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Closed: Info on Merger and God Item update.


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#1 Heimdallr

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:12 AM

It has been awhile since we made a post about the state of the game, and where it is going I want to take a bit of time to clear this up.

We do have 2 server types now, and both have their own unique challenges and opportunities so I'll try to address them both.

The Challenge List:
  • Renewal : Ymir declining population.
    It was expected that some lowering of numbers would happen as this population came primarily from the "olden" days and would likely be attracted to our new Classic Server. I wish it were not so drastic a decline however, but it's numbers really haven't been all that healthy since its inception compared to what it's potential characters that exist are.
    Other factors: WoE scene is stagnant, many godly items and wealth make a group very difficult to overcome for all but the "oldest" and most powerful guilds. I don't really have an answer to this other than to A take away their toys, and hope that equalizes (I don't think that would work), or B cut down on castle numbers so that more action does get done on those WoE days. WoE gets frustrating it seems when there is no action (boredom), cheating or when it is so lopsided that it is pointless to continue. I'm sure that Ymir has a bit of all this contributing to its issues.
  • Renewal 1 hour timer bug
    We have been working with the development team since the bugs creation when Malaya was implemented. Never would I have thought it would take as long as it has to get a resolution. They have witnessed it happening on our live servers but not on their servers and are working to get this fixed in the next "build" we get.
  • Classic : Character server instability
    There are actually 2 issues happening that not everyone is aware of.
    1. the character server sometimes, randomly goes unresponsive, this makes it so you can't change zones or get in game, though you can login and get to character select. Our only solution to it is to restart the character select which quickly fixes it, but next time you change maps or go to character select you are disconnected. This makes sense as the character server does keep track of where you are and if it loses track of you it disconnects you.
    2. Since the 1st issue does not sound any alarms or anything other than us noticing that character select is down we implemented an automated process to constantly restart the server so that under no circumstances would the character server be down indefinitely. We were caught a few times in July where it was down for over an hour before we were able to restart it, this automation was to make sure that sort of thing didn't happen. But the big downside is that doing this causes you every 30 minutes or so to not be able to move maps or go to character select. The upside is you can log back in immediately.
    Outcome: Right now the automated process does cause game play problems, and I suspect it has contributed somewhat to the frustration of players, but we are waiting on a developmental fix for the issue of the character server going into "ignoring mode", before we stop the automated process.
  • Classic When is WoE starting?
    We had originally planned WoE 1 to start prior to our Einbroch update in August, but with the character select issue that isn't possible. I can only imaging the frustration that would happen when every 30 minutes you can't go into a castle without being DCed, it would likely make many give up playing faster than the current state of affairs.
    We are going to do a WoE test this Saturday September 15th on Classic just to make sure the system works, but the real WoE can't start until Character server is resolved. That issue is the highest priority we have right now as it directly contributes to gameplay problems.
  • Merger Talk : At the begining of Summer we planned to merge Yggdrasil into Ymir, to bolster both populations and to give us a better hardware set to work with on Classic. The overall population of the game really doesn't need 3+1 servers to house all the players, and it would be better to get a "fast launch server" + Classic + Renewal. The fast launch is for marketing, which then gets merged in with the renewal server regularly. Yggdrasil was intended to be that way, to go for a year then merge, but that detail was overlooked by many that started playing on Yggdrasil because that information was lost during a forum move and it wasn't as clearly stated as it should have been.
    End of summer is here and realistically merging "should" happen to keep current population in-game as well as to spice up the PVP life. There are issues, from a game balance standpoint merging Yggdrasil with other servers isn't a problem as their item distribution isn't going to negatively effect the other communities. But players on Yggdrasil certainly may not like such a move.
    Ymir has a density of god items that is absolutely unholy and is a critical problem. 8+ years of god item creation plus other merges and those items filtering down to a very focused group of players does create a power vacuum in any case if they are merged into another server. If that situation didn't exist the decision of how to merge would be very easy.
    What to do? One idea is to change how god items work after the merger, we are discussing the long term effects of that with HQ as it may be a change that other versions have to cope with down the road as well.
    By change I mean, change the recipes to be "easier" and change god items to character bound with the "old effects" and the item being permanent. Or player chooses to have a "temporary" god item that can be fully tradable and at full power. Doing this means that the surplus of god items would decline over time (likely take over a year) but would stabalize without taking away a guilds power. The trick to staying in power is to stay active in the guild to keep making the god items. From our standpoint making them temp/tradable for some and perm/bound solves issues of them filtering down to players over time, fixes RMT situations and allows a better control and activity levels in-game.
    I'm laying this god item scenario out on the table just so you have an idea of what we are considering. It is NOT final, in fact it may be impossible to implement without approval (this is one of those big deal situations) and the merger talk is also not final as we have a lot of requirements that have to met before we can do a merger such as character slot limitation and name conflicts; we don't want extra accounts made, nor does the GM team have the time to do name changes manually as it is slow for the player and a huge sink of time for us.
I do intend on having a guild leader pow wow soon on Ymir as they are the ones that are going to have the biggest adjustment in any case if a merger does happen. Before any such merger happens we are going to open ymir up to non-VIP(can make charactes without VIP) and try to stir the community pot to come back and play there. Yes I'm sure some bots will get in, and they will get investigated appropriately, but for the playes taking the effort to get more in, is necessary.

A silver lining or 2 for when a merger happens, more players to play with, and better ability for us to saturate the server with GM presence to keep the game play as close to ideal as possible. Of course having the ability to handpick the best hardware also will help. All the servers are above RO specification, but there is some servers that are not the "most optimal" and getting more of those to where you are playing on them will only improve your game play.

From the final post:

We've been working on the merger plans since April, not because we knew it was going to happen but we knew it was a strong possibility. The solution is being developed right now, and likely won't be ready for us to use it until very Late october or more likely early in November. It will be Ygg merging into Ymir, we do it this way because the amount of data 'collisions" will be less doing it that way thus a cleaner merge. From the player point of view it will be your characters are now on that "new server" which will be named "Ymir" because change is confusing.

Now the God item discussion: Yes it is a touchy subject, and any change will undoubtedly make someone unhappy, just as doing no change will cause a very real issue in the long run (multi-year from now) due to quantity. This is what is happening with the WoE 1 items. (WoE 2 items are unchanged you can trade and do stuff with them to your hearts content).


1. God items will get bound up to the named owners account during the merge.
2. The items will be full powered and account bound.
3. If the owner wants to make it tradable an NPC will allow that:
- NPC will eat the perm item, give you a box (and a quest timer)
- Box contains a 6 month, full powered god item
- When 6 month expires both the item and your quest timer will be expired
- NPC will allow you to get another 6 month box. NPC will do this 4 times total: for 2 years worth of that god item.

4. NPC tracks the timer by character, so you will need to use multiple characters to have multiples of same god item in tradable form. You can have 1 each going in the quest timer though per character.
5. If you (account) has more than 9 of Same god item you could either opt to use it after the 2 years to keep it going longer. Or the GM team may allow you to move it to another account on your WP.

6. GM team will no longer readily intervene for God item moving and investigating. It is going to be back in the players hands as it used to be. The rubber banding will in essence be that 6 month timer expiring.
7. Special cases such as you have too many items under that account to use them all are the only intended cases of GM movement of them.


This seemed the best balance to allow longer term usage of the god items, while lessening the amount of RMT, and GM requests for item movement. It also serves the game purpose of rewarding continued play and activity by guilds to keep god items in their play, instead of accumulation by old guildies it becomes a "your current guilds" project to keep up with the god item scene.

The god item creation was originally intended to update as well, but that change is more than kRO is willing to bite off right now, and it is something that would have reaching effects to all ROs not just us because of examples we set.

IF this fails there is nothing stopping us from undoing it, but I honestly don't feel that the current amount of God items is healthy, when compared with the number of characters playing. It will take time for it to correct itself, but it will correct itself and we should have a more active WoE scene where the powerful are the ones playing rather than the ones that had elite acquaintences in the past. It was asked about how many WoE 1 god items were on Ymir: I don't have a "now" number but I did that pull last year: There are 208 MADE WoE 1 items, with more than 200+ worth of pieces still floating around. Some of those may be dead accounts or a GM here and there, but the vast majority (then) are in player hands and active.


I'm updating this info to the first post for clarity. Your feedback while brusque at times was appreciated and did allow fine tuning of this change to better handle your needs.
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#2 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:20 AM

About god items being account bound. What would be the point of making them after the guild leader has them? Can't quite understand what you are saying about them. Would this mean jsut not tradeable but still possible to get them transfered to other players? Sounds like a horrid idea. Guilds lend them out during woe. Most of their members can't afford to buy them and I don't think they would trust giving it permanantly away via name change for free. Aslo messes with guilds Endless Tower runs.
Edit: Also, is there any update on how Hazy Forest fix is going? Ticket responses have been something like "We are aware of the issue and are attempting to fix it" It's been like that for a few months and is finaly getting that response. Should we expect a fix for this in the next say, 2-3 weeks?

Edited by KriticalAssassin, 10 September 2012 - 11:22 AM.

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#3 Alicesaurus

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:22 AM

Will Ygg players still be given the option to transfer to the Valkyrie server like was planned last time?

Also like to say the new fort system seems to be affecting god drops so badly that making a 1.0 should take a good year and a half or closer to two years at the rate things are dropping. Making New God items is not that easy anymore, the problem is more the Long term build up of Ymir's multiple merges from multiple aged servers.

Ditto on the Hazy Forest being Broken since you installed the Mora update. This needs to be fixed as it serves as the main repeatable quest as well as the access quest. It's one of your most popular updates and it's not even doable for 3/4 of the week. The Bug gets ignored in the Tech Support section in the forum and tickets give a we are aware response. When are we getting a fix for this?

Edited by Alicesaurus, 10 September 2012 - 11:30 AM.

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#4 Kuropi

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:24 AM

About god items being account bound. What would be the point of making them after the guild leader has them? Can't quite understand what you are saying about them. Would this mean jsut not tradeable but still possible to get them transfered to other players? Sounds like a horrid idea. Guilds lend them out during woe. Most of their members can't afford to buy them and I don't think they would trust giving it permanantly away via name change for free. Aslo messes with guilds Endless Tower runs.

Are you going to be able to send in a ticket to have one of these god items given to somebody else? Just throw like, a 3 month cooldown on the server for each item, and that should solve a lot of issues. I don't agree with the characters bound garbage which is why I suggest this.

Will Ygg players still be given the option to transfer to the Valkyrie server like was planned last time?

LOL if they did that, valk would go up in population by like, 400 people, and ymir would go up maybe 100.
So,

you guys just let Cladestine Society move to Ygg to get away from all this crap, and now you're going to force them to go back? And D paid a lot of money for that, I'm sure.

This should be the other way around. God items are not the only issue here, and are actually the smaller one, I think. MVP cards are faaaaaaaarrrrrrrrr more of a problem. There are WAY too many GTB cards on ymir due to some abuse of ET that allowed certain people to rack up a number of them before it was fixed.

Ymir should be merged into Ygg, leaving all the god items and MVP cards behind. This would also affect/upset the least number of people, and would be much more fair to the FAR greater population of ygg server, without totally destroying everything it stands for.

Edited by Kuropi, 10 September 2012 - 11:30 AM.

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#5 Scientistic

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:27 AM

PK Projection Globally, not In-Worlding, should ease Mediation from Planet Yggdrasil, nothing less, but if not otherwise wi'll permit such riots to take it's course. Forgive me dearly. This how it has to be, but remember WHY PK Projection was requested by Regional Leadership, during the Planet Yggdrasil Summit. To Understand Yddgrasil's Request, read Planet Yggdrasil Independence embarrassed by the Creative Contraption section. Page 2, first Scientistic post, or read all to install a Planet's deeper understanding. That's all for now............

Edited by Scientistic, 10 September 2012 - 12:28 PM.

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#6 brothersfree

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:30 AM

Tthe problem here is Ymir is the cancer. IMO, problems on ymir should be fixed before they are in combine with yggdrasil or either valkyrie server.
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#7 Facekiller

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:49 AM

what about new content for renewal?
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#8 Xellie

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:59 AM

So would the god items be char bound -> turned into a tradeable rental -> Expire > return to owner? That is perfect.

I think Ymir could use a good return all items to original owners type deal, but I know that is beyond impossible because you have to check where the parts came from due to guild set ups.
The god item deal is going to be a concern even to those not completely active on Ymir, for example I play on there randomly but my items are spread across the guildmembers who worked for them.

In the mean time I believe Ymir god item creation should be suspended. It may be a large upset as it will prevent those other guilds from making and remove their WoE goal and I am aware of it, but there's no good that can come from farmed items.

Another thing worth noting is that the god items aren't as big of a deal as the MVP cards of Ymir.

Classic is only a small part of the reason people have left Ymir, I think it would be wise to do some private data collection on why Ymir is unappealing and try to bring life to it, because honestly I would not wish Ymir on any server. Those reasons are not something I can post in public.
A lot of it is to do with renewal and maybe renewal needs to be looked at critically itself too.

Edited by Xellie, 10 September 2012 - 12:01 PM.

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#9 Heimdallr

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:00 PM

The way we are thinking to change the god item is as follows.

God item is created, it is in a "Box" that box is tradable.
Once opened the god item inside is the old stats (non-renewal) and account bound. There is an NPC that can take that account bound permanent god item and make it a 6 month rental, that is at full stats and fully tradable.

We will NOT transfer the permanent item around as that is not the intention of the permanent one. Scamming for resale purposes should stop as the items being temporary will cut down on the "win" factor of that.

Renewal is what it is: we can suggest all the mechanic changes we want, but nothing will be quick or at all. Consider that the development team already has a "plan" and has more than 20 partners to listen to feedback it is not surprising that changes take forever to see the light of day. I don't think that big changes to Renewal mechanics is really going to happen, skill balances yes, new gear sure, but not changing how renewal is.
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#10 Xellie

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:02 PM

What of existing god items?

Those are the accumulation of years of work in some cases, it may be harsh to treat those the same as easier... newer made ones.

Edited by Xellie, 10 September 2012 - 12:03 PM.

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#11 Beata

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:12 PM

Heim,
What about the idea of disabling all (god items and mvp cards) in WoE realms and then have each unlock after meeting certain tasks in WoE? Would this be impossible to implement?

As for rental type god items, I am not really sure but I don't find it appealing since getting god pieces is harder than before. So it would take more than 6 months maybe a year to get full set of god pieces. So my guild would spend a longer time collecting pieces to enjoy a shorter time of the item's effect? That's not rewarding at all.
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#12 Alicesaurus

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:13 PM

What I find unfair is that Ymir has this problem and whoever Ymir has to be merged into has to take the same medicine despite the fact they dont have the Ymir disease. You should treat Ymir first before you merge it into a healthy server. Not the other way around.
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#13 Scientistic

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:14 PM

During this transaction of Planet Yggdrasil and Planet Ymir merging Proceedings, don't mock Planet Yggdrasil Elites if consciousness is interested in fire, rather than water. Meaningful reasons won't thread pleasantly, and vise versing.
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#14 SirDouglas

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:36 PM

Woe Set/Weapons > God Itens

The problem is the MvP/Mini Boss cards, Mjolnir and Megingjard.

Edited by SirDouglas, 10 September 2012 - 12:52 PM.

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#15 Tofu

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:52 PM

In the mean time I believe Ymir god item creation should be suspended. It may be a large upset as it will prevent those other guilds from making and remove their WoE goal and I am aware of it, but there's no good that can come from farmed items.


Not even a problem!

Like, 3 god items have dropped from all these months of "farming" like 80% of these castles. Not only that, no one has any motivation whatsoever to even make already existing sets, because they are most likely going to be broken down anyway.




And LOL @ old Sleipnir.

Edited by Tofu, 10 September 2012 - 12:56 PM.

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#16 Pres

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:53 PM

Ymir should be merged into Ygg, leaving all the god items and MVP cards behind. This would also affect/upset the least number of people, and would be much more fair to the FAR greater population of ygg server, without totally destroying everything it stands for.


Ygg's not the server that dying with the least amount of players. It does not sound logical to have to merge Yggdrasil with Valkyrie as that would just be merging two healthy servers. Yggdrasil has it's own community and is much more alive than Ymir. Many players prefer to leave it that way as it does have a small-knit community open for new players to start over, which is in essence, what makes the server friendly, unique, and frankly a lot better since it's not overly filled with god items and mvp cards. Free transfers, like normal transfers, with god item and mvp card restrictions, should be given to Ymir with a choice between Valkyrie and Yggdrasil. As long as players don't have to pay money and have the choice to transfer, it seems like a good option to have and keeps the servers alive and not completely ruined with overpowered cards and items.

By the way, when are you finding out the times for Classic woe and whether or not we will be getting supplies. It would be nice to know since if there's no supplies, I'd rather not have to log in for woe.
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#17 Xellie

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:55 PM

And LOL @ old Sleipnir.


Trust me, I'm already digging up my archives of "Buff Sleipnir" to explain why nobody wants a glorified 300 weight Variant shoe with some sp regen when AA card is viable.

I am prepared for this one.
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#18 Tofu

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:01 PM

At the current god item drop rates, it'd probably take like 5 years to get enough pieces for a single pair of lead variant shoes too.
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#19 twotails

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:11 PM

ok i see alot of good ideas here and the one about disaling them sounds neat but haveing them do somthing to unlock them will just wont work alot of ppl would just run and do what ever is need then ur back at the same thing what about if u just disable them ever other woe same with mvp cards im not a fan of the hole rental idea since the drop rate for the pices have seemed to drop by quit a bit so just make god iteams and mvp cards only useable ever other woe so then newer guilds still have a chance and guilds that have them can have some reall fun rembering what it was like befor they had them lets breing the chanlge of woe back
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#20 taskmidget

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:17 PM

The state of the game of Kafra Shop Online is that its declining and dieing. All this rideworld hats well chewed pencil IE lucky box bull crap with rentals of this and that and other crap to make it pay to win is dumb Warp portal is just milking this game till it dies and with the decline of clasic going down from its peak of 2.3k users on daily its kinda the GMs fault for implementing stupid pay to win items and not releasing everything at once because who the hell wants to wait 2 months for woe no one >.> GG Kafra Shop Online
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#21 Handersen

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:34 PM

merge all 3 renewal servers and make classic VIP only
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#22 Baturiano

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:41 PM

If you make them account bound however it's going to crush the hearts of many who plan to auction their gods for zenny or possibly another way of cashing it in. On the bright side and looking at the big picture I think its a great idea so no guild gets OP'ed if the gods are account bound.
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#23 Baturiano

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:42 PM

The state of the game of Kafra Shop Online is that its declining and dieing. All this rideworld hats well chewed pencil IE lucky box bull crap with rentals of this and that and other crap to make it pay to win is dumb Warp portal is just milking this game till it dies and with the decline of clasic going down from its peak of 2.3k users on daily its kinda the GMs fault for implementing stupid pay to win items and not releasing everything at once because who the hell wants to wait 2 months for woe no one >.> GG Kafra Shop Online


please don't post this we just wanna play the game if you don't want to play the game leave and don't sulk in the forums.
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#24 Tofu

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:46 PM

If you make them account bound however it's going to crush the hearts of many who plan to auction their gods for zenny or possibly another way of cashing it in. On the bright side and looking at the big picture I think its a great idea so no guild gets OP'ed if the gods are account bound.


The whole point of making them account bound is to prevent exactly that. Too many people are "cashing in" and sell off their god items, so naturally, they end up in the hands of the people with the most money.

If they become account, once the player quits, the god items are removed from circulation along with them, which is something that should have been happening from the start.
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#25 Baturiano

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:53 PM

The whole point of making them account bound is to prevent exactly that. Too many people are "cashing in" and sell off their god items, so naturally, they end up in the hands of the people with the most money.

If they become account, once the player quits, the god items are removed from circulation along with them, which is something that should have been happening from the start.


no arguments here. just throwing that thought out there for those players who actually do "cash in" these god items. Btw Heim did you freeze the trades now? because announcing this they might seperate the godlies right now to other "shared" accounts they also inherited from some old players.
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