142 replies to this topic

[XxMetalFlamexX]

I don't mean to interrupt the old faith item debate but, I was wondering. I play CD a lot and I noticed that whenever there is a big battle going on in CD and I die, it seems that most times I disconnect. Now at first I assumed it was lag or whatever. But the more I played the more I noticed it didn't matter if I was lagging or not. And it seems as though if I'm an attacker and I get to the third crystal and die trying to take it, I disconnect everytime. This only occurs when I die, very rarely I'll disconnect while alive. Maybe this is a bug looking into or maybe my internet just sucks. Figured I'd share it anyways. It's frustrating to spend 25 minutes playing CD to disconnect literally 30-40 seconds before it ends and lose all my points and energy.

[irlalalo]

Now, let's go back to what you were trying to point out. If I took ONE item and put it up on the Item Mall and said it would never be sold again. Say we sell, 1000, for 1$ each, that's $1,000 worth! Not bad, right? Well, let's just say, a year later, for ease of math, half those people who bought the item, stop playing. This item isn't trade-able, but over the course of the year, new players come through the game, see the item, think it's "cool-beans" and want one too. But they can't, because it is never going to be sold again. So, over the course of that year, that item is exposed to 5,000 people would want to buy it. That's $5,000 I'm keeping away from ROSE, just for offering it again for a limited time. The item is still rare, because you can only have gotten it during that time period and between you have to wait a year to get it, IF we remember to release it again. These wings went for two years before we realized it.

This is talking sense. Argument supported by clear and easy to understand examples.

Do you know people would buy hundreds of dollars worth of your item mall.. to sell items to other players in order to make zuly just to buy those items.. And the only reason they are not rereleased is because you legally cant put them back out without another contract.. You guys could have easily monopolized on that factor of player motivation to own things like that... released a truly unique item here or there(I'm not saying every thing..just one or two items every once in a while)--either in game or through item mall(really wouldn't matter which way so long as it was really limited to a certain number of items in existence). And BANG--Let the money making begin.

This.. is talking nonsense. Argument weak and unsubstantiated. Examples clearly exaggerated.

And BANG--Let the money making begin.

I really like this line LOL. I talk like this too. When i have too much to drink... "the car goes BANG!, the bomb went BOOM! and the lights went POOFF! OH... AND LET THE MONEY MAKING BEGIN!

[Teus]

how come my santa set look 13 after patch, and now after the re-start you guys did it looks (0) :[

[Suns]

Nothing is really unique with you guys. If someone misses something in item mall its "don't worry, it will come out again." Not.. "I need to get it now or I might not get it at all".

I don't understand why you don't get how your marketplace is working(let alone the god-like hand you have over it). Do you know the faith items(even with the amount that has been duped) are considered super rare..because they are not coming back out-ever. Do you know people would buy hundreds of dollars worth of your item mall.. to sell items to other players in order to make zuly just to buy those items.. And the only reason they are not rereleased is because you legally cant put them back out without another contract.. You guys could have easily monopolized on that factor of player motivation to own things like that... released a truly unique item here or there(I'm not saying every thing..just one or two items every once in a while)--either in game or through item mall(really wouldn't matter which way so long as it was really limited to a certain number of items in existence). And BANG--Let the money making begin. Yes, we realize that new items take a while to make.. But there's always coming up with limited availability colors of the items too.

Instead, you release items... the first time there isn't too many into the market. Price goes up after it leaves item mall.. the second time it comes out it generally saturates the market and the price goes down..less people desire it.

I'm not the first to get upset over you guys re releasing stuff..

I have to say, NamirBarades' argument is very logical & makes a lot of sense. I agree with his/her/zher argument.
It sets a precedent for how others will view these "limited" items in the future. If they have the mentality that "unique"/"limited" items might be re-released in the future, they will be less likely to purchase said items. That could possibly hurt business in the future. At least that's how it works in other video games and the real world.

I'm glad NamirBarades is voicing his/her/zher opinion :]

I've read Leonis' replies. About the hypothetical scenario he proposed: I think that's where NamirBarades idea of a color change (or some other superficial, minute change) comes in. It's the same style, but slightly different from the original release. I imagine that superficial changes like that are easier to implement than new designs. Then if this newly colored set is released & labeled as limited, people could have more faith in its rarirty & be more likely to purchase it.

Edited by Suns, 23 April 2013 - 06:47 PM.

[JaneAusten]

I don't mean to interrupt the old faith item debate but, I was wondering. I play CD a lot and I noticed that whenever there is a big battle going on in CD and I die, it seems that most times I disconnect. Now at first I assumed it was lag or whatever. But the more I played the more I noticed it didn't matter if I was lagging or not. And it seems as though if I'm an attacker and I get to the third crystal and die trying to take it, I disconnect everytime. This only occurs when I die, very rarely I'll disconnect while alive. Maybe this is a bug looking into or maybe my internet just sucks. Figured I'd share it anyways. It's frustrating to spend 25 minutes playing CD to disconnect literally 30-40 seconds before it ends and lose all my points and energy.

It's not just you. Oh and have you noticed that you can't go through the Crystal anymore?

[Suns]

on a side note, anyone have pics of how the astarot wings of the elder & undaunted look on a character? I've never seen them before and would like to see their colors

[DestinyDeoxys]

Leo, have you ever thought about this? 95% of the players gathered around Junon Polis, I mean if a new player started at adventurer's plain and don't see anyone around, wouldn't they get discourage to play this game already?

And have you ever thought about asking for donation for ROSE?

Regarding the costumes being re-released once in awhile, why do you have to sell a certain item for only a limited time period if you say you want every new players to have a chance to buy every costume, why can't you just put everything on item mall tab, and when you release new costumes to the item mall, give those new costumes exp/drop rate bonus and make them account bound for a month?

Those tuxedo and formal sets, you just release them and let them to be vendable and tradable, those that would pay for the costumes can just use zulies to buy from shop, you could have make much more money from that if you leave it 1 month account bound, that way you earn money from the players that are willing to pay for it and you can make everyone happy at the end.

This game needs more players to make total revenue go up, it's not about making more money from the remaining players.

I talked to many people in this game, and they all say they are scared to invest further money on this game, because they all feel like this game doesn't really have a future with the tiny population and how the market is hyper inflated. I mean the market is around the high-level players, no one bother to make money from noobs, because they are just too poor compare to high level players. Only way to get on the same level (not avatar levels) as old players is by selling Item mall points for a quick zulie, but to be honest with the current state of ROSE, it does not really convince anyone to do it. I used to see plenty of people shouting in Junon to sell Item mall points, but these months, I see none (really zero). The inflation is really scaring away everyone. People used to put items at 9,999,999,999 just because they want people to leave offers instead of buying it right away, but guess what?
For this inflation reason, this price is no longer a digit as a symbol for people to leave offers, people are vending for that price for real.....

[XxMetalFlamexX]

on a side note, anyone have pics of how the astarot wings of the elder & undaunted look on a character? I've never seen them before and would like to see their colors

You can go to the item mall in game and press ctrl + right click to see what they look like on you

It's not just you. Oh and have you noticed that you can't go through the Crystal anymore?

Yes I noticed, but that was in the patch notes. It's not a bug. Although it does make CD a lot harder for defenders.

[claw68]

Game Arena dungeons no longer have a time limit in which to complete them. The current set of dungeons did not warrant the need to be placed under time restrictions (there are no objectives that have a sense of urgency), and the timers placed more emphasis on completing the dungeon as fast as you can (even though there was no reward for doing so) which detracted from participating in other aspects of the content (e.g. daily quests, exploring, etc). Now you can play through dungeons at a more casual rate, even with less experienced players and try out everything the dungeons have to offer content wise without getting stressed out about completing it in time or certain individuals dragging the group down.

makes sense now. because quest wants you to kill dungeon mobs while your teammates are rushing to end the dungeon. -.-

thank you Zurn and Genesis

I just hope that the collision box under the crystal doesn't work like the storage one because there are instances, due to position bug, that the character will be placed on the top of the collision box on the server side while on the client side, it looks fine. Sometimes, you have to walk so you can click the NPC for the server to synchronize the position variables. I hope that attackers don't have to walk in order to get close to crystal (server side) so melee players can attack it.

Also, with the collision box, they should give priority for queuing clerics to go to defender side than the attacker side.

For Nia, for us who just started playing last year, we should be given equal chance to grab those 'rare' items.

Edited by claw68, 23 April 2013 - 08:50 PM.

[xBlack]

anything new about Ballroom Event this year ?!

[maldini]

Don't let the description fool you, it apparently didn't update correctly. The '200 limit' should not be what you see, it should merely say it is a limited time availability. The last time these wings were put up, there was a limit, however this is not that same original release period.

The thing here is player will believe whatever you guys put in the description and will influence their decision to purchase it.
With your act to change the description as and when you love it... It definitely doesn't reflect well in your company image. In short, we can call it SCAMMING.
Seriously, it is very tiring to hear to your EXCUSES over and over again.
Will i spend any real money in this kind of company? The answer will be NO until you restore my confidence level back.

[MaxMan]

so way dont the faq for ballroom event dont work and no info given out abaut it,just say ball room even starts and thats it ? i tray enter the ballroom and as soon i get in it just trow me out agen O.o

[pdfisher]

can someone dumb it down a little for me? i still dont understand ._.

those items can not be used in GA anymore.

[borgahutt]

i also recently posted a topic about items rarity and such which didnt really get anywhere. yes the point that leonis made is kind of right BUT... you can look at it this way.

you say your taking $5k away from the company if you wasnt to re-release.
if you simply just didnt make loads of things from the item mall account bound then people would want to buy with lots of zuly if they didnt buy item mall points. i know that if you changed alot of items to tradeable it would increase your sales as people in game would want to buy them so item mall sellers would buy more points to sell. its a tricky topic to try to discuss with the 'company' but from a collector/players point of view namirbarades is correct. its nice to see rare items in the game that people desire to get. they want to spend billions to get it which they might want to get by selling item mall points. (for example faiths) but its boring seeing the same old costumes that everyone runs around in. theres no rarity that will stay rare as there will always be people that want things re-released and they know the constant fact it will come back around anyway. but i know that its about $$ as at the end of the day its a business to pay their employers to then make profit

[Genesis]

Item Mall by its very nature provides a potentially infinite supply (limited only by the player's available funds) of digital items of the same types and is incompatible with concepts like "rarity" and "uniqueness". This isn't even something specific to ROSE, it applies all any Free-To-Play game with a cash shop of some kind. To purchase anything from the Item Mall assuming the item will be "rare" is setting yourself up for some major disappointment down the road.

[Suns]

Item Mall by its very nature provides a potentially infinite supply (limited only by the player's available funds) of digital items of the same types and is incompatible with concepts like "rarity" and "uniqueness". This isn't even something specific to ROSE, it applies all any Free-To-Play game with a cash shop of some kind. To purchase anything from the Item Mall assuming the item will be "rare" is setting yourself up for some major disappointment down the road.

Which is why I think a lot of us are hoping more accurate descriptions will be placed on these items. With certain diction choices, it goes from "players assuming" to "company stating". Just saying, from a legal/rhetorical perspective. :]

[NamirBarades]

This.. is talking nonsense. Argument weak and unsubstantiated. Examples clearly exaggerated.

Okay, you want some made up numbers that make sense.


If they took ONE item and put it up on the item mall and said it would never be sold again.. Say they sell a thousand for 1.00 each. Thats $1,000. This item isn't trade-able(although, I will admit this would work 1000x better if it was something that was tradeable), but 5,000 new people see it(are there even 5,000 actively playing this game..) and want one. Well, they can't have the one item because its not tradeable(Again, I will admit it would work better with tradeable items). So ROSE can release 1 items, limited time only, in different colors from the original--We'll make these 1.00$ too, although maybe we should have factored in inflation. Well now there's a special color, only available to that group of people. They realize they will not get it if they don't get it then..so they buy item mall. Who really buys just 1.00 of item mall..So the 5,000 people who realized that there are some limited buys and if they don't get it when its offered, they wont get it at all..And there's $5,000 dollars going towards ROSE AND You kept your older players happy because you didn't use deceptive advertising when they were new to buying Item Mall. Heck, maybe some players taking a break would check the item mall frequently while they were not playing so they could not miss things rather then say---It'll be in item mall again, I can wait.

I guess I should be thankful that these wings are account bound and accept that Gravity likes deceptive advertising. At least, those wings are safe from the duping thats taking place--can't say the same thing about the faith items.

Item Mall by its very nature provides a potentially infinite supply (limited only by the player's available funds) of digital items of the same types and is incompatible with concepts like "rarity" and "uniqueness". This isn't even something specific to ROSE, it applies all any Free-To-Play game with a cash shop of some kind. To purchase anything from the Item Mall assuming the item will be "rare" is setting yourself up for some major disappointment down the road.

All the other games I play that have a cash-shop of some kind.. Do have items that are limited or only available during a certain time frame..and then are gone forever. This is the only game I play that doesn't do things like that..

For Nia, for us who just started playing last year, we should be given equal chance to grab those 'rare' items.

You should be given the chance to get items that are rare for the time period you are playing in. Incentive to keep playing..because you wouldn't want to miss something like that.

[jagz]

I've read Leonis' replies. About the hypothetical scenario he proposed: I think that's where NamirBarades idea of a color change (or some other superficial, minute change) comes in. It's the same style, but slightly different from the original release. I imagine that superficial changes like that are easier to implement than new designs. Then if this newly colored set is released & labeled as limited, people could have more faith in its rarirty & be more likely to purchase it.

Exactly. Re-Release things, but change the color or pattern! There, the user has the item they wanted, but the original owners are happy too. Like the pig-cart release.

[Suns]

Okay, you want some made up numbers that make sense.


If they took ONE item and put it up on the item mall and said it would never be sold again.. Say they sell a thousand for 1.00 each. Thats $1,000. This item isn't trade-able(although, I will admit this would work 1000x better if it was something that was tradeable), but 5,000 new people see it(are there even 5,000 actively playing this game..) and want one. Well, they can't have the one item because its not tradeable(Again, I will admit it would work better with tradeable items). So ROSE can release 1 items, limited time only, in different colors from the original--We'll make these 1.00$ too, although maybe we should have factored in inflation. Well now there's a special color, only available to that group of people. They realize they will not get it if they don't get it then..so they buy item mall. Who really buys just 1.00 of item mall..So the 5,000 people who realized that there are some limited buys and if they don't get it when its offered, they wont get it at all..And there's $5,000 dollars going towards ROSE AND You kept your older players happy because you didn't use deceptive advertising when they were new to buying Item Mall. Heck, maybe some players taking a break would check the item mall frequently while they were not playing so they could not miss things rather then say---It'll be in item mall again, I can wait.

I guess I should be thankful that these wings are account bound and accept that Gravity likes deceptive advertising. At least, those wings are safe from the duping thats taking place--can't say the same thing about the faith items.


All the other games I play that have a cash-shop of some kind.. Do have items that are limited or only available during a certain time frame..and then are gone forever. This is the only game I play that doesn't do things like that..



You should be given the chance to get items that are rare for the time period you are playing in. Incentive to keep playing..because you wouldn't want to miss something like that.

Well said, Namir :]
I agree with everything you said.

[claw68]

i rest my case

nia grown her fangs already :X

[Leonis]

XxMetalFlamexX, thank you for the reported account of things within the Crystal Defenders. I've been receiving reports regarding latency and disconnections, but its been difficult finding a trigger or common point that could be triggering it. Your account of events is more detailed and could help lead us to identifying the cause, again thank you.

how come my santa set look 13 after patch, and now after the re-start you guys did it looks (0) :[

Contact Customer Support and report what happened and they'll look in to it and help best they can.

About the hypothetical scenario he proposed: I think that's where NamirBarades idea of a color change (or some other superficial, minute change) comes in. It's the same style, but slightly different from the original release. I imagine that superficial changes like that are easier to implement than new designs. Then if this newly colored set is released & labeled as limited, people could have more faith in its rarirty & be more likely to purchase it.

You're right, it is less work than creating an entirely new costume or item. However, there are only so many colors in the rainbow, that it would still come back to the original item is what is ultimately desired.

There is a rarity and exclusivity that's being talked about here. Which in the respect of costumes can be both or either.

However, through all this discussion, it has given cause to consider how some items can retain their rarity, so players that very much like the knowledge of being able to have the exclusivity of obtaining it during its availability remains intact. It gives me something of a challenge to consider how I might be able to pull it off. I certainly don't want to take away any particular appearances of a costume piece because that's one of the major points of cool factor some have. A black cape just is not the same as a dark blue. But perhaps, as suggested, some subtle differences could be given that are enough to recognize it is a different item but close enough it doesn't ruin the appearance. To continue on the cape example, have the original 'black cape' be given a unique trim, or silver lining at the edge, and the 're-release' not. Whether something like this would be acceptable or not would be up to the 'collectors' out there, but it would be an attempt and compromise on our part in respect to the point of this discussion.

Leo, have you ever thought about this? 95% of the players gathered around Junon Polis, I mean if a new player started at adventurer's plain and don't see anyone around, wouldn't they get discourage to play this game already?

Many other games, new and old, don't really have a lot of people in the starting areas anymore. Some games have completely secluded starting areas for the sake of just teaching the new player the ropes. Most times, new players don't see these new costumes till they're already playing and well in to the world.

And have you ever thought about asking for donation for ROSE?

Sure, would you care to donate?

Regarding the costumes being re-released once in awhile, why do you have to sell a certain item for only a limited time period if you say you want every new players to have a chance to buy every costume, why can't you just put everything on item mall tab, and when you release new costumes to the item mall, give those new costumes exp/drop rate bonus and make them account bound for a month?

Because it is overwhelming and would result in pages and pages to browse through, it causes an odd result of losing interest. Perhaps from indecisiveness, but the result tends to be the same. In addition, as we've been talking, there's that period of exclusivity you have rights to, having gained it at the right moment to show you've been around for a while.

Those tuxedo and formal sets, you just release them and let them to be vendable and tradable, those that would pay for the costumes can just use zulies to buy from shop, you could have make much more money from that if you leave it 1 month account bound, that way you earn money from the players that are willing to pay for it and you can make everyone happy at the end.

The idea of being trade-able or account bound has been a long and probably will remain an ongoing discussion, behind what 'makes more money.' It sounds like you're suggesting we leave new items account bound for the first month but release trade for them after the month ends. It could work, it might not. There's always going to be a difference of opinion, but then again, we don't really share the immediate results either. Believe me, it is something that is an ongoing study and the decisions are made based on the reality of events and their outcomes.

This game needs more players to make total revenue go up, it's not about making more money from the remaining players.

I talked to many people in this game, and they all say they are scared to invest further money on this game, because they all feel like this game doesn't really have a future with the tiny population and how the market is hyper inflated. I mean the market is around the high-level players, no one bother to make money from noobs, because they are just too poor compare to high level players. Only way to get on the same level (not avatar levels) as old players is by selling Item mall points for a quick zulie, but to be honest with the current state of ROSE, it does not really convince anyone to do it. I used to see plenty of people shouting in Junon to sell Item mall points, but these months, I see none (really zero). The inflation is really scaring away everyone. People used to put items at 9,999,999,999 just because they want people to leave offers instead of buying it right away, but guess what?
For this inflation reason, this price is no longer a digit as a symbol for people to leave offers, people are vending for that price for real.....

To say, it is not the "only way" but to them, it is certainly the fastest, which much like today's day and age, instant gratification is an issue. "If I can't have it now, I don't want it anymore." Remember, ROSE is a game, meant to be played. And like any MMORPG, there is a time investment involved to create and build your character. Whether you are playing to be "you" in this wonderful fantasy world or an alter ego, you'll still need to build up to it.

I don't know who you may talk to, but ROSE has a strong community and as for the economy, it's going to take some time for us to implement features to help smooth it out. We are not a giant juggernaut of a development team, so we have to pick out what's important. Not only that, but if we kept switching gears to what's important, nothing would get done. So we need to also finish what's started.

As far as people who leave the items for offers, instead of an actual price, this is another future project we've got on the boards to help with the economy and marketplace hub. Its way too early to be talking about it now, but please believe me when I say, we're aware of it all.

borgahutt, I can appreciate your example, but one of the problems I personally have is that there's such a heavy attention on the 'fact that you have to buy from the Item Mall in order to make zulie' that this would be encouraging it. I don't actually like that people have that mentality, because it furthers the belief that ROSE is a 'pay to win' game, when that's not what we're trying to necessarily create.
It may not be really that noticeable, but the Item Mall has very little to do with combat influence these days. Costumes provide extra drop rates and experience, to help hasten the experience of leveling. The booster pills aren't allowed in PvP, because we want skill of game play to be the focus. Mounts were implemented as a convenient alternative to having to obtain a cart. The Game Arena Energy Reset reduces wait time, etc. etc.

Which is why I think a lot of us are hoping more accurate descriptions will be placed on these items. With certain diction choices, it goes from "players assuming" to "company stating". Just saying, from a legal/rhetorical perspective. :]

You know, those descriptions can be pretty troublesome, because 1) they're not all centralized and 2) they may have been made by someone who wasn't really thinking for the long haul. In either case, its difficult sometimes to catch them because we don't think about it most times. It is one of the reasons you might have noticed that a lot of the costumes no longer have descriptions anymore. I would love nothing more than to go through each item's description to update, remove or clarify some old things and misconceptions from how things are now, from what they might have been back in the day. But that would mean going through close to 18,000 items that could have descriptions in English and then have them also translated. On top of that, many descriptions aren't based on in-game ones and were put up separately with the Item Mall, which again, a few hundred items to go through, believe it or not.
Keeping up with them, with how long we've been around, is a job on its own.

NamirBarades, the only thing I want to point out regarding this is that color is a factor some have to buying something. So if a color is never offered again, it may not be purchased. The whole point of the costume system is to achieve the appearance you desire.

That being said, I'm not going to argue about this anymore because we're really not getting anywhere with it, other than in circles. There are more factors that could be added to the mix, but instead I would like to move forward and towards a more productive course.
So, let's try this. Start a fresh step forward. Would you care to encourage, suggest or request something we could produce as a truly limited item for the collectors?
Let's turn this in to a process of working with us, instead of a never ending argument. I'm not against giving it a try and see how things might work out.

We have some items that are truly unique, that will never be released again. Not because they were purchased, but because they were part of an era of ROSE Online we will never see again.
Now if you'd like to see something also just as uniquely created, what would you suggest? Let's give it a try and see how it works out. I'm game.

[dom33fr]

tl;dr

rose & videogames look like serious business!

[jagz]

So, let's try this. Start a fresh step forward. Would you care to encourage, suggest or request something we could produce as a truly limited item for the collectors?

It'll be re-released though. It's unfair to people who missed out remember?! Though IF you actually mean that, great!

[Leonis]

It'll be re-released though. It's unfair to people who missed out remember?! Though IF you actually mean that, great!

If we're going to go through with the idea of making something truly limited, it would be as suggested, a one time offer for that specific item. If we 're-release' the item, it would be a treatment like we gave to the Pig Cart, where it would be different through color or some form of appearance, but essentially the same item. So the original keeps its rarity and exclusivity, but the item is still able to be purchased at later dates. Additionally, we'll go with the additional idea of making the item fully trade-able to begin with, as it was suggested.

Now we just need to come up with what kind of item.

Ideas anyone?

[ryancmt]

You guys should make "Color Lens" where you can change the colors of characters' eyes just like the Salon/Hair Dye/Plastic Surgery Coupon.