500 replies to this topic

[Kadelia]

Here is a more creative revision of my above proposal that doesn't require new weapons from kRO. I'll use the wanderer set as an example.

Stated goals: Set is balanced, confers a lot of great benefits to 3 types of wanderer (SR, Reverb, auto-attacker) without being over-the-top. Set has multiple levels of power to unlock, starting with just having the headgear and an npc whip, all the way up to a +12 hat and +12 carrot whip. Required weapons and hat are not PVP/WoE/MVP friendly so this set is unlikely to be used there. Set makes rare monster drops like whip[2] something meaningful instead of sad. Odin's Power ensures that a huge chunk of the atk/matk bonus absolutely requires the auto-attack build.

Night Sparrow Hat [1]
Ranged Damage +12%, Flee +10, MDEF +5.
if refined +7 or higher, there is a 1% chance to cast [Odin's Power] lvl 2 on yourself while performing a close-range physical attack.
If refined +9 or higher and equipped with a whip-class weapon, aspd +1 and chance of [Odin's Power] increases to 3%.
If refined +12 or higher, there is a 1% chance to drain 5% of damage dealt as HP/SP.

[If worn with Whip [1]]
ATK +10, MATK +35

[If worn with Whip [2]]
ATK+ 25, MATK +85

[If worn with Carrot Whip]
MATK +130, Aspd +5%.

[If worn with one of the above whips]
If weapon is refined +7 or higher, aspd +5%.
if weapon is refined +9 or higher, adds a 4% chance to auto-cast reverberation lv 3 when performing a close-range physical attack,
if weapon is refined +12 or higher, the chance to auto-cast reverberation becomes 8% and [Reverberation] Level 5 is used.

Defense: 12
Required Job: Dancer
Required Level: 55
Weight: 20

Seal of Night Bird Chorus
INT +3, DEX +3, MDEF + 5.
Increases ranged damage by 3%.
Reduces damage received from [Fire], [Earth], [Wind] and [Water] element attacks by 5%.

[If worn with Night Sparrow Hat + Carrot Whip or Whip[0] or Whip[1]]
Each refine of the weapon increases ATK/MATK by 10.

Defense: 1
Required Job: Dancer
Required Level: 55
Weight: 10

Second example, Sage gear:

Stated goals: Set is balanced, confers a lot of great benefits to sage in general with the extra matk but helps hindsight sages a lot without being over-the-top. Set has multiple levels of power to unlock, starting with just having the headgear and the book you get at jobchange, all the way up to a +12 hat and +12 Principles of Magic. Required weapons and hat are not PVP/WoE/MVP friendly so this set is unlikely to be used there. Set makes rare monster drops like Tablet [1] something meaningful instead of sad. Odin's Power ensures that a huge chunk of the atk/matk bonus absolutely requires the auto-attack (hindsight) build.

Magician Night Cap [1]
Flee +10, MDEF +5.
if refined +5 or higher, ATK/MATK +5 for every unsafe refine.
If refined +7 or higher, and worn with a book-class weapon, MATK +10 & variable cast time -5%.
If refined +9 or higher, and worn with a book-class weapon, additional MATK +10 & variable cast time -10%.

[If worn with Book [3]]
ATK + 25, MATK +50.

[If worn with Tablet [1]]
MATK +85.

[If worn with Principles of Magic [2]]
ATK + 70, MATK +20, ASPD +3%.

[If worn with one of the above weapons]
if weapon is refined +9 or higher, ASPD +1.
if weapon is refined +12 or higher, additional ASPD +1.

Defense: 12
Required Job: Sage
Required Level: 55
Weight: 20

Emblem of Elemental Control
HP +200.
Increases the damage of [Cold Bolt], [Fie Bolt], [Lightning Bolt], and [Earth Spike] by 15%.
Reduces damage received from [Fire], [Earth], [Wind] and [Water] element attacks by 5%.

[If worn with Magician Night Cap + Book [3] or Tablet [1] or Principles of Magic [2]]
ASPD +2%.
Adds a 2% chance when performing a close-range physical attack to automatically cast [Odin's Power] Level 2.
For every refine of the weapon, ATK/MATK + 10.

Defense: 1
Required Job: Sage
Required Level: 55
Weight: 10

Other Notes

I would probably do a similar set for Shadow Chasers, with lots of atk/matk and odin's power, to ensure the shadow-spell build had fun. It'd also have a +15% ranged damage just like the wanderer set, for people copying Arrow Storm.

I am not sure why the gears were limited to 3rd job before. Leveling a hindsight sage sucks. The MATK boosts benefit you even as a spell fist sorc. The reason spell fist sucks is the MATK is so low with a book that you can't even damage against the soft DEF of the enemies. This set benefits hindsight sage and spell fist sorc both. Dancers suck and don't get to enjoy their whips much either. They need love as much as wanderers. The gears should be obtainable early on and you can work on them and develop their powers as you get higher level.

Edited by Jaye, 19 October 2012 - 05:57 AM.

[Kadelia]

The following set augments the white wing set with a bunch of crit if you're auto-attacking, augments trapping (in addition to +50% trap damage, there is +12 INT which is 60% added to the % mod of trap skills). All without the +ATK boosts you had going before which would have made auto-attack damage over the top a bit with an elven bow, and is unnecessary (ATK doesn't influence any trap damage at all if you check their formulas-- its all INT/DEX * trap level * research level etc). The CRIT is a better angle because it also makes auto-attacking fun and makes Focused Arrow Strike rock as a hunter.

Autumn Hairband [1]
Flee +12, MDEF +5, ranged damage +5%.
INT +2, for each level of [Trap Research] learned.
If refined +7 or higher, [Fire Trap], [Ice Trap], [Blast Mine], and [Claymore Trap] damage +10%.
If refined +9 or higher, Crit +10, ATK +20.
If refined +12 or higher, [Fire Trap], [Ice Trap], [Blast Mine], and [Claymore Trap] additional damage +20%.

[If worn with Hunter Bow or Hunter Bow [1]]
ATK +20, CRIT +7.

[If worn with Falken Blitz]
ATK +60, increases ranged damage by 30%.
Increases CRIT by +1 per refine of the weapon.

[If worn with above weapons]
Decreases variable and fixed cast time of [Focused Arrow Strike] by 5% per refine of the weapon.

Defense: 12
Required Job: Hunter
Required Level: 55
Weight: 20

Maple Leaf of First Autumn
INT +2, DEX +2, MDEF +5.
Increases ranged damage by 3%.
Reduces damage received from [Fire], [Earth], [Wind] and [Water] element attacks by 5%.

[If worn with Autumn Hairband + Hunter Bow or Hunter Bow [1] or Falken Blitz]
Crit +8.
Decrease variable and fixed cast time of all skills by 20%.
I ncreases the damage of [Fire Trap], [Ice Trap], [Blast Mine], and [Claymore Trap] by 20%.

Defense: 1
Required Job: Hunter
Required Level: 55
Weight: 10

Edited by Jaye, 19 October 2012 - 06:38 AM.

[asayuu]

Problem is, dropping this to second / trans classes mess up the project for the 5th time.

Also, specific weapons suck. Every mage class (and even priests) who want MATK have to discard all their attack gear to use (over10) TSOD + Skull Cap.

Okay, it gives value to an weapon, but makes all the others useless. Who uses staff of destruction? Or mental stick?

This is the point of not limiting the weapons.

[By the way, your combo with Falken Blitz is pretty much the same as Little Feather Hat]

The optimized way to combo would be having a non-slotted middle headgear. Would not ruin accessory chains (Amplifiers for performers, Clip + Spiritual Ring for priests, and so on) and would be a lesser used option for woe (losing their maya purples for extra damage/maneuverability?)

The problem on making it a second headgear is requiring a new graphic.

And no +12 effects on this project. Leave that refine level to another one.

Edited by asayuu, 19 October 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[Inubashiri]

I'm not making significant changes to anything EXCEPT preview 3, read the OP. The only exception to that is the wanderer/maestro ones in which I let asayuu handle. The reason for this is because I don't want to be in an endless loop of scope creep trying to get this done. And absolutely no to the weapon option and that is final, for one I am pretty sure I'm at the limit of what can be requested if not past it and two because I'm not going to limit people's choices on their weapons. As for them being used in WoE, trust me we have ways to make sure that won't happen. Right now I'm more concerned with getting the long ass quests done over doing this as they will take more time than this to be implemented. We only are about 60% thru those.

Edited by Inubashiri, 19 October 2012 - 09:28 AM.

[Kadelia]

That is disappointing. You should lock this thread, then.

[Oda]

Discussing tweaks is one thing, but radical revisions to the mechanics of the headgears would be best served on a separate project.

[michaeleeli]

*Cough*...but for so long we never had an opinion-rally on the chaser hat int = 120 thing. Could you tell us at least what you think about it?
I do understand if it's just because it's so busy making all the quests and changing the hats >< But it seems like there is no word coming from taking opinions on the SC hat compared to any other hats ><
It would just be a huge relief if we know the SC hat isn't final on it =3

Edited by michaeleeli, 19 October 2012 - 01:49 PM.

[asayuu]

Personally, "only" 50 MATK by having 120 int sounds low.

Also, now with WOE supplier, genetic hat is pointless, as it is an "item dropper" hat. Once I made a "cart skill" booster proposal... I don't know where the post is right now.

Found it~

• Harvester Hat [1]

A good-luck hat worn by farmers to make sure they collect an exceptionally good harvest. Some say it was blessed by the Harvest Goddess herself.

- Increases Cart Tornado damage in 10%;

- Adds a chance to drop Explosive Mushroom Spore when killing monsters. (5%)

- If upgraded to +7 or higher, increases the damage of the Cart Tornado and Cart Cannon skills in 1% for every level learned of Pushcart skill.

- If upgraded to +9 or higher, increases the damage of the Cart Tornado and Spore Explosion skills in 3% for every level learned of Potion Research (or Vending, the hardest to "learn") skill.

**Set Bonus** Signet of Harvest Moon [0]

- Adds an additional chance to drop Explosive Mushroom Spore when killing monsters. (+5%)

-Increase the damage of Cart Tornado and Spore Explosion skills by 25%.

-Increases ATK by 5 for every refine level on the headgear.

Defense 15

Weight 20

Upper Only

Geneticist Only

Requires Level 100

Edited by asayuu, 19 October 2012 - 02:48 PM.

[Inubashiri]

*Cough*...but for so long we never had an opinion-rally on the chaser hat int = 120 thing. Could you tell us at least what you think about it?
I do understand if it's just because it's so busy making all the quests and changing the hats >< But it seems like there is no word coming from taking opinions on the SC hat compared to any other hats ><
It would just be a huge relief if we know the SC hat isn't final on it =3

Preview 3 is still up for discussion >_>

None of 3 has changed mainly because I been busy with other projects and such along with real life. I'm simply saying I want the scope on 3 only, the other 2 are locked in except what I said about the wanderer/maestro which was to basically accommodate certain people...

[Ramen]

I'm wondering if we couldn't add a couple things to the Inconspicuous Hat. Right now, it is pretty much only useful to Shadow Spell build Chasers. I'm wondering if we couldn't do something like...

If +7 Increases Fatal Menace damage by 50%
If +9 Increases Fatal Menace damage an additional 50% and adds HIT +10 if Fatal Menace is mastered.

If +7 Increases Feint Bomb damage by 50%
If +9 Increases Feint Bomb damage by an additional 50%

If +7 Increases Triangle Shot damage by 100%
If +9 Removes the variable cast time of Triangle Shot

I'd like to look more at these ideas. Does anyone have any suggestions about this? I'd love to at least test the skills as they are now, since I feel that would really help in making better recommendations for buffs, but I don't know how to go about testing.

Edited by Ramen, 20 October 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[xFireize]

A rant

Spoiler

I have lost my interest on this project. This is just gonna be another "If you don't wanna suck, you gotta wear this and that". Just like WoE sets and CEB/POM headgear for WoE. The effects are way beyond other equipments that you don't want to wear other equipments anymore.

Seriously, these hats effects are so significant they clearly show a particular build of a class is broken. Why don't they fix the classes instead and make some simple fun headgears on top of that? Look at what Ramen wrote as an example. He's asking buffs for those skills because right now they are so dumb.

Imagine if the project was executed, then in the future kRO realized that the person who designed the SC skills and skill tree was dumb and decided to actually balance the class to make it competitive in PvM; what would happen to these hats?

Or what would happen when kRO realized they'd need to make Mora equipments for 2-2 classes?

Edited by xFireize, 20 October 2012 - 04:20 PM.

[Kadelia]

I agree with the first part of your rant. A lot of these headgears will be to some classes what the mora set is to rangers... the bonuses are just too big.

Edited by Jaye, 20 October 2012 - 03:26 PM.

[asayuu]

When the class is easy to level, the hat is supposed to give an booster to an alternative (for fun?) build, which people may explore or not. (Trap Rangers, Spellfist Sorcerers, ME priests and such)

When the class is hard to level, it's a big question. What to do? Explore the most common build (Like Chasers+ASS or Performer+Severe Rainstorm), or create an alternative?

This is a big question for all the hats, now they are being worked on. The ones subject to change may change, the others are pretty much done.

[This is also an answer for a couple PMs I got] Good idea or bad idea, it's better than nothing. Most important right now is to step up and propose something. There is the staff to evaluate everything. Staff's decision is final, and if they support the project, nothing can be done to prevent it, so no drama should be spread around here.

I'm wondering if we couldn't add a couple things to the Inconspicuous Hat. Right now, it is pretty much only useful to Shadow Spell build Chasers. I'm wondering if we couldn't do something like...

If +7 Increases Fatal Menace damage by 50%
If +9 Increases Fatal Menace damage an additional 50% and adds HIT +10 if Fatal Menace is mastered.

If +7 Increases Feint Bomb damage by 50%
If +9 Increases Feint Bomb damage by an additional 50%

If +7 Increases Triangle Shot damage by 100%
If +9 Removes the variable cast time of Triangle Shot

I'd like to look more at these ideas. Does anyone have any suggestions about this? I'd love to at least test the skills as they are now, since I feel that would really help in making better recommendations for buffs, but I don't know how to go about testing.

Feint Bomb... pointless. But Fatal Menace and Triangle Shot are another story, and could be a good option. I like the idea of making Triangle Shot better... I don't can say for sure if +100% damage is alright, because of a couple stuff.

Maybe +50% ranged damage and +50% Triangle Shot power, to make happy all the arrow storm bow chasers.

Spoiler

But Feint Bomb... This skill IS problematic. The formula is:

Damage: ATK [(Skill Level + 1) x (Caster’s DEX / 2) x (Caster’s Job Level / 10) x Caster’s Base Level / 120)] %

Sucks how the formula is A x B x C x D. We'd need to readjust Feint Bomb to job 50 before any buff.

To adjust feint bomb, SEVERE unbalanced stuff would appear.

A job 10 Chaser would require +400 dex to make the formula hit, with a 100 base dex chaser reach 1250% ATK, the base of a job 50.
On job 20, +150 dex.
On job 30, +70 dex
On job 40, +25 dex
On job 50, nothing.

So yeah, I hate this formula. The big problem of this skill is. The maximum potential is at 150/50, where you don't need to level anymore.

I say kRO needs to fix this terrible formula before thinking on making Feint Bomb a decent PVM skill.

What I don't like of Fatal Menace is the "aoe monster flywing" feature. Combining with portal casting, this skill is crazy. Not strong because the mod is only 600%, worse than even Bowling Bash (one of the hits), but the skill is freaking spammable, even with half second delay. If it's 100% teleport if skill connects, it's very strong.

Imagine if the project was executed, then in the future kRO realized that the person who designed the SC skills and skill tree was dumb and decided to actually balance the class to make it competitive in PvM; what would happen to these hats?

Simple. iRO staff can edit "homebrew" equipment as much as they want. They can't edit equipments coming directly from kRO. So those hats can be edited anytime if needed.

Edited by asayuu, 20 October 2012 - 08:27 PM.

[Ramen]

When the class is easy to level, the hat is supposed to give an booster to an alternative (for fun?) build, which people may explore or not. (Trap Rangers, Spellfist Sorcerers, ME priests and such)

When the class is hard to level, it's a big question. What to do? Explore the most common build (Like Chasers+ASS or Performer+Severe Rainstorm), or create an alternative?

This is a big question for all the hats, now they are being worked on. The ones subject to change may change, the others are pretty much done.

[This is also an answer for a couple PMs I got] Good idea or bad idea, it's better than nothing. Most important right now is to step up and propose something. There is the staff to evaluate everything. Staff's decision is final, and if they support the project, nothing can be done to prevent it, so no drama should be spread around here.



Feint Bomb... pointless. But Fatal Menace and Triangle Shot are another story, and could be a good option. I like the idea of making Triangle Shot better... I don't can say for sure if +100% damage is alright, because of a couple stuff.

Maybe +50% ranged damage and +50% Triangle Shot power, to make happy all the arrow storm bow chasers.

Spoiler

But Feint Bomb... This skill IS problematic. The formula is:

Damage: ATK [(Skill Level + 1) x (Caster’s DEX / 2) x (Caster’s Job Level / 10) x Caster’s Base Level / 120)] %

Sucks how the formula is A x B x C x D. We'd need to readjust Feint Bomb to job 50 before any buff.

To adjust feint bomb, SEVERE unbalanced stuff would appear.

A job 10 Chaser would require +400 dex to make the formula hit, with a 100 base dex chaser reach 1250% ATK, the base of a job 50.
On job 20, +150 dex.
On job 30, +70 dex
On job 40, +25 dex
On job 50, nothing.

So yeah, I hate this formula. The big problem of this skill is. The maximum potential is at 150/50, where you don't need to level anymore.

I say kRO needs to fix this terrible formula before thinking on making Feint Bomb a decent PVM skill.

What I don't like of Fatal Menace is the "aoe monster flywing" feature. Combining with portal casting, this skill is crazy. Not strong because the mod is only 600%, worse than even Bowling Bash (one of the hits), but the skill is freaking spammable, even with half second delay. If it's 100% teleport if skill connects, it's very strong.

[/font][/color]

Simple. iRO staff can edit "homebrew" equipment as much as they want. They can't edit equipments coming directly from kRO. So those hats can be edited anytime if needed.

Yeah, sadly Feint Bomb formula is definitely a mess. They could have done a much better job. I wouldn't mind trying to come up with a few better formulas. As for Fatal Menace, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I don't know how you'd portal cast Fatal Menace because it's a targeted skill just like snatch is. The only difference is that Fatal Menace takes all monsters in a 3x3 area around the target monster. As for the damage, yeah, it's pretty pathetic. I also imagine it's problematic for leveling because the monsters that get warped don't always land in the same spot in relation to your character that they were before the warp. If they wanted to make the skill useful, it should have been a self centered ground targeted AoE that hits every cell immediatly adjacent and diagonal to the caster.

[Kadelia]

Simple. iRO staff can edit "homebrew" equipment as much as they want. They can't edit equipments coming directly from kRO. So those hats can be edited anytime if needed.

Inu is refusing to edit their scripts before they are even released, why would this be even more likely when they are released and people will be up in arms about having something they worked for nerfed?

[asayuu]

Yeah, sadly Feint Bomb formula is definitely a mess. They could have done a much better job. I wouldn't mind trying to come up with a few better formulas. As for Fatal Menace, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I don't know how you'd portal cast Fatal Menace because it's a targeted skill just like snatch is. The only difference is that Fatal Menace takes all monsters in a 3x3 area around the target monster. As for the damage, yeah, it's pretty pathetic. I also imagine it's problematic for leveling because the monsters that get warped don't always land in the same spot in relation to your character that they were before the warp. If they wanted to make the skill useful, it should have been a self centered ground targeted AoE that hits every cell immediatly adjacent and diagonal to the caster.

Aka avaiable to portal casting as I stated. Thought the skill already worked this way. But yeah. A skill with 600% attack mod being the main skill of the class... sucks. That's why they get Arrow Storm. Without any mod, it's 1800%, three times what ANY chaser can do with their "natural" skills. And this is what is sad about a chaser. To make any of the natural skills of a chaser worth it, they need huge buffs.

Shadow Spell is the easiest to buff because of that.

Inu is refusing to edit their scripts before they are even released, why would this be even more likely when they are released and people will be up in arms about having something they worked for nerfed?

Because Oda/Heim would be the ones editing.

[michaeleeli]

Triangle shot IS a very interesting skill to buff up...However I still want to see some aoe skills to be buffed, as I can't really imagine SC's killing monsters with triangle shot one by one at lv135+, esp if they don't get a large sp pool.
ASPD has allllways been a problem with SC, as equipping a shield just makes your aspd/dmg even more crap, or you die super easily when mobbing with ASS build. So that is an important thing to add.
Something uber nice would be "damage +25% when equipped with elemental bows" so SC's can actually have an option on choosing bows vs monsters instead of only going for OAB's.

[Kadelia]

There is a bow for triangle shot that if upgraded to +11 or higher is about similar damage to an orc archer bow... the advantage being you can swap arrows on the fly. Its still not that great though, since the damage isn't even that great with orc archer+endow. Like 10k damage or so if you've got good stats for it. Considering its single target and you can cast it about 3 times in the time you can arrow storm, you'd think it'd cost less SP or do more damage... but nope. 3 triangle shot is more SP than 1 arrow storm (even with 2x sp penalty of reproduce). That special bow reduces SP cost of triangle shot, but I am not sure by how much. Triangle Shot needs like a +60% mod from the accessory set if it's going to do like 1.5x the DPS of arrow storm.

[michaeleeli]

OH what about the hat can increase any skill copied from reproduce by 50%, and add in exceptions like AS coz that's not what we really want as an 'alternative'...so people can actually go leveling and play with ignition break, sr, sonic wave, etc lols

[Kadelia]

OH what about the hat can increase any skill copied from reproduce by 50%, and add in exceptions like AS coz that's not what we really want as an 'alternative'...so people can actually go leveling and play with ignition break, sr, sonic wave, etc lols

I suggested that for a gear in the suggestion forum before, but I am going to assume that oda/inu/whoever cannot code such a gear since there is no precedent for it.

[asayuu]

The problem on buffing "reproduced skills" is. You pretty much need to buff "all skills".

Something like "50% on all melee damage if using a dagger or sword or axe", then "50% on all ranged damage if using a bow", and "50% magic damage when wearing any weapon with MATK"

[michaeleeli]

bumpbumpbump weekly reminder of changing the SC hat XD
some good ideas have been thrown at the Base Int = 120 so is there a general idea of where it's going at now XD?

[michaeleeli]

Sooo whats the update on the hats >.< Although I'm more excited to see the ninja update, can we see the hat quests coming in form in ~1-2months?

[xFireize]

Well this thread was moved to the trash bin (Proposals and Suggestions).

[Kadelia]

The problem on buffing "reproduced skills" is. You pretty much need to buff "all skills".

Something like "50% on all melee damage if using a dagger or sword or axe", then "50% on all ranged damage if using a bow", and "50% magic damage when wearing any weapon with MATK"

Why not just code it to say buff all skills chaser doesn't have but can reproduce? It's a long list I know, but it could be done couldn't it?

if (class === chaser) {
if (skill === "Arrow Storm") { Skilldamage += 0.5 }
if (skill === "Severe Rainstorm") { Skilldamage += 0.5 }
}
etc

That way it will look like it's buffing reproduce.

Edited by Jaye, 03 December 2012 - 07:36 AM.