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Feelings about Renewal


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#1 Heimdallr

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 01:27 PM

Renewal is a love hate thing for many. I really do want to hear about what your pre-conceived notions were, and how did they play out when you actually started testing.

What things are you uneasy about, and how would you like to see them fixed?

I will not assure that every suggestion will be done, because not only will many be exclusive suggestions, but I do want to hear how it is you play and how we can better your play experience.

If all your stuff is negative, that is ok, but please keep it polite and non-attack toned. Basically no name calling, and stick to things that we can actually test or experience ourselves so we can find common ground to understand you.
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#2 Resplendent

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 01:38 PM

First off I'm worried that the multitude of translation errors and interface/dialogue messages won't be cleaned up, making it a headache to even play as it is. Second I am worried (as a wizard/priest player) that my classes end up getting hit with the nerf stick a bit too hard with the new MATK formula. Finally I absolutely don't get why upgrade rates weren't changed from 0~10. How on earth do you expect anyone to get their gear to the highest level upgrades with the insanely low rates just to even get to +10? I get that +20 shouldn't be easy, but it shouldn't be next to impossible. This coupled with the already disused systems (because of overly difficult requirements) of cooking and forging just means it's another aspect of the game very few people will ever end up using the way it could've been. It's really a shame when you HAVE something implemented but no one bothers using it because of the annoyance factor.

Edited by Resplendent, 09 September 2010 - 01:42 PM.

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#3 Reika

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 01:43 PM

1. Don't notice any performance boost on newer graphics cards.
2a. MVPs give a ton more exp than normal monsters.
2b. Could be extremely easy leveling when people have a ton of bloody branches on current servers.
3. Cool new user interface.
4. Quite a number of bugs/glitches. I don't see renewal being ready to be implemented for another month or longer. We haven't had a chance to test with 3rd classes either.
5. Medals-to-EXP NPC should probably be taken out.
6. Translations aren't so great and engrish everywhere.
7. Quests should be fast and worth completing. While doing the Eden quests, I'm already reminded of why I hate doing quests on RO.
8. Leveling feel extremely slow.

---

As far as stat descriptions/changes go...

The wrong way to do it: Explain the stat system after a player has created their character.
The right way to do it: When creating a new character, hovering the mouse over a stat will show a window with descriptions.

Comments on Yggdrasil as premium server after testing: Don't mess it up.

Edited by Reika, 09 September 2010 - 09:05 PM.

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#4 Akihiro

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 01:44 PM

Well my biggest gripe is that it wasn't announced prior to the opening that it was only going to be open to people with a subscription, but I'm getting past it and will join in testing soon enough. Another thing that bugged me was how little effort seemed to be put into the translation. Npcs named with two or three letters at the start of their name? Anti Dote and misspelling Knuckle?

Looking through some other bug reports, Familiars in Pyramids needs to be changed, npc names need to be fixed, and skill names need to be re-thought out.
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#5 Kitten

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 01:45 PM

I second the concern with translations. There is so much to fix and I just hope the team can get to it all.

Also, some of the quest dialogue and directions needs to be made a bit more clear. I'll post specifics once maintenance is over. We have this updated Quest system that is easier to use but the dialogue is as bad as ever. I know it can't be made too easy, and that we're supposed to explore a bit, but when the NPC gives you the wrong general area... Well, that's just frustrating. You're left wondering if the NPC is missing or if the directions were simply bad.
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#6 Ultimate

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 01:55 PM

1) the GMs know how I feel about translations
2) I don't think time will be given to this issue due to the amount of resources this is already taking up.
3) I love that there is a push to get new players Heim, but I how will they find the actual game messages and content? It's fine for veterans who barely read the npcs/quests, but even as veterans I have some difficulty figuring out what enemy to kill/what to do cus the npc says one thing but kRO meant for it to do something else.
4) MOST IMPORTANT: people are very standoffish toward a new premium server. make it pvp, non woe, or something unique, because the first thing on three vents was "Ulti! What the-_- man another premium server, we just shut down the old servers and merged everyone!"

The population now is great for woe purposes, we're just very fearful about going to the new Ymir server then splitting (this is how it will be seen by the community) then having to deal with another merge down the line. Ymir is fine, you gotta make the new one pvp or something. Personally, I feel whatever about two premiums because I'm happy with the way loki was in terms of population and woe, but I think a lot of people are feeling like the GMs don't know what's going on simply because they aren't kept in the loop. The community voted several times on game changes this past year, yet now that we're faced with an equally significant change there has been no vote or request for input until now.
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#7 Axylus

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 01:59 PM

I'm really enjoying Renewal so far. :)

The following things worry me:

  • If casual players aren't given a guide to the changes, they may become confused and quit playing.
  • The scaling of item drop chances based on your character's base level.
  • Safety Wall has been made mostly useless because of the low amount of damage it can absorb.

Edited by richard, 26 March 2012 - 03:26 AM.

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#8 TurrTurr

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 02:02 PM

Questions/Concerns

1.) You guys are rushing this, one week is not nearly enough time. This IS the biggest update this game has ever received, and to expect all the testing to be done in a week, is quite frankly, stupid.
2.) Adding another premium server; just a bad idea in general.
3.) The use of certain "iRO exclusive" headgears, this stuff wasn't on kRO. So it was impossible to test. Will my zodiac headgears be completely worthless now?
4.) Will iRO change certain aspects of renewal to suit us better, or are we stuck with whatever we get?
5.) How up-to-date is this renewal exactly? kRO just recently buffed Rangers after waiting forever, will we have to wait forever for those buffs to?
6.) Advertising, try it. It works.

Edited by TurrTurr, 09 September 2010 - 02:03 PM.

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#9 Resplendent

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 02:08 PM

I also agree a week isn't nearly enough time to work the bugs and mistranslations out. Unless a fine toothed comb is going through EVERYTHING in the background and we're just picking up the leftovers, a lot is going to get looked over. If renewal gets implemented on Ymir and Valkyrie that's even remotely as bad as it is now, you're gonna have a riot on your hands.
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#10 ZeroTigress

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 02:11 PM

Nothing chases off a newbie quicker than a badly-translated tutorial and very vague quest NPCs. Better, more precise, and CLEARER translations and corrections must be made if we're going to have any chance of getting new players into RO.

I like how Renewal will allow the game to be more friendly to low-levels and mid-levels and the new interface is generally an improvement over the old one, but there's still much more that needs to be done to make the game better. Crafting especially needs MAJOR changes in order to entice any player to do them. (Ingredients and success rates need to be reevaluated.)
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#11 Wanderer

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 02:16 PM

1. Don't notice any performance boost on newer graphics cards.
2a. MVPs give a ton more exp than normal monsters.
2b. Could be extremely easy leveling when people have a ton of bloody branches on current servers.
3. Cool new user interface.
4. Quite a number of bugs/glitches. I don't see renewal being ready to be implemented for another month or longer. We haven't had a chance to test with 3rd classes either.
5. Medals-to-EXP NPC should probably be taken out.
6. Translations aren't so great and engrish everywhere.


This.

People can literally stock levels on blank cards to power level past 99 when it hits mains.
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#12 Kitten

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 02:33 PM

This.

People can literally stock levels on blank cards to power level past 99 when it hits mains.


The conversion rates change to roughly 1/10 of what they are now, making them give a comparable amount of EXP to what the currently give.

They can't simply take the system out, as those items were fairly earned either ingame or through boxes (well maybe not "fairly" on Valk, as most Blanks are botted). Besides, anyone who has attempted to level a trans character with Prize Medals knows you need an insane amount to level past level 90 or so. Trust me, people won't "power" past using Prize Medals. They might have a small advantage but it is hardly game breaking unless someone has stored up tens of thousands of them and that in unlikely.

Prize Medals have always been most useful for getting the last few levels of a second class character out of the way. They're not so useful for Transcended characters and will be even less useful for Third Class.
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#13 KittySuperstar

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 02:36 PM

1) I like how much friendlier renewal is to new players. There's actually decent low-mid level content!
2) A rough guide to renewal mechanics is must. Only a handful of players understand how renewal works, many have a small gist and some have absolutely no clue. Of course there are fan sites that explain things well, but I think it would be irresponsible to not help people through all these changes.
3) I'm very curious as to how iRO specific items will change in renewal. I would like to see these items in-game soon for testing, or at the very least a post describing their changes.
4) Being able to test BG and KvM weapons and gear would be nice.
5) I think items and gear from past events and the kafra shop should be sold by an npc for testing.
6) Ahhhhhh, engrish D: D: Every other new npc has poorly translated dialogue. It would take a very long time for people to screenshot and report all engrish.
7) PLEASE lower the price of basic gears. All trans gear is available for 20z, but we can't use those and we can't even afford a basic buckler.

All I can think of atm :3
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#14 Doddler

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 02:38 PM

I enjoy renewal a lot, I don't think I need to say it any more! :o But if I do have some misgivings.

Issues I have some issue with:

1) Magic attack nerf.
2) Skill balancing, some 3rd job skills are in desperate need of adjustment.
3) Ill mannered behavior: Same as number 2 really, there's not enough done in renewal to prevent using the new skills for nasty purposes.

I also have some concerns with the way renewal will hit iRO. Mainly, I'm concerned about players 'storing up' levels and using them to power level past the new content. Medals to exp is a valid concern (although I think the exp is reduced enough that it's not too viable to use them past 99), but bloody branches I think are way worse. MVPs give so much experience in renewal compared to normal monsters, that leveling via MVP is actually quite viable. My concern is that I imagine that some players may have enough bloody branches to literally max level on opening day. That would spoil the fun considerably.

Edited by Doddler, 09 September 2010 - 02:40 PM.

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#15 shilin

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 03:18 PM

[*]If casual players aren't given a guide to the changes, they may become confused and quit playing.

I agree with this because the current tone of every renewal announcement addresses renewal as a sort of common knowledge with the assumption that the entire RO population knows about this/expected this. While that may be true, some non avid RO players may go on the renewal server without knowing their entire stat system, equipment, formulas, monsters, skills and everything they ever knew is changed, and then wonder why a valk shield now has 80 def. I understand there are a lot of issues that need more immediate attention than a fancy notice, but a general summary of what renewal encompasses on top of the "renewal is here" would be nice for anyone who actually relies on official information to get by.
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#16 SkyFire

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 03:19 PM

The Konglish [Korean/English] is Killing me.
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#17 Prodigy

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 03:35 PM

but bloody branches I think are way worse. MVPs give so much experience in renewal compared to normal monsters, that leveling via MVP is actually quite viable. My concern is that I imagine that some players may have enough bloody branches to literally max level on opening day. That would spoil the fun considerably.

On that happy note, do remember to remind the GMs to turn of Bloody Branches everywhere when Renewal hits the main servers so we can do a proper Race to 150 event :o
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#18 L0neW0lf

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 03:43 PM

Perhaps we should have just named the server old yeller, that way when it goes bad we can just take it out back and shoot it. I'm all for renewal, it should be fun to try and test etc, once the server's rates are jacked up and leveling becomes less tedious...or we're giving an NPC that gives us zeny at least...maybe an NPC that set syou at 70/50 so we can start at second class and go from there. But the idea of creating a second server when we barely have enough people to populate one. I for one am looking forward to it hitting the Ymir server, I don't care to take part in the race to 150, but I do like the idea of having an arch bishop. :o

o wait, this was the wrong topic. I don't really think anything about renewal needs to be fixed. The only complaint I have is the ugly "Basic Info" window redesign, and that's not something that can be fixed. All in all, everything should be kept as-is, why change the server at all? jRO did it, euRO probably would have. I don't see why iRO needs to. Everything is fine as is. If you wanted to be that way we should take out all these kill count quests and repeatable turn in quests too just so people can't breeze through to 86. :)

Edited by L0neW0lf, 09 September 2010 - 03:45 PM.

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#19 DeltaRay

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 03:48 PM

1.I would like to see MATK buffed because I hear in order to do decent damage you are required to wear a 2 handed staff (makes the Bg weapon kinda useless specially when BG weapons were meant to be used for WOE or pvp enviroment )specially when warlocks are already squishi.
2.BBs disabled when renewal goes live or any fast lvling method such as medals or blanks.
3.Personally I would like the old elemental table back this is just me though.

Edited by DeltaRay, 09 September 2010 - 03:56 PM.

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#20 Soukosa

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 04:53 PM

My main concern is the lack of understanding from the GMs on how significant of a change renewal is. Sure there isn't much in the way of new content but so many maps have entirely new spawns, monsters all have different levels and stats than before and most important, the mechanics are quite different. While a lot of the more hardcore players are rather well prepared for renewal, most people aren't. People would like test out builds for their characters before renewal hits the current servers. There's also the need for fan sites to get themselves updated for renewal as well, which is hardly a simple undertaking either. I started to work on renewal with my site about a year ago and yet its still not entirely up to date, in large part because I need to go around and check things myself. This testing shouldn't be all about testing some simple things and catching all of the bad localizations and forcing it done in a week. The community needs to use this as time to get antiquated with all of what's going on with renewal.

Another big concern with renewal is the adjustment to the Heal formula. I play my high priest like 99% of the time I'm playing RO usually and currently have around a 3.2k heal with all of my gears. The new formula could take as much as 1k off of that while everyone has as much as three times the max HP at lv 150 as they do at 99. So the effectiveness of heal ends taking a huge nose dive. Being that healing is one of the most important roles of the class it rather hampers them quite a bit.

Other concerns include:
  • The slowness of the lower levels. While there's the Eden Group to help you out, they're essentially worthless til you can manage to get to lv 11.
  • The strength of the lower level enemies. The Eden Group will offer you a quest at lv 12 that gives you some useful gears but you're forced to kill monsters in the 20s and without the assistance of better gear its not gonna be easy for new players to complete it without a good party. You shouldn't be forced to party so early on IMO.
  • The huge variance of the monster levels on some maps. Let's look at Geffen Dungeon 1 for instance. Lv 26 Poison Spores but lv 63 Hunter Flies there as well. Even better how one of the Eden Group quests tells you to go there in the low levels. A lot of map spawns should be reconsidered to be more balanced.

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#21 Sera

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 05:11 PM

Please do at least one of the following and I will probably be happy with renewal:
1. Mechanic armor does not disappear on death
2. HSCR is not able to be removed by stuff other than dispell (no more dec agi and quag and slow grace and whatever else may be contained in renewal)

My own personal concern without having yet played renewal is that the work we have done on our characters pre-renewal will be trivialized by the new leveling scheme.
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#22 LilithPrincess

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 07:22 PM

very slow leveling... X__X
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#23 Doddler

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 07:26 PM

  • The huge variance of the monster levels on some maps. Let's look at Geffen Dungeon 1 for instance. Lv 26 Poison Spores but lv 63 Hunter Flies there as well. Even better how one of the Eden Group quests tells you to go there in the low levels. A lot of map spawns should be reconsidered to be more balanced.


I'm sure this is the fault of the edin quest itself, not of geffen dungeon 1. If you right click the quest after you get it, it tells you to go north east of geffen, even if the board tells you to do something dumb like go to geffen tower. :o
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#24 Rewth

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 07:28 PM

The scaling of item drop chances based on the your character's base level.

Just wanted to post this again. I am ok with the scaling of xp to the monsters you kill. however if my lvl 150 char wants to hunt for an item on a lvl 1 monster I shouldn't have to kill a BILLION of them to get it when a lvl 10 char can get it on the first kill...
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#25 Kitten

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 07:36 PM

The scaling of item drop chances based on the your character's base level.

Just wanted to post this again. I am ok with the scaling of xp to the monsters you kill. however if my lvl 150 char wants to hunt for an item on a lvl 1 monster I shouldn't have to kill a BILLION of them to get it when a lvl 10 char can get it on the first kill...


This is going to be a problem when it comes to forging/crafting items. The new jobs require lots of items for skill catalysts... We shouldn't have to have low level characters set aside just for item hunting.

We don't have enough new players coming in to keep a good amount of these items on the market either. This doesn't really make sense for iRO... Is there any chance we can remove it?
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