86 replies to this topic

[ZeroX1999]

There are no good way to put this. Please please please don't let the skill patch go up. Right now everything is good as it is.

Rune Knight seriously got shafted on this "skill patch". Rune Knights have nothing now. They seriously cannot fit into any role and they are sucking bad. First they nerf Frenzy, saying that it was unbalanced that an agi 1 LORD KNIGHT can almost go 190 aspd with Two handed quicken. It is not broken when you consider the fact that it is supposed to be good as G-Fist. G-Fist is an all or nothing attack right? It basically kills one man instantly. At what cost you may ask? All the SP and no natural sp or hp regen for 5 min on a MONK? What bull crap is that? Frenzy makes a LORD KNIGHT lose the ability to chat, use items, change weapons, get healed, use skills, no natural sp for 5 min(sounds familiar no?), all def reduced to 0(seriously?), flee reduced by 50%(wow good lord) AND HP is reduced by 5% of Max HP every 15 seconds, basically 1% of our health every 3 seconds. Lets say no one hits me for the full duration we only last about 285 seconds and that is assuming that we don't get hit at all. We can't even use skills during this. And for what? Higher aspd (that doesn't stack anymore), x3 HP (that decays over time a very short amount of time if someone is hitting you), double atk (our attack is really greatly reduced by neutral cards and race cards and natural def)*(the double attack is only for base attack not weapons or upgrades or even skills)**, and to make matters worse a priest can Aspersio the LORD KNIGHT and make him useless against the EMP. MONK does not have this restriction and G-Fist is always a Neutral attack(I know taht skills don't work on EMP but at lease making a Monk's hand holy doesn't change he damage to people in WOE). Wow.... just wow... WTF just happened here? Did the Lord Knight just got shafted? I would say that as a yes.

Now they want to nerf Ignition Break*, Hundred Spear**, Dragon Breath***, Clashing Spiral****, and any offensive rune. Great job Gravity, way to balance this by nerfing the Knight class to the ground while barely changing anything about Sura. Sura can still snap in WOE which is retarded because of the abuse people use it for. Ever faced a guild that had a Sura leave an after image that you cannot attack? Yea... I am talking about that. Also have you also noticed that no one can catch up to a snapping Sura except another snapping Sura? And the fact they they seem invincible when in the middle of snapping?

Really Gravity? Really?

I refuse to believe that the Knight class are tanks now, when armor doesn't make a big difference, our HP mod are only better than RG by 4k-5k now. We also don't have anything to reduce damage. But a Monk with Mental Strength could reduce 90% damage. Are you serious that Knights are tanks? The only reason Rune Knights are even in WOE now is because of Storm Blast rune, CS, and Dragon Breath. They have no other uses and you want to take everything that a Rune Knight has a nerf bat, no...worse a nerf machine gun... no even worse than that, a nerf nuke without a chance to change the launching codes?

So, I would like to ask, no, PLEAD ON MY KNEES AND WITH MY FACE ON THE GROUND, PLEASE FOR THE LORD OF THE RO GODS AND THE GOOD LORD IN HEAVEN, PLEASE DON'T UPDATE THE SERVER UNTIL YOU GET ALL THE KINKS OUT!

*Ignition Break formula might as well be the same, it does nothing extra ordinary and cannot reach over 15k damage that most classes seem to be able to.
**Hundred Spear formula might as well be used as a scribble on a toilet paper sheet and wiped off because it barely does x2 of the new CS for double its sp cost.
***Dragon Breath has the same formula but the MHP is going to be nerfed so....
****Clashing Spiral damage is reduced by 66%.... wtf? I used to do 25k to almost all monsters that don't have high def. Now? I only do 8-9k? Huh? Why couldn't you make it scale with attack more and base level? So there wouldn't be a complaint about how a level 70 Lord Knight could pick up a spear and do that damage, 25k scale it with something then not just weight.

[Ali0510]

****Clashing Spiral damage is reduced by 66%.... wtf? I used to do 25k to almost all monsters that don't have high def. Now? I only do 8-9k? Huh? Why couldn't you make it scale with attack more and base level? So there wouldn't be a complaint about how a level 70 Lord Knight could pick up a spear and do that damage, 25k scale it with something then not just weight.

CS + Lots of STR + Gloomy + lex = 200k DMG

I'm a Rune knight and the balance patch doesn't bother me...

[IronFist]

HURRY UP WITH THE PATCH ALREADY!!

[ZeroX1999]

CS + Lots of STR + Gloomy + lex = 200k DMG

I'm a Rune knight and the balance patch doesn't bother me...

If you made a Minstral and Priest Slave I guess it isn't too bad, but for most of us that don't have these I would rather the CS scale with something else a little more so the problem of "Oh look a level 50 Lord Knight just picked up a pike and is doing 15k damage" could be solved and give a chance for RK to do something.

Even if you think the CS is fine I don't believe a lot of RK players would agree(until they prove me wrong I guess). Also, Hundred Spear is supposed to be the replacement of CS but it does no damage and scales with lighter spears? The damage from Hundred Spears is not even comparable to CS. I am building my character to have 99 str + (whatever from items) and I reallly don't see how much more damage there can be from Hundred Spears or CS.

They also need to change Ignition Break, as a 3rd class skill it should start doing about 25-30k damage or somewhere in the 20k, looking at people use skills on the punching bag makes me sad when I realize that Rune Knights can barely get over the 15k hurdle.

[Pril]

You talk about frenzy as if people actually use it.

GFist is getting nerfed, just fyi.

Ignition break is getting buffed, not nerfed.

CS doing 100k+ damage as soon as you get it was obviously flagged as something wrong. You're saying it shouldn't be changed because you liked the way it was.

Hundred spear is getting a lot more damage. How on Earth can you consider it a nerf? You're also not realizing that there's a weapon that will be make hundred spear's damage a lot better.

Pretty much, QQ I want to remain OP forever, no?

[slwl1]

u know i think there is a lot of this thread coming out LOL they want to be OP foreverrrr LOL

[ZeroX1999]

You talk about frenzy as if people actually use it.

GFist is getting nerfed, just fyi.

Ignition break is getting buffed, not nerfed.

CS doing 100k+ damage as soon as you get it was obviously flagged as something wrong. You're saying it shouldn't be changed because you liked the way it was.

Hundred spear is getting a lot more damage. How on Earth can you consider it a nerf? You're also not realizing that there's a weapon that will be make hundred spear's damage a lot better.

Pretty much, QQ I want to remain OP forever, no?

Cs never did 100k damage as soon as you get it, only 5k if you consider the level 1.

Hundred Spear might be getting more damage but it does nothing close to CS, which it should as a 3rd class skill. Right now RK has barely anything that goes over 15k damage consistently without buff. Other class still have damages like that.

As for Frenzy, people would use it if the aspd increase stacks with two handed quicken because it allows you to kill the emp that much faster with hp to buffer you. The nerf of the aspd of frenzy not stacking with two handed quicken made frenzy a liability rather than a tool to take down the emp.

Did you know that the only nerf to G-Fist to is the spam time? The only thing they changed was that G-Fist disables sp regen items for 10 seconds. That is all. They didn't even nerf the damage stating "Because it is an all or nothing attack". Yeah... what a load of bull. Frenzy is the true all or nothing attack not G-Fist when it can be spammed every 10 seconds.

Did you even read the OP? I clearly posted on the bottom that the Ignition Break is basically a better version of Bowling Bash that can't reach 15k for a 3rd class skill.

Edited by ZeroX1999, 12 December 2011 - 12:46 AM.

[ZeroX1999]

u know i think there is a lot of this thread coming out LOL they want to be OP foreverrrr LOL

I see how RK are overpowered, but at least give a buff to us for the nerfs we are going through. RK are not OP btw, when Suras can still snap in WOE and use Gate of Hell to basically kill your entire party in one shot. RG with their broken exceed break and aoe reflect of a g-fist to surrounding area to kill the caster and anyone not an ally around him. An assassin that is going crit with poison and EDP killing you in an instant because flee doesn't matter and the poison being so super effective that even a RK cannot tank the damage over time because it hurts that much. Right.... RK are OP and will always be OP(sarcasm is heavy here for those who tend to ignore such things).

Edited by ZeroX1999, 12 December 2011 - 12:38 AM.

[Pril]

I see how RK are overpowered, but at least give a buff to us for the nerfs we are going through. RK are not OP btw, when Suras can still snap in WOE and use Gate of Hell to basically kill your entire party in one shot. RG with their broken exceed break and aoe reflect of a g-fist to surrounding area to kill the caster and anyone not an ally around him. An assassin that is going crit with poison and EDP killing you in an instant because flee doesn't matter and the poison being so super effective that even a RK cannot tank the damage over time because it hurts that much. Right.... RK are OP and will always be OP(sarcasm is heavy here for those who tend to ignore such things).

You realize that the exceed break and reflect fix that is coming with the update is the update you're asking to not have?

Crushing strike is being made to be better than RG's old exceed break.

Have you read the OP? You didn't say anything about ignition break being a better version of bowling bash.

[XIII_Eraser]

I see how RK are overpowered, but at least give a buff to us for the nerfs we are going through. RK are not OP btw, when Suras can still snap in WOE and use Gate of Hell to basically kill your entire party in one shot. RG with their broken exceed break and aoe reflect of a g-fist to surrounding area to kill the caster and anyone not an ally around him. An assassin that is going crit with poison and EDP killing you in an instant because flee doesn't matter and the poison being so super effective that even a RK cannot tank the damage over time because it hurts that much. Right.... RK are OP and will always be OP(sarcasm is heavy here for those who tend to ignore such things).

I pretty much agreed to everything you said except for this last one. RKs are OP. They can speed pot their way into a castle get into an emp and storm blast it killing everyone around the emp doesn't that sound OP to you? Also don't make it sound like GX>RK because its not' once a GX starts critting an RK if RK gets hurt enough it will storm blast which instantly kills the GX. For everything else I agree with you RKs shouldn't be nerfed this hard

[ZeroX1999]

You realize that the exceed break and reflect fix that is coming with the update is the update you're asking to not have?

Crushing strike is being made to be better than RG's old exceed break.

Have you read the OP? You didn't say anything about ignition break being a better version of bowling bash.

The exceed break and reflect fix are in the patch and I would say most people would be glad it is gone because of the bug associated with it. But you have to realize that BUG FIXES are not that same as a nerf. I guess reflect got nerfed but still can dish out the damage it needs to kill a Sura and the party around if it is based on the RG's MHP.

Crushing Strike might be better than the old Exceed Break but you can only carry around 10 runes of this spell and also has a 1 min delay on use. I admit that the RG needed alot of prep to use the old broken Exceed Break but at lease they can keep using it without a limit because of a rune. Also the cost of making a rune is never really that cheap compared to using skills and having the weapons in inventory.

I know I haven't said anything about Ignition Break being a better version of BB, I was trying to get the point across that the damage does not exceed over 15k for something that is 3rd class and pretty costly skill for a RK. CS practically does not waste sp at all because of 30 sp cost compared to a 55 sp.

[ZeroX1999]

The GMs will not read this thread. The balance patch will cum next week, and RKs will be even weaker. You may as well start making your genetic or shura.

I know that you are right. But maybe God would be smiling on me and the GMs post back on this thread to tell us that RK won't be crap with the up coming patch.

Another sad fact is that your completely right about making a genetic or shura since they don't seem to like nerfing the sura at all.

[xinn]

sigh... this post.. checking up on things and this just kinda makes me Lol.
--
Ok for starters no to your opposition, Have a problem? (Solution) Jump on your nearist iRO sakaray tesking client and find a way to make your negitive into a positive try out new builds/weapons to go with it.

and yes i do realize you are 12 and started playing when renewal hit so i wouldn't suggest that you know what decent gaming mechanics where
maybe if you played 09 or earlyer till now then you might get a glimpse of some what equal gaming mechanics. <--this is just a statement by looking at yout name/profile

[slwl1]

Common u all got to admit rk are just godly 50k hp with stormblast isn't that OP? You can just go into a emp and storm blast all the way this balance patch is good as to make rk as a tanker like prerenewal and not a godlike stormblast killer which 1hko almost all classes.and I know that stupid threadt like this is going to be everywhere sura saying I need my gfist rk say I need my dragon breath and stormblast and etc etc

[Dreimdal]

There are no good way to put this. Please please please don't let the skill patch go up. Right now everything is good as it is.

Rune Knight seriously got shafted on this "skill patch". Rune Knights have nothing now. They seriously cannot fit into any role and they are sucking bad. First they nerf Frenzy, saying that it was unbalanced that an agi 1 LORD KNIGHT can almost go 190 aspd with Two handed quicken. It is not broken when you consider the fact that it is supposed to be good as G-Fist. G-Fist is an all or nothing attack right? It basically kills one man instantly. At what cost you may ask? All the SP and no natural sp or hp regen for 5 min on a MONK? What bull crap is that? Frenzy makes a LORD KNIGHT lose the ability to chat, use items, change weapons, get healed, use skills, no natural sp for 5 min(sounds familiar no?), all def reduced to 0(seriously?), flee reduced by 50%(wow good lord) AND HP is reduced by 5% of Max HP every 15 seconds, basically 1% of our health every 3 seconds. Lets say no one hits me for the full duration we only last about 285 seconds and that is assuming that we don't get hit at all. We can't even use skills during this. And for what? Higher aspd (that doesn't stack anymore), x3 HP (that decays over time a very short amount of time if someone is hitting you), double atk (our attack is really greatly reduced by neutral cards and race cards and natural def)*(the double attack is only for base attack not weapons or upgrades or even skills)**, and to make matters worse a priest can Aspersio the LORD KNIGHT and make him useless against the EMP. MONK does not have this restriction and G-Fist is always a Neutral attack(I know taht skills don't work on EMP but at lease making a Monk's hand holy doesn't change he damage to people in WOE). Wow.... just wow... WTF just happened here? Did the Lord Knight just got shafted? I would say that as a yes.

Now they want to nerf Ignition Break*, Hundred Spear**, Dragon Breath***, Clashing Spiral****, and any offensive rune. Great job Gravity, way to balance this by nerfing the Knight class to the ground while barely changing anything about Sura. Sura can still snap in WOE which is retarded because of the abuse people use it for. Ever faced a guild that had a Sura leave an after image that you cannot attack? Yea... I am talking about that. Also have you also noticed that no one can catch up to a snapping Sura except another snapping Sura? And the fact they they seem invincible when in the middle of snapping?

Really Gravity? Really?

Are you serious that Knights are tanks? The only reason Rune Knights are even in WOE now is because of Storm Blast rune, CS, and Dragon Breath. They have no other uses and you want to take everything that a Rune Knight has a nerf bat, no...worse a nerf machine gun... no even worse than that, a nerf nuke without a chance to change the launching codes?

So, I would like to ask, no, PLEAD ON MY KNEES AND WITH MY FACE ON THE GROUND, PLEASE FOR THE LORD OF THE RO GODS AND THE GOOD LORD IN HEAVEN, PLEASE DON'T UPDATE THE SERVER UNTIL YOU GET ALL THE KINKS OUT!

*Ignition Break formula might as well be the same, it does nothing extra ordinary and cannot reach over 15k damage that most classes seem to be able to.
**Hundred Spear formula might as well be used as a scribble on a toilet paper sheet and wiped off because it barely does x2 of the new CS for double its sp cost.
***Dragon Breath has the same formula but the MHP is going to be nerfed so....
****Clashing Spiral damage is reduced by 66%.... wtf? I used to do 25k to almost all monsters that don't have high def. Now? I only do 8-9k? Huh? Why couldn't you make it scale with attack more and base level? So there wouldn't be a complaint about how a level 70 Lord Knight could pick up a spear and do that damage, 25k scale it with something then not just weight.

Storm Blast still rocks. Hundred Spears will be the new Spiral. I don't know what to say about ignition break... you may have a point there.

Dragon Breath will still rock, but only if you have decent gear (this was true pre-balance as well), and only at high levels. This is a flaw, and it really should have been made more useful at lower levels.


What I personally dislike most about the RK changes are the max HP nerf (wish they would've just changed the DB formula itself) and also that enchant blade is unusable on other people (no more more using RK as part of buff slave line-up).

Again, Storm Blast and DB will still rock. Look at the formulas.


Don't even compare RKs to Suras. Storm Blast easily owns Suras. Watch some of Hayroh's recent WoE videos, the ones where he's playing an RK, and count up how many Suras he pwns in each vid. Watch how many times he's fisted, yet still survives.

And no, knights are not tanks. Whenever I play an FS, I always loathe having to heal knights and paladins. They have huge HP, but they also tend to take TONS of damage. A more useful tank is one that does not take gobs of damage. Healers tend to hate having to spam heal on one person constantly. Kind of takes away their ability to heal and buff anyone else...

Suras can still snap in WOE and use Gate of Hell to basically kill your entire party in one shot.

This is a myth and needs to stop being perpetuated. GoH is single target, does significantly less damage than GFist, and is ranged (blocked by pneuma). If your whole party is getting wiped, then it's because you're all standing still and letting it happen. Lay down a pneuma or two or three. Have some people attack while one is getting hit.

Again, GoH can damage one character at a time. Your parties must be doing something incredibly wrong, or it's a very small party, if you're being GoH'ed to death by one Sura.


I can turn it around and make it work both ways too: A single RK can storm blast a whole guild, they can DB traps, they're dragon breath damage isn't reducible by standard WoE gears, blah blah blah. And remember that both Storm Blast and Dragon Breath are AoE.
GFist, GoH, and Knuckle Arrow are all single-target.


Just look at this, watch, and learn.

Edited by Dreimdal, 12 December 2011 - 04:40 AM.

[SirDouglas]

No player skill. Just span storm blast/ygg all time

I'm happy with the nerfs.

Edited by SirDouglas, 12 December 2011 - 04:34 AM.

[CeruleanGamer]

Oh cool, another Sura QQ thread. How many of these do we get in a week?

Can't wait for the "GX is so OP" threads after the balance patch release.

[Channa]

I'm not looking forward to the update either. it seems like they are taking away skills from classes. Half the skills in the skill tree are crappy as it is. I'm glad my wanderer is almost 150, buz there is be no way in hell i can level her anymore since severe rainstorm is nerfed to . I may as well just gypsy kiss in parties.... and wonder why the heck it's even worth being a wanderer.

I wonder why the hell they give up skills in our tree when they are totally worthless to use in the first place....

[Xellie]

to make matters worse a priest can Aspersio the LORD KNIGHT and make him useless against the EMP.

What is deadly armor?

***Dragon Breath has the same formula but the MHP is going to be nerfed so....

Have you tested how racial modifiers work with dragons breath now? You can argue it's a ninja buff.

****Clashing Spiral damage is reduced by 66%.... wtf? I used to do 25k to almost all monsters that don't have high def. Now? I only do 8-9k? Huh? Why couldn't you make it scale with attack more and base level? So there wouldn't be a complaint about how a level 70 Lord Knight could pick up a spear and do that damage, 25k scale it with something then not just weight.

Weapons will come out in later patches that bring it back to it's former glory, all good.

Don't see you qqing about crushing strike tho? sup with that?

[razirazo]

i dont really mind about CS nerf but EB change really makes my RK a crap.

[Kadelia]

Oh cool, another Sura QQ thread. How many of these do we get in a week?

Can't wait for the "GX is so OP" threads after the balance patch release.

iRO's customization to allow backslide needs to go. that's part of why GX would be so OP'd. Heim said iRO customizations will go when the balance patch comes, I hope he was including the backslide change with that,

While they are at it they should disable bwings so you can stay and die like a brave soldier after being snared.

Edited by Jaye, 12 December 2011 - 05:37 AM.

[CeruleanGamer]

iRO's customization to allow backslide needs to go. that's part of why GX would be so OP'd. Heim said iRO customizations will go when the balance patch comes, I hope he was including the backslide change with that,

While they are at it they should disable bwings so you can stay and die like a brave soldier after being snared.

I would like to die like a brave soldier but I will have to give your +12 gears credit for it and not you unfortunately.

[Hrothmund]

mobility skills should be an "all or nothing" thing in woe. they are either all enabled, or all disabled. champs having snap enabled hasnt made sense since well, trans update really when snap no longer required build sacrifices/choices (which was the justification for monks vs theives back then).

Edited by Hrothmund, 12 December 2011 - 05:42 AM.

[Kadelia]

I would like to die like a brave soldier but I will have to give your +12 gears credit for it and not you unfortunately.

Because +12 immune nydhoggur and Cranial Neutral Shield amplify outgoing damage?

[Xellie]

I would like to die like a brave soldier but I will have to give your +12 gears credit for it and not you unfortunately.

Something about fiberlocking someone for 40 minutes comes to mind.