106 replies to this topic

[Xellie]

I can see what you saying about defending the best castle defense and get god pieces by random , but as for the bellum weapons, they can be dropped from any GD monster....

Which means that there's no actual direct competition for them... you can just go elsewhere.
(and that will make them not very rare, since we know what iRO players / CMs are like)

Edited by Xellie, 01 February 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[Kuropi]

Which means that there's no actual direct competition for them... you can just go elsewhere.
(and that will make them not very rare, since we know what iRO players / CMs are like)

Pretty much, unless these Bellum gears are ACCOUNT BOUND ON PICK UP anybody with money is going to have them within a couple months, and these gears are so incredibly OP, nobody without them is going to stand a chance against anybody with them. One of the Katars drops you to 1 def/mdef ALWAYS on successful hit, fist gives instant cast gfist and like, +120% damage to demi-human, wand for warlock gives +220 matk, -20% variable cast time, +30%(? i forget exactly) damage to demi-human monsters AND decreases FIXED cast time by 0.2 seconds. Need I go on? Obviously, lesser/newer guilds are going to be more hard pressed than ever to make a place for themselves in the WoE scene unless they/their members have the zeny to afford these gears (IF they're even tradable to begin with). And, I can see certain guilds purposely running as large of parties as they can down there to prevent as many enemies as possible from hunting there so they can have a monopoly on selling this stuff too. It's gonna get nasty in the guild dungeons, but the WoE scene is likely going to get really boring by contrast. People are gonna sit around and defend one fort, like Xellie said, and the newer guilds are gonna be so discouraged by all these Bellum gears that those guilds have, they're gonna stop even bothering to try and attack them. This patch will kill WoE. It won't be any fun anymore. Unless the GMs and CMs come up with some amazing idea to make things more interesting, this is going to be the death of PVP for RO for all but a few of the most hardcore PVP fans.

Edited by Kuropi, 01 February 2012 - 03:53 PM.

[Mwrip]

7 things I could think of that could help:

1. WoE needs to be more strategic. Back when my guild was alive (we're active in a few other games, but no one plays this enough anymore to recruit since PvM is mostly dead), we allied with another primarily PvM guild, and would set up the occasional WoE run. Basically, whoever felt like it joined, and we'd try to find a castle and win through superior strategy - or catching an overextended guild going for multiple castles with their pants down. Sure, gear was always important, but a coordinated team that knew how to set a precast, make good use of things like root and traps, and generally played as a team actually stood a fighting chance against larger, better geared guilds. It led to some fun fights, and of course casual PvP guilds like us weren't there every WoE, but there were enough of them that the roster of who was fighting changed from WoE to WoE. Hell, we even allied with another primarily PvM guild, did occasional coop WoEs, and even held a castle once. We weren't in it to win, and we knew we'd never get our hands on a god item, but it was fun to just jump in and get a good battle going. Modern WoE? It's purely how many bodies can you field, how many thousands of real dollars have you sunk into KvM gear, and how many dedicated 1-shotters can you field? Most of the strategy is gone, and you don't stand the slightest chance against a guild actually dedicated to PvP. Yes, a PvM guild fighting a PvP one SHOULD be at a disadvantage, but it shouldn't be to the point that you have zero chance. This doesn't just hurt the casual PvPers, it makes it impossible for any new PvP guilds to form, as fighting the established guilds is impossible.

2. Things NEED to be counterable. Example:
Champ, pre-Renewal: GFist will instakill almost anyone. However, a dedicated fister has no room for much vit, gfist takes a good 2 seconds to cast, it's a melee skill, and they don't have other 1-shot skills. Safety the target, backslide out, stun the Champ... it doesn't matter if you don't have the gear to actually survive the hit, just make sure you have an appropriate counter and you're fast on your feet. This gave everyone a fighting chance. Outgeared didn't necessary mean outplayed.

Sura, post-Renewal: GFist casts in about a second, making it much harder to safety/slide out of it, and the safety wall will BREAK from the hit, so they can double fist. EVERYONE has 100 vit, so stuns don't exist. If you manage to safety it, don't worry, they'll just GoH you from range, and you can't Pnuema and Safety the same square. Still alive somehow? They'll just shut your whole team down with a Cursed Circle, and start picking people off. Oh, by the way, they have a larger guild with multiple Suras, and it only takes 4 of them to shut down 60 players. You don't HAVE 60 players. You're going to be disabled, powerless, and watch your team die one by one. Press alt-F4 and save yourself some time, as you're already dead. Then go do something else, because this is all WoE will ever be to you if you're not one of the major WoE guilds. (Hell, this is all WoE is PERIOD. If you are one of the major WoE guilds, you'll just be on both ends of this instead of one.)

3. Class balance. Pre-renewal, EVERY class had a WoE role, and even if you were mainly a PvMer, you'd find something of value to do in a WoE environment. This very much encouraged ad hoc, PvM players to join WoE for the hell of it - and enjoy the experience. You'd usually lose, but you'd never feel useless. Also, no matter what you brought to the table, all classes were designed to cooperate and flow together... and if there's one thing a PvM guild that went out of their way to take on end game challenges was good it, it was coordinated team play. That was a skill that actually carried over into WoE, and being good at it gave you a major edge. It doesn't now. Additionally, BGs actually ran, and Tierra and Flavius were great for casual PvP... not only upping skill levels, but meaning a lot of us actually did have PvP stuff from there.

4. Stats and skills vs gear. Most damage pre-Renewal came from your prime damage stat. My HWizzie had 99/99/25 stats, but I could slap on an immune and a cranial (you used both of these in bio, so you did have them, and PvP was actually profitable, so you could afford them), safety when I needed to, and specifically because I *didn't* have PvP stats (lol25vit), my spells would pack an enormous punch that was quite capable of taking out PvP build players, and quickly. Sure, I didn't have full PvP gear, and once people reached me, I was screwed, but I had a fighting chance, and I'd go down blasting. Now? If a PvM Lock is still alive after 5 seconds, it's because everyone's ignoring him, laughing at the damage, and focusing on actual threats.

5. Rethink what level does. If a 90 fought a 99 in pre-Renewal, they got -9 to hit and dodge, and of course had less HP, less SP, and less stat points. It was a significant gap, and it encouraged you to go all the way... but you were by no means screwed if you didn't. The equivalent now is a 130 fighting a 150, and you get 20^2/2 = -100 status resistance. Good luck surviving when all disables have a 100% chance to work!

6. Let PvM players make zeny. Seriously. Almost everything of value now is either a castle drop or purchased with KP. It's bad enough you need 1 bil+ to join WoE, but where do you get it without dropping a few hundred actual dollars on the game? Hell, I know someone who WAS in a major WoE guild, and ended up quitting because the several hundred he spends per year on this wasn't enough to stay competitive. Yikes!

Perhaps most important of all though:

7. Make PvM actually fun again. You aren't just losing WoE players, you're losing players period. For those who don't see WoE as the entire reason RO exists, something that you can join 4 hours/week isn't enough to get people to play at all. We need dungeons that are actually hard (as in requiring intelligent teamwork, not a gear check). We need instances that people actually want to run. We need class balance - including making every class actually valued in a party. We need challenging party play. As long as Gravity ignores all of this, people who play for PvM first and PvP second simply aren't going to reach PvP level. Out of the dozens of people I used to party with regularly, I don't think a single one of us has crossed the 130 line yet, and it's stupidly easy to get there with the TIs. We simply have no motivation to because leveling is boring and tedious instead of challenging and fun, and end game PvM is utterly annihilated, so if one of us DOES 150, it's not like there's anything to do when we get there.

[Kuropi]

Perhaps most important of all though:

7. Make PvM actually fun again. You aren't just losing WoE players, you're losing players period. For those who don't see WoE as the entire reason RO exists, something that you can join 4 hours/week isn't enough to get people to play at all. We need dungeons that are actually hard (as in requiring intelligent teamwork, not a gear check). We need instances that people actually want to run. We need class balance - including making every class actually valued in a party. We need challenging party play. As long as Gravity ignores all of this, people who play for PvM first and PvP second simply aren't going to reach PvP level. Out of the dozens of people I used to party with regularly, I don't think a single one of us has crossed the 130 line yet, and it's stupidly easy to get there with the TIs. We simply have no motivation to because leveling is boring and tedious instead of challenging and fun, and end game PvM is utterly annihilated, so if one of us DOES 150, it's not like there's anything to do when we get there.

True story. Hunting MVPs? Nothing they drop is worth hardly anything these days, not worth the time or supplies. Hunting drops from normal monsters? Nothing breaks anymore, you'll get maybe a couple mil from some of the rares for hours of your time. Hunting cards? LOL a couple Bio3 cards might be worth a lot, same with devilring and ghostring, but why hunt them when you can just farm a few Summoner MVPs for OCAs and get the same stuff out of those? Yeah. I pretty much play for WoE these days, cause there's no point playing for anything else, cept the occasional time a noob needs help, which is a pleasure.

Edited by Kuropi, 01 February 2012 - 04:52 PM.

[Sera]

Any reward for WoE would still have to take supplies into account, and I'm not really sure the GMs would even consider rewards on the scale of the supply.

[Kuropi]

Any reward for WoE would still have to take supplies into account, and I'm not really sure the GMs would even consider rewards on the scale of the supply.

The rewards people are talking about are a little bit different. Leave treasures as the way that we get funds for supplies, and the "Incentives" for WoEing would be something given to each individual player for him alone to keep. Personally, I don't think it's a terrible idea, but the logistics of how to determine who gets rewards to make it so you can't exploit it in many cases are just... Well, I don't even really wanna think about that. Some people have posted some interesting ideas on this topic though, that would be extremely hard to exploit, such as rewards for breaking high econ forts, since it takes so much time and work to get them to that point, and stuff like that. I personally think there is some merit to this idea and they should definitely look into some of these ideas.

[Sera]

Yeah, but the minute they implement rewards, you'll see people complaining about how it doesn't even cover the cost of their WoEing.

[Leonis1]

Guess i missed ironfist calling me out eh? First off let me tell you being a guild leader aint exactly easy. Back before i actually ASKED for help i was doing everything pretty much on my own. This means making slims/plant bottles/grenades/acids, brewing edps, vending loots so that i could supply the guild, trolling the market so i could collect supplies and giving out supplies before WoE. I had to make sure everyone had a party and all the ABs had the warps we needed. Now i have several people helping me and it saves my ass big time. You have no idea how much time and effort i have put into my guild and you calling me just a figurehead is a downright insult. As far as being greedy goes im not sure what information you have but we have no WoE1 god items in our guild and like 2-3 WoE2 gods. No MVP cards and only a few DR/GR/MP that are personally owned by people, not the guild so theres no gears or gods to give in the first place. So before you go accusing people of things make sure you have a remote idea of what your talking about.

[Kuropi]

Yeah, but the minute they implement rewards, you'll see people complaining about how it doesn't even cover the cost of their WoEing.

That's too bad, it's their guild leader's responsibility in most cases.

[Sera]

Xellie, FCP me *whine*

[IronFist]

Bellum gear isnt FFA, Only the highest enconded fort will get access to the dungeon, other castle owner can spend ALOT of donated zeny to get access for 5 days a week, they have 2 days to donate.

each person that donates will be given a token, which can be traded in towards other crap, also guild leader can sell access to their dungeon to other players for a fee.

The whole woe patch is actually really good, its a shame is hasnt been added before those stupid homunculus like kro did

[Kuropi]

Bellum gear isnt FFA, Only the highest enconded fort will get access to the dungeon, other castle owner can spend ALOT of donated zeny to get access for 5 days a week, they have 2 days to donate.

each person that donates will be given a token, which can be traded in towards other crap, also guild leader can sell access to their dungeon to other players for a fee.

The whole woe patch is actually really good, its a shame is hasnt been added before those stupid homunculus like kro did

Uh, honestly, 70M isn't much (the required donation amount) and that's spread between all 4 guilds in the realm. The ECON of the castle does not matter. The castle who donated the most is the one that gets access if 70M is not reached. In addition to this, a SINGLE GEAR dropped from one of those monsters would more than pay for the entire 70M if they're vendable, so I would be more than willing to pay the entire amount myself just so I could hunt there. I'm not the only one, I'm sure.

Edited by Kuropi, 01 February 2012 - 10:19 PM.

[Zinja]

I would like to see a small individual reward... I've seen a lot of effort go into a guild only to have the leader take all the profit. As to what that reward could be, no idea. 50k zeny? Maybe an item reward that's not too game breaking like a Battle Manual or an Eden Merit Badge.

Next question would be how do you determine who participated in WoE? You can't reward everyone that shows up on a WoE map as that's not really playing... Not sure how they'd go about that.

Guilds /guild leaders that get castles get treasure box loots,pieces as rewards and incentive to cover supplies profit and ready up for next woe.

Individual rewards sounds good. But how do you develop a system to give individual rewards?

Indivudial reward must be somethign that the players get directly without having to depend on the good graces of any one else.
I had said kvm/bg because only the player can benifit from it as a means to improve their standing in woe. It is not something they can sell for profit.
here their experience is directly rewarded in tangible means.

KVM/BG badges would be an interesting reward. It's not something you can really "farm" for profit, but people who are not perfectly geared for woe feel too intimidated to participate until they are geared. Having the rewards for WoEing be something that could help you with WoE would be good for those people, as well as people who already have those, since bg tokens can be used for account bound consumables too.

I doubt this would ever happen. But a good system to create woe incentive is make a system where the guild leader can supply people with more than just supplies for WoE alone. Maybe other gears that can be dropped only from castles that arent great for PvP but are great for PvM. That way as leaders we can distribute these gears to the guild rewards for attendance.

again this is something dependent on the good graces and the mighty good nature of the leader to give it to them.
look at it from a casual player or a player less motivated to woe how is it going to directly / personally benefit their standing.

WOE has incentives, just your greedy leaders dont share.

Not every one is like that , But even with the good leaders they do tend to share only with the core team. The one excuse i hear is the big L word and the bravado and bigotry associated with it, L as in Loyalty. You cant imagine the twisted way's i have seen it get mangled to serve the purpose of few greddy leaders, No taking names but i have seen a fair share of them.

IT is also true that a guild life sees it through a lot of transitory members , new coming in , old joining back, ppl leaving for trysts with others et all.So there does always arise this big excuse of guilds afraid to invest in members because of this.

All the while decreasing or forgetting the idea or notion of rewarding its members for a successful woe. But few have mentioned there be
additional rewards that the guild leaders can distribute to their players.

But the point here is whats to stop those rewards from being not given/shared to guild members like the current loots,
It funny how things like treasure always tend to fall short of requirements for guild funds, even when you have things like guild ET runs.

Hence a system of rewards or incentive directly to the actual player for participating in woe regardless of who he is associated with will attract good attention and motivate people to participate and enjoy woe more. In essence you are actually improving the quality of players in woe directly .


One basic thing to consider is,
if a person is participating in woe and likes it, he will try to better himself and get deeply involved in the drama/fights which is good for every one in the big picture.

[Kuropi]

One basic thing to consider is,
if a person is participating in woe and likes it, he will try to better himself and get deeply involved in the drama/fights which is good for every one in the big picture.

I dunno bout other people, but drama is what STOPPED me from joining big guilds for the longest time. Even on here, quaint~ was a small guild, and mergers and a persistance in WoE turned us into what Immaculate is today. If there was lots of drama, I wouldn't be there. But I agree. I've actually gone out of my way, to great personal expense, to get better gears that I only use during WoE, because I found a guild that I actually enjoy doing WoE with, so I think that's true. It's funny. At one time we were losing members because we chose to fight Valkyrie, and it wasn't much fun. Now we gain them because we DO fight Valkyrie and it IS fun. How times have changed...

[Hideasu]

if i may share my modest opinion :
u woe to help your guild more of it have fun so giving ppl rewards i rally dont see whats the need
its for the G.leader / atmosphere of the guild to motivate u .
so if u wanna woe we <3 u long time if no go lvl or mvp or w/e makes u happy, Ro is not only abt woe ^^

[Heart]

if i may share my modest opinion :
u woe to help your guild more of it have fun so giving ppl rewards i rally dont see whats the need
its for the G.leader / atmosphere of the guild to motivate u .
so if u wanna woe we <3 u long time if no go lvl or mvp or w/e makes u happy, Ro is not only abt woe ^^

exactly, its about enjoying the game...

but since GMs think woe needs a boost in players, i say this is the best idea for it

[viceroyblue]

I'm curious as to how that patch will bring more incentive to WoE, when actually it seems like it'll make it more of an unorganized mess. Such as parts from all forts, this means now that guilds will farm a single fort? Holding the most defensible and then sniping down smaller guilds in the harder to hold forts in the last few minutes.

Talk about Luina 4.

[Kuropi]

RO isn't only about WoE, no, but this topic is about getting people who already play RO to participate in the 4 hours pvp events every week more often, because the bigger and more confusing the battles, the more fun it tends to get And it's always nice to see new people in WoE.

Edited by Kuropi, 02 February 2012 - 01:52 AM.

[Xellie]

I love all this individual reward stuff, it's like guildmembers don't ask to use god items or for free supplies or something.
It's like treasure doesn't go into supplies and the guild leader keeps it.

I think you'll find the majority of the time, that isn't the case.

If you want access to god items, you woe with a guild that owns / makes them. They give you free crap to kill people with, you win, you gain bragging rights about being in a guild with said stuff that always wins. You want to go to the top of ET? You join a guild that has the items and then profit off the tower loot.

Why the hell do people need to be given more crap than that? Battle grounds are for BG stuff, TIs are for eden badges. Play the game.

Talk about Luina 4.

I LOVE THAT FORT!
Ideally you'd think it'd be really good to defend, but once the enemy alliance has a foothold on the pedestal in room 3 to the emp room, Then your leaders will not be able to get into the emp room very easilly and it boils down to a pure emp room battle. You have to recall staggered from left to right to just buy as much time as possible if the door falls. It's not actually that fantastic as a fort to econ, but it is fun!

My Luina 4 side rant thing:

Spoiler

Econed it to 95+ but then I had to go on vacation and my allies pissed off the server and lost it. qq but I sided with our enemies for doing so and my allies got sooooo mad at me. I would have broken it too if I was them! My guild was so pissed off too!

Ok. That's what WoE used to be about.

[Chris]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't Lunia 4 one of the castles that gets scrapped from each realm?

[Xellie]

It is, and that makes me sad.

[Xellie]

But the point here is whats to stop those rewards from being not given/shared to guild members like the current loots,
It funny how things like treasure always tend to fall short of requirements for guild funds, even when you have things like guild ET runs.

I'm sick of this crap.
Re-reading this makes me think of guildmembers like this.

(The guildleader is hunting in goats for antelope horns to pay for woe, they had given this newbie the money from the last set of treasure as they were just starting on the server. - this means that they had no pot money. - The newbie starts begging to use the leader's icepick)

New Member : well dear kinda having a hard time here
New Member : as i fell for your words
New Member : how fast can you level
GuildLeader : Im sorry I want to use my own gear to raise the guild fund
GuildLeader : we've given you some advice on a good hunting ground for money
New Member : yes true not denying that
GuildLeader : and you're poopooing us
New Member : o_O
GuildLeader : all you're like is "give me stuff"
GuildLeader : when Im like
GuildLeader : hey you know
GuildLeader : you wanted a loan
GuildLeader : I finally have the money
GuildLeader : and here you are harrassing me for MORE
New Member : O_o
New Member : lissen dear <leader's name> i didnt mean to offend or harras you
New Member : frankly i have seen my share of mean guild masters so im little defens
New Member : defensive
GuildLeader : you're 7x goats will rape you ;(
New Member : yea thats what i wanted to check out
GuildLeader : well I kinda need my icepick to go there myself ;p
New Member : i have a major mistake recently wich i havent done in all ma years
New Member : i started expecting stuff wich i dont really ever do
GuildLeader : I told you I have no problem helping you out
New Member : probably cos i was used to giving stuff so doesnt really matter to m
GuildLeader : but when it takes from my work
GuildLeader : and you keep making it sound like Im trying to fob you off
GuildLeader : then yes Im going to get offended
New Member : no dear understand this im not kind of chepe tard who ask for stuff
New Member : n keeps harasing the guildies
New Member : you talk about being an eletist im one my self
New Member : i like to keep my hunting gear monster specific
New Member : for that it takes time
GuildLeader : then I recommend a cheaper starting point
New Member : i got the false impression that you wanted me at high level asap
New Member : so thats why i asked you the stuf
GuildLeader : well I only have one icepick and Im not job 70
New Member : heck i even ruined ma 1 week of holidays grinding all the time i coul
GuildLeader : and I need money to run the guild
GuildLeader : that means
New Member : my mistake to realise it was just a game
GuildLeader : guess what it means?!
New Member : i dont expect zeny or stuff from you
GuildLeader : it means I need my gear
GuildLeader : then quit guilt tripping me
GuildLeader : you're wasting my bubblegum
New Member : then dont presurise on fast levels
New Member : coz i aint going no where
New Member : the first day we talked you were like you gota level fast

This same member never beleived the leader when they said they were broke, because "all guildleader have money". This leader posted the treasure and all of the guilds funding on the forums. But this new member knew better and made accusations much like this. Perhaps before people accuse guildleaders of being scammers, they should a/ do the math and b/ get some proof.

Edited by Xellie, 02 February 2012 - 09:32 AM.

[Hrishi]

You know what is going to kill the upcoming system? Safe certs and enriched hammer! Everyone will get 1 piece of bellum gear and WoE will become pointless again.

[Dawei]

I love all this individual reward stuff, it's like guildmembers don't ask to use god items or for free supplies or something.
It's like treasure doesn't go into supplies and the guild leader keeps it.

I think you'll find the majority of the time, that isn't the case.

If you want access to god items, you woe with a guild that owns / makes them. They give you free crap to kill people with, you win, you gain bragging rights about being in a guild with said stuff that always wins. You want to go to the top of ET? You join a guild that has the items and then profit off the tower loot.

Why the hell do people need to be given more crap than that? Battle grounds are for BG stuff, TIs are for eden badges. Play the game.

exactly my point i don't understand why people need to get an incentive from the GMs for doing woe. When i did participated in woe, the incentive was just to be part of a group of friends fighting for a purpose or just for fun. In fact i made it a point to hunt items to SUPPLY my guild. Now when you walk into woe or see woe videos that "purpose" does not exist. if you check the flags its the same guilds every week holding 3~5 castles and all the smaller guilds just filling in the rest. also taking castles isnt a challenge i have said it before the WoE 1 castles just have a small group of people either running through it or just camping the emp. Also i can't fathom how individual incentives would work globally and not be farmed....heck if they were giving kvm, emb, manuals i would farm it with my 41 characters. Individual incentives should come from the guild not the GMs or else we are just going back to the whole "GM'S!! GIVE ME EVERYTHING IN RO TO MAKE ME PLAY!!!" its a game...if you don't like it don't play it....go play something else. Also there are my things stopping me from WoEing then just "i hate woe". i work full time so Wednesday time slot doesn't work, also i go to school at night so my only night to do anything is Saturday...and im not going to spend it on RO sorry i'm not 15 anymore as i once was. but other reasons being is, whats the point of Woe for god items when you can spend those supplies and money else where to make zeny and just buy one? face it..god items don't have any rarity anymore, and because of this fact guilds don't really have a need to compete for them anymore. really woe is just another chance to go to PVP but its just scheduled. anyone can be an "EMP breaker" with the new way emps are set up.

Here are my ideas or feelings of ways WoE could be improved:

Castle holding:
1. something i think would be fun and difference would be have normal WoE activity, but during none woe times i think it would be interesting if there were a way to activate woe on a certain castle. basically a guild could pay some type of fee or item collection to "Siege" a castle. basically it would give a time or notify the guild leader that in a certain amount of time...30mins or 1hr etc the castle is going to be sieged. this would give incentive to those players who can't make the designated woe times a chance to participate. also to prevent the larger guilds or even just a couple people stacked with god items for farming this, the guild being sieged would have an advantage for instance...upon notification of a siege the castle portal is locked and guardians spawn in every room. Basically enough to stop 3~4 people. the idea is for both guilds to have an chance to prepare and time things so it could be a offensive/defensive battle. as woe once was. basically the idea is to make the castle more like an instance.

2. Another thought of mine is that there are more castles then there are guilds. a thought would be for the 2 hrs have certain realms open at a time. this would give guilds a chance to focus on defending one realm at a time. for instances balder/Valk are open 3-4pm and Brit/Lunia are open 4-5pm as for woe2 you would just have one realm open an hour the other open for an hour. this forces guilds to work together and and actually defend instead of just run from one castle to the next all woe till the last 5 mins. this has been happening for years!

Guilds/Castles:
this can apply for out of woe as well. we have had..trans class added, we have had renewal, third class, and balance patch to the classes and associated skills. why have guild skills and guilds not had anything done to them. can guild space be expanded? maybe add new skills or buff the old ones i mean....+5 stats for standing next to the guild leader is nice but not always a benefit.... maybe the "personal incentive" can be on the guild level...maybe make the exp requirement double for newer skills but make them more global rather then in a few cells. new players ask "what is the incentive to be in a guild." and the only response you really can give them is "so you have people to talk to." why not make being part of a guild more then just a social network..i could do the same thing on facebook in fact my old guild HAS a facebook so whats the diffence between guild chat and guild facebook? Besides the fact that i can see my guilds facebook from my phone lol. there is so much that could be done with guilds. why not a have a clearance type skill that guild leaders can use in and outside woe for large guild parties.

as for castles... this i think should have more to it. yah woohoo storage~ cool but no one uses it, guild leaders just go in to get treasure. Maybe expand the services to include teleport services at a discounted rate, make the city flags warp guild members to the kafra girl in the castle. its sad for the longest times guilds have had "guild spots" in cities rather then just hanging out in their owned castle....doesn't make much sense.

Classes:
please stop trying to "Fix" the classes globally to make Woe more even. it has never been even and will never be even. One class is buffed, then gets nerfed. A new class is buffed, then gets nerfed. I started woe as a hunter in the glorious days of hunter...what happened...we got nerfed...we get stuck in our own traps, our damage is reduced to nothing, and we still have no def. i woed as a sniper as well, and would woe on my ranger...its not a strong class but its my favorite class and that is why i play it but i know how and i know what to do to survive. in fact my guild title was "Kill me, I'm squishy". if your complaining about classes being OP that to me is just crying "i don't know how to play my class."
.........this one is more of a rant.....and its over.

I LOVE THAT FORT!
Ideally you'd think it'd be really good to defend, but once the enemy alliance has a foothold on the pedestal in room 3 to the emp room, Then your leaders will not be able to get into the emp room very easilly and it boils down to a pure emp room battle. You have to recall staggered from left to right to just buy as much time as possible if the door falls. It's not actually that fantastic as a fort to econ, but it is fun!

My Luina 4 side rant thing:

Spoiler

Econed it to 95+ but then I had to go on vacation and my allies pissed off the server and lost it. qq but I sided with our enemies for doing so and my allies got sooooo mad at me. I would have broken it too if I was them! My guild was so pissed off too!

Ok. That's what WoE used to be about.

i remember this well. ~<3 lunia 4.
but that block sure was fun to arrow shower status effects onto!

Edited by Dawei, 02 February 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[Xellie]

^ you sound like the kind of guildmember I would like.

The only issue I see with opening one realm at a time is it would be the same as having forced us to fight WAVE when we had 15 people instead of running off looking for sasuke or absolute.
We wouldn't have bothered.

I agree with everything else you posted but DAMMNIT. I AM NOT GETTING KAFRA FOR GUILD.