500 replies to this topic

[Kadelia]

Because they ran out of ideas (or fear of doing something overpowered) and made something balanced instead.

You know, extd. super novices are a unique class due to the fact no equipment focus on anything, unless the item is a weapon.

This made me LOL because the hat is super-overpowerd as is and the powers should be split among hat and 2 accessories as they are. The set bonus could be it autocasted lvl 1 [Spirit of Super Novice] soul link at 0.5% chance when melee attacking or 1% when doing spell damage, that way SN can use any lvl 4 weapon they wanted (when lvling only pretty much).

Ascendant Crown [1]

A copy of the legendary artifact left behind by the greatest Super Novice to ever walk the earth. The real one has been lost
for ages, but this replica can imitate some of its awesome power.

-All Stats +10
-Max HP +15%
-Max SP +15%
-Attack +15%
-MATK +15%
-Hit +20
-Flee +20
-Crit +20
-Perfect Dodge +10
-Attack Speed +5
-Magic Defense +20
-Reduces Variable Cast Time by 20%
-Reduce 5% damage from Neutral Property

20 Defense
5 Weight
Upper Only
Super Novice Only
Requires level 100

Supernovices are pretty weak but this headgear is disproportionately strong by LEAPS AND BOUNDS AND YET MORE LEAPS AND BOUNDS compared to other items in the game (even ones designed for SN).

I'd do like:

Hat
HP +400, Flee +12, Mdef +5.
All stats +3.
Reduce damage from neutral property by 5%.
MDef + 6.

Defense: 7
Weight: 20
Position: Upper
Job: Super Novice
Level Requirement: 100

Accessory
HP +600, All stats +2.
MDef +5.
If Base STR greater than or equal to 90, Aspd +8% & ATK +30.
If Base INT greater than or equal to 90, MATK +50.

[Combo with Hat]
Attack Speed +2.
Reduces fixed cast time on skills by 0.3 seconds.
On close-range physical attack, there is a 0.5% chance to automatically cast [Super Novice Spirit] Lv. 1.
On magical attack, there is a 1% chance to automatically cast [Super Novice Spirit] Lv. 1.

Defense: 0
Weight: 10
Position: Accessory
Job: Super Novice
Level Requirement: 100

Edited by Jaye, 12 October 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[Chigikogou]

Pretty OP Super Novice gear!!!

but that would balance the debalance that was bestowed to the class.. though it may make it a Necessity just to play a Super Novice though.

[Kadelia]

My set proposal is far, far less OP and still looks pretty darn appealing for SN, in my opinion, and is WAY more balanced since it needs the accessory like every other set.

[MrTyranitar]

My set proposal is far, far less OP and still looks pretty darn appealing for SN, in my opinion, and is WAY more balanced since it needs the accessory like every other set.

> overpowered
> SN

Should I take you seriously...? And again, we can't have SL skills auto-casted.

Edited by MrTyranitar, 12 October 2012 - 01:20 PM.

[Kadelia]

Have it autocast Coluseo heal lvl 1 at 1% chance, might give SN some party usefulness :>

Edited by Jaye, 12 October 2012 - 01:30 PM.

[MrTyranitar]

Have it autocast Coluseo heal lvl 1 at 1% chance, might give SN some party usefulness :>

They won't take hits, or if you mean dealing hits, that still isn't going to happen.

The only thing that needed to happen with Inu's SN hat was making the HP/MP% into a flat modifier, similarly to a Brynhild, or something.

[Inubashiri]

Stop fighting on my thread, gtfo, you have a suggestion PM it to me sheesh.

Status is we were working on the quests for now since they take longer to write.

[Rumm]

Could you design a headgear that allows Magnus Exorcismus to hit all types of monsters? It would really make playing ME priest/hp/ab way more fun (especially priest/hp on classic).

The design could be something like the pope's actual hat, or some other huge fun priestie hat

Edited by Rumm, 15 October 2012 - 08:41 AM.

[Kadelia]

I'm pretty sure they can't do that and that'd also be pretty absurd (turning priests into a wizard). ME does something like 1000% * 5 to things in the AoE, thats about as good as storm gust, if it worked on all enemies....

... and would pretty much make judex pointless...

Edited by Jaye, 15 October 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[asayuu]

I was bored.

• Night Sparrow Hat [1]

A hat named after the mysterious bird that sings at night. It’s song is used to cause night blindness to mask its true form in order to eat humans that stray too deep into the forest.

-Reduces fixed casting time of all skills by 5% for each level of Voice Lessons learned.

-If upgraded to +7 or higher:

increases ranged damage by 15%;

increases ATK in 5 for every 10 base DEX;

-If upgraded to +9 or higher:

Decreases cooldown of Metallic Sound in 1.5 seconds;

Increases MATK in 5 for every 5 base INT;

**Set Bonus** If the equipped weapon class is a Whip, it grants the following bonuses:

[Weapon Level 1 or 2]

+5 ATK for every refine of the weapon;

+5 MATK for every refine of the weapon;

+1 ASPD for every six refines of the weapon;

[Weapon Level 3 or 4]

+10 ATK for every refine of the weapon;

+10 MATK for every refine of the weapon;

+1 ASPD for every five refines of the weapon;

**Set Bonus** Seal of Night Bird Chorus [0]

- + 50 ATK / MATK.

- Increases the ranged damage by an additional 50%.

- Decreases cooldown of Severe Rainstorm in 2 seconds.

- Adds a 1% chance to restore 5% of the damage dealt as SP to the user with each physical attack.

15 Defense

20 Weight

Upper Only

Wanderer Only

Requires Level 100

• Seal of Night Bird Chorus [0]

-Increases Reverberation and Metallic Sound skills damage in 75%;

-Adds a 5% chance to restore 10% of the damage dealt as HP to the user with each physical attack.

-Reduces damage received from [Fire], [Earth], [Wind] and [Water] element attacks by 5%.

Class: Accessory

Defense: 5

Weight: 10

Required Level: 100

Jobs: Wanderer Only

And the same for Maestro, just changing the weapon class to instrument.

Changed all the SR pure boosts to ranged boosts, which will contribute on the damage of the other performer skills, but lowering the power of the rainstorm.

Another "nice" fact about Super Novices, which can't be forgotten is:

They can use ALL the hats from those lists. So I believe most will not use the Super-Novice exclusive hat.

For sure most caster novices will be using Sorcerer's or Chaser's hat, and...
Melee novices would be using Linker or GX... Or even Sorcerer due to the ASPD bonus too.

Edited by asayuu, 15 October 2012 - 10:55 AM.

[Kadelia]

I think that is a bit too much honestly (total of +75% ranged damage lol...). Severe rainstorm only does like ~18% less damage than it did before the balance patch. +25% ranged damage is more than enough. In fact, getting like 110 equip atk from that dex conversion thing is more than enough and the ranged damage boosts can go, honestly.

+12 whip and +9 hat would be +110 MATK with 110 base INT, +120 MATK for the refines of the whip, 130 MATK from a rose vine whip itself, this being 360, then with 50 from the set thats 410 equip MATK... wowza. With this amount of MATK metallic sound would be quite good, and reverberation would be devastating, specially considering the +280 weapon ATK you're also giving. Delete the ranged damage boosts and I'd be all over this idea lol. 160 or w/e weapon atk for the set and refining the hat would be more than enough boost to AV/SR/etc without the range boost on top of it.

Edited by Jaye, 15 October 2012 - 10:39 AM.

[Rumm]

I'm pretty sure they can't do that and that'd also be pretty absurd (turning priests into a wizard). ME does something like 1000% * 5 to things in the AoE, thats about as good as storm gust, if it worked on all enemies....

... and would pretty much make judex pointless...

Judex is a finishing move if the mob lives through ME or its used to exp tap...
Anywho ME is still weaker then SG, ME hits slower, and the status effect it causes is way weaker. It really doesn't threaten SG at all.

[asayuu]

Updated, weakening +7 effects in a bit.

When I left all those ranged boosters, it's because I had an less optimized build (1 agi, 110 dex) and my pre-balance damage was 4000 /hit and dropped to 1600 / hit.

[Kadelia]

Judex is a finishing move if the mob lives through ME or its used to exp tap...
Anywho ME is still weaker then SG, ME hits slower, and the status effect it causes is way weaker. It really doesn't threaten SG at all.

It does damage in bigger chunks so its less likely to be mitigated by soft mdef than SG!

Updated, weakening +7 effects in a bit.

When I left all those ranged boosters, it's because I had an less optimized build (1 agi, 110 dex) and my pre-balance damage was 4000 /hit and dropped to 1600 / hit.

Iunno , my wanderer has -no- agi and I still do good damage. I don't think you're geared/buffed right when comparing the before/after dmg. Like I said, we didn't even get elven arrow until after SR was nerfed, so wanderer damage went up after it went down.

Edited by Jaye, 16 October 2012 - 08:14 AM.

[Kadelia]

You know, I was thinking. I could code these in javascript for the RO calc (same on on iRO Wiki) so you could tests the set effects on sim monsters and see if the damage output and whatnot is overpowered.

(I know some of them are overpowerd by looking at them, like the supernovice getting +5 aspd... lol mental strength + shield breaking emp at 193 aspd...)

[asayuu]

Yeah. With a simulator it's easier to manage a few of the stuff.

I recalculated everything. With the reformed stats, it hits just slighty higher rainstorms than pre-balance, with the +100 attack boost from the set, and the 15% ranged.

(I downloaded the source and changed the formula to pre-balance to compare.)

Using two accessories (The thing of 75% reverb damage), they were hitting 20k with the bow, and heck... topping 30k with thana whip. Also topping 45k metallic sounds on the "player" target, but with amplifiers.

Okay, the character is ungeared except whip, hat and amplifiers. Using a bryn and backpack, I can reach this result on metallic sound:

Minimum Damage 38692 (9673X4hit)
Average Damage 46180 (11545X4hit)
Maximum Damage 53732 (13433X4hit)

Freaking standard deviation. After applying reductions, it still damages less than around 10k per blow.

All the hats should have this:

When physically attacking, gives 1% chance to autocast level 1 Maximize Power, the rate increases by 1% every 3 refines;
When magically attacking, gives 1% chance to autocast level 1 Recognized Spell, the rate increases by 1% every 3 refines;

Edited by asayuu, 16 October 2012 - 09:17 AM.

[Kadelia]

If you use the RWC dagger instead of the whip of thana, the average damage is about the same but the variation is almost gone (because its all equip/upgrade matk instead of weapon matk, so it doesn't vary).

Edited by Jaye, 16 October 2012 - 09:29 AM.

[Moyton]

Magician Night Cap [1]


A hat that promotes a sophisticated yet sleepy look. It once belonged to an ancient magician who was well known for her vast knowledge and lazy behaviour, to the point she was nicknamed "The Great Unmoving Library."


-Adds 50% more damage to all bolts.

-MDEF +10

-If upgraded to +7 Increases Spell Fist Damage by 25%.

-If upgraded to +9 ASPD +5.


**Set Bonus** Emblem of Elemental Control [0]


-Attack -20

-ASPD +5

-Adds a 1% chance to autocast [Spell Fist] Lv 1, or highest level learned, on the user when doing a physical attack.

-Refine level of the headgear increases this chance (1% per 2 refines)


25 Defense

10 Weight

Upper Only

Sorcerer Only

Requires Level 100

ASPD +10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and this spell fist cast, this is too OP.
DEF 25 !!! are you a swordman class?

Black Ribbon [1] def 10; Divine Guard Hat [1] def 10

Shrine Maiden Ribbon [1]


A ribbon once worn by a shrine maiden as she fought off hordes of demons and youkai. Wearing it demonstrates - and rewards - your resolve to follow the same path.


-Increases the damage of Magnus Exorcismus by 30%.

-Increases the damage of Magnus Exorcismus by an additional 5% for every 2 refines on the headgear.


-If upgraded to +7, there is a 5% chance of autocasting the learned level of heal when taking physical or magical damage.

-If upgraded to +9, reduces Magnus Exorcismus fixed cast time by 0.5 second.


**Set Bonus** Talisman of Protection [0]


-Reduces the after cast delay of Magnus Exorcismus by 1 second.

-Healing Effectiveness +5%


30 Defense

10 Weight

Upper Only

Archbishop Only

Requires Level 100

JUDEX, AUDORAMUS???????????????
Considering what you are doing there, it would be fair to add 100% more damage with Judex.

Maple Leaf of First Autumn [0]


-MSP + 5%.


-Reduces damage received from [Fire], [Earth], [Wind] and [Water] element attacks by 5%.


Class: Accessory

Defense: 5

Weight: 10

Required Level: 100

Jobs: Ranger Only

Ring of Sealed Shadow [0]


-MATK +5


-Reduces damage received from [Fire], [Earth], [Wind] and [Water] element attacks by 5%.


Class: Accessory

Defense: 5

Weight: 10

Required Level: 100

Jobs: Shadow Chaser Only

-SP +25


-Reduces damage received from [Fire], [Earth], [Wind] and [Water] element attacks by 5%.


Class: Accessory

Defense: 5

Weight: 10

Required Level: 100

Jobs: Rune Knight Only

It is clear that you prefer Warlock and Sorcerer. Review the complete sorcerer and magician set.
look at the sorcerer accessory, you are trying to fly to high.... compare it with other classes.

Either you Add skill to other accessory, or your remove those skills.
DOUBLE ATTACK LVL 5 + ARDENALINE RUSH + 10% more Damage with bolt....

All Magician gear should have lower def,
All Magician accessories should have lower def
You can add Mdef



Ascendant Crown [1]


A copy of the legendary artifact left behind by the greatest Super Novice to ever walk the earth. The real one has been lost

for ages, but this replica can imitate some of its awesome power.

-All Stats +10

-Max HP +15%

-Max SP +15%

-Attack +15%

-MATK +15%

-Hit +20

-Flee +20

-Crit +20

-Perfect Dodge +10

-Attack Speed +5

-Magic Defense +20

-Reduces Variable Cast Time by 20%

-Reduce 5% damage from Neutral Property


20 Defense

5 Weight

Upper Only

Super Novice Only

Requires level 100

this is not even godlike, it is GOD on tour.
All stat+ 10 + Hit+20 = HIT+ 33?
All stat+ 10 + Flee+20= Flee+ 33?
don't know...

Such an item should have def 0.


The suggestions are fine, but the insults are not. Thank you for the other constructive parts of this post.

Edited by VolunteerMod05, 18 October 2012 - 09:43 AM.

[Oda]

Or you could suggest other effects that you would think are more balanced. Quoting a post and going LOLLLLL!!!! isn't exactly peer review- the other people in the thread are actually having a discussion.

[asayuu]

Seriously... people complaining about an equipment having 25 defense? it makes no difference >.<

I want to do a proposal change on my proposal, but I don't know what to do.

Maybe a whip-only ranged boost, or trading the fixed cast time for SP cost decrease...

Edited by asayuu, 18 October 2012 - 09:07 AM.

[Moyton]

May bad, i am too Aggressive:

so i will explain myself:


DEF　Reduct　 w/Assumpt
20　　 3.2%　　　　6.3%　
if you have now +15 def on each part from your equip: you see it is quite something.
+ As i said before, Mage, Sorcerer cap should not have so much def:

Super novice Ascendant Crown [1]


All Stats +10 Has a chance to gvie All Stats +10 for 10 sec while doing physical damage , upgrade +10 add 3% more chance

-Max HP +15% +5%

-Max SP +15% +5%

-Attack +15%

-MATK +15%

-Hit +20 +10

-Flee +20 +10

-Crit +20 +10

-Perfect Dodge +10

-Attack Speed +0,5 for every upgrade

-Magic Defense +20

-Reduces Variable Cast Time by 20% Has a chance to reduce Variable Cast Time by 20% for 20 sec while doing magical damage
upgrade +10 add 5% chance

-Reduce 5% damage from Neutral Property


20 Defense

5 Weight

Upper Only

Super Novice Only

Requires level 100

Edited by Moyton, 18 October 2012 - 10:26 AM.

[Kadelia]

The super novice gear is excessive. I really don't like these gears because they will be used in WoE. A supernovice can be top-tier breaker with the set you have going because they'll be able to do 193 in mental strength and get a sizeable HP boost. I can see warlocks using the set you have for them in WoE too.

Also, some of the bonuses you are giving are absurd, like +5~10 ASPD. Gear selection should confer an advantage, not make or break your character. We've seen what this is like with the mora set for ranger. Any noob throws it on and thinks they are good. And the wiggle room for good player versus not so good is prettttty small since 90% of your damage is coming from easily obtainable gear with an absurd boost.

If this stuff is supposed to be PVM, I really think accessory+headgear was the wrong way to go. For example, if you want to make hindsight sage better, the best course of action is to put the buffs on a book weapon. If you want to make auto-attacking RKs better--- in PVM only-- a 2 handed sword with the buffs is in order, because using it means you're not using a vellum/glorious. needing a special wand would make the warlock set useless in WoE. I understand you could only get kRO to make hats... but I am wondering about the accessories? How'd you get them to agree to accessories? Did you even at this point? I think it'd make more sense if all the headgears combo'd with a specific type of weapon, so you can better ensure they are PVM gears, I think. And the bonuses shouldn't be so out of sight.

I'll give you an example.

What I'd like to see for hindsight sage:
A book+hat+accessory combo on par with RWC Knife. That Knife is badass. I was leveling with a hindsight sage this week with this knife and the only downside is daggers have way lower aspd than books. Hindishgt sage just needs a book similar to the RWC Dagger.
Suggested effect:
* Hat gives +5 matk for every refine, and an extra +10 matk at +7 and +9. That's 80 MATK at +12.
* Hat should give +10 flee because I noted hindsight sage has bad flee.
* Hat is slotted and has -15% variable cast time. Between this and the +MATK boost it should be comparable to skull cap and Crown of Deceit (a little weaker than CoD).
* Accessory does something like +3 AGI, +2% aspd, -5% all elements as you have going, and maybe +200 HP. When worn with a book weapon, aspd +5% more.
* if Accessory worn with the book and the hat, ATK/MATK +10 for every refine of the book (+120 atk/matk).
* Book has 160 MATK to be on par with principles of magic but has 120 ATK to be able to actually damage enemies with a lot of soft def, unlike a principles of magic. When +12 with accessory and hat it's 200 more matk than previously obtainable! very good. And 240 ATK, best sage has ever had.
* book gives, I don't know, +3 INT/DEX and +3% aspd. And when refined to +9 or higher, aspd+1. If +12 or higher, additional +1 aspd.
* all total the set gives sages 200 matk and 180 more atk than previously common, and +10% aspd and +2 aspd. +10 flee as well. 90 agi with a backpack should be like 188 aspd without any priests buffs or w/e. This is all assuming someone works hard and maximizes the features of the set.

This would be clearly a PVM set of gear and not unbalanced at all. And there would be a difference between novice players and veteran players with resources in terms of how well the set performs. Which IMO is a plus.

Edited by Jaye, 18 October 2012 - 03:56 PM.

[asayuu]

I'd like a useful whip.

The mage hat could even give +15% cast time as a drawback instead of -15%, as you are supposed to interrupt your cast by using Spell Fist... And you only cast hindsight every 2 minutes.

[Kadelia]

Metallic sound is already pretty useful in pvm with sound amps (if we ever get them). Doing like 40-50k damage per metallic is pretty nice even with the 4 second delay. What exactly would you think needs buffing with the whips? reverb? I personally want to see more auto-attack wanderer stuff to enjoy the actual use of stuff like dance shoes and swing dance in pvm.

I'd do like,

whip - 180 atk 70 matk, lvl 4, if refined +7 or higher, aspd +5%, if refined +9 or higher, aspd +5% & chance to autocast reverberation lv 3 when melee attacking, if +12 or higher, reverb is lvl 5
hat - ranged damage +12%, if +7 or higher, when attacking there is a chance to have Odin's Power lvl 2 cast on you, if +9 or higher and with a whip class weapon, aspd +1, if +12 or higher, there is a 1% chance to drain 5% of damage dealt as HP/SP.
accessory - int +3, dex +3, reduce damage from all element by 5%, matk +10, if worn with hat&whip, every refine of the weapon adds +10 atk/matk.

That should e both the best reverb setup in the game now and the best auto-attack setup and isn't overpowered IMO. This would also be an ideal gear set for arrow vulcan (if that mattered). Hat by itself is best Severe Rainstorm damage hat. As before, lots of refining incentives.

Edited by Jaye, 18 October 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[michaeleeli]

I like the current sorcerer hat, hindsight sage leveling is super fun, but only if you get a good book weapon to use - daggers you don't get the extra aspd, but if its good enough such as the GWC dagger, it's also fun to use it >< And with this hat that gives a total of +10aspd, I can focus on int/dex/vit so I can pvm nicely hind-sight style and even focus on more defence for mvp. Without the +10aspd, an investment in 80+agi is a drawback since most lower-geared players cannot invest much in defensive equips, and that will sacrafice either vit for hp (melee so need hp), int for matk, or str/dex? for atk/hit. Hit is not needed for hindsight activation but it is nice if we can get hit so players may even increase ATK to add that portion to damage, and start using tablets. It's more considerable thinking about players who are not well geared enough. And I do agree with jaye's weapon conception - solves alot of problems, but then the drawback is there is less "alternatives" to level with if it's the point of it. For example a hindsight sage might want to level with the new hat with a wand...if they want =p. Or super novices can use any weapon for their choice of hat, since they can use any of them.

Anyways, I'm mostly here to suggest the change of the Shadow Chaser hat - change the "When base int = 120, adds 50 matk" effect. I'm pretty sure all the people on this thread has agreed that there are probably no shadow chaser that goes base 120 int - I understand the hats are used for "alternative" leveling, but 120 base int isn't an alternative to any kind of SC build. The best thing for chaser leveling would be an all-rounder like the backpack effect - if agi > 90, then +1 aspd, if int >90, +20 matk or so. The other effects are superb though. For alternative leveling from arrow storm, the hat should increase stats closer for matk, aspd, and atk, so they can spam atk-based melee skills or auto-spell. Even more, a heal effect could be nice, for example adding a life-steal effect, since SC don't deal massive atk, it shouldn't be far too OP and it would provide sustainability to leveling chasers if they do not use rudolf hat.

Edited by michaeleeli, 19 October 2012 - 12:17 AM.