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Klyde's Rogue Guide [The Basics]


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#26 rzevidz007

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 03:09 AM

How in the world did you design those pics. :rice:
Photoshop level: over 9000!
AWESOME GUIDE WITH AWESOME GRAPHICS! Sorry for using caps lol.
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#27 StryfeK

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 03:10 AM

If you still have access to that character, would you mind posting how much Dodge/Parry each of those accessories give? Or give me item names I can look up? I'm curious to see exactly how much they add then.


Honor Knightage Defend Ornament / Earrings / Ring / Necklace
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#28 synesthetic

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 03:40 AM

Yes, his aesthetic sense is delicious.

And thanks. I couldn't find the Necklace, so I'm going off of an estimate that it'd be about 25% stronger than Earrings.
Total Dodge/Parry then should be about 74/37.
Or 1.69% Dodge Rate, and 0.84% Parry Rate.

For comparison's sake, Honor Knight Rush accessories would be..
Total Hit/Vigor/Haste is 32/119/119.
0.73% Hit Rate, and 2.72% Vigor/Haste Rate.
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#29 KIyde

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:52 AM

How in the world did you design those pics. :rice:
Photoshop level: over 9000!
AWESOME GUIDE WITH AWESOME GRAPHICS! Sorry for using caps lol.


Thanks man! appreciate it, I had quite a lot of fun doing it haha.

Yes, his aesthetic sense is delicious.

And thanks. I couldn't find the Necklace, so I'm going off of an estimate that it'd be about 25% stronger than Earrings.
Total Dodge/Parry then should be about 74/37.
Or 1.69% Dodge Rate, and 0.84% Parry Rate.

For comparison's sake, Honor Knight Rush accessories would be..
Total Hit/Vigor/Haste is 32/119/119.
0.73% Hit Rate, and 2.72% Vigor/Haste Rate.


What Stryfe said its correct, that's the set I used.

Doesn't seem right, equipping all my Parry/Dodge accessories gave me more than 1.5% if I recall correctly.

Again, it's all preference.

Edited by KIyde, 21 April 2013 - 08:53 AM.

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#30 Velouce

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:44 AM

In my build, I leave more than one skills at level 4, since the extra point could go somewhere else, so I agree with you there.. it all comes to preference, when you're between level 25~35 I can suggest you get a feel with all your skills, to see what is it that you use the most and what you don't. Smoke Bomb doesn't really work in PvE as well as it should, if the mob is still targetting you when you use it, it'll just hit you and you'll come off from hide.

Also, PvP kills mostly come from burst damage, so killing someone from Poisoning has a very low chance, but it's not impossible however. Specially on the final rounds.


Well my thought on poison weap was, if someone runs because of low HP, the poison might get him down, or it could be useful against rangers/sorc/wiz, having them infected while theyre standing distant, also when you're under hide/smoke bomb, the poison might do its job. But that's theoretic, no idea how this turns out practically.

Hmm, that's a lot of points on Hide. Sadly if you want to be more PvP oriented, I'd recommend focusing a bit more on Dark Illusion and Smoke Bomb, these will get you plenty of kill steals in Colosseum.


Wouldn't it be better to use skills like Deadly Blow on top f smoke bomb, rather than using skill points on dark illusion?
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#31 KIyde

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:55 AM

Well my thought on poison weap was, if someone runs because of low HP, the poison might get him down, or it could be useful against rangers/sorc/wiz, having them infected while theyre standing distant, also when you're under hide/smoke bomb, the poison might do its job. But that's theoretic, no idea how this turns out practically.


You're correct, this would be the case on a 1 vs 1 match. However, there are many people in Colosseum, and the chances that someone will steal your kill is a lot higher than them dying of the poison.

Wouldn't it be better to use skills like Deadly Blow on top f smoke bomb, rather than using skill points on dark illusion?


If you mean the Smoke Bomb + Combo Mastery Deadly Blow combo then this would be ideal, yes. However, this doesn't always work since most likely, you're being targetted, and if you're not, you might have a debuff equivalent to Poison such as Poison Arrow, Skull Bash? (the Swordy skill that makes you bleed) or any other since most classes have a 'drain HP per second' skill. If you use Smoke Bomb while any of these are present, you'll just come off hiding because of the damage you're receiving. Smoke Bomb is great to use right after you have died, and resurrected and no one had the chance to target you yet.
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#32 D111

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:35 PM

Very Sexy guide, I stole it and Qouted and placed it on my Guild forums if you dont mind.
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#33 KIyde

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:21 PM

Very Sexy guide, I stole it and Qouted and placed it on my Guild forums if you dont mind.


Haha, thank you, go for it! :no1:
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#34 rollchan

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:40 PM

Very nice, I like the photoshop thing you guys made, it looks very good and make the guide interesting to read :P

You might wanna add that using smoke bomb will make people lose their target to you, so they have to re-target you again, even though you get hit and revealed instantly afterwards. Useful in colosseum IMO where it's hard to target a specific person :P
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#35 KIyde

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:13 AM

Very nice, I like the photoshop thing you guys made, it looks very good and make the guide interesting to read :P

You might wanna add that using smoke bomb will make people lose their target to you, so they have to re-target you again, even though you get hit and revealed instantly afterwards. Useful in colosseum IMO where it's hard to target a specific person :P


Thank you thank you! Stryfe said you asked for the chart I made for him haha, makes reading a bit more entertaining.

You're right, Smoke Bomb does reset target... but the reason I didn't mention it, was because I personally like to use it as a form of killing rather than escaping. Once Colosseum starts, the only time you can use regular hide is before the countdown, after that you can't hide unless you go into the next round since it's always on "Battle Mode".

I mean, It could save your life... but not enough to make a come back, and seeing as even at level 3, its cool down is 2 minutes so technically, you can use it only once if you don't use Dirty Plan.
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#36 rollchan

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:33 AM

Thank you thank you! Stryfe said you asked for the chart I made for him haha, makes reading a bit more entertaining.

You're right, Smoke Bomb does reset target... but the reason I didn't mention it, was because I personally like to use it as a form of killing rather than escaping. Once Colosseum starts, the only time you can use regular hide is before the countdown, after that you can't hide unless you go into the next round since it's always on "Battle Mode".

I mean, It could save your life... but not enough to make a come back, and seeing as even at level 3, its cool down is 2 minutes so technically, you can use it only once if you don't use Dirty Plan.

Yup, thanks for letting me to use the chart :)

Good point, it's better to get kills rather than delaying the inevitable anyway, still that trick saved me a couple of times in colosseum, only works in early rounds though, at later rounds the number of people start decreasing so people can re-target you quickly :P
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#37 ShimHearts

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:03 PM

Extremely well executed guide :D
I wish I'd figured out the smoke bomb > Moonlight dance on my own, but you've shown me the light :D
Good stuff man. I hope you don't mind but I linked this guide to my own, since it holds extreme clarification on the basics of rogues that I didn't want to go over :P
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#38 KIyde

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:24 PM

Extremely well executed guide :D
I wish I'd figured out the smoke bomb > Moonlight dance on my own, but you've shown me the light :D
Good stuff man. I hope you don't mind but I linked this guide to my own, since it holds extreme clarification on the basics of rogues that I didn't want to go over :P


Haha! it's awesome when it does happen, specially when the last hit is a Crit, you really feel it! :no1:
And of course not, I already commented on your guide!

Edited by KIyde, 23 April 2013 - 03:25 PM.

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#39 Myztik

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 07:54 AM

Hi, thx for your guide, just 2 questions, don't see the job in your guide. What job do you use with Rogue (blacksmith & artisan ?)
And can you link ur buildskills recommended ? for the 2 path.

Edited by Myztik, 26 April 2013 - 08:09 AM.

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#40 KIyde

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 06:44 PM

Hi, thx for your guide, just 2 questions, don't see the job in your guide. What job do you use with Rogue (blacksmith & artisan ?)
And can you link ur buildskills recommended ? for the 2 path.


Job wise, a lot of Rogues either like to go with Alchemist or Artisan. Alchemist because Rogues benefit greatly from pots, and Artisan because you can usually update your own equips. Also, at endgame they both can be quite profitable given you find the right recipes.

I didn't post my builds since they are quite similar to many you can find in pages such as this ones. Everyone has their own preference, just play with your own skills and see what you use the most, and don't use as much.
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#41 Anarch12911

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:32 PM

After a lot of research and thoughtful thinking I decided to make the following my rogue build:

http://ro2base.com/b...310543.22310543

(Don't mind the cards too much). Feedback is welcome. It's a very PvE focused build so I put just enough points in Hiding to make it usable (40% movement slow would've been too much)

Maxed out Rolling Cutter to have decent AoE output if the situation requires (raid or solo) as well as the compensate for the lack of meteor assault. I know that seemingly 1vs1 is the strongest damage output for rogues, but completely ignoring any AoE capability could do potentially much harm in certain situations.

5/5 Poisoning Weapon should do more damage output on a fight than maxing Deadly Blow.

EDIT: The only thing I might consider is moving points out of Rolling Cutter and Dirty Plan to put into Dual Strike (for a maximum of 3/5 because 4/5 only gives 1% AP more)

Edited by Anarch12911, 27 April 2013 - 10:46 PM.

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#42 Ahjussi

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:32 PM

@Anarch I don't think you understood the skill description for Deadly Blow.. You should also consider at least 1 point in Dark Illusion, as for Rolling Cutter I have nothing to say.. :p_swt:
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#43 Shouichirou

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:48 PM

Going to look at the bright side here.

Assuming the [Envenom Weapon] has the "ability" to poison each enemy hit by [Rolling Cutter], it might . . . be more useful . . than it seems . . (I mean, AOE 30% poison "might" come handy on a few occurrences).

This is me looking at the bright side, would need someone to actually try and confirm this theory though.

Edited by Shouichirou, 27 April 2013 - 11:48 PM.

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#44 synesthetic

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:17 AM

I don't think it's a bad idea to max Poison.
Lv.1 vs. Lv.5 Poison is a difference of about 50% over 20 seconds.
Lv.1 vs. Lv.5 Deadly Blow is a difference of about 8% per use, so you'd have to use it over 6 times within 20 seconds for it to beat a maxed Poison proc.

I would probably drop Cutter to 1 and at least get Lv.1 Dark Illusion. It's a great opener against regular monsters (always 4x damage from it) and it grants you mobility.
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#45 Anarch12911

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:13 AM

@Anarch I don't think you understood the skill description for Deadly Blow.. You should also consider at least 1 point in Dark Illusion, as for Rolling Cutter I have nothing to say.. :p_swt:


I'm quite certain I got my information correct.

5/5 Deadly Blow = 60% total AP damage (25% + 7% x5 (per combo point))
1/5 Deadly Blow = 52% total AP damage (17% + 7% x5 (per combo point))

So a total of 8% total AP damage in difference between min and max of the skill. Deadly Blow is an ability you're only going to use at maximum twice every 10 seconds to dump your combo point stack.

5/5 Poisoning Weapon = 15% total AP damage every 2 seconds
1/5 Poisoning Weapon = 10% total AP damage every 2 seconds

So a total of 5% total AP damage in difference every 2 seconds between min and max. It's something which should be up continuously, so in the approximate 10 seconds you could be using Deadly Blow you're going to have 25% total AP damage done opposed to roughly maximum 16% perhaps 24% if you can squeeze in 3 Deadly Blows in 10 seconds instead. Either way the Poisoning Weapon is going to come out on top in terms of consistent damage.

In the Assassin's Guide on this forum they too prefer PW over DB.

As for rolling Cutter. I don't know ... I'm just very familiar with dungeoncontent over many games and completely gimping AoE output is never a good idea. Let's compare min and max to the situation in which you'll use it, 3 monsters and up.
3 mobs = 9% total AP damage per use difference between min and max
4 mobs = 12% total AP damage
5 mobs = 15% total AP damage
6 mobs = 18% total AP damage

That's like an extra 0cb Deadly Blow extra damage thrown in every use. It's not something you can ignore in how fast it would help you clear AoE packs in my opinion.


I'll post the DPS priority rotation which I believe rogues would be using, just to make sure we're on the same page:

1. Mark of Death (30 sec 10% damage buff every 2 minutes)
2. Moonlight Dance (110% AP)
3. Deadly Blow (dump combo points for 52-60% AP, approx every ~5 seconds)
4. Dual Strike (14% AP every 10 seconds to build up CP faster)
5. Double Attack (25% AP every 1 second)

Dark Illusion does seem like a good opener though for approximately 64% AP damage... But at this point removing a point from anywhere is going to be a loss of damage output. I'm personally not keen on gimping AoE damage capabilities. So I feel iffy about not keeping Rolling Blades maxed. It feels wrong
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#46 synesthetic

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:27 AM

Dark Illusion does seem like a good opener though for approximately 64% AP damage... But at this point removing a point from anywhere is going to be a loss of damage output. I'm personally not keen on gimping AoE damage capabilities. So I feel iffy about not keeping Rolling Blades maxed. It feels wrong

Then consider dropping Hiding to 1 to get Dark Illusion. Unless you have a non-combat reason for staying hidden all of the time, Dark Illusion would make up for the lack of mobility since it teleports you directly behind the target.
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#47 Anarch12911

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:38 AM

Then consider dropping Hiding to 1 to get Dark Illusion. Unless you have a non-combat reason for staying hidden all of the time, Dark Illusion would make up for the lack of mobility since it teleports you directly behind the target.


I dropped Dirty Plan in favour of Dark Illusion. Dirty Plan seems much more like a PvP oriented skill anyway.

http://ro2base.com/b...310543.22310543

Edited by Anarch12911, 28 April 2013 - 01:43 AM.

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#48 ShimHearts

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:04 AM

I dropped Dirty Plan in favour of Dark Illusion. Dirty Plan seems much more like a PvP oriented skill anyway.

http://ro2base.com/b...310543.22310543

Resetting your cooldowns and getting 5 cp instantly is extremely valuable for PvE, Dirty Plan is definitely a must have.
Just drop the point in hide, the 20% mspd won't do that much for you
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#49 Anarch12911

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 09:53 AM

Resetting your cooldowns and getting 5 cp instantly is extremely valuable for PvE, Dirty Plan is definitely a must have.
Just drop the point in hide, the 20% mspd won't do that much for you


I'm not certain I agree with the "extremely valuable" assesment, it'll give you a bit of burst damage every ~3,5 minute... but overall it'll be more of a damage boost than the 20% mspd*, agreed. I've a hard time not thinking about the utility side of things though... having to 'stealth' through a dungeon or past a pack of mobs at 60% speed or 80% will make a big difference. One is 33% faster than the other after all...

* 0,48% AP Damage/Sec to be precise. (Assuming you'll use a 5cp Moonlight Dance instead of a Dual Stab in your normal rotation (110 - 14 % / 200s ). So good for about the damage of an extra Moonlight Dance (110%) every 4 minutes. This under ideal circumstances... So instead of doing 12 MDs in 4 minutes you'll have done 13. Roughly a 2% overall increase to your DPS in a 4 minute fight, less in shorter fights.

It could be useful to do an urgent self-heal once per fight though...
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#50 ShimHearts

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 10:00 AM

I'm not certain I agree with the "extremely valuable" assesment, it'll give you a bit of burst damage every ~3,5 minute... but overall it'll be more of a damage boost than the 20% mspd*, agreed. I've a hard time not thinking about the utility side of things though... having to 'stealth' through a dungeon or past a pack of mobs at 60% speed or 80% will make a big difference. One is 33% faster than the other after all...

* 0,48% AP Damage/Sec to be precise. (Assuming you'll use a 5cp Moonlight Dance instead of a Dual Stab in your normal rotation (110 - 14 % / 200s ). So good for about the damage of an extra Moonlight Dance (110%) every 4 minutes. This under ideal circumstances... So instead of doing 12 MDs in 4 minutes you'll have done 13. Roughly a 2% overall increase to your DPS in a 4 minute fight, less in shorter fights.

It could be useful to do an urgent self-heal once per fight though...

Hmm. I'm assuming you've already tried the rogue class?
If you have, you should feel that dirty plan is one of the most useful skills in the game.
Numbers aside, if you've actually used dirty plan it's not only a life saver, but a good skill for PvP and etc.

But again it all comes down to preference, but I'm just saying i don't think it wise to neglect one of the rogue skills that I'm pretty sure is a necessity whether you're pvp or pve

and speed potions are usable in stealth as well, and if you're trying to go for any type of mobility at all, you should really go sin, because it's accepted that sins have extremely high mobility.
EDIT: And stealth is unlimited. There is honestly 0 point getting any more points in it for PvE since it lasts FOREVER, you never get aggroed, so in PvE terms, you'll just get places slower. And I'm pretty sure that's not what PvEers are really focused about lol.

Edited by ShimHearts, 28 April 2013 - 10:05 AM.

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