305 replies to this topic

[Clogon]

If anything, unnerf LR's cast time (actually, how fast is it with Sacrament? I haven't seen this tested yet.)

LR is full variable. You can instant cast it with the right build.

And I agree with you this has negligible effect in PVM/MVP especially if you are well geared. I am more worried about the WoE side of it. 10s in War is a lot!

[Unifan]

i think the main point most sura try to prove is in pvm matters where it comes to MVP competition between Sura Vs Genetic. Genetic acid bomb still dealt the same damage and it is very well the BEST class to mvp (non ghost type). imagine if a sura and genetic meet for killing valk/morroc. when the sura hits 1.2m gfist on morroc ( first hit ) they will have to wait 10 sec (tanking, spaming pots because gfist is not range) while genetic spend their time bombing 250k acid bomb/sec thats about 2.5m acid bomb. now the sura will still have to zen/fury/zen gfist which will give them about 4-7sec if depend on how fast they are, and by the time they get zen/fury/zen of the mvp is -_-in dead cuz genetic out dmg them and has all da advantage. now be4 pre balance everything feels perfect, sura had more chance of winning but that doesn't mean genetic can't win, but it was a good comp between those 2 character, and ironplush, stfu, u know nothing about sura, just because u died to KA with no strings, and die to gfist with 20 sp doesn't make the class over power, its just that ur so bad, u shud just quit rofl

[Razgriz]

Welcome to Ragnarok... lol

If you want to avoid the 10 seconds penalty in WoE, just stop Gfisting whoever cross your path and do other things like GoH or KA... leave the gfist as a last resort skill and fist whoever you think it's important to kill...

Other than that, you can still use Speed Pots just like "every other class" (except Thief class and maybe ninjas...)

This, seriously

[Unifan]

thats crap, how bout GXes now, they can EDP chain CI and spam backslide like mad, and they have cloak and doesnt cost all sp and dnt have to zen fury zen rofl, putting cool down on gfist i get but putting cool down on sp recovery is bull-_-

[Clogon]

spam backslide like mad

Enabling Backslide in WoE is an iRO customization which should be removed with the patch just like all others.

[Asea]

imo they should nerf gfist to make it so that after you fist you can't use SP for 10 seconds

[Zeniachan]

LR is full variable. You can instant cast it with the right build.

And I agree with you this has negligible effect in PVM/MVP especially if you are well geared. I am more worried about the WoE side of it. 10s in War is a lot!

Ah okay. I thought part of it was fixed but that was just off the top of my head ^^; (I never even used LR before, either...lol)

It still seems like a lot of people are QQing about the PvM/MVP side of it. Really, kids need to stop being spoiled. Play the game and grow up, start hunting (or saving up zeny) for better gears. Mine are nowhere near perfect, but they're not completely terribad either.

You could pretty much argue that Suras being OP = bulls*** to counter every argument saying nerfing Suras = bulls*** (because that would make playing a Sura challenging...like it should be, OMGZ!) As long as Suras can do awesome things that other classes can't do, this argument will happen every time Suras get nerfed. I might as well just step out of the s***storm for now. Lol

[DeltaRay]

imo they should nerf acid bomb make it so that after you acid bomb you loose all sp and you can't use SP for 10 seconds.

[IronPlushy]

imo they should nerf acid bomb make it so that after you acid bomb you loose all sp and you can't use SP for 10 seconds.

thought g fist was much muich more powerful and didnt require ingredients

[Xellie]

thought g fist was much muich more powerful and didnt require ingredients

Yet you need to use SP items for fist and not for bomb.

SP items cost more.

The damage output is not very different for the same cost.

[HyperFrost]

Well, in tRO, in an MvP competition a Sura could just pneuma, fist the mvp, tank it and laugh at the Geneticist while he waits for 10 seconds.

Not sure if that's feasible in iRO though.

[sayoko]

i think that a damage cap against mvps would be the only fix........ maybe 200k? then they can remove this sp delay thing, IF the mvp 1 shot its the main problem

[Xellie]

Well, in tRO, in an MvP competition a Sura could just pneuma, fist the mvp, tank it and laugh at the Geneticist while he waits for 10 seconds.

Not sure if that's feasible in iRO though.

bannable in the past, dunno if that changed.

[Okii]

Sorcerers still have a delay ?
I don't think they should hinder team play between Sorcs and Suras (soul exhale to replenish some SP after gfist)
BUT I do 100% agree with a 10 second (or more) gfist cooldown instead of a total sp shutdown.
However, if a MVP is knocking you around after Gfist, you can fly wing...

If sorcerers were the only means within those ten seconds (I feel it should be allowed immediately afterwards),
then sorcerers and scholars would see a lot more MVPing and it would promote party play a little more.
I like that sp recovery items have been stalled though.


Anyways, I don't know much so I'll leave it at that.

Edited by Okii, 16 December 2011 - 07:44 PM.

[Clogon]

bannable in the past, dunno if that changed.

It should be changed cause there isn't anything else a Sura can do during that 10s and stay competitve.

[MagicHands]

Ok let me explain why a lot of these people have no clue what there talking about, especially some of the newer players that come in and run there mouth like they have any clue about what there talking about. First Saftey Wall doesnt spill over anymore, so being that a warlock and AB can practically save anyone from a gfist means that Gfist has lost its overpoweredness.
Secondly, there are plenty of classes with one shotting abilities that do NOT have this crap of an after effect. Seriously you have practically made my sura almost useless after fisting, besides the fact Suras are completely run with HP and SP Consuming skills. I will argue tooth and nail about this considering that you guys dont have a legitimate arguement other than your just have no clue as to how hard gfist was nerfed.

[MagicHands]

I wouldnt care about a 30-1 minute reuse delay on fisting to be honest. This is taking away a lot of what I enjoy about RO in the first place, this game used to be very fast paced and even though you might of had 4-8 people coming at you by yourself if you reacted fast enough and were geared well enough, you could kill them all or delay them untill help arrives. This 10 second delay in sp items kills that fast paced action for suras and other players as well. I guess the people that want this really enjoy beating up wet noodles called Sura.

[Aeroku]

@clogon: after cast delay term i got wrong, supposed to be simply 'cool down'

and to others...i suggest you read previous posts earlier page. i've explained the pro's and con's of the proposed idea in detail, what it does in woe/pvm/mvp situation.

suras already got literally all their main skills toned down (buffs nerfed, LR having cast time while not even powerful at all compared to many skills in the game, gfist delay), they're a crucial class in terms of mvp'ing, so does woe/pvp. but the problem im seeing here is that you guys are hating sura's so much down to the point that you guys don't care about how much sura is nerfed...

i have the mind of pre-re, wanting to bring back what is fair to sura's (literally, monk classes). again, i'm not asking much. i never said 10 sec gfist delay needs to be removed, its just to tone down the nerf. sura's are overall a damage dealer, but they're now fairly easy to be competed by a decent genetic (as i've told before, i own a genetic and i do high end mvp's on it as well). sura's are being nerfed to a point of 'not worth a player's worth' with the way it is going, and other people are simply saying "nerf it to crap" to enjoy their classes.

[MagicHands]

Edited by MagicHands, 16 December 2011 - 08:44 PM.

[Unifan]

pneumaing mvp is a skill abuse. skill abuse is a banable offense, so wether it is pre balance/balance patch pneumaing mvp to win againts genetic is prety -_-ed up. sura became a joke now, for the people that never experience sura wouldn't know because all they do is QQing about how OP sura are, instead of figuring out how to counter sura, god people just doesn't know wat smokie card do and gfist has a cast time

[D111]

Glad to see the post still open, Also there are alot of decent ideas throughout.

All in all I hope the GM's see the SP regen delay is a Bad Idea.

[Kaiji]

Gfist is like Rock Lee's ultimate taijutsu = 8 chakra gates
Garra should have been dead, too bad he wear ghostring card

[Weeeelium]

It is supposed to be an extreme skill which consumes all your energy to deal massive damage, no other skill can deal this kind of damage in one hit. So 10 seconds to recover from such an extreme skill isn't that bad imo.

Have you seen the new crs?

[kite24]

Enabling Backslide in WoE is an iRO customization which should be removed with the patch just like all others.

I don't want to mislead threads but I agree with this one.

And again.. With gfist being a pre-rebirth skill.. I think it deserves the huge sp problem afterwards.

[Aeroku]

gfist being a pre-rebirth skill is not an excuse for it to be nerfed down to hell. many skills that are pre-rebirth are stronger than 3rd skills, and if you were to fix anything from that reason, then there is pretty much a lot of skills that i can consider broken as well. naming 1, magic string.

gfist back then were still the most used and useful skill back during champion era, regardless of its pre-rebirth status.

Edited by Aeroku, 16 December 2011 - 09:14 PM.