108 replies to this topic

[CSTMS]

Well, thanks. I guess I killed someone doing her dailies...

[VanS3n]

Everybody was excited for WOE prior to the update but were disappointed at it after the release. Since not much end game content and WOE was supposed to keep everybody busy. I guess can't blame people from leaving. The bugfest after WOE update didn't help either.

As of now, the BP loss is the thing that killed WOE. Especially that Colo weapons seemed to be an important aspect of new raid content. People are not willing to loose their hard earn bp for an hr of WOE and be set back from obtaining needed colo equips to even participate in the new raid content.

The siege system also created a lot of rage.. and we all know a big majority of players came into ro2 due to the nostalgia of ro1. RO2 marketed itself as the predessesor of RO1 and the reason they pushed for WOE this early in game was due to that. But then again, WOE was a huge disappointment to the game and brand everybody was familiar with and caused a mass exodus.

A big majority of the server are still working for their full colo equips, and not all guilds are full colo equipped. After our first WOE, we actually discouraged our own guildmates from entering WOE map since we know they are saving bp. We only entered WOE map twice or thrice as a guild and that was only to check how much bp we are loosing and the last time was to check how much bp we get from mobs.

WP has announced releasing tier 2 colo and hasn't given more info on it. Most guys have poked around and the general inco they got is that tier 2 is straight bp too.. which means even some full colo guys won't go to WOE as they are saving bp for the incoming tier2.

Current WOE is counter-productive to small guilds.. less benefits and they are punished for participating due to severe bp loss. So unless you are in a big guild and full colo, WOE looks like it is only meant for those who can afford it.

[Duke1987]

Call Zanbee QQ

[Fold]

Quit flaming please. I'm gonna put a few things to rest here, especially since it seems our own CMs are clueless about a few things:

 

We have attempted multiple times to restrict our members from ganking others doing dailies. At the end of the day, it's PvP, on a PvP map. It is near IMPOSSIBLE to micro-manage 100 members in the WoE map, especially since there are so many conditions they could base their reason off of. "He hit me first!", "He started talking trash!". It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, it's a world PvP map with a hub to do dailies. Since people call this a WoW clone, this is the Wintergrasp/Tol'Barad of RO2. It is designed in such a manner to do dailies and to find an opportunity to gank people. This is the way it is structured, and you cannot blame our members for the way it is structured. Ironically, I remember the community asking for a World PVP channel, and this is exactly what they got. Funny how things turn out..

 

So moving on to other matters: Zanbee is under the impression that our Guild master, Klyde, quit over the "World PVP drama" that was occurring during the off-hours of WoE. This is an extremely ignorant thing to say, especially since you had direct contact with him regarding the reason he quit. He "quit" because your staff team removed our "Collision Rules" thread, despite it being completely on topic and following all the forum guidelines. Funny how he started playing again when it was put back up, right? We didn't do this for ourselves - we did this for the community to try to let them do dailies in a peaceful manner. Is it always gonna work? No - somebody, somewhere is going to gank you, and that's the whole point of the WoE map. You can take it to Gravity HQ, and they will give you the same response. This happens on EVERY MMO involving world PvP, and it should be no different here. The whole reason of the thread was to at least put a limit on the number of times ganking occured, not to prevent it from happening at all.

 

With all that being said, I 100% agree that BP shouldn't be deducted in the WoE map. It discourages people from being on the map, amongst other reasons.

 

Addendum: We have been attempting to do the developer's jobs and still getting hate for it. Putting a restriction on siege weapons in WoE, restricting our members from pvping on a pvp map. Why doesn't your dev team actually do something useful and fix these issues for us?

 

Thanks.

Edited by Fold, 29 July 2013 - 01:03 AM.

[Krohnos]

Pfft, I have pictures of you personally attacking lone people doing dailies.

 

 

 

 

These are 100% correct, especially the bolded parts.

I wanna see the screenshots, just to make sure you got my good side! feel free to send them to my inbox please ^^

[Moonreil]

 

 Why doesn't your dev team actually do something useful and fix these issues for us?

This please. 

[Mardets]

All in all, WoE map is still an open world pvp map. Many people seem to miss that point. The map was designed around player versus player, regardless of people doing dailies or not. When you're in the map for whatever reason, you're expected to be attacked. Play any MMO with open world pvp or atleast some kind of pvp map, it's always the same. Allowing ppl to do dailies in the map is up the the mercy of the attacker, that is a fact. If you deny that, then you're too ignorant beyond help. Lately, people have been taking that mercy for granted and have an "it's illegal to attack me, I'm doing dailies" attitude.

 

And another thing that I've noticed is the amount of complains in this game. It's seem like ppl can just complain about anything, up to the point of I'm not even sure if people are trolling or not. Many mmo with pvp such as TERA, Darkfall even have exps/golds as death penalties, but when people get ganked in those game, they just suck it up and move on. You don't see the playerbase in those game go complaining to the GM of the ganking guild, or the CM, or the forum. RO2 is a fighting game, can we atleast take competitive player interactions like real players? When Collision members get ganked, you don't see us crying about it. Quoted Zanbee "I don't see any (complaint) from Collision members."

[Gerrr]

All in all, WoE map is still an open world pvp map. Many people seem to miss that point. The map was designed around player versus player, regardless of people doing dailies or not. When you're in the map for whatever reason, you're expected to be attacked. Play any MMO with open world pvp or atleast some kind of pvp map, it's always the same. Allowing ppl to do dailies in the map is up the the mercy of the attacker, that is a fact. If you deny that, then you're too ignorant beyond help. Lately, people have been taking that mercy for granted and have an "it's illegal to attack me, I'm doing dailies" attitude.

 

And another thing that I've noticed is the amount of complains in this game. It's seem like ppl can just complain about anything, up to the point of I'm not even sure if people are trolling or not. Many mmo with pvp such as TERA, Darkfall even have exps/golds as death penalties, but when people get ganked in those game, they just suck it up and move on. You don't see the playerbase in those game go complaining to the GM of the ganking guild, or the CM, or the forum. RO2 is a fighting game, can we atleast take competitive player interactions like real players? When Collision members get ganked, you don't see us crying about it. Quoted Zanbee "I don't see any (complaint) from Collision members."

 

No, YOU'RE missing the point. Not only is iRO2 only like 2-3 months old, but it's also already dying. Why do you think Collision and Fairytail made up "don't attack until attacked" rules and guidelines for their members? Why do you think Collision tried to have a 'no siege weapons' WoE? Unlike people like yourself, some people actually do want this game to survive, so they'll take matters into their own hands to do so. Hardly any guilds can compete with Collision at the moment because there just aren't enough people in the game, so if they abuse their strength they could easily make a significant portion of the server quit. The higher ups in the guild know this so they've taken on the responsibility of trying to keep things enjoyable because the dev team is incompetent.

 

I mean really, what's the point of standing in the way of people trying to explore or do dailies? Wow you farmed that guy desperately trying to gather grass for a couple of hundred BP and now he's turned off of WoE forever and will think about quitting soon now that he has nothing to do. Good job, I'm sure the ego boost was worth it. I just hope that your ego is enough to keep the game alive in a few months when there's nobody left to farm and all your hours/money invested into this game has gone down the drain.

 

People like you who don't understand that the community is what keeps an MMORPG alive, and on a similar note that community is basically all iRO2 has left at the moment, are the ones probably doing 3v1 or 5v1 or whatever gang ups on the unfortunate people who wander into the map having a look around or doing dailies and are right now driving the game closer to its death.

 

You would have a point if iRO2 had millions of players and dozens of equally strong top guilds, or maybe if WoE wasn't actually so poorly designed that only full colo geared guilds have a chance or maybe we had classes that could solo several people if played skillfully (I miss being able to cloak whenever I want, and status effects...) compared to everything being a matter of brute force and numbers, but obviously that isn't the case. WoE is also meant to be the ultimate end game, so I hope you can see how discouraging people from doing it is a bad thing.

 

Also, there would be less people complaining if you lot didn't cry to the rest of your guild mates that you got killed when YOU ATTACKED FIRST then take advantage of their good will and have them religiously join in the fight for you. If you're going to have a 3 man ^_^ group farming people doing dailies then don't lie to your guild about being attacked first to get a zerg force when they retaliate with their own guildies. You're only making the entirety of Collision look bad when you do that, which is currently what is happening.

 

tl;dr: keep being friends and soon there'll be nobody you can be an ^_^ towards.

Edited by Gerrr, 29 July 2013 - 03:28 AM.

[Fold]

At the end of the day, the problem rests on the developer's shoulders. We've done all we can for this game. If they wanna watch it burn, our guild will be playing other MMOs and be on our merry way. We can't do everything for this game, and I'm sick of the guild getting flamed for doing the dev's job.

[Gerrr]

I hit quote instead of edit

Edited by Gerrr, 29 July 2013 - 03:27 AM.

[KIyde]

You know, I was actually going to write something in response but at this rate it doesn't even matter since its difficult for others to see us with eyes unclouded by hate. It's sad how we're viewed as tyrants because of the actions of less than 5% of our population and even as I am on the progress of fixing it, people expect results instantly.

 

Is it August 27th yet? Boo.

 

Edit P.S. Also, Fold just told me what happened with Fairytail and Zanbee. All I can say is... lol.

Edited by KIyde, 29 July 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[Alvana]

Your pen just spoke to you yo! I can hear it from here.

[ShotsFired]

Needs.  More.  Klyde.  Drawings.

[gundamexia28]

Klyde, as I have already told you, I don't hate you.  I don't hate your guild.  This is a GAME.

[Billeh]

I'm not even gonna bother with the guild drama, so addressing the topic at hand I agree people should have never been penalized for participating in a TEST SEASON of WoE. You can't expect people to want to go on the map if they're penalized for it and anyone who's taken a look during WoE hours knows that's exactly what's happening. People just aren't bothering anymore. You tried some weird percentage, you tried some flat rate, the community just doesn't like it. We never needed BP to encourage people to WoE in RO1 and at this point all it's done in RO2's version of WoE is discourage people.

Since people aren't bothering anymore, balance isn't being tested. The new prices for Siege Weapons aren't being tested, the HP for the Doors isn't being tested and most importantly the effect each of the buffs give isn't being tested for balance. The bloody "Test Season" is nearly over and not much testing has been done at all. None of you should be happy about this.

[LuBuFengXian]

Klyde, as I have already told you, I don't hate you.  I don't hate your guild.  This is a GAME.

 

My opinion on the matter? The devs failed us, Collision benefited from it, that's great and all, I'm done here, fat and useless, FF14, etc etc.

 

GIRUGAMESHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Mardets]

No, YOU'RE missing the point. Not only is iRO2 only like 2-3 months old, but it's also already dying. Why do you think Collision and Fairytail made up "don't attack until attacked" rules and guidelines for their members? Why do you think Collision tried to have a 'no siege weapons' WoE? Unlike people like yourself, some people actually do want this game to survive, so they'll take matters into their own hands to do so. Hardly any guilds can compete with Collision at the moment because there just aren't enough people in the game, so if they abuse their strength they could easily make a significant portion of the server quit. The higher ups in the guild know this so they've taken on the responsibility of trying to keep things enjoyable because the dev team is incompetent.

 

I mean really, what's the point of standing in the way of people trying to explore or do dailies? Wow you farmed that guy desperately trying to gather grass for a couple of hundred BP and now he's turned off of WoE forever and will think about quitting soon now that he has nothing to do. Good job, I'm sure the ego boost was worth it. I just hope that your ego is enough to keep the game alive in a few months when there's nobody left to farm and all your hours/money invested into this game has gone down the drain.

 

People like you who don't understand that the community is what keeps an MMORPG alive, and on a similar note that community is basically all iRO2 has left at the moment, are the ones probably doing 3v1 or 5v1 or whatever gang ups on the unfortunate people who wander into the map having a look around or doing dailies and are right now driving the game closer to its death.

 

You would have a point if iRO2 had millions of players and dozens of equally strong top guilds, or maybe if WoE wasn't actually so poorly designed that only full colo geared guilds have a chance or maybe we had classes that could solo several people if played skillfully (I miss being able to cloak whenever I want, and status effects...) compared to everything being a matter of brute force and numbers, but obviously that isn't the case. WoE is also meant to be the ultimate end game, so I hope you can see how discouraging people from doing it is a bad thing.

 

Also, there would be less people complaining if you lot didn't cry to the rest of your guild mates that you got killed when YOU ATTACKED FIRST then take advantage of their good will and have them religiously join in the fight for you. If you're going to have a 3 man ^_^ group farming people doing dailies then don't lie to your guild about being attacked first to get a zerg force when they retaliate with their own guildies. You're only making the entirety of Collision look bad when you do that, which is currently what is happening.

 

tl;dr: keep being friends and soon there'll be nobody you can be an ^_^ towards.

Gerr, I see you quoted me, then I read your post, and I'm like... what? No seriously, what?

 

Should I be more clear of what I said? I said that WoE is an open world pvp map. No matter what it's still free for all. We can't go to each of our player saying, "you, you are not allowed to be in that map, or kill anyone in it." We put up rules to encourage smaller guilds to do dailies, and letting people know that you're good "as long as you make us know." Like you said, we put up the rules not because we have to, but because we feel obligated to. But what do we get back? Not a single token of appreciation, but rather the expectation that our leaders have to keep everyone in check, the expectation that it is our job to keep the game alive. And by the end of the day, we are viewed as the tyrant in the game, for something nice we were trying to do for the community, while the rest of you guys sit back and play the innocent game and call us out whenever we did something wrong..

 

What's make it funny is that when we first put up the rules, people flame it, trolled it, shat on it. And when they go in the game, they still expect us to abide by the rules. Maybe if the rules we put up were taken serious by the community in the first place... thing could have been different.

 

Another thing, I'm fairly certain that you've mistaken me for someone else in the game. I don't frequence the WoE map as much as my guildmates do, but from what I've seen, we still let people do dailies, we don't "farmed that guy desperately trying to gather grass for a couple of hundred BP." We put up fights for people who look for fights. Don't put that we gang 3v1 5v1 on grass gatherer on us. Granted there will be several instances where opposite guilds engaging will lead up to fights, but don't put all the blames on us. Don't say we're always the one whom initate the fight, there are always 2 sides to a story.  As far as i know, it is 3 of Fairy Tails members that pop out of stealth and attacked Alvana when they thought he was alone in the map yesterday. I'm sick of you guys playing your innocent games and put the blame on us whenever you can. 

Edited by Mardets, 29 July 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[XionArcadia]

 

My opinion on the matter? The devs failed us, Collision benefited from it, that's great and all, I'm done here, fat and useless, FF14, etc etc.

 

GIRUGAMESHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

Ill see you in Eorzea!

[XionArcadia]

Gerr, I see you quoted me, then I read your post, and I'm like... what? No seriously, what?

 

Should I be more clear of what I said? I said that WoE is an open world pvp map. No matter what it's still free for all. We can't go to each of our player saying, "you, you are not allowed to be in that map, or kill anyone in it." We put up rules to encourage smaller guilds to do dailies, and letting people know that you're good "as long as you make us know." Like you said, we put up the rules not because we have to, but because we feel obligated to. But what do we get back? Not a single token of appreciation, but rather the expectation that our leaders have to keep everyone in check, the expectation that it is our job to keep the game alive. And by the end of the day, we are viewed as the tyrant in the game, for something nice we were trying to do for the community, while the rest of you guys sit back and play the innocent game and call us out whenever we did something wrong..

 

What's make it funny is that when we first put up the rules, people flame it, trolled it, shat on it. And when they go in the game, they still expect us to abide by the rules. Maybe if the rules we put up were taken serious by the community in the first place... thing could have been different.

 

Another thing, I'm fairly certain that you've mistaken me for someone else in the game. I don't frequence the WoE map as much as my guildmates do, but from what I've seen, we still let people do dailies, we don't "farmed that guy desperately trying to gather grass for a couple of hundred BP." We put up fights for people who look for fights. Don't put that we gang 3v1 5v1 on grass gatherer on us. Granted there will be several instances where opposite guilds engaging will lead up to fights, but don't put all the blames on us. Don't say we're always the one whom initate the fight, there are always 2 sides to a story.  As far as i know, it is 3 of Fairy Tails members that pop out of stealth and attacked Alvana when they thought he was alone in the map yesterday. I'm sick of you guys playing your innocent games and put the blame on us whenever you can. 

 

Seems more like you put up rules because not many people were falling into your BP trap. Yep, we surely appreciate it. You must really think people believe all the crap you guys post AFTER not holding it to ALL your members. You don't have us to blame, you have your 5% that you do nothing about. Btw I am sure it is more than 5%.
 

[9632130515120055620]

I think we can just agree on one thing: PvE dailies on a PvP map is dumb as hell.

[miton]

They made PvE dailies on the map to encourage people that aren't PvP minded to go to the map. If they were not there the only people that would come to the map are those trying to PvP. It does not make sense to think you should be able to do the dailies without interference when their entire purpose is to get you ganked.

[Fuumaki]

Some people have obviously never played WoW, where you could be camped trying to do quests or enter dungeons.

 

Best options are either wait to do it later, or come back with more friends.

[AhinaReyoh]

I think this thread has gotten rather sidetracked with the debate regarding dailies and guild drama. The BP loss from getting ganked here or there doing dailies isn't going to be enough to worry about, unless you get involved in a group-vs-group fight. If you're just going in to collect grass, you might die here-or-there to Rangers hiding on the map, but then you just go away and come back later and the total loss is easily remade in the first round of Colosseum.

 

Where the BP loss is really scaring people away is in actual WoE participation. Unlike dailies, you're not just going to die a couple times and be done; WoE means dying a lot and thus a lot of BP loss if you put in the effort to fight. Myself I haven't even given any thought of trying to participate in WoE because I know it'll be a hefty net loss of BP, so I'd rather just spare my points for tier2 Colosseum gear. And then after that who knows if they'll make tier 3 gears that cost even more BP, why risk losing a good chunk of it by participating in WoE unless you're already in a guild that has established themselves there.

[Swamps]

i'm hoping that WP will make the currency that is needed to buy WoE gear, the daily GuildMedal reward. This would lead to a more active WoE map. Those who want to have the best bonusses for PvP on their equips will need to go to the WoE map at the risk of being attacked. If players dont want to pvp but want equivalent gear they can just participate in the next dungeon ( AoD gear has about the same stats as WoE gear ).

This would also make everyone stop crying about "oh no i loose 50 Bp when i die". Because after you get your needed Colo parts, theres just no more stuff that you "need" to buy with them! Sure you can get some extra items from it, but its not necessary anymore.

(But yea i realize people would just cry about beeing killed on a PVP map)

 

EDIT:

I also think that the rewards for holding the Castle should be more attractive, so that it is more wanted to hold it. Maybe some special Costume with stats, or something?! Ofc only for the time the Guild owns the castle.

Oh yea and also reduce the siege equipment prices so attackers can afford them !

Edited by Swamps, 29 July 2013 - 04:42 PM.

[VModSushi]

There are a few things I need to discuss regarding this thread. First off, leave guilds out of this discussion. This was not aimed at one guild or even one person. They are suggesting that the BP Penalty be removed. Simple as that. Second, while we are disallowing guild drama, scenarios are allowed. But keep it civil. Third, if you have discussion of a game that is not in the WarpPortal family, please direct your browser to our Off-Topic section or the forums the games you are discussing. While some of us also play them, that is not what this forum is for.

 

To end my warning, please remember to respect each other. There are other people on the other side of these forum names. Remember they they get offended just as you do. Treat others as you would want to be treated. Unless you like being harassed and called names...? I hope not. So put a smile on that face and keep it civil everyone.

Edited by VolunteerMod11, 29 July 2013 - 06:56 PM.