105 replies to this topic

[Feuer]

exactly, we sacrifice alot for better buffs, but some people seem to not understand that all they see is "they got good buffs buuuhuu, remove charm!", they dont see Everything we sacrifice.

 

def,

mdef,

AP.

crit,

Dodge,

crit dmg reduce

 

and so on...

 

1. Stop trolling and flaming to defend your argument, it's not flattering.

 

2. I referring to fixing a recalculation issue between clients, not nerfing charm. If you knew how to properly understand English grammar [judging by your posts you don't] you would have understood what I was talking about instead of only reading the words [reduce, lower, cha, buffs] etc and making up your own understanding while simultaneously putting words in my mouth, and then being a jerk. 

 

Back on point, the cross client buffing set up should probly just be set to a poll, keep it, or not. However the scaling [super high stats on some random pieces] are inevitably going to be lowered. The same would be done if it was something like a ring that gave 80 con or a wing that gave 40% mp cost reduction. 

 

 

How is it unfair for me to be fighting those mobs with a wand, whatever power that wand gets from my int and self-buffs, and my ability to heal myself to keep my pixels "alive" :3 ?

 

You shouldn't stand a chance against a mob that is 60% higher level + 60% stronger then you. It should 1 shot you and laugh at your limp body. It's broken,. 

 

Edited by Feuer, 27 September 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[siamore]

 

1. Stop trolling and flaming to defend your argument, it's not flattering.

 

2. I referring to fixing a recalculation issue between clients, not nerfing charm. If you knew how to properly understand English grammar [judging by your posts you don't] you would have understood what I was talking about instead of only reading the words [reduce, lower, cha, buffs] etc and making up your own understanding while simultaneously putting words in my mouth, and then being a jerk. 

 

Back on point, the cross client buffing set up should probly just be set to a poll, keep it, or not. However the scaling [super high stats on some random pieces] are inevitably going to be lowered. The same would be done if it was something like a ring that gave 80 con or a wing that gave 40% mp cost reduction. 

 

 

 

You shouldn't stand a chance against a mob that is 60% higher level + 60% stronger then you. It should 1 shot you and laugh at your limp body. It's broken,. 

 

since i tell how it is, im trolling?

 

you really dont like people talking back to you.

[Icii]

So, in my opinion they should bring down the CHA stats on items to the same level as the other stats. Example: Highest INT mask i had, had 21 INT + 20 INT in sub stats. Do the same to the Heart Frame Glasses (21 CHA + 20 CHA sub stat)
That would mean lowering the sub stat CHA from 30 to 20. 

 

If we are going to use CHA as a "main stat", CHA should also be treated as one then too.

[Nifa]

sorry but i got no clue what you ranting about, i told you im a pure support with charm, NOTHING about INT.

 

but INT ADDS: AP, BUFFS (low), MANA, mdef etc...

 

while CHARM: BUFF AND HEAL only

 

why you calculate freaking int/charm when im telling you im a pure support as pure charm, means im "only charm at max stats". because i prefer on buffing and healing, and i sacrificed def, mana, ap etc.... but i dont care about that matter, but seeing you guys who dont even got a pure support charm cleric Writing rants like this, makes me wonder you guys really got no clue what u talk about.

 

We got weak def, we got low hp, we got low damage, we got low mostly only high we got is buff and heals as we relying on, and you want to destroy that too? i really cant understand you.

I doubt you're going for a 400 cha rest into whatever other stat except int cleric. Int does still affect buffs. Now as we well know, buffs affect stats. AP buff increases AP. Cha->higher AP buff->AP, Int->lower AP buff->AP. If you really wanted to, you could find almost an exact balance such that Cha->AP buff->AP = Int/Cha->AP buff->AP = Int->AP buff->AP.

 

exactly, we sacrifice alot for better buffs, but some people seem to not understand that all they see is "they got good buffs buuuhuu, remove charm!", they dont see Everything we sacrifice.

 

def,

mdef,

AP.

crit,

Dodge,

crit dmg reduce

 

and so on...

 

Nobody is saying remove charm. More like lower the charm stats on mask items/subs, but especially the masks. As of now, you can run around with clean 60 cha glasses and have basically the same, if not a better distribution, of stats. With such high cha masks/subs, you really don't sacrifice as much as you should be sacrificing.

 

 

came across this thread .... anyyways

I have a full charm cleric have 1050 charm in buffing gear when fully buffed in it 4.3k defence

when in fighting gear charm goes back to 917 but with 6.4k def but absolutely no attack power for killing or anything

cleric OP no way -.- as intention by devs im sure clerics aware of mana absorption well if you have 10k mp then your shield will stop 5k of dmg and defence isn't to bad but clerics need to rely purely on it to survive as to NO ATTACK POWER

in fighting gear 6.3k def 917 charm BUT only 1k ap with a refine +15 unique wep as also support  clerics were allways designed to sit in the back of a party buff and heal etc...... sit there and leech exp to lvl ....... without charm, buffs and heals become weak .... then the party also becomes weak so then everything would be under powered and you would be sitting there crying about how long it takes to level..

 

Andyp23 said he had 6.4k def at 917cha. That is still a good amount of def for very powerful heals. With near max cha in fighting gear, I would expect something more like 4-5k def. like a katars raider. They have low def and rely on dodge, full cha cleric has low def and relies on heals  Very nice heals but very squishy. 

[siamore]

 

I doubt you're going for a 400 cha rest into whatever other stat except int cleric. Int does still affect buffs. Now as we well know, buffs affect stats. AP buff increases AP. Cha->higher AP buff->AP, Int->lower AP buff->AP. If you really wanted to, you could find almost an exact balance such that Cha->AP buff->AP = Int/Cha->AP buff->AP = Int->AP buff->AP.

 

 

Nobody is saying remove charm. More like lower the charm stats on mask items/subs, but especially the masks. As of now, you can run around with clean 60 cha glasses and have basically the same, if not a better distribution, of stats. With such high cha masks/subs, you really don't sacrifice as much as you should be sacrificing.

 

 

 

Andyp23 said he had 6.4k def at 917cha. That is still a good amount of def for very powerful heals. With near max cha in fighting gear, I would expect something more like 4-5k def. like a katars raider. They have low def and rely on dodge, full cha cleric has low def and relies on heals  Very nice heals but very squishy. 

 

917 cha is not pure cha and thats hwat im talking about.

 

1084 charm is max, and thats what im talking about

[Phish]

88 muse, with standard gear, in OT fighting 148+ mobs. This, should not be occuring in a game like ROSE. 

 

I see the scaling down in power for balance as good, however there needs to be a REAL impact that rejects players fighting mobs with such huge level gaps. This doesn't only occur for clerics either. The tie in I see is that losing ~200 cha from not being able to "cross client buffset" is really not that big of a deal. People complaining about a 1% difference in stats that Everyone~ loses is a global impact but everyone end up on the same field still. 

 

Seeing as this issue which I assume is being looked into for a fix judging by the posts from the staff, it affects clerics, specifically buff clerics which everyone relies on for power. So a reduction in the amount [not the ability to] buff affects all classes that receive the buff, it fixes it, and keeps everyone on the receiving end of the buff on the same level. It shouldn't be an issue technically, but there are people who will complain about their numbers going down, even when everyone + every class stats all go down to match. 

 

 

This isn't an issue with charm so much as a combination of other factors (mainly monsters being weak). I don't want to derail the topic but I want to post another discussion regarding it.

[Clockwyrk]

Just as a sidenote... I was killing mammoths, penguins and illusion ghosts on Luna before I even thought of going to OT (which I did, for the first time, at level 86).  Illusion ghosts eat your buffs, too. T^T

 

If you are talking about monster power-scaling, well... it's across the board, not just OT.

 

I'm happy to provide more screenshots (though I'm also higher in level now, so the impact will probably be less impressive).

 

--

Edited by Clockwyrk, 28 September 2013 - 12:11 AM.

[jerremy]

917 cha is not pure cha and thats hwat im talking about.

 

1084 charm is max, and thats what im talking about

I'm sorry but if you're going to fight in 1084 cha gear, then you really deserve to be killed over and over again.

[Aldrine]

Lowering charm will affect most classes and they will basically all be on the same boat with buffed stats lowered. But who really gains something from this? I think its the clerics with more int. why? Because their buffs wont suck as much compared to a high charm cleric anymore. They have more to gain compared to the great loss for max charm clerics. How is that balancing. How about lowering int's effect on buffs and heal even more so they have equivalent loss "int effect lowered - max charm stats lowered". Then you're back to square one again Just as it is now.

[Zurn]

No one gains, which is kind of the point that Feuer is making it lowers the over all impact and reduces the ability to kill things that are that much higher level than you. Which really should not be possible without the help of a party.

[Aldrine]

Its true you shouldnt be able to kill mobs that are higher than your level. But i am talking about pvp. Clerics are hard enough to kill now. Lowering charm stats will make other fighting classes weaker. But no loss for the int clerics since their passives are def = int and block = dex.

Edited by Aldrine, 28 September 2013 - 12:51 PM.

[Phish]

It wouldn't make clerics harder to kill as everyone including themselves would have slightly lower stats from the lowered charm buffs. Also, heals would potentially be slightly weaker also. 

[Aldrine]

So you guys are back to square one. Slightly lower stats = slightly lower ap vs the stats now and the ap now. So whats the point of this thread then. Why bother changing them if the end result will be the same? Why not just leave it alone.

[Phish]

Thats what is so controversial about it.

[Aldrine]

So in the end its all about who has more influence on the people that will/ not be implementing the changes

[Genesis]

Any change we make to the game must consider both PvP and PvM, there's no taking sides here.

Edited by Genesis, 28 September 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[kwayan19]

this isn't really a major concern~

[Clockwyrk]

I agree with Kwayan.  And that picture was posted more to inspire people to know that their characters can be as tough as they want to make them - and they can all do it with stuff acquired ingame, with a bit of work, and maybe some perspiration at the refinery. <3

 

I'm not just blasting those things without taking damage (usually 300 - 800 pts per hit), you know.  I'm just fast at healing myself and I'm not afraid of a healthy challenge.

 

Miruchi is now level 101 and working on her 2nd job quest.

[Feuer]

This isn't an issue with charm so much as a combination of other factors (mainly monsters being weak). I don't want to derail the topic but I want to post another discussion regarding it.

appreciate that ill join it soon as i notice it

[claw68]

I do agree to the original post.

 

Some max CHA items wasn't rescaled to what it was vs. what it is right now.  In fact, other items was not rescaled for the skill update [e.g. the recently fixed Supdo shield, et al]. I do believe they should check the items database for the stat values including substat's max values and the CHA pinnacle should be set lower than what it is since it is more potent than of INT by 1:3.

Edited by claw68, 29 September 2013 - 09:56 PM.

[Bendersmom]

Leave the cleric alone at this point.  It was changed the most in the skill update and has been modified the most already.  Having max charm is great and all but it is hard to farm or join CD as a max charm cleric and survive.  There are so many other issues to be addressed that are more important.  How about the xbow scout having super high dex and def?  How about the fact that crafters have nothing to craft?  How about the fact that Shroon has gone AWOL and should be punished for being gone without leave?  How about the fact that anytime you want to try to level somewhere good it is filled with botters?  How about the fact that a lot of the dupers are back in the game and what a coincidence, the servers have been under attack.  

 

The charm of clerics is certainly not worth 4 pages on the forums.  Let the clerics be for a bit then see how things go.  Stop freaking changing everything since most people's free resets have run out.

[Feuer]

^ Mom, i think they were reinstated, I'm not 100% but one of my characters has more time on the freeset then I remember it having. 

[Bendersmom]

Yeah mine keeps changing, 10 hours, 12 hours, 8 hours.  But that was not the point. 

[siamore]

I do agree to the original post.

 

Some max CHA items wasn't rescaled to what it was vs. what it is right now.  In fact, other items was not rescaled for the skill update [e.g. the recently fixed Supdo shield, et al]. I do believe they should check the items database for the stat values including substat's max values and the CHA pinnacle should be set lower than what it is since it is more potent than of INT by 1:3.

 

the funny thing is, Always those who dont "play" cleric as their first roll who keep asking for Changes, i do Believe asking for this just make people quitting cleric after all its no reason to change anything, pure charm cleric is far from strong, and scaling the charm Equipments just makes them even more weak then what they already are.

[claw68]

You can buff with Full charm gears, After you buff all of them, you switch to your tanking/fighting gears to fight. Even after you switched gears, your allies can still have the buff effect of the full charm gears.

 

Bendersmom, Sorry for the specific "Int" example wasn't meant to target the muse line I merely used it as an example. But mind you, you can build a "MAX Charm item equipped champ" which can buff high Def, STR, HP, Atk Buff regardless of the build which has something to do with the MAX item substat for Charm.

 

Siamore, you can express your opinion and not being a complete arse at the same time.

Edited by claw68, 30 September 2013 - 07:34 PM.