao.

Edited by Agahim, 10 December 2011 - 03:58 PM.

[lainee]

i can't believe you try to justify slavary by saying the work they have to do could be worse.

You have unusual skills of comprehension or a lack of ability to identify humor (as lame as my attempt at humor was). I don't recall attempting to justify slavery in anything that I said.