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#51 Akihiro

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 11:45 PM

1x exp is a HORRIBLE idea (by comparison kRO Renewal Sakray had 10x, not sure what their current mains rate is), let's do the math on a level:
A level 110 needs 12m to hit 111 (by comparison is roughly a trans 83->84 in the current system), a level 120 monster with 140% higher level bonus magnification gives generally 5k exp (most of the good monsters in the current format giving at least 10k-49k, though some classes have to make do with 4k), that'd make renewal 2400 kills for a single level [before manual] when you'll need to get 39 more levels after that. I don't really have an idea of a good mid range for whatever times the server should be given exp events might make it too crazy, but rates, but a level is only fun up til about 200-300 kills per level, afterwards it becomes a full time job. I have a lot of characters and I'll probably quit if the final version takes a full day off day to night to get one single level on 1 character.

This. This a million times.

When I played the free server for cRO, they had 2x rates. Taking that, you could imagine a rate something like 4/2 (4 or 3x rates on Ymir/Ygg and 2x rates on Valkyrie) because honestly I found that to be a PERFECTLY comfortable rate to level with, and I think it's what made me love renewal.

I think you staff guys should -definitely- consider something like this, and not as an event either. Make it a permanent thing.

Edited by Akihiro, 11 September 2010 - 11:46 PM.

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#52 Ramen

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:48 AM

In general, I'm liking it less as I test it more, but maybe I'll meet with a pleasent surprise when I finally get to Shadow Chaser....maybe.

Gripes
  • Hit is just plain stupid. I have a hard time believing that I could miss 10+ times on a monster I have about 80-90% hit on.
  • Not liking leveling much. Every monster feels like you're fighting the exact same thing, just with a different sprite.
  • (Hopefully it'll get fixed)Eden quests are worded extremely poorly, and no one would have a snowball's chance in hell to figure some of them out without asking someone who had already done them.
  • Upgrading rates are absolutely aweful for the new max being +20.
  • Once I get SC today, I'll start testing out dmg differences between weapons but....
  • Currently I'm not noticing any big differences between weapons, which is kind of irritating and nice at the same time.
  • Frankly, I don't feel as though I'm playing RO anymore. More like some other MMO that just uses the same sprites.
  • Looks like I need to build any possible new characters I would ever want to build now, when I can get level 1-80 in a day because...
  • With what I've tested so far, I MIGHT be lucky enough to get from level 1-40 in one day of solid leveling....
  • And I'm talking about not eating, or going to the bathroom for 6-8 hours straight. >_>
  • Retardedly high level monsters on maps that are supposed to be for much lower levels. (Geffen Dungeon 1, I hate you Hunterflies)
  • Is it just me, or does it seem like *normal* monster attacks always seem to take the same percentage of HP away, regardless of your level or what? For my Rogue with no VIT, one monster hit always seemed to take away about 1/6 - 1/7 of my HP away, no matter what level I was.

After I get 150 on my Chaser and finish testing stuff with them, I'll probably start checking out other classes, but I can already tell it's going to be a hassle. Moving on though, things I LIKE about Renewal and it's changes.

  • Training grounds felt MUCH faster and to top if off, I hardly had to use any of my novie pots.
  • Getting to test out the different first classes, I think, is a great idea, especially for people who are brand new to the game.
  • Eden group equips will be really nice for those starting from scratch.
  • Monsters seem a lot easier to kill, minus dex gripes, which makes leveling a good bit faster than when I first started playing.
  • Monster levels actually MEAN something now. Having leveled maps will make it so much easier for noobs to know where to level.
  • Sightless Mind got a huge damage buff! <3
  • Hopefully I'll have more to add to this list once I finish my SC and can test out PVP/WoE

I'm really hoping, in the end, I'll like Renewal and enjoy RO even more than I do now. It might be better for my wallet though if I end up hating it and quitting.
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#53 LethalJokeChar

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 02:38 AM

If you are wondering why it seems every monster attack seems to take off the same % of HP, that would be because they are pretty much exactly the same. Quite a beautiful system isn't it? :( Engineered to play exactly like the monster you fought 5-10 levels previous.

That kind of makes you wonder, though... people say it's nice to change maps more often and not be stuck on the same map for like 40 levels trying to level, but what happens when reality sets in? The reality being, no matter where you go or what monster you fight, the fights are pretty much identical, there is no change in tactics or difficulty, and the feelings of "having moved" seem to fade away.

Also, I don't care if they "did" something with the monster levels and made them "mean something". They already did have a purpose in mechanics, which was giving bonuses to hit/flee like players. Also other skills like decrease agi... They were also generally an indicator of monster difficulty.

Edited by LethalJokeChar, 12 September 2010 - 02:44 AM.

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#54 Hrothmund

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 03:42 AM

Drop penalties.

These belong in games where low level items are replaced/rendered redundant as you increase in level, an artifical way to stop you leveling/farming in areas designed for new players. The exp penalties I can accept as a way to slow down leveling and make the game more grindy overall but the drop penalties really take it too far.

Unless theres plans to put every single needed low level item into some sort of NPC vendor or "break this high level item into low level items" the drop penalties have to go.
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#55 Chaiso

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 03:45 AM

Being able to fight at a whole bunch of different maps for each level is a good idea in theory but the fact that all the monsters are now practically identical with the only difference being the name and sprite it makes it kind of boring. At least with pre renewal RO different leveling areas means more than just a change of sprite.

I am unsure as to what MATK formula we have but kROs one is terrible can we at least have jROs? SG is completely retarded, chance to freeze with each hit? While there is a chance for it do more damage than pre renewal it is more than likely to do less. This nerf is combined with the MATK nerf is just completly unnecessary. These are pretty much the whole reason that I am no longer going to main my Hwiz anymore.

The fixed cast times are ridiculous. The amount of DEX and INT needed to reach all the variable cast time gone is insanely high and no one is even going to reach it but then theres still more that can't be reduced. I understand that there are books that you can use for instant cast but these are not ideal to have to continually use in a situation such as WoE.

I do not like how most (if not all) classes now have a powerful AoE with no cast time on it except for Warlocks and Sorcerers. So on top of nerfing our most useful skill SG and MATK all other classes are able to deal as much if not more damage than us and not be as squishy.

Safety Wall as well, can we leave this how it is pre renewal? Most of the uses that it had are now pretty obsolete (e.g. stopping some strong damaging skill like GFist).

Drop rate based on level sucks and is a complete waste. Nobody has said if we have it or not but I will put my opinion anyway. Having it in pretty much means that we have to remake our hunting characters for places once they get too high because we won't be able to get the drops anymore which is kind of a waste.

Monsters that are around 140+ have an absurd amount of HP and do not make up for it with extra XP. The cards from those monsters I would have liked on my Hwiz too but with the amount of HP they have I can expect them to be very expensive and very rare as no one will be even trying to hunt them.

Long post but I had a lot to complain about. Can't think of anything else right now but rest assured, I'll be back with more later~.
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#56 Brindizer

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:37 AM

Taking all the quests from Henry up to 114, I realized something:

Weapon cards? Pointless. I could add a tiny bit of attack maybe, or have a minuscule chance to cause a status effect because weapons that are worth using only have one slot.
Elemental weapon? Pointless. The added damage is negligible.
Various tactics for various targets? Pointless. Just hit it 'til it dies, unless it's ghost. Then not even an elemental weapon will save you.
Adding points into Strength? Pointless. The weapon supplies everything you need.

Every monster is exactly the same from a melee standpoint.

The HP scales nicely as you go up in levels, but the attack formula just seems borked. If you endow a weapon with fire element, I guess I can understand that they still get hit by the weapon (the weapon's attack) and then are burned (by the elemental portion), but it just seems like the effort isn't worthwhile.
I say this because I leveled a blacksmith the entire way, and essentially had no skills but cart revolution all the way up until mechanic. The whole thing seemed goofy and tiresome. The size penalties show the most difference between monsters now, so we've got from a game with a wide array of races and elements to...
Small, medium, large, and whether or not it's ghost. When weapon perfection is active, every monster truly is identical.

These're just the observations of a blacksmith character, of course. It could very well be intentional that this class turns out this way, as it now becomes possible to melee everything in the game with an axe.

Edited by Brindizer, 12 September 2010 - 05:53 AM.

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#57 Rewth

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:36 AM

I will continue to post about how the drop based off level is nuts. Others have said it but i figure it's a big enough issue to that i will keep posting...

This will mean that to even get the basics like potting and smith items people need to keep making low level chars over and over and over and over just to hunt herbs?!?!

If my lvl 150 char wants to go hunt some herbs so i can make some pots why the hell can't he?!

Also this will mean that cards from those low level monsters will cost like a 100mil each...

I am happy they have this thread but it would be even nicer if could some some responses from the GMs so we know they are actually reading and understanding and MAYBE caring about what we post....
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#58 Puppet

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 08:59 AM

Ragnarök no longer feels like Ragnarök, most monster seem to attack and feel the same same amount of hp, imo monsters that are 40 die just as easy as 99 monsters, I despise what was done to monk class skills they simple cast way to slow even with 99 dex, tho I like how phen seem not even effect cast time in anyway way now.. If this is bug and it is suppose to increase cast time, then that would be real -_-ty thing cause things cast slow as is, I Figure no insta cast ment they lock cast time to be no faster then .8 sec or something like that, but no alot things seem to have fixed cast times.

Champ/monk current builds as we know it are completely destroyed

Fist- will never get off in woe less you combo
TSS- insanely slow and easily hide able and pnu-able
Occult- is slow- yet is can easily one shot alot supposed 99 monsters
Zen- insanely slow cast
Spirit sphere absorb- insanely slow, and still way to random about working this should also not need Shift to work on monsters


I despise this Drop NERF this will drive the prices up on alot things, especially cards and herbs and supplies for bomb and etc, alot things are already over priced as is. The people that didnt test renewal and there change will most likely just throw there stat and skills back to the way they where before renewal only to find out that build is completely destroyed now and that is providing we get stat skill reset when this happens and if we do it will probably be only one. which again will piss those people off.

Upgrade system is terrible at momnet the rates are terrible, and if this special ore that that help upgade past safe points with out breaking is a karfa thing then again its another screw job cause that mean only people willing to spend real money for +10 and higher will have that nice gear.

IMO alot things in renewal need to be rethinked.

At moment only thing i like is the revamped BM but I kinda pissed I can't map space bar to chat on/off in fact I dont think it can be map to anything but enter, Which asks the question why is in the interface menu, that supposedly allow us to customize keys, yet it wont allow use to customize they way we want it.

Edited by Puppet, 12 September 2010 - 09:03 AM.

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#59 Prodigy

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 09:12 AM

Since we're talking about champs in WoE, I'm just gonna go ahead and assume that you're gonna WoE as a Sura and not just a champ. With that regards, there is no way to survive a Gfist, except for timing it with Hide. Neither Safetywall nor GR will protect you from it, so yeah, Sura's are far from destroyed in WoE. Yes, we will no longer see people Gfist in under 0.5 seconds, but that doesn't mean it will be impossible to get off a manually casted Gfist. Also, be sure to take Sacrament into account. With the way Fixed Casting time is placed in the game, it's meant to have Sacrament (AB buff) to be considered as well.
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#60 Puppet

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 09:31 AM

Since we're talking about champs in WoE, I'm just gonna go ahead and assume that you're gonna WoE as a Sura and not just a champ. With that regards, there is no way to survive a Gfist, except for timing it with Hide. Neither Safetywall nor GR will protect you from it, so yeah, Sura's are far from destroyed in WoE. Yes, we will no longer see people Gfist in under 0.5 seconds, but that doesn't mean it will be impossible to get off a manually casted Gfist. Also, be sure to take Sacrament into account. With the way Fixed Casting time is placed in the game, it's meant to have Sacrament (AB buff) to be considered as well.


Note I said Monk/Champ not SURA. I Also find the 50 job point for 3rd class low considering the amount skills most the class have

Edited by Puppet, 12 September 2010 - 09:33 AM.

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#61 Ramen

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 09:54 AM

Note I said Monk/Champ not SURA. I Also find the 50 job point for 3rd class low considering the amount skills most the class have


I think the point of only having 50 job points was to try and "somewhat" force diversity in skill builds. That would make a lot of sense considering stat builds no longer seem to matter one way or the other.

Edited by Ramen, 12 September 2010 - 09:54 AM.

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#62 Prodigy

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 10:16 AM

@Puppet
Sorry, but it looked like you were complaining about the PvP aspects (hide, pneuma, getting off Gfist in WoE) in which case, even High Wizards, High Priests, Scholars, etc. all have painfully slow casting time. My point still stands that the new casting times are more catered for 3rd jobs (ie having more than 99 base stat) which is why they seem very slow for non-3rds.
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#63 Nombus

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 11:19 AM

Likes:
- Fixed cast time. This was absolutely necessary considering the power of some skills vs the difficulty of using them (AoE magic, Gfist).
- A stronger focus upon a weaponâ??s attack than before and the importance of well rounded weapons due to changing levelling spots.


Dislikes:
- Matk so far as it affects sage's lower modified magic skills (bolts at 100% matk) (I can't emphasize this enough for how bad the bolts are currently). Wiz can get around this considering their have higher modified skills, but this will destroy what little damage capacity sage class once had.
- The grind starts far too early. People do not become entertained by poking monsters for several hours before they gain access to some skills.
- Potting delay not being considered as necessary considering how durable classes have become.
- Fighting a monster is 10 higher than you offers little in the way of reward than fighting something easy at your level. There is not enough encouragement to take on tough challenges as there once was.

P.S. Iâ??ll update this as I come across more.

Edited by Nombus, 13 September 2010 - 05:41 PM.

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#64 Pepperoncini

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:50 PM

Well I did another long testing session, I got my knight to about 85ish. Now that I have seen how mob/leveling progression works, I will give my impressions so far.

Likes:
More linear progression. No more, Reach X stat bonus and 1 shot mob Y, with weapon Z until 99. You simply have to move around now. This makes leveling feel a lot more satisfying, because it only takes a few levels until its time to upgrade to the next hunting location.
Less gear restrictions. At least at the early levels (1-90), it really isn't necessary it to make a gear setup for a particular mob or mob type because you move around so much. Specifically gearing for a spot is just as good as ever, but you no longer have to do it now. A crappy agi knight will probably do just fine with a couple elemental 2handed swords.
Agi gives you a lot of attack speed right off the bat and you don't have to pump so much str for decent melee.
I think these two changes bring some love back to the older style hybrid builds. Plus, Luk is an all around better stat now than it was before. So once you are looking at dumping 10+ stat points per STR or DEX or whatever, instead dropping some points into Luk doesn't seem like a bad idea.
Level 4 weapons are about as strong as they should be now. And they seem to make good all-purpose weapons with endows.
Getting to job 50 is not what it used to be.
Even at j49, I was still getting 0.3-0.5% Jexp per monster. After renewal, it won't be painful to get those mages and acos to j50 like they need.
Card rarity is going to be completely switched up. You will be killing mobs in your 40s, and 50s, that you otherwise wouldn't mess with until your mid 80s or 90s. Likewise, some low level mobs are going to be put in a much higher level bracket with renewal. In the end, you will likely have more personal access to the mobs that you need cards from.

Dislikes:

Monsters have lost a lot of their individuality. This is a big one, all monsters are just about the same now. A strouf and a merman are basically the same thing. Just like how an evil druid and a wraith are the same. You will find yourself on a map with 2 or 3 different monsters that might as well just be the same. Also, I'm not really sure what elemental/size differences have been made, but I swear it feels like the whole mob Z is vulnerable to to elemental X has been toned down somehow.
Varying EXP. The fact that you get an EXP bonus/penalty depending on your level makes finding the "best" spot difficult. Also, just rolling up on a map and killing a monster is not enough. You have no idea if that 900exp is going to go down or up when you level. You literally have to have some kind of directory open in a browser.
Drops penalty. This has the potential to really, really suck. Some have said that it is not that bad after all, and others say it is terrible. I put it to the test by jumping on my 80 knight and AOE'ing down poison spores. I killed several mobs like this:
Posted Image
...And was only getting 2-5 spores total. They drop 2 different types of spore items and one of them is at 90% :(

Edited by Pepperoncini, 12 September 2010 - 12:53 PM.

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#65 Mwrip

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 01:01 PM

I'm definitely noticing the lack of difference in monsters. I feel like I'm playing WoW, where all of the monsters are graphically different, but basically the same thing, scaled to level.

The drop penalty is going to utterly destroy what was left of story questing in this game. Pretty much all of the quests involve getting stuff from low level monsters. I don't even want to think about trying to get those green herbs to enter NI now. Even worse, bots will just run twice as many characters to negate the penalty, while players can't. You just made bots even more powerful. Yes, I play on Ymir, but it's no secret that botted goods constantly enter that server via character transfer.

Now that I've played a mage more, I see what the real problem is. They decided to make our weapon far more important than our damage stats. That in itself is not a bad thing. Normally, casters start out overpowered, then as gear gets better and better, they fade to obsolescence. Making us actually use our weapons in our casting avoids both ends of this problem. Of course, for that to work, caster weapons need to actually exist at high level, which they don't. We also need cards, and there's a grand total of 1 caster weapon card (necromancer) in the game, and it's not a very good one. (There's also the spell boosters, but those are all for wizards - there's nothing to boost Lock magic). The result is that our damage fades out more and more as we get higher level. The solution to this is obvious, but I looked at the next few updates... and it doesn't look like we're getting the weapons we need for at least 2 years, assuming RO's usual 2 updates/year advancement rate.
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#66 LethalJokeChar

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 01:28 PM

Well I did another long testing session, I got my knight to about 85ish. Now that I have seen how mob/leveling progression works, I will give my impressions so far.

Likes:
More linear progression. No more, Reach X stat bonus and 1 shot mob Y, with weapon Z until 99. You simply have to move around now. This makes leveling feel a lot more satisfying, because it only takes a few levels until its time to upgrade to the next hunting location.
Less gear restrictions. At least at the early levels (1-90), it really isn't necessary it to make a gear setup for a particular mob or mob type because you move around so much. Specifically gearing for a spot is just as good as ever, but you no longer have to do it now. A crappy agi knight will probably do just fine with a couple elemental 2handed swords.
Agi gives you a lot of attack speed right off the bat and you don't have to pump so much str for decent melee.
I think these two changes bring some love back to the older style hybrid builds. Plus, Luk is an all around better stat now than it was before. So once you are looking at dumping 10+ stat points per STR or DEX or whatever, instead dropping some points into Luk doesn't seem like a bad idea.
Level 4 weapons are about as strong as they should be now. And they seem to make good all-purpose weapons with endows.
Getting to job 50 is not what it used to be.
Even at j49, I was still getting 0.3-0.5% Jexp per monster. After renewal, it won't be painful to get those mages and acos to j50 like they need.
Card rarity is going to be completely switched up. You will be killing mobs in your 40s, and 50s, that you otherwise wouldn't mess with until your mid 80s or 90s. Likewise, some low level mobs are going to be put in a much higher level bracket with renewal. In the end, you will likely have more personal access to the mobs that you need cards from.

Dislikes:

Monsters have lost a lot of their individuality. This is a big one, all monsters are just about the same now. A strouf and a merman are basically the same thing. Just like how an evil druid and a wraith are the same. You will find yourself on a map with 2 or 3 different monsters that might as well just be the same. Also, I'm not really sure what elemental/size differences have been made, but I swear it feels like the whole mob Z is vulnerable to to elemental X has been toned down somehow.
Varying EXP. The fact that you get an EXP bonus/penalty depending on your level makes finding the "best" spot difficult. Also, just rolling up on a map and killing a monster is not enough. You have no idea if that 900exp is going to go down or up when you level. You literally have to have some kind of directory open in a browser.
Drops penalty. This has the potential to really, really suck. Some have said that it is not that bad after all, and others say it is terrible. I put it to the test by jumping on my 80 knight and AOE'ing down poison spores. I killed several mobs like this:
Posted Image
...And was only getting 2-5 spores total. They drop 2 different types of spore items and one of them is at 90% :(


The things your likes are actually a lot of my dislikes though. The moving around to different leveling areas is only an illusion. Of course, it sucks grinding the same map day in, day out. That's why it's always good to try partying with people who are trying to get a really good exp party going. I mean, if you don't do any teamwork at all, you pretty much ARE forced to grind the same monsters.

As with the thing about gear selection, it's true apparently you don't need so much gear. Probably till at least above level 120... But the thing is, even if in pre-renewal, you needed gear... again, you would be staying in that one spot for a while, so you would use that gear well and it would not be wasted by changing maps every few levels.

Level 4 weapons always used to be some sort of odd-ball weapons. Rarely, you could get them to do very good DPS.. then some other lv 4 weapons you could slot by low chance and then they would become really good. Other lv4 weapons just had really useful effects.. still others.... just not thought out and useless. lol There even is a bard/dancer ensemble to boost level 4 weapon attack.

Personally I feel they put WAY too much emphasis on weapon. Weapons used to be very important as well, before this. It not only gave you a damage boost, but then MULTIPLIED all that damage. And if you didn't have your weapon, you were still pretty useless, unless you were a caster.

And also, I think you are wrong about the cards. It is true people will be killing a lot of monsters they do not normally, but then again, they will be changing maps and moving on to different monsters fairly quickly, will they not? And a vast majority of cards are not very desirable or that good, so what you are saying is not true. No one will finish the grind from 1-150 and have found even a tenth of all their gear/cards for pvp.

Edited by LethalJokeChar, 12 September 2010 - 01:31 PM.

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#67 Pepperoncini

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 01:45 PM

The things your likes are actually a lot of my dislikes though. The moving around to different leveling areas is only an illusion. Of course, it sucks grinding the same map day in, day out. That's why it's always good to try partying with people who are trying to get a really good exp party going. I mean, if you don't do any teamwork at all, you pretty much ARE forced to grind the same monsters.

As with the thing about gear selection, it's true apparently you don't need so much gear. Probably till at least above level 120... But the thing is, even if in pre-renewal, you needed gear... again, you would be staying in that one spot for a while, so you would use that gear well and it would not be wasted by changing maps every few levels.

Level 4 weapons always used to be some sort of odd-ball weapons. Rarely, you could get them to do very good DPS.. then some other lv 4 weapons you could slot by low chance and then they would become really good. Other lv4 weapons just had really useful effects.. still others.... just not thought out and useless. lol There even is a bard/dancer ensemble to boost level 4 weapon attack.

Personally I feel they put WAY too much emphasis on weapon. Weapons used to be very important as well, before this. It not only gave you a damage boost, but then MULTIPLIED all that damage. And if you didn't have your weapon, you were still pretty useless, unless you were a caster.

And also, I think you are wrong about the cards. It is true people will be killing a lot of monsters they do not normally, but then again, they will be changing maps and moving on to different monsters fairly quickly, will they not? And a vast majority of cards are not very desirable or that good, so what you are saying is not true. No one will finish the grind from 1-150 and have found even a tenth of all their gear/cards for pvp.


I'm saying you will have more access to the mobs that drop the cards you need. Like strouf for example, that's a pretty rare card right now simply because not many people level there, and its kind of hard to hang on that level for a while. After renewal hits though, it will be a very popular leveling spot around 50-65. I remember being pissed off that when I leveled my monk/sniper, the best leveling locations never seemed to have decent cards. With renewal, some very good card mobs are also very good hunting spots that people are certainly going to pass through. Especially the higher level cards like imp, necromancer, flamming skull. There are going to be TONS of people leveling 100-120 finding those cards left and right because they represent the best leveling locations. With the current renewal drop penalty, it will be harder to grind for a specific card, but I guarantee you many previously rare cards are going to pop up.

Plus, people are forgetting that monsters are generally easier now regardless of level. For example, a pasana has under 4k hp. Teddy bears are just regular old mobs now, penos are no longer hardcore, etc....
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#68 LethalJokeChar

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 02:07 PM

I'd much rather have the harder versions of the mobs any day. It just isn't RO if they are all the same. If anything, what you are suggesting is that now, you aren't rewarded for actually choosing not to level so fast and hunt some monsters that normally aren't hunted. Instead, these monsters are now simply part of the treadmill, and should... SOMEWHAT put more of that card into the economy. Only now, if people wish to continue hunting these cards, they get no exp if they are too high level and get drop penalties.

You see, people leveling at a particular monster aren't going to magically pump enough of that card into the system so that supply meets demand. Yes, something like a strouf card will most likely not be AS rare, but people who want to continue hunting it to try and make money will either have to make lower level alts or still sit on the same map.. this time with boring monsters all while being penalized up the kazoo.
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#69 Puppet

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:04 PM

I much rather have ro as it is broke as it is then, these renewal changes, but i been wanting to quit ro for while and renewal hiting mains will most likey be it, RO now plays like almost every other MMORPG, which if i liked them I would of went to World of Warcraft or Guild Wars long ago
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#70 Pepperoncini

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:18 PM

I much rather have ro as it is broke as it is then, these renewal changes, but i been wanting to quit ro for while and renewal hiting mains will most likey be it, RO now plays like almost every other MMORPG, which if i liked them I would of went to World of Warcraft or Guild Wars long ago

How much testing have you done? RO still has the same feel to it. It may have taken a step towards more generic MMORPGs but its certainly not "like WoW" or Aion or anything. There's still fast paced killing, there's still fun with firewall, fun with traps. Still crazy mobbing... All of the fun stuff is still there. Renewal is give and take, but one thing is does accomplish is fix our capped mechanics and open up for more progression. That alone makes up for any negative changes we will have to deal with.
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#71 DJMaxSilver

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:45 PM

Finally job changed to Minstrel (3rd Job) and found some minor spelling and grammatical errors in the dialogue for the job change quest. For those who want to know what the apple ring does, it increases stat bonuses.

Edited by DJMaxSilver, 12 September 2010 - 05:58 PM.

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#72 Soukosa

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:40 PM

So after grinding my ass off (on a test server no less) I finally get to Arch Bishop and get to lv 112 before I need a break. So I gear up and whatnot to experience the wonders of the improvements that this class will give me over High Priests. First I check out my heal. A whopping 2.1k at most... Oh wow, such an improvement! I heal for less than a lv 99 NORMAL priest BEFORE they added heal boosts to the game. Good work Gravity! :( Oh wait, I can use High Heal to get my old heal back again... oh wait it has a bloody 5 second cool down. Awesome! All the while the max HP on 3rd jobs is signficantly higher. Found an RK in PvP with 30k HP. So I have to heal them 15 times to fully restore their HP? Now imagine when they have 60k HP and I still can only heal for 3k tops. Seems better to just leave the AB behind and just spam pots. So much for progress with partying... To top it off, ABs lack any means of a strong offensive so they level themselves. Judex is a joke. Adoramus requires blue gems. Mean while all of the other 3rd jobs are getting these OMGHAX skills that let easily level. With the forced level range for monsters you have to kill this becomes a pretty big issue too as monster HP scales up pretty fast.

GMs probably want to know some thoughts on how leveling feels too from using "Helpful" Henry (more like "Lagful Henry"). It does help to give one a good idea as to how various monsters of the various levels feel. And well, I found it pretty bad as to how much the difficulty in the monsters varies. You could get a monster that was a total b*tch to kill one level, like Breezes, and the next you could get some something stupidly easy to kill, like Stapos. This isn't to mention how bloody hard it is to hit things. Even stuff with lower hit requirements could be a pain to land hits on. I don't see the point of this at all. Thought leveling was supposed to be made easier and not harder. Some monsters practically required a miracle to kill since they required so much hit to deal damage to them. All the while there was easier mosnters I could have leveled on instead of them. To further the issue with this imbalance is how much the exp varies. Monsters that are a lower level could give more exp than ones of a higher level. The imbalance of the monster levels on many maps is also a huge issue. Wasn't too much fun looking for Orc Archers in the 70s while some lv 106 Arclouzes came along to kick my ass.

Another issue is the drop rate penalty. What's the point of this? Seriously? If you're killing lower level stuff for drops there's a pretty good reason for it since you know, alot of quests require you do so. In fact some of the 3rd job change quests require that you hunt for items from lower level monsters and with this penalty in place, it makes the quest take forever since its so hard to get the drops. iRO also certainly doesn't have enough players to cover all of the level ranges for the drops and even then... who would keep alot of the drops? There's so many items from monsters that are required for random quests that people aren't gonna think about holding on to for trying to vend off to other players.

Also the Eden Quests. They're supposed to help out new players but often they're either too hard to do or are too short. Go kill 10 monsters that die in like 5 seconds each and then spend the next 5 minutes going back to the NPC and renewing it for a scant amount of base exp? Really now? The 24 hour cool down on some of them is also pretty stupid. By the time you reach that cooldown you'll be in the next tier most likely. All the while it doesn't really help new players under stand what they're supposed to do. New players still have to put up with the issue of knowing which stats to invest in and getting rare cards from monsters in order to have decent gears. Sure the Eden Group stuff is good but its not gonna get them far in the long run. The game's still too heavily dependent upon the card system which has always been one of the big reasons why its so hard to get going on this game. With the game still being this hard to get going on, why would many new players keep playing? Most are likely to get fed up and try another game.

But why care so much about the new players when the current state of this renewal update is upsetting so much of your current player base? Right now with the current state of renewal here you're bound to cause many people to quit because this is absolutely horrible as to alot of what they did here. It takes away alot of what people have known and loved all of these years and replaces it with something entirely different. Sure there's alot of useful improvements but I think the things I mentioned above are enough to cause people to move on. I know that if things don't drastically change before renewal hits Ymir I will likely move on myself and I've been playing this game off and on for over 6 years now and been dedicated to it enough to maintain a very detailed database for the community. Does that not say something to you?
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#73 Sera

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 08:10 PM

When I first started playing renewal, I thought, oh, this really isn't as bad as I thought it would be...

But the more I play it, the less I like it.

There seems to be no real way to significantly mitigate the damage you take from enemies. Pre-Renewal, I could get myself a set of +9 gears and see a visible reduction in damage taken.
Now it's like... perfect dodge and to a lesser extent, flee, are all that really matter excluding buffs. Raydric and shield help a little, but a character seems to play essentially the same whether it is well geared or poorly geared, well statted or poorly statted.
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#74 Pepperoncini

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 08:56 PM

When I first started playing renewal, I thought, oh, this really isn't as bad as I thought it would be...

But the more I play it, the less I like it.

There seems to be no real way to significantly mitigate the damage you take from enemies. Pre-Renewal, I could get myself a set of +9 gears and see a visible reduction in damage taken.
Now it's like... perfect dodge and to a lesser extent, flee, are all that really matter excluding buffs. Raydric and shield help a little, but a character seems to play essentially the same whether it is well geared or poorly geared, well statted or poorly statted.


This is true. You really start to notice it while doing the 92-100 quests. Even though mobs generally have less attack post renewal, more of it seems to go through regardless of gear or even stats to some degree. Its hard to really tell what is going on though if you just work the quests. No one build or gear setup will allow you to preform well on all of the quests because the monsters begin to vary. I would like to try testing the upper 90s on mobs I want to fight, but I've run out of zenny on the test server, and I'm not about to grind out currency on a server that's going to get wiped.

In the early levels, mobs are very similar to each other. Later on though, some mobs are way harder than others. Breezes and Noxious for example will kick your ass compared to other mobs at that level. Renewal game play seems to change pretty drastically from 1-50, 50-80, and 80+.

Leveling through Henri is just a crappy way to test renewal in general. If you are melee, and you get a few quests to kill ghost mobs with high flee, it makes you feel completely underpowered. You are forced to fight a mob, that would otherwise be a terrible choice for you in a real setting. This makes the gameplay frustrating.

Edited by Pepperoncini, 12 September 2010 - 08:59 PM.

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#75 neoyagasaki

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 01:21 AM

  • The scaling of item drop chances based on your character's base level.


Out of everything I think this will lead to the be the most problematic, especially with quests that require specific items. By nerfing the average player with reduced drop rates, that means the economy within RO is going to be thrown off. Botting will probably increase as a demand for specific items rise due to increased difficulty to obtain the items yourself. Remember how bad the botting was when the repeatable exp events were by item turn in instead of kill count? It didn't drop exactly after it was changed to kill counts, but atleast it prevented botters from farming specific items and selling them for ridiculous amounts of zeny due to demand.

If nothing else is changed, drop this feature.
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