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Klyde's Rogue Guide [The Basics]


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#51 CeilDeAlta

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 10:05 AM

http://www.ro2base.c...310726.22310725

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#52 ShimHearts

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 10:19 AM

http://www.ro2base.c...310726.22310725

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Duel Stab is completely worthless to max.
It's a good skill to use when it's off of CD, but the only purpose is to get the guaranteed x2 combo points.

There is seriously no point in maxing stealth as a rogue, you gain very little from getting that movement speed back.

Also dagger throwing is a useful skill both pvp and pve wise, as a melee you'd want to pick up what little range you're provided with. I just don't see the driving force behind that skill build ^^;
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#53 CeilDeAlta

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 10:46 AM

No driving force.
Just a first shot from the dark.
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#54 Anarch12911

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 11:29 AM

you'll just get places slower. And I'm pretty sure that's not what PvEers are really focused about lol.


That is true.

It's just a fear pretty much because I play a lot of League of Legends and I know how big of a difference 40% slow or 20% slow is. The 40% slow to me makes it feel as if stealth is useless, because it's really a drag to use it then... and a rogue not being able to stealth properly, (numbers be damned), just doesn't feel right to me. :p_sick:

Edited by Anarch12911, 28 April 2013 - 11:34 AM.

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#55 ShimHearts

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:13 PM

No driving force.
Just a first shot from the dark.

well eh it's eh. But if you read around you can notice that most of the skills are pretty much necessities for rogues :) (LIKE DIRTYPLAN)

That is true.

It's just a fear pretty much because I play a lot of League of Legends and I know how big of a difference 40% slow or 20% slow is. The 40% slow to me makes it feel as if stealth is useless, because it's really a drag to use it then... and a rogue not being able to stealth properly, (numbers be damned), just doesn't feel right to me. :p_sick:

I'm an avid league of legends player as well, and yes being slowed like that is very gay in LoL, but in RO2, while stealthed, although slowed, you're pretty much invulnerable to mobs. Only AoEs or DoTs can reveal you, and no average mob in RO2 (to my knowledge) has anything like that unless you ENGAGE it in combat, which shouldn't happen unless you're unstealthed.
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#56 KIyde

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:52 AM

After a lot of research and thoughtful thinking I decided to make the following my rogue build:

http://ro2base.com/b...310543.22310543

(Don't mind the cards too much). Feedback is welcome. It's a very PvE focused build so I put just enough points in Hiding to make it usable (40% movement slow would've been too much)

Maxed out Rolling Cutter to have decent AoE output if the situation requires (raid or solo) as well as the compensate for the lack of meteor assault. I know that seemingly 1vs1 is the strongest damage output for rogues, but completely ignoring any AoE capability could do potentially much harm in certain situations.

5/5 Poisoning Weapon should do more damage output on a fight than maxing Deadly Blow.

EDIT: The only thing I might consider is moving points out of Rolling Cutter and Dirty Plan to put into Dual Strike (for a maximum of 3/5 because 4/5 only gives 1% AP more)


Heya dude,

First of all, I think the way you explained why you put the skill points in what you did is fantastic, and this is my personal feedback.

Now, the way you compared Poison to Deadly Blow is really accurate, however I think you're not taking in consideration Critical Hits. This game relies heavily on burst damage, both on PvE and PvP rather than DOT (Damage Over Time). I say this because in later instances, you're going to run against adds and mobs that need to be killed ASAP, that have countdown timers that if not killed fast enough, they'll wipe the party and/or raid. As a Rogue your job is to get rid of these, pronto.

What you mentioned on why you decided to max Rolling Cutter, although true I would advice heavily against it. First of all, yes if you combine it with Poison it can be awesome to poison all enemies around you, and kill them slowly. However, most of the adds you'll encounter don't have more than 6k HP until really laaaate raids, and most other classes that have better AoEs than you such as Knights, Warriors, Wizards, and Rangers will kill them a lot faster than the poison will. Plus, I'm positive you will kill them faster if you take them out 1 by 1 than all of them simultaneously.

Edit: Also, don't ignore dirty plan. Reading to your theory, if you want to do as much DPS as possible, it's a great way to do Mark of Death > Dirty Plan > [wait until Mark of Death runs out] > Mark of Death again, that OR use Gangster's Paradise in an emergency-like situation.

Although just for the sake of science, I'd suggest to stick with this build, and share your result once it has been fully tested!

Good luck.

Edited by KIyde, 29 April 2013 - 05:55 AM.

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#57 KIyde

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:58 AM

http://www.ro2base.c...310726.22310725

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Hello! What Shim said is pretty accurate. You don't need to max out Duel Stab since its only good for gaining 2 combo points. Throw Dagger is really useful for luring out enemies from aggro fields, seeing as Rogues have low defense and HP, it might be trouble to go head in these kind of situations.

Poisoning Weapon and Dirty Plan are also really useful, for reasons I explained in my guide~ so try to take a look into that.

Good luck!
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#58 Azullama

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 06:02 AM

is there a like button? cause this one's well made and I like it.
although there's a possibility of adding more contents. but this guide is great.
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#59 synesthetic

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 07:36 AM

That little green up-arrow on the right of each post.
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#60 UberWeak

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:31 PM

Thoughts? http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
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#61 ShimHearts

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:54 PM

Thoughts? http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

sacrificing the Mark of Gen. for poisoning weapon eh.. it's still a pretty cookie cutter build. It would definitely work, maybe a bit better for soloing, but generally partys will want the MoG maxed, because 2% flat crit rate is actually a lot.

I guess it's another one of those matter of preference kind of things, solo vs partys
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#62 Anarch12911

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:37 PM

Now, the way you compared Poison to Deadly Blow is really accurate, however I think you're not taking in consideration Critical Hits.


True, but often you'll find yourself skipping Deadly Blow because you've to spend your combo points on healing yourself instead. Let's not forget Deadly Blow is a combo point dump and does require 5 combo points to do maximum damage output, this is purely optimal and idealistic in practice, depending on the fight, I think people will often find they can't easily maintain the ideal of only dumping DB at 5 combo points. Poisoning Weapon does not require min/max perfection on timing and execution the DoT will simply tick wether you're having a hard time maintaining your perfect DPS rotation or not.

About Poisoning Weapon vs. Deadly Blow:
Thing is that 5% damage every 2 seconds is going to do you more favour than a rough 8%*1,5 (exagurated benefit of crit) bit of extra burst damage (from maxing 5/5 DB as opposed to 1/5 DB) as long as the mob is going to live close to 4-6 seconds or longer.

About killing adds fast and Rolling Cutter:
Now if we're talking having to kill adds fast then Rolling Cutter should do you more good as well ... the moment you got 3 or more mobs you're going to start bursting for 30%*1,5 per global cooldown + 45% every 2 seconds of the poison, basically letting you do ~70% AP damage per global cooldown. There isn't any other rogue ability that comes even close to that damage output. And this is only with 3 adds, it goes up with 22,5% damage/global cooldown per extra add. ... At 6 mobs you'll be looking at doing 135% damage per global cooldown (which is the most possible DPS of any of the rogue abilities)... which is why the Rolling Cutter description explains how the damage increases less after 6 mobs, because else the damage output would be like doing a double moonlight dance every global cooldown.

So if it's the rogues job to kill adds fast ... and if they're bunched up then Rolling Cutter is a necessity in my opinion. Even if they're not bunched up then you'll still kill them faster by preferring Poisoning Weapon over maxing Deadly Blow, as long as they take 4-6 or longer seconds to kill. Also think of the time in between when DB is on cooldown for 20 seconds... you'll be killing mobs much faster while building up comba points for DB when you max 5/5 Poisoning Weapon instead of when you don't. As pointed out at approximately 4-6 seconds or longer of life your 5/5 poisoning weapon will have outperformed 5/5 DB. So even if mobs would die faster than 4-6 seconds, you'll have increased damage output on all the other mobs you'll be killing while you wait to get 5 comba points again.

Often in MMOs it happens that classes complain about not being able to keep up in damage with other classes because they lack AoE. (Rogues in WoW were a good example of that, who got benched when it was AoE heavy dungeons, and who then luckily in the next expansion got their own strong AoE ability). It's never a good idea to gimp yourself out of being able to AoE. And the "effect drops depending on the number of targets when used on more than 6 enemies," should be a hint on how strong the ability is, if anything. (As the rough mathematics above show.) :p_idea:

Edited by Anarch12911, 29 April 2013 - 05:57 PM.

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#63 KIyde

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:56 PM

True, but often you'll find yourself skipping Deadly Blow because you've to spend your combo points on healing yourself instead. Let's not forget Deadly Blow is a combo point dump and does require 5 combo points to do maximum damage output, this is purely optimal and idealistic in practice, depending on the fight, I think people will often find they can't easily maintain the ideal of only dumping DB at 5 combo points. Poisoning Weapon does not require min/max perfection on timing and execution the DoT will simply tick wether you're having a hard time maintaining your perfect DPS rotation or not.


I see what you mean, but uh remember Gangster's Paradise has a 40 second cool down, at max level with epic equips that will reduce between 24% to 26% vigor that's 30 seconds. Again, I mentioned in my guide there are times I prefer Deadly Blow over Moonlight Dance.

About killing adds fast and Rolling Cutter:
Now if we're talking having to kill adds fast then Rolling Cutter should do you more good as well ... the moment you got 3 or more mobs you're going to start bursting for 30%*1,5 per global cooldown + 45% every 2 seconds of the poison, basically letting you do ~90% AP damage per global cooldown. There isn't any other rogue ability that comes even close to that damage output. And this is only with 3 adds, it goes up with 22,5% damage/global cooldown per extra add. ... At 6 mobs you'll be looking at doing 135% damage per global cooldown (which is the most possible DPS of any of the rogue abilities)... which is why the Rolling Cutter description explains how the damage increases less after 6 mobs, because else the damage output would be like doing a double moonlight dance every global cooldown.

So if it's the rogues job to kill adds fast ... and if they're bunched up then Rolling Cutter is a necessity in my opinion. Even if they're not bunched up then you'll still kill them faster by preferring Poisoning Weapon over maxing Deadly Blow, as long as they take 4-6 seconds to kill.

Often in MMOs it happens that classes complain about not being able to keep up in damage with other classes because they lack AoE. (Rogues in WoW were a good example of that, who got benched when it was AoE heavy dungeons, and who then luckily in the next expansion got their own strong AoE ability). It's never a good idea to gimp yourself out of being able to AoE. And the "effect drops depending on the number of targets when used on more than 6 enemies," should be a hint on how strong the ability is, if anything. (As the rough mathematics above show.) :p_idea:


You make a good point, but I guess it's one of those things that's purely preference. Also, every AoE of each class have the "effect drops depending on the number of targets when used on more than 6 enemies" I never played WoW or LoL so I wouldn't know~ :c

I do like the build though, when the game starts let me know how it goes! This is quite interesting and different from what I seen on other Rogues, be awesome if you shared it.

Cheers!
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#64 synesthetic

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 06:24 PM

With all of this AoE talk, I have to provide some input from a healer's perspective.

If you know you're going to be with an awesome tank who can handle a mob of 6+ all of the time with a decent healer, then go for it. I love being in those parties, but they were very rare for me.

From my personal experience though, the average tank can only handle around 3-4. Adding on one more monster to the group (and there's usually more than one) means I need to start using emergency skills and hope that at least one monster dies soon, because the tank is a leaky HP sponge and starts exceeding my rate of healing. In cases like that, I prefer it when all DPS is focused on single targets to reduce the mob back down to a manageable size as soon as possible.

To compound that, your healer's (or healers') ability may vary. The better the healer, the bigger and messier the mobs they can allow the tank and pullers to pull. And I've been in parties where a priest somehow has difficulty taking care of people against two monsters. Those were sad, sad days.
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#65 ShimHearts

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 08:39 PM

Often in MMOs it happens that classes complain about not being able to keep up in damage with other classes because they lack AoE. (Rogues in WoW were a good example of that, who got benched when it was AoE heavy dungeons, and who then luckily in the next expansion got their own strong AoE ability). It's never a good idea to gimp yourself out of being able to AoE. And the "effect drops depending on the number of targets when used on more than 6 enemies," should be a hint on how strong the ability is, if anything. (As the rough mathematics above show.) :p_idea:

I think you should keep in mind that this is a completely different game from WoW. It's a free to play, pretty underdeveloped game that honestly I think a lot of people would look at and pass up on.
It's nowhere near the level of WoW in that wow has a p2p community that sustains it with nerfs and buffs accordingly on a refular basis.
That being said, I guess if you're going for a 'top the dps meter every dungeon no matter what' than yeah the AoE should work fairly nicely
Although, as it's been said, I didn't find it efficient to AoE the mobs down, especially as a rogue. It was more, leave the AoE to the tank and ranged DPS, and single out the mobs that you think might be high priority, or just go in cutting order.
Hell I just kited the add from the first boss in Sea God around the boss himself (funny thing it was) lol.

tl;dr : AoE damage isn't the rogues main purpose, it should be doing single target damage and getting rid of that one mob that much quicker.

all that being said, I'm also interested in how your build would work out because, most of my knowledge is theoretical, and honestly I may be completely wrong.
But I don't think so :)


Oh and Klyde, sorry i've sort of been hawkeyeing your guide, i just enjoy this kinda thing i guess ^^;
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#66 KIyde

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:50 AM

Oh and Klyde, sorry i've sort of been hawkeyeing your guide, i just enjoy this kinda thing i guess ^^;


I don't mind at all haha, it's hard to keep up. At least you're giving great advice, so it's all good.
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#67 YellowYoshi

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:06 AM

I'm definitely going to be making a Rogue for my entry into RO2.

My question is though, what are your thoughts on professions? I'm highly considering Alchemist in order to keep up a high supply of potions for taking full advantage of Unstable Doping but I'm also wondering how helpful Artisan would be for the purposes of crafting your own armor as you go. What are your thoughts?
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#68 KIyde

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:31 AM

I'm definitely going to be making a Rogue for my entry into RO2.

My question is though, what are your thoughts on professions? I'm highly considering Alchemist in order to keep up a high supply of potions for taking full advantage of Unstable Doping but I'm also wondering how helpful Artisan would be for the purposes of crafting your own armor as you go. What are your thoughts?


Alchemist is great for Rogues, and Artisan is useful too specially if you're a solo player. Only con about Artisan is that after 50, unless you manage to find a few Epic Recipes, it's really hard to make money other than selling runes. While Alchemist, with Maestro Pot Recipes ( a lot easier to find than Epic Artisan recipes ) you will always be on demand~

Awesome thing about Artisan though is that they have the coolest Guardian, imo <3
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#69 Milouz77

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 03:59 AM

Hi guys and just ty for this guild... Help me so much.

I am lvl 50 and put 41/41 str/agi. Do u think i have to reset and get more str or this is useless ?

dont know what to do and this can have real impact in my damage.

EDIT : i just make a try, with 42 dex potion i up 4%crit and 2% dodge so i just feel agi is bad...

Edited by Milouz77, 09 May 2013 - 07:15 AM.

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#70 Alhoon

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:43 PM

Here's a couple of questions from someone totally new to the game (my rogue is level 30):

1) In your guide you say Agi/Crit is vital for Rogues, as do other guides that exist. But why? I get it that a stat which gives a chance to do 100% increased damage is not bad, but I don't see Rogues scaling with Crit any better than every other DPS class in this game. Meanwhile, Str/AP increases multiplicatively because of buffs like Unstable Doping and Adrenaline Rush.

2) I can't seem to figure out how to use Gangster's Paradise properly in party play. This might be a low level / not knowing boss abilities issue, but when I die it's usually going from 100% to dead in couple of seconds. Also seeing it requires combo points to work, it takes long amount of time to build enough, then use it and by that time I'm usually either fully healed by a healer ages ago or dead.

3) This is probably not specifically a rogue issue, but I'll post it here anyways. Is it normal that when I'm nowhere near top in threat meter, boss just turns to me and starts hitting me until I run away from melee range? Quite often when I die it's because I get hit by some AoE mechanic, which is completely my fault, which takes about half of my HP, and then boss turns on me and smacks me right in the face. Or vice versa.
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#71 TonberryKill

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:46 PM

Here's a couple of questions from someone totally new to the game (my rogue is level 30):

1) In your guide you say Agi/Crit is vital for Rogues, as do other guides that exist. But why? I get it that a stat which gives a chance to do 100% increased damage is not bad, but I don't see Rogues scaling with Crit any better than every other DPS class in this game. Meanwhile, Str/AP increases multiplicatively because of buffs like Unstable Doping and Adrenaline Rush.

2) I can't seem to figure out how to use Gangster's Paradise properly in party play. This might be a low level / not knowing boss abilities issue, but when I die it's usually going from 100% to dead in couple of seconds. Also seeing it requires combo points to work, it takes long amount of time to build enough, then use it and by that time I'm usually either fully healed by a healer ages ago or dead.

3) This is probably not specifically a rogue issue, but I'll post it here anyways. Is it normal that when I'm nowhere near top in threat meter, boss just turns to me and starts hitting me until I run away from melee range? Quite often when I die it's because I get hit by some AoE mechanic, which is completely my fault, which takes about half of my HP, and then boss turns on me and smacks me right in the face. Or vice versa.


1. I'm wondering the same about agi, I'm personally putting more points into str

2. I've been a rogue for like, 2h? But I'm guessing gangsters paradise is more useful when soloing. If you really need the combo points you could always use dirty plan first though :/ and I'm guessing you won't always be the healer's top focus, so I think it is useful even in parties

3. Well I'm not very experience in ro2 yet but if found "when bosses randomly changes target. Almost every boss does this" http://guidescroll.com/2013/05/ragnarok-online-2-threat-gain-and-taunt-guide/
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#72 KIyde

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 08:52 AM

Here's a couple of questions from someone totally new to the game (my rogue is level 30):

1) In your guide you say Agi/Crit is vital for Rogues, as do other guides that exist. But why? I get it that a stat which gives a chance to do 100% increased damage is not bad, but I don't see Rogues scaling with Crit any better than every other DPS class in this game. Meanwhile, Str/AP increases multiplicatively because of buffs like Unstable Doping and Adrenaline Rush.

2) I can't seem to figure out how to use Gangster's Paradise properly in party play. This might be a low level / not knowing boss abilities issue, but when I die it's usually going from 100% to dead in couple of seconds. Also seeing it requires combo points to work, it takes long amount of time to build enough, then use it and by that time I'm usually either fully healed by a healer ages ago or dead.

3) This is probably not specifically a rogue issue, but I'll post it here anyways. Is it normal that when I'm nowhere near top in threat meter, boss just turns to me and starts hitting me until I run away from melee range? Quite often when I die it's because I get hit by some AoE mechanic, which is completely my fault, which takes about half of my HP, and then boss turns on me and smacks me right in the face. Or vice versa.


1) Actually, every DPS class counts on Crits. I posted on my guide that when it comes down to it, it's all preference. You'll find Rogue builds that do either 50 str/20 agi or vice versa. I prefer Crit because of the burst, however I really don't think one is better than the other, although of course, that's just my own opinion.

2) I like to use Gangster's Paradise when I have about 40% HP. Never before, if not its possible that you'll die before you get fully healed, I also try to save it for after a battle, if I know my target will die soon, I just store my combo points and spam double attack until its dead, and then use it. If you're dying from bosses in one hit, then theres nothing that GP can do to help that, though.

3) Some bosses change targets, regardless of thread. AoEs hit ALL melee classes, if your thread gets too high, just slow down for a bit and let the tank gain thread back, although as I said, some bosses change target regardless.

Edited by KIyde, 10 May 2013 - 08:54 AM.

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#73 Scott

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 05:24 AM

Ok, so I'm newish. Playing Rogue, thinking about what to get.

I've seen the posts on Rolling Cutter, could anyone explain how it actually works? Skill descriptions are abhorrent in this. So Rolling Cutter is 13% attack on 6 enemies, but then it gets weaker up to 10? It just sounds really, really bad to be honest. Meteor Assault seems really terrible, so why would less damage over more enemies be any good at all? Is it that it has no cooldown?

This is what I currently have for skills at level 26.

Currently planning to get skills to level 1 until I have the base of all relevant ones, where I'll then increase as I level.

Edited by Scott, 12 May 2013 - 05:26 AM.

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#74 ShimHearts

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 05:15 PM

Ok, so I'm newish. Playing Rogue, thinking about what to get.

I've seen the posts on Rolling Cutter, could anyone explain how it actually works? Skill descriptions are abhorrent in this. So Rolling Cutter is 13% attack on 6 enemies, but then it gets weaker up to 10? It just sounds really, really bad to be honest. Meteor Assault seems really terrible, so why would less damage over more enemies be any good at all? Is it that it has no cooldown?

This is what I currently have for skills at level 26.

Currently planning to get skills to level 1 until I have the base of all relevant ones, where I'll then increase as I level.

just know that, as a 35 rogue, my rolling cutter only does like 40-50
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#75 Scott

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 07:00 PM

So it is terrible? The skills seem very hit and miss in game.
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