123 replies to this topic

[shado]

Let's try this again. I will attempt to remove all personal factors and bias from this post, and leave only the opposing arguments. I fully intend to keep posting this until it is answerered, once and for all, by Heimdallr, Oda, or Corvus.

The reason I refuse to send in a ticket is because
1: It will not get answered by one of the three people above
2: It will not be answered fully if not by one of the three people above
3: It will not be posted here, on the forum, for everyone to see the answer, regardless of what it may be.

The Debate: Mini Valks can or cannot be competed for.

Definition of competition:
Opposing players attempting to do whatever possible in order to obtain loot rights to the monster. Competition is not to be confused with Skill abuse.

Definition of loot rights:
The ability to obtain the loot before another player
Things that factor into obtaining loot rights: Taking damage from and dealing damage to the monster, and obtaining the first hit. If you are dead when the monster dies and would have had loot rights, the next in line gets them.

Definition of Skill abuse:
Anything intentionally done to prevent the opposing competitor from being able to deal damage to the monster.
Examples of this are Pnuemas to block Acid Bomb, Safety Wall for Gfist, Healing the monster, And many other tricks too numerous to list.

The Argument:

Against Competition/"KillStealing"
1: Competition is only for MvPs
2: Mini Valks are not MvPs
I'm kinda tired and think that is it. Let me know if I missed something and I will gladly add it.

For Competition
1: 100 Valhalla's Flower are required to make the God item Brynhild.
1.1: Valhalla's Flower can only be obtained (Excluding buying from Players) from:
1.11: Valk Randgris (8 Hour Spawn)
1.12: Mini valk (2 Spawns every 1.5-2 Hours)
1.13: Endless Tower Mini Valks (1 Per Instance)
1.14: Endless Tower Mini Valk set 1 (5 Per Instance)
1.15: Endless Tower Mini Valk set 2 (1 in 7 chance for 5 Per Instance)
1.26: Endless tower has a Four day Cooldown, and requires a group to complete efficiently, making this not a viable way to obtain Valhalla's Flower
2: If you are able to compete and successfully obtain loot rights, you deserve the loot.
3: Mini Valks are a Higher Tier than Mini Bosses
3.1: Much harder to kill (Comparative to other mini bosses.)
3.2: Value of items (Stated above)
3.3: Rare Spawn items need to make a God Item
4: God items are to be competed for in order to be made. This is why WoE exists, and is what the game revolves around. Brynhild is a god item, is no different, and is not exempt. There is no logic or reason behind obtaining ownership of these monsters simply because you walked onto the screen first. If you are able to be beaten in getting loot rights, which were created with the sole purpose of settling disputes such as this, then you do not, by the mechanics of the game, deserve the chance at getting the items from it during that kill. You were already given a major advantage by getting the first hit (Has the most priority in deciding the loot rights), you have had more time than the copetition to deal damage. If you do not obtain the loot rights, it is because you did not do enough damage in order deserve them more than your competitor. You have equal opportunity, as does your competition, to try again with the next spawn.

This is all I can think of at the moment, my mind is on other things IRL Related.

If something in this post is against the rules, please inform me with a link to the rule (In a post/list by a GM/CM) so that I may remove it without this topic being censored a fourth time. I fully intend to press this issue until it is resolved by one of the three people mentioned, on this forum, for all to see.

For those wondering, this took about 30 minutes to write. I went to college.

Edited by shado, 11 February 2012 - 03:19 AM.

[shado]

Please keep personal arguments away from this thread. The point of this thread is to obtain a decision by the people that run this game, not to obtain masses of player speculation.

If you think something should be added to either argument, or I forgot/posted something incorrect, please let me know in an intelligent post so that I may fix it.

[MetalFox]

You should drop it.

KS'ing Valks is against the rules i personally have been temp banned for ks'ing mini valks.

[shado]

You should drop it.

KS'ing Valks is against the rules i personally have been temp banned for ks'ing mini valks.

This is not an official response. True or not, this is speculation until confirmed by a CM/GM.
This type of post is what I do not want in this thread.

[nein]

Please keep personal arguments away from this thread.

how about you follow your own advice and adhere to the game rules
don't make up your own just because your personal feelings told you to

[MetalFox]

Sure its not a official response but it is the GM's official way of dealing with the matter.

[Hrishi]

How the hell is that speculation when he says he has been banned in the past for KSing minis? Minis are NOT MvPs, therefore they do not follow the FFA rule.

[shado]

How the hell is that speculation when he says he has been banned in the past for KSing minis? Minis are NOT MvPs, therefore they do not follow the FFA rule.

Have you never played the telephone game?

An official response said through someone else's mouth takes on their own spin and alters the original meaning. This is also largely effected by the cryptic copy/paste responses that the GM's give, and in the way that they never handle the exact same issue the exact same way. Any post by someone other than the three people listed is not a definitive and absolute answer.

Please read and understand what I have written before jumping to conclusions and trying to bring the thread down (Again)

Edited by shado, 11 February 2012 - 03:07 AM.

[Inubashiri]

I give up. Have fun.

Edited by Inubashiri, 11 February 2012 - 03:06 AM.

[MetalFox]

Well goodluck with w/e your trying too accomplish

[shado]

MVP=FFA, everything else ilegal to ks, has been like that for years, not time to bend the rules just for your own benefit or greed

One line response to an opinion written in a way to fully explain my meaning contributes nothing, and is just plain rude. If your opinion differs from mine, I welcome it. Given that you are one of the people that created the original thread, you obviously have an opinion about this. A post like that is only meant as a personal attack against me to favor your side of the argument. Please stop acting like a child and formulate a counterargument, instead of trying to make me look bad. This is intended to be a mature discussion amongst mature people. I know that is a lot to ask for on a video game forum, but let's try to be adults please.

Edited by shado, 11 February 2012 - 03:28 AM.

[Agahim]

i doubt the length of an argument indicates its value.
are you losing your cool?

Edited by Agahim, 11 February 2012 - 03:49 AM.

[shado]

i doubt the length of an argument indicates it's value.
are you losing your cool?

I doubt that people who do not read what someone writes have any idea about what was written.

I don't lose my cool, I just want an answer.

[Agahim]

I doubt that people who do not read what someone writes have any idea about what was written.

I don't lose my cool, I just want an answer.

well you got "some" answers. i doubt you can afford to be picky.

[shado]

well you got "some" answers. i doubt you can afford to be picky.

The people that run this game have their jobs in order to provide a service. Part of this is setting rules, and explaining them when they are not clear. Players are not CM's, and have no place in speaking as if they are such.

I am a longtime player of this game, and feel that if I take the time to ask a proper question, I deserve a response that isn't copied out of a GM's frequent ticket reply notepad.

[Agahim]

The people that run this game have their jobs in order to provide a service. Part of this is setting rules, and explaining them when they are not clear. Players are not CM's, and have no place in speaking as if they are such.

I am a longtime player of this game, and feel that if I take the time to ask a proper question, I deserve a response that isn't copied out of a GM's frequent ticket reply notepad.

wait what? you're a long time player of ragnarok and yet you expect a personal reply from GMs to whatever matter it is you currently have problems with?
you're contradicting yourself, dude. maybe it's time for sleep?

[silentFuzz]

I don't feel like this warrants a long post since the arguments are pretty clear and I don't see this being resolved by further arguing unless there's new points to bring up or anything else other than an answer from the three people you mentioned.

Edited by silentFuzz, 11 February 2012 - 04:01 AM.

[Raidius]

i didnt start the post, im not on valkyrie guild, and i never pointed at you dunno what you talking about

[HyuugaNeji]

If it's not an MvP. You're KS'ing.

How hard is that to understand?

If I screened you KS'ing my mini boss I'd report you, and get you banned, every time.

So, next question please.

[shado]

wait what? you're a long time player of ragnarok and yet you expect a personal reply from GMs to whatever matter it is you currently have problems with?
you're contradicting yourself, dude. maybe it's time for sleep?

No. I use tickets like everyone else. I expect a real reply when only a real reply can resolve the issue. I have not once contradicted myself. Please read what I have written before posting.

I don't feel like warrants a long post since the arguments are pretty clear and I don't see this being resolved by further arguing unless there's new points to bring up or anything else other than an answer from the three people you mentioned.

You would think so, and yet no answer would ever have been given if you make it easy for them to find a way to wiggle out from answering, otherwise one would have already been given.

i didnt start the post, im not on valkyrie guild, and i never pointed at you dunno what you talking about

Sorry. If you don't want to be judged by what your one line response implies, write more than one line.

[shado]

If it's not an MvP. You're KS'ing.

How hard is that to understand?

If I screened you KS'ing my mini boss I'd report you, and get you banned, every time.

So, next question please.

You are not a GM. You do not make rules. your interpretation of the rule is not what is used to govern this game. If you read something for a change, you would realize that your post contributes absolutely nothing to this thread. So, move to the next thread please.

Edited by shado, 11 February 2012 - 03:52 AM.

[shado]

It's been a rule since like, 2004.

You're pretty bad.

Personal attacks are against the rules.
Your post is not constructive.
Your post is not wanted in this thread until it is.
Deal with it, don't bring my thread down.

[Agahim]

No. I use tickets like everyone else. I expect a real reply when only a real reply can resolve the issue. I have not once contradicted myself. Please read what I have written before posting.

you got several replies, all of which stated the same thing. you know the answer. trying to get another answer from GMs makes you appear desperate.

you did contradict yourself, i even pointed out when and where. i'd appreciate if you read what i write aswell. please take your own advice.

[Raidius]

Free for All
(Redirected from Free for all)

FFA is an acronym and stands for Free for all, meaning anyone can attack that monster regardless of who summoned it, who is attacking it, or who is being attacked by it. FFA is a designation applied to certain types of monsters. Monsters which fall under this designation include:

MVPs
Dead Branch/Bloody Branch summoned Monsters
Town Invasion Monsters
Hocus-pocus summoned Monsters
Other player summoned Monsters, such as through Cultivate Plant - however this can be considered very rude

The FFA designation does not apply to "mini-bosses" or any other type of monster. Attacking any non-FFA monsters is considered Kill Stealing, and may result in being banned. Please be careful not to attack any monsters that aren't FFA.

Some monsters that spawn in towns are not considered FFA, such as the event Lucky Dragons in 2006. The Wild Roses that appear in towns however, are generally considered FFA.

This page was last modified on 4 August 2010, at 15:57.

from irowiki. as you can see this is old stuff now, you trying to change rules to your own benefit

Edited by Raidius, 11 February 2012 - 04:02 AM.

[shado]

from irowiki. as you can see this is old stuff now, you trying to change rules to your own benefit

I appreciate the intelligent reply.

You misinterpreted my intentions. What I want is not a blanket statement like the one you posted, as, stated in the original post, it is my opinion that mini valks are on a much higher tier of monster than regular mini bosses. Also, as all of you love to point out, they are not even mini bosses at all.

imo, they should be their own class or moved up to an MvP, or just given FFA ruling because of the high value of their loot.

I don't say this because I want to benefit from it. I'm saying it because if I get banned for doing something completely logical (competing with other players for a monster that has a lot of value to it), I'm going to be really pissed off. They should be changed not for my benefit, but because of the value they hold. Mini Valks are the most valuable monster in game to kill besides satan morroc, and should be treated as such. (Excluding 1% and .01% drops from mvps, obviously.)

Edited by shado, 11 February 2012 - 04:12 AM.