127 replies to this topic

[DeTahMonster]

The issue with the idea of selling +7 (for example) foods in the shop is the incredible difference in power between a +10 stat gain and a +7 stat gain for most stats. +7 foods would be fine for, say, int and vit, and fine for casters for dex, but it would do very strange things to physical damage dealer's character builds, as +7 is not enough to reach from one offensive breakpoint to the next.

I understand the desire to make the in game system for food useful, but I feel like not adding the regular foods to the Kafra Shop would be shooting yourselves in the feet, as it were, due to their high demand and low controversy.

Yep, the original +10 kafra-shop will generate more money.

There is two way I see that is good for this and make both kafra-shop and cook-food useful.

1. Keep +10 Kafra foods and make the cooking food stack with the kafra-food.

This will make the cooking food very valuable as it stacks with the kafra food and making a huge demand because if you want to be the strongest you will hunt for these.

2. Making Cooking-food ingredients much more simpler as my suggestions above.

I believe the main goal is to satisfy players while still generate sustained income from the kafra-food. Keeping the +10 foods as is good as it's always been there and have been a sustain source.

The only change should be made is with the cooking system/cooked food, not the kafra food.

[Hrishi]

1. Keep +10 Kafra foods and make the cooking food stack with the kafra-food.

This will make the cooking food very valuable as it stacks with the kafra food and making a huge demand because if you want to be the strongest you will hunt for these.

Don't be ridiculous. +20 to a single stat in pre-renewal mechanics would be stupidly broken. Did you even think this suggestion through?

[DeTahMonster]

Don't be ridiculous. +20 to a single stat in pre-renewal mechanics would be stupidly broken. Did you even think this suggestion through?

Yeah, so what? You could get +20 with battle chant.

The reason why it's ok is because cooking food is hard to get with the current system.

I see nothing broken with it as well.

Do you think 150 dex is uber or what? It's mediocre only. In WoE if you aren't quagging you are under-performing. Non-Woe you can pretty much get it's effect under strings already.

What is broken about it? Nothing really. It makes food worth getting.

Sometimes I wonder if I should give any ideas at all since highly likely GMs already have a system they want to use already anyways.

Edited by DeTahMonster, 01 August 2012 - 09:11 PM.

[Hrishi]

I wasn't thinking about DEX. Battle Chant is highly situational and can only be very in a very limited fashion, and the +20 stat buff is very random. It does not matter how difficult it is to get food, top guilds will be permanently fooded.

[DeTahMonster]

I wasn't thinking about DEX. Battle Chant is highly situational and can only be very in a very limited fashion, and the +20 stat buff is very random. It does not matter how difficult it is to get food, top guilds will be permanently fooded.

If you weren't thinking about DEX then how is it be broken? +10 extra STR/INT/VIT/LUK/AGI is not that much.

Please list why it's broken because I don't think it is.

Are you trying to balance things base on top guilds or best players? Top guilds are top for a reason. No matter what you do or change they are still a top guild. They are willing to invest either more time or money into the game.

The foods are available to everyone so that itself balanced it out.

Next time please reply on why it's broken instead of just saying it is because that is useless and I highly doubt it's broken anyhow.

Edited by DeTahMonster, 01 August 2012 - 10:49 PM.

[zr0rieu]

If you weren't thinking about DEX then how is it be broken? +10 extra STR/INT/VIT/LUK/AGI is not that much.

Please list why it's broken because I don't think it is.

Are you trying to balance things base on top guilds or best players? Top guilds are top for a reason. No matter what you do or change they are still a top guild. They are willing to invest either more time or money into the game.

Next time please reply on why it's broken instead of just saying it is because that is useless and I highly doubt it's broken anyhow.

Unlike renewal, in pre-renewal stats matter A LOT. I implore you to read the pre-renewal stat page and do some basic math to figure out the impact of +10 extra stats would have on top of EVERYTHING that's available in-game such as god items.

Edited by zr0rieu, 01 August 2012 - 10:53 PM.

[loveSummer]

+20 stat food is ridiculous, don't even try and stack the foods.

You've been living in renewal too long.

[DeTahMonster]

I barely played Renewal.

I completely understand the pre-newal stats system and still see that it's still fine.

The highest stats one could get is with 2x Megs. Lets say you have 240 STR with 2x Megs, lets see what +10 more str do. @ 250 str you gained 49 bonus attack and 10 more from str adding you 59 more ATK. 59 attack is great but nothing overpowered.

You could already do what you wanted @ 240 str compared to 250 which is great for PvM but does nothing in WoE.

Only STR can reach this level, all other stats cannot as well.

God items are powerful but they should be, stats/cooked food just add to this and does not make one powerful alone. RO game is solely base on synergy.

The major factor is this: everyone can get food/cooked item if they wanted too and by making cooked food stackable there will be a high demand and more usage of it.

Edited by DeTahMonster, 01 August 2012 - 11:30 PM.

[aldrich]

this forum never ceases to amaze me

every time I think I've read the dumbest post, I come back and read one dumber than the last

[StyxNL]

I wouldn't change too much regarding cooking. +7 available through Kafra is way too much, there are some recipies below +7 that make cooking worth it. +1,2,3 or +4 makes more sense.
Then some can build their char and round up the number with these.
Effect not fading after dead and make cooking sets more often available as drop sounds ok.
Making a better divide between the succesrates from the cooking kits is a very good idea.
Some recipies could be tweaked with other ingredients that are better available or do this in conjunction with modified spawns from monsters on certain maps.
I am thinking special here regarding some +5,6,7 and +8 ingredients that were actually harder to get then some +9 and +10.
+9 and +10 maybe change the hard ingredients as Illusion Flower and Four Leaf Clover.

Stats food should be rare to get by all means. I makes a lot of difference and certainly after trans.

[Xellie]

I barely played Renewal.

I completely understand the pre-newal stats system and still see that it's still fine.

The highest stats one could get is with 2x Megs. Lets say you have 240 STR with 2x Megs, lets see what +10 more str do. @ 250 str you gained 49 bonus attack and 10 more from str adding you 59 more ATK. 59 attack is great but nothing overpowered.

You could already do what you wanted @ 240 str compared to 250 which is great for PvM but does nothing in WoE.

Only STR can reach this level, all other stats cannot as well.

God items are powerful but they should be, stats/cooked food just add to this and does not make one powerful alone. RO game is solely base on synergy.

The major factor is this: everyone can get food/cooked item if they wanted too and by making cooked food stackable there will be a high demand and more usage of it.

You don't really get how op str was if you say that? As a pre-re sinx that had 2 belts, I'll tell you that hardly anyone survived my SB. (only asprika wearers) - with +20 food I wouldn't have just killed them, I would have deleted their char from the game.

Plus, a +20 stat fooded hw would be so sick. They could keep def gear and have instant cast and a terrible terrible stormgust with such a ridiculously high matk bonus...

[Sagarinha]

Don't be ridiculous. +20 to a single stat in pre-renewal mechanics would be stupidly broken. Did you even think this suggestion through?

+10 its already.

I never liked Food sellin on Kafra Shops, cause its something like "Wings +10 all stats" and its very OP

P2W.

[rodinn]

Food is still a big part of economy, and changing the recipes will only hurt some drops that used to be useless. If you put kafra foods, that level of food will be default to woe, so must be a low lvl one (5 or less).
The best solution would be to tuning down the amount required to ea. food, indirectly boosting the amount you get of a say item by that %.

Examples. ~50% reduction.

Current level 7 Int Dish.

White Herb x 5 +
Honey x 2 +
Hinalle Leaflet x 10 +
Royal Jelly x 4 +
[ellow Spice x 1

New level 7 int Dish.

White Herb x 2 +
Honey x 1 +
Hinalle Leaflet x 5 +
Royal Jelly x 2 +
Yellow Spice x 1

I guess it is easier to implement, doenst-_- the economy and we still have to work to get the best but way less them before.

[Zodiac89]

Tolrin: You just don't want to put any effort into obtaining stat foods. What Heim is saying is that there might be a compromise to make it possible to make the ingame system worthwhile using so that you can actually make them for reasonable prices and don't have to spend ages hunting materials to make them.

I agree with most things that have been mentioned in this thread, I'd like to see the following changes:

- Crafted stat foods not expiring on death or being dispellable, just like the kafra item stat foods
- Increase the duration from 20 minutes to 30 minutes
- Drastically increased success rate for crafting stat foods
- Cheaper recipes making it more viable to make affordable stat foods

Speaking about the recipes. I'd love to see the level 1, 2 and 3 stat foods being incredibly cheap, so they would be readily available to most players at a cheap price. I think a lot of us would be willing to pay something like a market price of 75000-100000z to get a 30 minute 10 point stat boost that doesn't expire on death, both for WoE and PvM.

If you're having a hard time changing the crafting success rate for stat foods I have two proposals that could help a bit:

1) Make an NPC that gives people a 1 minute +10 luk boost if they have a cookbook in their inventory, which would increase the success rate somewhat without being too horribly abuseable.

OR

2) Make an NPC that creates all the foods, so you don't have to use the hardcoded food crafting system and can change the rates yourself as needed.


Edit: Additional super cool idea: Edit many of the old quests(such as the Amatsu, Kunlun, Ayothaya, Louyang, Einbroch, Lighthalzen and Hugel ones) to give low level stat foods as rewards. It's a pretty cool and harmless way to increase the prevalence of stat foods in the game.

Edited by Zodiac89, 02 August 2012 - 05:20 AM.

[DeTahMonster]

You don't really get how op str was if you say that? As a pre-re sinx that had 2 belts, I'll tell you that hardly anyone survived my SB. (only asprika wearers) - with +20 food I wouldn't have just killed them, I would have deleted their char from the game.

Plus, a +20 stat fooded hw would be so sick. They could keep def gear and have instant cast and a terrible terrible stormgust with such a ridiculously high matk bonus...

It's not +20 extra, it's only +10 as in the past you should be using the +10 kafra food already. +10 from kafra food and +10 from cooked food will make +20. It's only a +10 increase from the past.

Can you tell me what class HW can kill as of now? even with the extra +10 stats there damage would not compete against sinx/champ for tanky char killing. When you want to kill a high hp/def char you bring out the champ/sinx/spam acid bomb which doesn't even require the +10 extra stats.

Anything that could be done would be done even without the extra +10 stats. The extra +10 stats only have more purpose in the PvM enviornment and not as much in WoE.

[Zodiac89]

It's not +20 extra, it's only +10 as in the past you should be using the +10 kafra food already. +10 from kafra food and +10 from cooked food will make +20. It's only a +10 increase from the past.

Can you tell me what class HW can kill as of now? even with the extra +10 stats there damage would not compete against sinx/champ for tanky char killing. When you want to kill a high hp/def char you bring out the champ/sinx/spam acid bomb which doesn't even require the +10 extra stats.

Anything that could be done would be done even without the extra +10 stats. The extra +10 stats only have more purpose in the PvM enviornment and not as much in WoE.

Just give up... +20 stats is a bad idea in pre-renewal. The reason why high wizards aren't supposed to be able to kill everyone is because it would be ridiculously overpowered if you could just drop a storm gust and see everyone on your screen not standing on an ME drop. High wizards aren't meant to be killers in WoE, they're meant to freeze people, make it difficult for people to advance and make it risky to switch to a GR armor, they're also used to spam ganbantein which is a pretty awesome skill if you ask me.

Learn your roles in WoE and don't expect to be able to dominate everyone on the best AoE class in the game.

[DeTahMonster]

Just give up... +20 stats is a bad idea in pre-renewal. The reason why high wizards aren't supposed to be able to kill everyone is because it would be ridiculously overpowered if you could just drop a storm gust and see everyone on your screen not standing on an ME drop. High wizards aren't meant to be killers in WoE, they're meant to freeze people, make it difficult for people to advance and make it risky to switch to a GR armor, they're also used to spam ganbantein which is a pretty awesome skill if you ask me.

Learn your roles in WoE and don't expect to be able to dominate everyone on the best AoE class in the game.

Yes, highly un-likely my idea would be implemented but I really see no reason for that.

Do you really think +10 more INT would let them WIPE everyone? I highly doubt it. Anyone they can kill they would of kill already even without the +10 extra INT.

[Machiavellian]

The highest stats one could get is with 2x Megs. Lets say you have 240 STR with 2x Megs, lets see what +10 more str do. @ 250 str you gained 49 bonus attack and 10 more from str adding you 59 more ATK. 59 attack is great but nothing overpowered.

59 more ATK, really? I can't tell if you're trolling or being serious. The last time I checked, the formula for calculated ATK from STR (or DEX if you're using a ranged weapon) in Pre-Renewal was

STR + FLOOR(STR / 10) ^ 2

At 250 total STR, your ATK from STR alone would be 875.


To keep this on topic, I vote against stacking cooked and Kafra food. On a lighter note, I do like the idea of low level food rewards from quests.

[DeTahMonster]

59 more ATK, really? I can't tell if you're trolling or being serious. The last time I checked, the formula for calculated ATK from STR (or DEX if you're using a ranged weapon) in Pre-Renewal was

STR + FLOOR(STR / 10) ^ 2

At 250 total STR, your ATK from STR alone would be 875.


To keep this on topic, I vote against stacking cooked and Kafra food. On a lighter note, I do like the idea of low level food rewards from quests.

I think you should either read more carefully or research better.

@240 STR = 816 TOTAL ATTACK
@250 STR = 875 TOTAL ATTACK

59 total increase.

[Xellie]

I will make an instant cast champ.

ok.

[Jaffer]

Can you tell me what class HW can kill as of now? even with the extra +10 stats there damage would not compete against sinx/champ for tanky char killing. When you want to kill a high hp/def char you bring out the champ/sinx/spam acid bomb which doesn't even require the +10 extra stats.

Have you ever been hit by a 160 int amped mindbroken Stormgust or Meteor Storm? If you had 3 or 4 High Wizards stacked in your guild, 149 or 150 DEX MS at 180+ ASPD (a very easily attainable goal) throwing out meteors that hit for 5k per, with 50% demi and 27% elemental reduction, or SG that comes in at just over 11k DPS. Even without amp, the sheer number of meteors will first cell anyone lacking a GTB or insane mdef stack (which will get them killed by literally anything else in one or two hits).

[DeTahMonster]

Have you ever been hit by a 160 int amped mindbroken Stormgust or Meteor Storm? If you had 3 or 4 High Wizards stacked in your guild, 149 or 150 DEX MS at 180+ ASPD (a very easily attainable goal) throwing out meteors that hit for 5k per, with 50% demi and 27% elemental reduction, or SG that comes in at just over 11k DPS. Even without amp, the sheer number of meteors will first cell anyone lacking a GTB or insane mdef stack (which will get them killed by literally anything else in one or two hits).

Please read my posts more carefully.

What would change in that situation even with 10 more INT? not much. Anyone that can survive that would of survive it and if can't would of died.

[Xellie]

WOULD HAVE DIED.

And it actually makes a big diff when hitting an upper matk bonus. Plus it allows the wiz to use def gear.... there's the balancing factor being removed.

[CocaCola]

Please read my posts more carefully.

What would change in that situation even with 10 more INT? not much. Anyone that can survive that would of survive it and if can't would of died.

Please just stop. Everyone except you can see that the +10 extra stats is broken

[TooLowForZero]

- Crafted stat foods not expiring on death or being dispellable, just like the kafra item stat foods
- Increase the duration from 20 minutes to 30 minutes