222 replies to this topic

[slwl1]

It's not a compromise anymore. Before, it was a compromise. VIPs would get warps, and non-vips could do the same things with the vips, but would have to walk and get slightly less exp.

Now the way they're doing it is simply a cheap trick. Give stuff to people until they take it for granted, and then slap a fee on it or nerf it. "Create a need, and then fulfill it for only 6.99 a month"�?�


A telecom company tried to do that with our bill once. "But do not worry, you will keep the same services you've always had, with the same speed you always had, but only for a cheap increase of 10%!"
Guess what happened. We switched companies faster than Colbert can say "Ham Rove".


On a sidenote, that's totally what every countries should do for the poors. First, offer a good number of them shelters, then, when they get used to it, make them choose between paying a normal appartment fee for it, or sharing it with 5 other people. Then, give them the choice to pay for electricity or to get out. A bit later, make them choose between paying normal appartment fees or getting out. Finally, institute a law making it illegal to sleep outside within ~20 miles of town.
That sounds strangely like what's happening. The servers turned f2p, wihch was like oppening the shelters, then we were forced to either pay the appartment or share it with 5 people (all the quests and free food and extra exp for VIP we're losing out on). Now, they want us to pay to get electricity (levels) through the only reasonable mean. Do you really want us to reach that point?

last time it was worst they made a free valk server and guess what no vitata card no creamy no teleport no warp portal can't refine anything the drop from the monster half lol but a lot of people went into tat server and enjoyed it

[Inubashiri]

It's not a compromise anymore. Before, it was a compromise. VIPs would get warps, and non-vips could do the same things with the vips, but would have to walk, get slightly less exp, and being unable to put all exp into base or job.

Now the way they're doing it is simply a cheap trick. Give stuff to people until they take it for granted, and then slap a fee on it or nerf it. "Create a need, and then fulfill it for only 6.99 a month"™


A telecom company tried to do that with our bill once. "But do not worry, you will keep the same services you've always had, with the same speed you always had, but only for a cheap increase of 10%!"
Guess what happened. We switched companies faster than Colbert can say "Ham Rove".


On a sidenote, that's totally what every countries should do for the poors. First, offer a good number of them shelters, then, when they get used to it, make them choose between paying a normal appartment fee for it, or sharing it with 5 other people. Then, give them the choice to pay for electricity or to get out. A bit later, make them choose between paying normal appartment fees or getting out. Finally, institute a law making it illegal to sleep outside within ~20 miles of town.
That sounds strangely like what's happening. The servers turned f2p, wihch was like oppening the shelters, then we were forced to either pay the appartment or share it with 5 people (all the quests and free food and extra exp for VIP we're losing out on). Now, they want us to pay to get electricity (levels) through the only reasonable mean. Do you really want us to reach that point?

PS: with (as off writting) current gramps, you could implement kafra shop wings which would let people warp to the week's dungeons. That would increase revenue, make NOBODY mad, and fix the problem we're having with juperos parties and the like inviting only VIP players.COnsidering how the kafra shop is addictive, it might even generate more revenue than whatever other solution that would aim at making more people become VIP.

PPS: I need to stop rereading it and rewriting things.

I was speaking to the whole, not any one specific issue.

[Fureedo]

last time it was worst they made a free valk server and guess what no vitata card no creamy no teleport no warp portal can't refine anything the drop from the monster half lol but a lot of people went into tat server and enjoyed it

Erm, I've been playing since the start of valkyrie server. no vitata, and creamy wasn't bad. The 50% rate we were supposed to have didn't last. We could make warp portals wtf is that? and having all the warps from pront made it oki. And we could refine wtf are you talking about? you're sure you're not talking about the crappy free pRO server? And we could teleport with flywings...

EVEN if it was as bad as you say, which it wasn't. You got into it KNOWING it was going to be that way. Those changes weren't bad, you could work relatively easilly around them. Heck,some of the changes are what attracted people! I'm looking at you, absence of GTB card.


It's not the fact that it's bad. It's the fact that, since the GMs apparently scrapped their project of fixing the exp curve, Gramps is the only way to level. It's as if the gms oppened the server saying it was free and 1x, but then, a few months later, dropping the rates to 0.25x and introducing a VIP package that gave back the 1x. That's just wrong.


EDIT:

Inu: I'm using gramps as a precise example, but it can be used for the whole. In general, taking away from the poor, or the base, or whatever, is a bad idea. What should be done is improving the VIP withouth touching the non-vip.
If that can be done in a way where VIP and non VIP can interract with each others (like the old gramps) That's perfect. But it can be done though means like the overlook dungeon, or a free headgear, like the laurel crown or others, purely aestetic headgears, every month for VIP accounts. EDIT2: every month or a different headgear for each type of subscription...a bit like DOFUS does.So you could have a headgear for the 1 month, another for the 3 month sub, and so on, which would minimise development time compared to the "once a month for vips" thing. And you could make them vendable! so non-vip could enjoy them even if they don,t have VIP, and VIP could see it as a small way of making some money.

URg, so as you can see, there's a plethora of ways to make VIP more worthwhile while leaving non-vip untouched.

Edit 21: Someone should make my title "The edit king" ._.

Edited by Fureedo, 10 January 2012 - 12:58 PM.

[Resplendent]

I think this simply highlights the problem that TI's are now the major method for leveling in this game. Why not actually make "normal" leveling/partying worth it so people can go where they want and maybe see some of the game besides the same few maps/monsters favored for turn-ins that week? This is a separate issue from VIP vs. Non-VIP, but I think that it's honestly the more important one to focus on right now.

It's pretty sad that the only things worth playing in RO now for most people seem to be turn-ins and WoE. There's so much more to the game that could be made worth playing.

Edited by Resplendent, 10 January 2012 - 01:03 PM.

[JStoneheart]

Gramps has done so much damage to iRO comunity already. He should leave.

Experience curve from Lvs 100-150 should be doubled, to motivate people to party (seriously, getting from 101 to 102 takes like 12 hours in a 10 people party at nogg2 without BMx3)

The server was FINE before graps arrived and messed it all, making the game "Gramp's Turn-Ins Online". People choosed to go anywhere, either for leveling or farming and no-one felt the urge to be 150 in one week.

Do you want to make the community feels like we are not being milked? Banish Gramps forever (or let it "visit us" every week with the 1st configuration it had), stop selling boxes with absurd "play to win" items so often, stop implementing experience events every 2 weeks. Give us Ragnarok Online back, at least the way it was 1 year ago, I used to love playing every day, for more than 5 hours a day. Now I just want to loging for a couple of hours mostly for chatting with some friends and maybe level a bit with a TI. And I'm even considering leaving iRO and go to any pserver that offers me challenge, stability and doesn't push me to make me want to be max level now. (I've seen pservers where they never change ANYTHING for more than 2 years -exept for kRO normal updates- and their population is over 3.5k players -there are no bots since they encrypt the packets every week, making botting almost impossible, and if you get your way to bot there, you deserve to do it-)

It's not that I am really leaving, but you guys, instead of making me feel more attached to the game, all this last year's changes are pushing me away... Not only me... I'm the only one in my guild who logs in right now since none of them wan to play anymore. Not like this.

I can completely understand that this is a business and you must get a profit, but trust me when I say that is better to have 10.000 satisfied clients, paying cheap expenses than 500 paying high expenses.

Anyway, I hope you decide whatever is best for players and you, since I would also be looking for ways to keep people having fun as well getting profit if this were my business.

[meoryou2]

Gramps has done so much damage to iRO comunity already. He should leave.

Experience curve from Lvs 100-150 should be doubled, to motivate people to party (seriously, getting from 101 to 102 takes like 12 hours in a 10 people party at nogg2 without BMx3)

The server was FINE before graps arrived and messed it all, making the game "Gramp's Turn-Ins Online". People choosed to go anywhere, either for leveling or farming and no-one felt the urge to be 150 in one week.

Do you want to make the community feels like we are not being milked? Banish Gramps forever (or let it "visit us" every week with the 1st configuration it had), stop selling boxes with absurd "play to win" items so often, stop implementing experience events every 2 weeks. Give us Ragnarok Online back, at least the way it was 1 year ago, I used to love playing every day, for more than 5 hours a day. Now I just want to loging for a couple of hours mostly for chatting with some friends and maybe level a bit with a TI. And I'm even considering leaving iRO and go to any pserver that offers me challenge, stability and doesn't push me to make me want to be max level now. (I've seen pservers where they never change ANYTHING for more than 2 years -exept for kRO normal updates- and their population is over 3.5k players -there are no bots since they encrypt the packets every week, making botting almost impossible, and if you get your way to bot there, you deserve to do it-)

It's not that I am really leaving, but you guys, instead of making me feel more attached to the game, all this last year's changes are pushing me away... Not only me... I'm the only one in my guild who logs in right now since none of them wan to play anymore. Not like this.

I can completely understand that this is a business and you must get a profit, but trust me when I say that is better to have 10.000 satisfied clients, paying cheap expenses than 500 paying high expenses.

Anyway, I hope you decide whatever is best for players and you, since I would also be looking for ways to keep people having fun as well getting profit if this were my business.

Good bye, won't be missing you.

P.S. the reason your guildmates don't log on anymore most likely isn't do to "leveling is too EASY" but more to do with " leveling is so god awful boring even with gramps turnins giving large chunks of EXP. " Or did you forget why the turnins came in the first place maybe? Heres a hint: people werent leveling past 130 because it is just complete repetitive grind with almost no reward. If that is what you want than be our guest and go to a different game - 99.9% of other players do NOT want that.

[Ghost007]

Why did you quote my post if you didn't even read it? The reason I'm not buying VIP is not necessarily because I don't have the money, it's because it's not worth spending $7 a month indefinitely.
This is the problem with these forums, no one has any reading comprehension. I used the simplest wording, just one sentence, and you say I should work more.

I HAVE THE MONEY, BUT RO ISN'T WORTH IT.

i'm looking at a few of your posts, not just your one sentence, and the free game is meant for people to try it out and if they enjoy it move on to vip, pretty sure the marginal benefit is much greater then the marginal cost for it, of course the marginal benefit refering to game play

[asayuu]

EXP curves doubled and no turnins. This would encourage people to SOLO, not to party.

Maybe changing the core EXP from monsters, and improving the party settings would be enough. Actually, I'm sure everyone would party if partying did not lowered the individual gain per monster.

You lose 40% exp by partying a support class that is supposed to make you level faster [I am not talking about priests only. Examples would be the sorc giving you SP and the maestro giving strings]. This is why turnins exist. But well, to take turnins out, they need to make a system able to replace them [This is totally the real intention of the turnins]. This system is not here yet. And why not? Does kRO prefer a scrapped system where everybody solo to level?

Instead of turnins, why not extend the "party share bonus" to 50% per member and the "exp tap" back to 25% per hit?

Point is. Do you think it is fair? The "fix to the party share system" being VIP only now? So while VIPs "play properly" in the intended system, non-VIPs have to survive with a bugged share system that will encourage them to play solo... be "lonely"... quit... not calling other irl friends to play... less payers. ^^

Edited by asayuu, 10 January 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[IronPlushy]

i'm looking at a few of your posts, not just your one sentence, and the free game is meant for people to try it out and if they enjoy it move on to vip, pretty sure the marginal benefit is much greater then the marginal cost for it, of course the marginal benefit refering to game play

No videogame is worth an indefinite cost. Keep saying it's only $7, but that's $7 every single month, essentially have to decide if I want to keep playing each month. You seem to think it's silly I won't pay $7 a month, every month, for however long I maintain interest. I on the other hand think it's ridiculous that anyone would pay money for a free game. It's like your made I get for free what you have probably spent hundreds on.
There's a reason the Valk server is the most populated, even after accounting for bots. Money good, unnecessary spending bad.

[JStoneheart]

EXP curves doubled and no turnins. This would encourage people to SOLO, not to party.

Maybe changing the core EXP from monsters, and improving the party settings would be enough. Actually, I'm sure everyone would party if partying did not lowered the individual gain per monster.

You lose 40% exp by partying a support class that is supposed to make you level faster [I am not talking about priests only. Examples would be the sorc giving you SP and the maestro giving strings]. This is why turnins exist. But well, to take turnins out, they need to make a system able to replace them [This is totally the real intention of the turnins]. This system is not here yet. And why not? Does kRO prefer a scrapped system where everybody solo to level?

Instead of turnins, why not extend the "party share bonus" to 50% per member and the "exp tap" back to 25% per hit?

Point is. Do you think it is fair? The "fix to the party share system" being VIP only now? So while VIPs "play properly" in the intended system, non-VIPs have to survive with a bugged share system that will encourage them to play solo... be "lonely"... quit... not calling other irl friends to play... less payers. ^^

I've already said months ago that changing party system to a "increasing exp reward for job diversity" works better to motivate people to party than gramps TI's.

[Heimdallr]

First off EXP from monsters wasn't effected, the information that I was given was erronious, the exp is the same.

VIP should have more convenience benefits than non-VIP, gramps is an event NPC that follows that model. I can't get rid of Gramps, there is a benefit to doing so in theory but the negative would be more catastrophic to the game than leaving him in.
1. those that didn't level cap will be right here on the forums stating their feelings about how they have been trodden upon by his leaving.

2. Many groups wouldn't happen because there is no "focused" play going on in certain areas.

The 1 advantage that might happen is leveling will slow down, which in a world where everyone plays until x level is reached would mean they are playing longer. But in this world slowing players down leads to higher loss of players not increased playing time.



Now the glimmer of joy here is we are working on the warp issue with gramps so we aren't seperating people quite so much. We are working to get it in tonight if we can we will make a big to do about it.

[shurareki]

this is just a shot in the dark but what about instead of gramps have a npc in each major town that offers a TI for that towns level range they can only be done like they are now but at least people will explore or have a reason to go places or keep gramps in and do this also but make the exp less or offer a item there needs to be something that people want to explore the game not just log on do a TI log off when done. which is what it is now it seems.

and your right you cant get rid of Gramps now and that kinda sucks dont you think one NPC is what this game is now.

id like to know how may people would play a fresh server with no TI tho somewhere where it feels like a game again i know there are some hardcore players out there but they didnt start that way.

[Kadnya]

First off EXP from monsters wasn't effected, the information that I was given was erronious, the exp is the same.

VIP should have more convenience benefits than non-VIP, gramps is an event NPC that follows that model. I can't get rid of Gramps, there is a benefit to doing so in theory but the negative would be more catastrophic to the game than leaving him in.
1. those that didn't level cap will be right here on the forums stating their feelings about how they have been trodden upon by his leaving.

2. Many groups wouldn't happen because there is no "focused" play going on in certain areas.

The 1 advantage that might happen is leveling will slow down, which in a world where everyone plays until x level is reached would mean they are playing longer. But in this world slowing players down leads to higher loss of players not increased playing time.



Now the glimmer of joy here is we are working on the warp issue with gramps so we aren't seperating people quite so much. We are working to get it in tonight if we can we will make a big to do about it.

Maybe this is something you are already planning about, but how about the difference in warping between VIP and non VIP is that VIP players can be warped even if they don't have an active quest? Since generally turn in maps are mobby and nice for leveling even without a TI, that would be a nice VIP plus without taking away from anyone. I'm sure many VIP players would enjoy the warp always available.

Also, offtopic, and many times asked already, but could you make woe potion boxes tradeable? These boxes, please @@:

[Aeroku]

1. turn ins are just a bonus. people are supposedly to go and lvl the normal way, aka grinding.
2. non-vip gets access to this turn ins. hell, before VIP comes out, everyone stayed at 1x rate. no problem there

in the end? non-vip didn't get nerfed. get over it.

and this is why we can't have nice things. some people prefer to keep talking negatively in this forum, bringing ro name down. i mean sure, there's lots of drawback and bad things going on, but some people can't keep quiet. if all you can say in this forum is that ro is not worth $7 a month, keep it to yourself. we don't want to know. whether its worth it or not to spend money on a free game, everyone has their opinion; but we don't exactly want fights and negative feelings towards each other and therefore: we don't need those kind of talks.

[kasshin]

I read through the thread and I think I agree with the main point a lot of people are trying to say. Non-VIPs always had the ability to fight both monsters without an extra cost when gramps was brought in, but now that is not the case anymore. It's like it was taken away from us (non-VIPs). You can argue that turn ins weren't meant to be there or are already a bonus, but ask any non-VIP and they will tell you it feels like the right or privilege is being taken away from us.

Instead of doing that, why not give the VIPs more privileges? Let them reset every 6 hours or something, and make non-VIPs only able to reset every 23 hours?

Main point most of us are saying is GIVE VIPs more instead of TAKING AWAY from non-VIPs.

[FiskBlack]

new features for VIP? nah, lets just take away more gameplay for free 2 play to make VIP looks better

[simca437]

Many players r not getting,wat we r trying to express in this thread!(which includes even my guildies n guildleader)....we non-vips r not demanding for extra stuffs or facilities!gravity u give vips a hell lot more extra advantages,we don't care!we r just trying to tell,don't take away from us the little we have!we are accustomed to it!....and this may lead to a huge fallback of the non-vip players....also the name valkyrie server-the f2p server doesn't even serve a purpose as per the name!

[asayuu]

The raw number of parties dropped when the turnin monsters dropped to 1 monster per turn. Sometimes the expenses to kill 400 of only one kind are not enough. More even if the map requires a quest to enter.

We can't forget something else. It is not because the person is non-vip that they are not supporting the game with WPE. As I know, 90% of the reset stones and battle manuals [widely used to "level fast"] come from Kafra Shop. They buy with zeny [or time, in the case of the reset stones] but someone had to pay for it, somewhere.

And again. The ones "getting 150 too fast" are the VIPs with x3 manuals and reset stones. There is no reason to lower the gameplay for non-VIPs if the problem is in the other side. The VIPs will still "get 150 too fast", because with this logic, nothing will change for them.

[iiNote]

Maybe this is something you are already planning about, but how about the difference in warping between VIP and non VIP is that VIP players can be warped even if they don't have an active quest? Since generally turn in maps are mobby and nice for leveling even without a TI, that would be a nice VIP plus without taking away from anyone. I'm sure many VIP players would enjoy the warp always available.

Also, offtopic, and many times asked already, but could you make woe potion boxes tradeable? These boxes, please @@:

Kad you're a genious! This a 1000 times!

[kasshin]

That is quite true, and many of the Kafra Shop item buyers are also non-VIPs. Many VIPs buy those with WPE / KP, and non-VIPs buy from their vending shops or whatever with zeny. Non-VIPs still contribute greatly to the demand for such items, and somebody somewhere will spend more WPE / KP to buy more.

[Heart]

I think this simply highlights the problem that TI's are now the major method for leveling in this game. Why not actually make "normal" leveling/partying worth it so people can go where they want and maybe see some of the game besides the same few maps/monsters favored for turn-ins that week? This is a separate issue from VIP vs. Non-VIP, but I think that it's honestly the more important one to focus on right now.

It's pretty sad that the only things worth playing in RO now for most people seem to be turn-ins and WoE. There's so much more to the game that could be made worth playing.

i agree , but i have studies and exams QQ, no time to play! i cant even woe! QQ

the game is much more than juz woe and TIs but when ur limited to 1-2hrs a day, yes TI is ur first preference


Edit :

Maybe this is something you are already planning about, but how about the difference in warping between VIP and non VIP is that VIP players can be warped even if they don't have an active quest? Since generally turn in maps are mobby and nice for leveling even without a TI, that would be a nice VIP plus without taking away from anyone. I'm sure many VIP players would enjoy the warp always available.

Also, offtopic, and many times asked already, but could you make woe potion boxes tradeable? These boxes, please @@:

TOPIC GANKER D:<

Edited by Heart, 10 January 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[Amis]

No videogame is worth an indefinite cost. Keep saying it's only $7, but that's $7 every single month, essentially have to decide if I want to keep playing each month. You seem to think it's silly I won't pay $7 a month, every month, for however long I maintain interest. I on the other hand think it's ridiculous that anyone would pay money for a free game. It's like your made I get for free what you have probably spent hundreds on.
There's a reason the Valk server is the most populated, even after accounting for bots. Money good, unnecessary spending bad.

$7 a month for something you spend how many hours doing? I spend more than that on 2 drinks at the local pub. You'd spend more than that on a game of bowling. $7 for something that enhances something you're already spending a large chunk of time doing... why not?

Nobody is mad you play the game for free. Baseline access to the game is free. I know a few great non-VIP players. What I do take offense to is Heim giving 2 seconds of thought to any suggestions you have in regards to decisions made for making the company money. You aren't spending any on it, and have no intention of doing so. Nothing they do is going to change that, so your self-interest requests are far more likely to cost them money than make it for them.

Gravity isn't the RIAA or the MPAA. They don't have a ton of money. Software development is a huge undertaking, and maintenance of old code like RO is even worse. It really irks me how ungrateful so much of this community is, as though making and maintaining games isn't work. The same kind of people, I imagine, who don't tip their waiter.

[zplus]

The same kind of people, I imagine, who don't tip their waiter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-qV9wVGb38

[IronPlushy]

Please try again with a few less insults.

Edited by Ralis, 10 January 2012 - 11:18 PM.

[Ralis]

Iron, please control yourself. We're getting tired of reminding you over and over again that you don't need to make your argument personal for it to be valid. Say what you need to say without the personal attacks, please.