380 replies to this topic

[GarYGarr]

Gosh ...

• Firstly I have nothing against a company making revenue, price increases and tactics to encourage customers to use the Item mall,
  HOWEVER these tactics should be carefully thought out in a manner that they should not harm the sole purpose of people playing this game TO START WITH!
  with the above mentioned statement said i think i am in a very deserving position to say the following points :
  
  .
• This so called " exp fix " is something that should have NOT been implemented because from the user's point of it looks as if no feasibility study has been taken, you cannot just decide to change something that at this point in time has generated so much interest from so much potential customers. I read this whole topic from the START and i saw there is one guy who says that he does not like MMO's at all but the structure of how our players leveled their characters was so warming to him that he decided to stay on rose... Listen up developers, the so called " BUGGED EXP SYSTEM " pulled in a customer for you, not the fix you have implemented, on the contrary this player now finds himself stuck at level 100 and an undesirable player as he does not have an AOE skill. So take a moment and think about what has happened, the action you took is ironic on an incomprehensible level, you are using this tactic to encourage players to buy x2 exp medals (allegedly anyway) or get premium accounts (which i specified i have no problem with and as a matter of fact until 2 days ago i was contemplating on getting a premium account as soon as my month end pay cheque came in (obviously this is not gonna happen anymore) ) which in turns does the exact opposite by pushing players away because now newbies will no longer get parties as they did from players with max chars and will find that it takes too long to level. As a rose online player i would NOT waste my time in adventure plains killing 200 jelly beans for 1 lousy level .
  
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• Thirdly i wonder when fixing this " bug " thing happened, was the math even thought of at all ? A low level party in Eldon with a cleric (HP and Buffs), mage (AoE) , knight (additional AoE and sacri skill) and any other class that would fill up the remaining slots in that party decided that they were going to try and level would roughly start off on 60-70k per kill, now since the disclosed amount is now being shared among party members (FULL PARTY) these people will now get approximately 10-12 k experience (per kill). They will continue getting this amount as the party level increases (which in fact may never reach party level 50) which does influence the amount of experience points the players acquire. This is all FACT, what goes without being noticed is that my Level 222 Mage needs roughly 188 Million experience points to advance to the next level. This is what leads me to question the consideration of a feasibility study on this because it seems as if the developers themselves don't know how many mobs a player would have to kill to reach 188 million exp. This becomes a horrible equation because the rate at what a player earns exp is so slow it kills the satisfaction of when this is actually accomplished. As i said before i am not willing to waste so many hours on my pc looking for a common goal with my party members that will cost us the whole day as if we don't have other things to do. Of course i could trash the whole party scene and then go solo but then that demolishes the fun for me. I log onto rose everyday to party with my friends and because i love the Rose online community, I am not some guy rushing to get my char maxed and can say that this is proved by the fact that i don't have a cleric or a sacri or any other char for that matter that would support a new char that i would create after maxing my mage because lets be honest. The main thing about having a mage is the fact that their AoE's are a much needed skill in parties, sure they can lure little mobs in Junon but what happens when your second char is in eldon / prison and needs someone to lure or sacri ? A mage can't help in any of those situations so it goes without saying that i am playing this game for all the right reasons!
  
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• Now i understand that forum members like ( >>>> calder12 <<<< ) would argue the fact that the main setting and objective of this game is not to level.
  
  Boy do i beg to differ, it may not be the main reason why this game has hundreds of players but it is DEFINITELY a contributing reason. It is also argued that rushing through levels causes people to miss other objectives like quests and exploration of the different worlds in rose. (( Before i reveal my point of view on this matter i would like to just clarify the fact that I HATE QUESTS, they are long, boring and utterly uninteresting. Every time i HAVE to do a quest i sink !! And i know i am not the only one because earlier in this topic someone else said that they found themselves asking when this crappy quest is going to end, but anyway). My point of view is that we are all different people and are all entitled to our own opinion. Player A may love being online for hours, doing quests, earning zulie and checking out the scenery while Player B may be into smashing mobs in the face with his / her brand new sword obtained by being the required level! This game has many types of players with many types of interests. What developers should strive to do is find a way to cater to all these players, NOT implement certain code that will irritate and drive away players who have invested in this game economically and spent hours trying to complete their objective. So what if Player B goes through 230 levels in 2 weeks ? That is his/her problem, his/her strategy, let him/her suffer the regret of not exploring Rose online alone. Don't ruin the game for everyone else!
  
  ALSO ! (i am not sure who) but another member said that before this bug invaded rose, players then used to be on every map because it was harder to accomplish things and etc etc etc! That time has unfortunately passed and right now rose online is sitting with a huge customer base that has experienced this bug, and sending them back to the stone age now will do nothing but cause frustration. These are not the same players as back then and if they wish they can and will (in my opinion) take their business elsewhere. It is sad and there is no way you are going to convince a person who was used to clearing at least 10 levels a day to spend 2 or more days clearing 1 level. It is outrageous and primitive (expression ),
  
  This game is hard enough as is, zulie doesn't drop but yet there are so many zulie demanding objects ( npc, vendors, etc ). I won't lie at first i found it selfish that people like Darren (mayor of junon polis) can stand there and demand a large sum for the junon polis donation or some crap like that when i hadn't found a source of steady income at all, of course i later realised looting when going to eldon but even that had its disadvantages (like getting fat and not being able to skill). Now you still get fat but level way longer than you normally did. The only thing that kept me on this game considering how hard it would be for me to sustain myself economically is the consolation that at the end of the day i could still open my friend list and call up my friends to decide when we are partying knowing i'd be satisfied with the level i'd be after such, except now even that has been taken away from me. I've watched 2 of my friends quit rose in the past 48 hours and went around maps in junon famous for parties (Gos and OT) and was shocked to find absolutely no one in Gos and only 1 party in OT.
  
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• Which brings me to my last point, do you developers even bother to play the game once in a while ? ... And i don't mean testing, i mean to understand the game from the users point of view, OR do you alternatively have a user representative ? Because this is how most disputes start between two people. The lack of communication, if you don't know how we feel then with your logic you could think that you are making the game completely irresistible for us when in turn we think it is turning into one of the worst MMO's we've ever experienced!
  
  For the sake of what is left of your customer base, take a day off and create new chars and start from level 0 or 1 or whatever. See for yourself what this "bug fix" has done to your game.

Edited by GarYGarr, 01 March 2013 - 04:03 AM.

[katryn]

I'd just like to add that crafters DO sink zulie and I'd say more than an average player. I for example refine everything to 5 before selling and buy items from NPCs to disassemble for materials, which often takes 10-30m+.

[cyb3rhackdotr]

We are now talking about zulie sink. This is easy! Just divide all wallets, money banks, and inventory cash by 100 ---> For example, someone with 100B will only have 1B. Gems being sold at 50M will become 500k (lol)

Edited by cyb3rhackdotr, 01 March 2013 - 06:11 AM.

[cyb3rhackdotr]

@Kermaperuna, If Leonis sees you, he'll point out again that they are not forcing free players to pay. lol

Actually, Leonis, if you guys really want to give more benefits to premium, give them something instead of limiting free players. I was also planning to get premium for dungeon but I totally changed my mind and that's because of this very very bad patch. I'm guessing someone else out there shares the same feeling with that, plans to get premium but is forced not to.

[MaxMan]

MaxMan
Leveling wasn't intended to be as fast as it was before the fix either though (see the bottom of this post for an example of what I mean). Because it took so long we know it was going to be seen as a nerf, instead of a bug fix. It is not impossible for us to continue treating the party system to help try and restore some of the feeling of slowness and loss, but don't expect it to really return to the rates previously. How fast were you leveling before? How long did it take you to get your previous level? Experience is shared between everyone, there is an additional bonus for those who participate in attacking and being an Artisan and having range, you could help by taking a couple shots here and there too. It is my goal to make Artisans a better party player through the coming skill balances and updates too. So for now, it is just how things are, till they change.

oh i not really complaining abayt the new raits on exp you get when you lvl in party,i tray'ed to solo and i lvl faster in solo now then i did in a party and i dont really care anyway yea artisans have range and i do shoot will am in party but i did not see any difrents in the exp i got will i was in the party and the just to say it yet agen the party lvl did not go higher then lvl 6 and we play for houres and it just stay there so something have bin done wrong right there,if its hard to get party lvl to go up like that then we lost alot of exp that way.

the new rates do reminds me from the old IRose times and then it was fun and more challange to lvl up and i do prefear it like that becose it giv you more time on each map you go true and you also then get to collect even more materials and items that you normaly do will your out lvling so i do see the + and - on the new party exp system oh and if someone know what or where demon metal drops please let me know i need it

[ganjen]

oh i not really complaining abayt the new raits on exp you get when you lvl in party,i tray'ed to solo and i lvl faster in solo now then i did in a party and i dont really care anyway yea artisans have range and i do shoot will am in party but i did not see any difrents in the exp i got will i was in the party and the just to say it yet agen the party lvl did not go higher then lvl 6 and we play for houres and it just stay there so something have bin done wrong right there,if its hard to get party lvl to go up like that then we lost alot of exp that way.

the new rates do reminds me from the old IRose times and then it was fun and more challange to lvl up and i do prefear it like that becose it giv you more time on each map you go true and you also then get to collect even more materials and items that you normaly do will your out lvling so i do see the + and - on the new party exp system oh and if someone know what or where demon metal drops please let me know i need it

. Hey there are 2 channels in the game , low rate exp and a high rate exp. which means if people want to level slowly, they should join Leonis right, while the people who do not enjoying spending hours and days for living they choose draconis . So what's the point making it hard to lvl on. A high rate exp server right............. The update just failed . Just put it back how it used to be

[cyb3rhackdotr]

My point is , try not to make the game pay with the real money to be good or powerful.

Exactly! From the very beginning, IM should not affect gameplay such as those refining materials etc. I remember back then, IM's original sales are plainly costumes, because they all said it was against to their policy to sell anything that will involve the player's advantage to the game.

What happened?

[MaxMan]

. Hey there are 2 channels in the game , low rate exp and a high rate exp. which means if people want to level slowly, they should join Leonis right, while the people who do not enjoying spending hours and days for living they choose draconis . So what's the point making it hard to lvl on. A high rate exp server right............. The update just failed . Just put it back how it used to be

there not 2 channels there 2 servers leonis and the draconis and there same exp on both as i know of

[jagz]

jagz

Well my thing is, as many times as I hear "the community is small" that statement is untrue. However, the amount of players that are in the tier range many of you are coming from, no there are not many of you in comparison. And I am aware of the slow start times in the PvP matches. I personally think a portion of that is because of it waiting on a Cleric to both sides in our attempts to ensure equality in teams. But I'm also a bit under the mind set that perhaps we shouldn't be the ones to govern this. Otherwise it starts leading in to stepping in to each PvP match and comparing level differences, gear, refinement, build and where should it end? Letting it be a bit more open ended puts more on to the community to organize themselves the best party they can in order to win and that should be something they are rewarded for in effort as well as in victory.

We players were already organizing ourselves for these CD's. I certainly don't want you or your staff to govern it either, and definitely didn't ask for that to be done.

I also bought premium to try the new instance. I have not been able to play even once yet.

You guys did a great thing by developing Draconis Peaks. The one time that it went we all had fun.

The community and premium subscriptions are enough to support 2 PVP GA's simultaneously you say? Again, you have numbers at your fingertips.. Data I do not, however, how many of those are players have Game Arena > Crystal Defenders > Join Queue clicked in?

Back to those numbered suggestions you had, I think they are good. It's middle ground, I can live with it. I hope to see some alleviation soon, very soon.


Now onto the experience rates. I think it can be simplified further, and this is very important. To prevent certain classes and simply weaker players from being alienated, add 1 or 2% per party member for experience rates. So, it's still beneficial for me to add someone to help them out. They have to be in range ofcourse, and I can't forsee people lvling 6 of their own characters just to gain that couple %.

[Naughty]

Few posts removed.
This Topic is the patch notes for the official NARoseOnline.
Please keep from discussing illegal private servers.
Naming or not, it's just not welcome here

[Leonis]

A lot of good suggestions. But also some of them require more development work outside of what's at hand.

There's three discussions going on here in the thread now and its kind of losing a little focus some times.

• Game Arena timers.
• Party Experience Share Bug Fix.
• Zulie Drain on the economy.

• Inflation is not caused by the Item Mall because the Item Mall does not contribute to direct consistant zulie generation.
• Inflation comes from zulie generation, which is effectively normal game play. Unfortunately, we've had a surge of zulie generation caused by exploits we strive to find and squish.
• Not all zulie is gained this way, but it certainly didn't help.

NamirBarades
Coming up with content to fill an Elite Shop would take time to do, unless we used existing things. We have to compete with ourselves when trying to come up with new costumes, armors, gear, etc. I'm not against the idea, just trying to let you know that the practicality of producing a wide volume of items takes a while to do.

But I absolutely love the idea and hopefully I can figure out a means to provide in the near future because I would love to have a tiger print to my CG.

bundat
The party share was not a "nerf." A NERF is the intentional reduction to a working as intended feature.

The party share was NOT working as intended, it had an ERROR in its math formula that was causing experience to not be split correctly between the party and was instead only amplifying experience as if you were soloing. The problem with this is that a "leecher" could do nothing and gain more experience from a single kill in a minimal 2 person party than if they were alone and actually trying to kill. This is a BAD MECHANIC and was NOT INTENDED. Experience was intended to be boosted for those in a party, from the normal amount and then split amongst the party members. Now I'm sorry to say that this issue took so long to discover, but we couldn't just leave it in. There is no hidden agenda, no conspiracy, no greed intent to "force" anything by changing it, other than we wanted to fix a bad calculation. Now, the community has "had it easy" for so long because of this, the experience you get per kill looks diminished and few are looking at the difference of leveling speed versus soloing, only comparing how long (short) it used to take, compared to now to get one, if not several levels. A prime example was recently shown when someone noted they leveled from 221 to 230 in a matter of a few hours when we upped the level cap. That was initially expected to take at least a couple days for even the most hardcore because we knew how much experience was needed per level and the yield of experience at best, that should have been possible. A lot of the game's design is in mind when we make content and experience gains is one of them. It isn't that we want to make the game a grind, but there is an intended rate of speed we do base our content off of so that when we provide quest rewards they are in relation to the gains you may have also achieved while on a quest. The bad calculation was ruining this and making quest rewards feel less rewarding, because you were getting a fraction of what you would while on the quest, quests were felt to be 'pointless' for the sake of experience.

This was a bug fix. Not to make it sound like it was a small issue, we know it was going to make a big impact. That's why I brought the question up to the community a while ago and pointed out that it was broken to be prepared that once it gets fixed, it will feel horrible.

The experience you had from that friendly player sounds like a great experience. But was it really just the speed you would get experience from a party or was it the activity of playing with someone willing to be friendly? I think perhaps you missed out on more that could have been if the party share wasn't so broken. Yes it would have taken you longer to achieve the levels, but that would have also been time spent with your newly found friend, reaching the same goals over time, instead of burning through it at a rate so fast you probably never saw entire maps.

Now, all that aside, your trend of posting stopped being helpful, which is why I removed your last post. I've already noted we get the frustration, we get the hate, we understand and are working on a better solution but if you are going to continue to just keep kicking the bees nest, there is no more reason for you to continue posting. You aren't helping by doing this. Listing off your unhappy experiences is no longer sending a message because message was already received. If you wish to provide continued help by perhaps supporting ideas you think would be good ones, please do, but stop posting about just unhappy you are with everything.

Kenzz23
The calculation to how experience was sharing had a major error in it. That's the simple truth. As I explained above, it wasn't splitting experience earned between the party, it was just giving it and in some cases, giving a much larger boost than it should have been too.

There was no motive in sales behind the desire to fix the calculation, other than we just wanted to fix something that was not intended.

GarYGarr
I appreciate your opinion on why the exp share should not have been fixed. But a broken mechanic is a broken mechanic and leaving it in would force us to make changes in other ways to compensate for the fact that experience yields in a party were multitudes higher than solo play. If we tried adjusting experience of monsters, the solo player would suffer greatly and make it impossible to have it as an option. At that point, "we would be forcing party play."

In regards to when it happened, it happened when the party system was last updated. Yes, a long time ago. As far as, was the math thought out, yes it was, the error came from a misplaced factor in the equation. The wrong variable in the wrong location of a math calculation can dramatically change the answer. If you are not reaching level 50, there's a good chance it means you're not fighting monsters of challenge. Party leveling is not dependent on the experience of the monster. It is dependent on your level difference to the monster.

it seems as if the developers themselves don't know how many mobs a player would have to kill to reach 188 million exp

188 Million Exp, well that's roughly a going for level 222. If you're killing monsters for exactly their hit points, with no bonuses, medals, premium, party influence bonuses or overkill and totally soloing the monsters yourself. It would be:

2,843 Basic type monsters OR
2,585 Guard or Ranger type monsters OR
2,472 Fighter or Hunter type monsters OR
2,369 Warrior or Magician type monsters OR
1,895 Leader type monsters OR
1,422 Captain type monsters OR
569 Sub-Boss type monsters OR
114 King/Boss type monsters.

And this would also take in to consideration whatever adjustments we might put to the experience gains based on if the monster is a high quantity spawn rate, made to be easier for some reason or another, or any number of other reasons. But that would be your, as well as our, base point of reference when we take in to consideration the amount of kills to expect to go through in order to obtain that amount of experience to level.

Try to understand from this point of view. We have spent a lot of time trying to ensure the designs of the game mechanics are something we can know to rely on for when we create content, we can better theorize the outcome before it becomes implemented. Rewards, time, effort, all of that is done from a fairly base point so that when content is created, we know that a player wearing the bare minimum of equipment may or may not have a chance to get through certain content.
Now if you know how something is intended to work and you plan out content that -should- take so long to get through, and find that it is being ran through like a man on fire to a waterfall (a fraction of the time) something is out of place. We can account for a lot of player intuition, sometimes we can be surprised by how much, but it generally falls within reason to our expectations. Now, when it came to leveling, predictions based on what we "knew" how the system worked and the outcomes should be, would never match to the reality of outcome. Something was wrong, we found out why and immediately had our palms in our faces to realize the mistake and then again to realize how long it has been that way.

So what if Player B goes through 230 levels in 2 weeks ?

The "so what" issue is whether or not it is intended by design. That is one of the jobs we have to ensure, that game play is by design. When things go out of design, they go out of control and when things go out of control, we can no longer develop with knowledge over what we would be impacting. There is, of course, the human factor in creativity when we provide so many factors to choose from, something will inevitably be found we didn't consider and we have to then review whether we wish to allow it or not.

jagz
There IS a bonus to every additional member you add to a party.
A lot of what I'm seeing comments on is "I get less exp per kill." Yes, because the experience is now being divided amongst the party, whereas before, it was being multiplied by the number of people in the party and then divided (effectively treating it as if you are the only one in the party to get the experience)

jagz, this isn't necessarily for you but for those who are still questioning this fix.
I've done this before already, but I'll do it again:

• You have a monster that is about to give 1000 experience for killing it.
• That 1000 experience is modified by a bonus depending on the number of people in your party. Let's say 2 people and the bonus is 10% for 2 people.
• Then the party level also adds in to the bonus experience factor, 2.5% per party level. Let's say you have a level 10 party, so 25%.
• 2 people bonus (10%) plus the party level (25%), making a total of 35% bonus experience. So, the 1000, turns in to 1350 experience. This is where the bad calculation had a mistake. Instead of just dividing the experience between the party (2 people) it would multiply it, then divide it. So the two players would get 1350 experience for the one monster's defeat, just for being in party.

An extra 1350 experience was just generated, making that one kill, almost 2.5x the experience yield in total. We take in to account that both players are participating in the fight, making them do roughly twice the damage output. Not all classes have the same ability to do damage, build, equipment, skills all make a factor in that damage output, but for the sake of easy understanding, we're putting it up as "two players", doesn't matter the class, doesn't matter the build, doesn't matter their abilities. Two players defeated 1 monster and it was taken down twice as fast as it would have normally taken. So that 1350 experience now gets split between the two players that just killed twice as fast and they move on to the next monster and proceed to do the same. Now, two monsters in about the same amount of time to kill one alone, both yielding 35% more experience for the same amount of time, means in those two kills, you got a 35% bonus to experience in about the same amount of time. Whereas before this bug, you just got 270% for the same effort.

This is not an intended rate of experience gain. Regardless to how used to it everyone was, this was a broken mechanic and way beyond intended design. Unfortunately, no matter how fun it might have been, it was not something we could incorporate to game play as it was so far beyond any design scale we felt was acceptable. We know this wasn't a popular decision, but it was a necessary one. Now, after all this, we are still not against helping to make the party play experience feel more enjoyable, but we will not be returning the absurd amount of experience yields that were previously occurring, just for being in a party. One of the intended design aspects of party play is to have people gain better results by working as a team. Whether this be an increased survivability, experience rate over time or the fun of stomping through an area at a rate you couldn't alone, it’s a team effort and people working to progress together.

Now, someone pointed out they could level faster as a solo than with a group. I would like to hear that experience and comparison between your partying and solo play. Did you track time and experience? I would like to hear about experiences between solo and party play. If you solo, what amount of experience did you get over the course of 30 minutes, an hour, set a time standard to go by and write down your level, how much experience you have and what you end at. Then as a party, do the same thing, note where you started as experience, the time and where you end off and then note if others in the party were putting in the same effort or if they were not. Hopefully they all were, because that's where it is going to make a difference. Not other per kill experience, because that's going to be divided amongst the party, so that's not a true way to measure experience gains, because it is not supposed to be that way. Experience is shared with the party as a group experience, even if you did all the killing, you formed a party and that experience is shared with them now.

[Leonis]

I'm going to leave this as a final post to help direct this thread.

This is going to be the first weekend under the latest changes. I truly encourage each and every player to try to make the best of what changes have happened.
After the weekend, we will be reviewing not only the feedback, but the actual activity of what each change impacted to see if it matches not just our expectations but our goals.

Please try not to just post rage and hate, we really have an interest in to improving things from this point because we know how much we've upset members of the community and want to try to get back to the fun of things. We have a huge update we're trying to get started with the skill balancing and would really like to be able to get started. But we're not until we can come to a place where we feel this upset has a better compromised solution worked out.

Have a great weekend everyone!

[Phish]

If the party exp calculation was bugged in how it works, why did it take 3 years to announce it? This happened during the Orlo update December 2009. Everyone assumed it was intentional because it would have been left the same if it wasn't otherwise. The change now is reverting it back to the pre orlo party mechanics except with a higher bonus per party level correct?

[Gojio]

I have an idea for the party experience.

In order to alleviate the huge dissatisfaction going on right now, instead of applying the proper formula that divides the experience by the number of people in party, for now it could work if it divided it by HALF the number of people in party..the 2 players party would make an exception though, so that people will not abuse it and make 2 players parties only.

It could work like this:

Party of 2 players = no difference from now. (Normal exp + party members bonus + party level bonus)/2
Party of 3 players = (Normal exp + party members bonus + party level bonus)/1.5 (encourages bigger parties)
Party of 4 players = (Normal exp + party members bonus + party level bonus)/2 (same exp as a party of 2, once again encourages bigger party)
Party of 5 players = (Normal exp + party members bonus + party level bonus)/2,5 + 10% extra experience for everyone
Party of 6 players = (Normal exp + party members bonus + party level bonus)/3 + 20% experience for everyone

This way, bigger parties will be more acceptable as everyone gains a exp bonus (the numbers are just an example) and the "non desiderable" classes might have an higher chance to find a party.

[bundat]

Combined party effort doesn't matter as much as you would wish.

In maps like with the moldies and krawfies, a single sacri running around can get all the monsters within a single party's range, and the AoE can kill them all alone.

In GoS, at the elder stone golems spot, a single AoE can kill the entire mob spawn without even moving.

In DoD, a single sacri can also get all antares within a party's range, and a single AoE can take them all. Same at the giant's spot.

In OT b2, the AoE doesn't need to move either when in the prime spot. Killing is just as efficient soloing, if you have a sacri tank.

I could keep going, but all I'm trying to say is that parties are not "more efficient" enough to even warrant forming them, because entire spawns within a parties range can be killed efficiently by a single AoE.

The game seemed to be about shortcuts, or at least, one that favors fast-paced gameplay instead of slow grinding (with repeatable "price list" quests instantly giving 20 levels, ruven tokens, carts and mounts to move faster, the fast-levelling system in the past, easy upgrades due to plutorunes, anywhere storage tickets, etc.), but it seems that I was mistaken and all it was was just a lucky coincidence.

Anyway, with your last reply to me, its all too clear that you've heard enough from me that any further feedback is going to be hostile, and that this is here to stay and this will not be changed. So I bid you adios. Good bye, good luck, and good riddance.

P.S. I also noted that you ignored my reply about how to fix the CD queueing system, which, unlike you said, is actually very helpful, perhaps more helpful than most of the posts here. I should be charging consultancy rates for that, that is, if it were actually being taken into consideration.

[Gojio]

Maybe we should remove this Sacrifice skill then, and have people work their asses off again to get some exp. Everyone has gotten way too lazy in this game.

If a GM visited Sikuku Ruins or Oblivion Temple on a daily basis he'd suspend dozens of players a day for botting. That is the real disease of this game. This Sacrifice skill made every other way of lvling a waste of time.

[cyb3rhackdotr]

You don't need to remove sacri. Just add damage to it so it won't be abused for lower levels.

[Leonis]

If the party exp calculation was bugged in how it works, why did it take 3 years to announce it? This happened during the Orlo update December 2009. Everyone assumed it was intentional because it would have been left the same if it wasn't otherwise. The change now is reverting it back to the pre orlo party mechanics except with a higher bonus per party level correct?

Why it took so long, to be honest, because it wasn't known. And I'm not quite so sure about it having been 3 years. However, it is not reverting, it is correcting the multiplier that was mistakenly placed, instead of just a divisor.

I have an idea for the party experience.

In order to alleviate the huge dissatisfaction going on right now, instead of applying the proper formula that divides the experience by the number of people in party, for now it could work if it divided it by HALF the number of people in party..the 2 players party would make an exception though, so that people will not abuse it and make 2 players parties only.

It could work like this:

Party of 2 players = no difference from now. (Normal exp + party members bonus + party level bonus)/2
Party of 3 players = (Normal exp + party members bonus + party level bonus)/1.5 (encourages bigger parties)
Party of 4 players = (Normal exp + party members bonus + party level bonus)/2 (same exp as a party of 2, once again encourages bigger party)
Party of 5 players = (Normal exp + party members bonus + party level bonus)/2,5 + 10% extra experience for everyone
Party of 6 players = (Normal exp + party members bonus + party level bonus)/3 + 20% experience for everyone

This way, bigger parties will be more acceptable as everyone gains a exp bonus (the numbers are just an example) and the "non desiderable" classes might have an higher chance to find a party.

I actually really like this idea! Thank you Gojio. I will give it some thought over the weekend.

bundat
Thank you and welcome back to the discussion.

Yes, currently there are some classes with skills that are more beneficial to mob with than others. The skill balance is going to change that, as it is a goal to ensure every class has an 'AoE' that they can contribute to party play. Additionally, AoE skills are not going to be the overpowering skills they are now. As I've mentioned in another post, an AoE's power comes from the total output of damage to a group, not a single strike.
This is a major flaw in how the AoE skills were last 'balanced' because they were further down the skill tree, it was 'expected' the next skill would become stronger than the last.

In regards to my last response to you, I did take the time to read what you said but you were repeating and going over old ground already covered and it felt like you had ignored my previous post to try to work on moving forward and not just regurgitating how things are. There have been plenty of posts to give me the message about the current state of things, hearing about it more is simply just not helping.

As far as the timers go, I have been happy to hear the ideas to what would be acceptable. I did give thanks to it, perhaps not to you but to the idea overall and they have been put up as stronger possibilities to implement as an implementation resolution.

[TheRealSporadic]

How about premiums can have no restriction on doing the GA daily quest.

[GarYGarr]

Leonis I am very happy with the response i got from you as it seems you are trying to meet me halfway on this matter.


However

I appreciate your opinion on why the exp share should not have been fixed. But a broken mechanic is a broken mechanic and leaving it in would force us to make changes in other ways to compensate for the fact that experience yields in a party were multitudes higher than solo play. If we tried adjusting experience of monsters, the solo player would suffer greatly and make it impossible to have it as an option. At that point, "we would be forcing party play."

This statement tells me that you are trying to make the game fair and make the game dynamically equal for everyone, which in reality is the thing a game developer should aim for and as a developer myself i completely understand this. Except an aspect of what is going on is being overlooked, although it may seem as if you don't want to force party play i think it would be a great idea to encourage it. I am not saying do this by making the exp share unreasonably higher than solo exp gain, but find some way to encourage it, maybe give a bonus in the party exp that probably shouldn't be available in the solo exp gain. I mean there would be no Rose Online community if everyone was just running around doing solo leveling, that would be very sad for this game and we would have a higher rate of greedy people and in turn it would STILL be a factor that chases new people away from this game. So if you don't want to force party play at least please consider encouraging it for the sake of certain job classes with a lower def level such as cleric's. In these cases this is a supporting char with very few offense skills, I have never met a cleric soloing neither do i understand why they would even attempt such when 10 hits from a mob that is lower levels from them could still kill them, i've seen it happen when a mob with a green name almost killed a cleric in a party with me in sikuku prison, so soloing for such characters is out of the question. They are bound to party for the rest of their levels, and although this bug fix was to make things fair for solo users, i will be honest in saying it does seem like party play is being DIScouraged, It would be very nice if it was adjusted if there are no plans what so ever to revert the calculation to its prior state.

If you are not reaching level 50, there's a good chance it means you're not fighting monsters of challenge. Party leveling is not dependent on the experience of the monster. It is dependent on your level difference to the monster.

There is a double standard within party leveling and its a very big problem, I don't know if anyone has noticed this or not but only the very strong parties ever reach party level 50, and this is fact. Weaker parties consisting of weaker classes are less likely to go challenging fierce mobs around rose mostly because they don't have max leveled characters doing sacrifice and max level clerics doing party heal and salamander / mana flames or even bonfire and therefore settle for what they can kill and for how long they can stay alive, and according to your statement they will never reach party level 50 and thus they are doomed to horrific exp just because they aren't strong enough. Like i said in my above mentioned statement. This again discourages party play and these poor characters now have to start new characters just so they can put themselves through the game, it is like in real life where certain laws work perfectly for rich people and do absolutely nothing for the poor. This would do heavy damage on my conscious as a developer knowing players are suffering like this because of who they are, and starting new stronger characters may be out of their character in a manner such as the player is a girl who just loves supporting and we are now forcing her to become a brute who will go through levels soloing mobs to just have a chance so that her cleric can finally level. I don't know how Rose ethics work and i may be very naive but this seems wrong to me.

188 Million Exp, well that's roughly a going for level 222. If you're killing monsters for exactly their hit points, with no bonuses, medals, premium, party influence bonuses or overkill and totally soloing the monsters yourself. It would be:

2,843 Basic type monsters OR
2,585 Guard or Ranger type monsters OR
2,472 Fighter or Hunter type monsters OR
2,369 Warrior or Magician type monsters OR
1,895 Leader type monsters OR
1,422 Captain type monsters OR
569 Sub-Boss type monsters OR
114 King/Boss type monsters.

And this would also take in to consideration whatever adjustments we might put to the experience gains based on if the monster is a high quantity spawn rate, made to be easier for some reason or another, or any number of other reasons. But that would be your, as well as our, base point of reference when we take in to consideration the amount of kills to expect to go through in order to obtain that amount of experience to level.

I looked at these numbers and couldn't help but be amazed because although 2 thousand mobs may not be as many as 700 000 (which is what you would need to kill in a party with the new exp share) they are still never the less high! It is not impossible, it is faster than trying to level in a party but it is still amazing. At this point in time i realize that there is nothing no one can say to try and convince you that you should make this game a little bit easier. From my understanding Draconis is suppose to be the easier server to play on but such patches are implemented on both servers as if there is no difference to them at all, at least if an adjustment like this was made on one server and not on the other it would make a lot of sense, but that is a discussion for another day. Right now i would like to repeat my statement that this does in fact discourage party play. Just take a second to calculate how many mobs a party would have to kill for a member to reach the next level from 223 to 223. With that said i am pretty sure i am going to be told that why not solo ? Solo (as i said before) is a double standard and can only be done by certain characters and mostly favors soldier type classes and maybe hawkers to, the rest are in danger of being killed before they are anywhere near earning their well deserved exp. Unless they get a cleric to come along but that has 2 disadvantages, this player now has to babysit the cleric to make sure it doesn't get killed AND this cleric would want in which leads back to the fact that they need a party !! Which will take them back to square 1 initiate a party and get low exp, so there is no way to get around this issue unless (again) if they own that cleric and it is a max level char and that would be the only way possible for a weak defense char to level successfully without a party. Although i wish them a lot of luck trying to take a cleric to level 230 now if they don't have any other max chars because it is virtually impossible (not taking quests into consideration). So i hope you see leonis how deep this matter actually goes, i have looked at this from every point of view and what i keep coming up with is that this fix seems as if it was made to discourage party play, and for some characters there is no leveling without a party irrespective of whether they need a party to level or just enjoy leveling with a party as opposed to soloing. So please take party play into consideration in a positive manner. I do hope you understand where i'm coming from.

[GarYGarr]

I agree with this post 100% by the way, like i stated in my post above, this system works for the rich but disregards the poor in this case works fine for the strong and aoe chars and does no favors for the rest of the classes, the compensation for this was party play which at least made sure that such characters leveled through parties. But with that gone what are they to do now ? I am just lucky i hadn't purchased anything from the item mall before this patch got implemented because the items i was going to buy were going to be purely the benefit of my party members, and now it would be useless to buy such from the item mall if no one in the game wants to party anymore. It would have been a complete waste of money. I don't know what the riff ruff is about the economy and neither am i a specialist in that case at all which is why i have avoided such talks because i am only experienced in the development side of things. But if i may say, i have played many games in my time and never have i been to a marketplace where i've see an item for sale at 1 billion of that games currency, i was speechless when i saw an item in junon polis for that amount and actually wondered if anyone had that amount of zulie at all. But then again i think the inflation here is crazy and should rapidly be brought down because these numbers are unrealistic. There is nothing for sale at these stalls that is less than 1 million zulie that would actually contribute to your interests in this game which in turn means everything under a million is virtually useless and is just for show.

.
My 2cents worth

[NamirBarades]

NamirBarades
Coming up with content to fill an Elite Shop would take time to do, unless we used existing things. We have to compete with ourselves when trying to come up with new costumes, armors, gear, etc. I'm not against the idea, just trying to let you know that the practicality of producing a wide volume of items takes a while to do.

But I absolutely love the idea and hopefully I can figure out a means to provide in the near future because I would love to have a tiger print to my CG.

Well, to start with you could just use things with different colors. Things that already exist just with colors that don't exist. Different colors to CG would be awesome. The ideas are endless. And then, slowly, you could add something new and unique to it.

[DarthKarla]

Is the party experience rate really got cut down considerably? I do think that the Monster kill xp is still the same and that the only change was how it was distributed.

And I think leveling is still faster than the pre Evo days. If that is the case I think we just need some getting used to and grin just a bit harder.

What I really don't like about this patch is the timers. That will really kill the game.

[cyb3rhackdotr]

I'm wondering too. If the EXP is really distributed, then whether only the AoE does the work or everyone, they all still get equal exp. Right?

[DarthKarla]

I'm wondering too. If the EXP is really distributed, then whether only the AoE does the work or everyone, they all still get equal exp. Right?

That is whats happening before the patch a standing Hawker not moving a muscle will get the same amount of Xp from an AOE kill. After the patch non killing characters will only get a portion of the experience. Experience rate Divided by number of party members. This is why big parties are no longer in. The reason it hampers leveling is even if your party consists of active players like Scout,Raider,AOE Champ and mage, the fact is that Mage would be like kill stilling the other characters with less powerful AOEs. Hages have like 4AoEs. And the other types needs to move a way from the AOE spot just to get some pure experience points which I think is almost imposible in High Mob high hostile environment. Its like they have to solo out constantly.

Well at least no more A-_-.