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#1 Heimdallr

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:46 PM

I have seen many questions, as well as asked directly, about what we are planning to do about Ragnarok and the various Renewal stuff and WoE things. Obviously right now is not the most glowing time in their memory for Ragnarok, much of it is due to massive revampling that has gone on, and some of it very counter to what you used to find fun. So I want to let you know what to expect of our localization team here in the next month.

1. We are going to make a subforum strictly about feedback of very specific topics, which I will make topics to post in before opening, like each of the 3rd classes, WoE issues, specific game systems.
2. We are going to fix all the reported bugs first of course (a few more to fix for next week).
3. Likely we are going to have to do some short term "event" with WoE, as right now it isn't fun to do WoE, and to leave it in its current state serves a purpose only to a very small group. I'm going to take some of the ideas of "event" WoEs in place of the wide open WoE as it is now, to see if we can't still have fun with WoE, while still getting stuff fixed in the mean time.

Right now we have the eyes and ears of the devs and they really want to know why iRO isn't responding as well as other versions did to the changes, heheh lots of feedback going out on that one. And most importantly they want to work with us closer than I can ever remember to make it better for not only new users but for our old veterans who are tired, or have been waiting in the fringes for a great time to come back. Over the next 2 weeks more and more of what we are gathering and doing will be apparent, but I wanted to let you know so you are aware that we aren't just going to "float it as is" because I don't think we are quite where I or you want to be with Renewal quite yet.

We are a small team, and the amount of feedback we are already working with is HUGE, the amount that will come in when we open the floodgates is likely to multiply that, so we can not get it processed and fixed as fast as you would or we would like, but it certainly is going to happen. Next year after stuff is fixed I'm expecting us to be able to go a bit more Avante garde with some of our events to take advantage of new ideas and the updates, so I really want to get our base gameplay down pat now, and I fully appreciate your help in getting it there.
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#2 conras2

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:59 PM

I haven't had the opportunity to test the changes yet personally, but I think the main reason iRO hasn't responded as well to the changes is the same reason RO2 bombed in the Americas; the western world has never had a popular following for Korean and Japanese RPGs. I have played RO since it was in beta, and it's more of an acquired taste than anything else. I play other MMOs as well, but I always end up coming back to iRO.

I do not necessarily like the grind and I don't WoE, but the environment in combination with the music and the community is what makes this game great.

Every substantial bug I have seen in this game has always been dealt with diligently and hastily.

There will always been some people who like the grind, but the vast majority of MMOs now adays are tuned to be user friendly for any amount of playtime. I'm not saying somebody who plays an hour per week should have the same advantages as somebody who plays each night instead of, say, watching television. What I'm saying is that there needs to be a better scale of advantages awarded for those who play quite frequently (like myself when I played) and those who play a modest amount.

Things like this would include a better partying system, allowing the casual player to participate in leveling groups more quickly. From what I've been reading, leveling solo trumps group activity at the moment just due to the length of time it takes to set up said group.

Another example is the leveling curve. Unlike most MMOs, there is no tier system. Sure, you get better gear at 99(then) and 150(now) than you do whilst leveling, but most MMOs out there ease the grind to the cap, but increase the difficulty and duration of gear grinding. This makes the user feel like they have accomplished more, as they are at the max level but continue to improve the play of their character.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want iRO to end up a clone of some other MMO out there, I'm just giving ideas as to why it isn't as popular as I think it should be.

I'm sorry for the rant, I'm tired and bored while waiting to get my account back :).

<3 Conras
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#3 Ramen

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:32 PM

It's really good to hear that the devs are actually paying some attention to us. I'll do my best to make good use of the forums you'll be making. I've got a number of complaints and suggestions about a great many things that actually DON'T involve the Green Maiden pet.

Actually, I may as well say it here, and I'll go into more detail later on. Flee has gotten nerfed to all heck! I'm specifically talking PvP/WoE here. Pre-Renewal, I literally could flee pretty much ANY non-flee ignoring skill, and occasionally even Snipers would have trouble hitting me. After Renewal, I hardly ever flee anything. This is mainly because people get SO much more dex than they normally would compared to pre-renewal. I've never understood in the first place why flee was reduced in WoE anyway, especially with all the flee-ignoring skills out there. Not everyone is a freakin Minstrel/Maestro and can get max aspd from a single weapon while having a build that is 100% defensively built.

Edited by Ramen, 29 October 2010 - 08:40 PM.

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#4 Talvis

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:46 PM

Though I don't woe right now, I think most people just want to go back to normal woe. I.E. no special events. Just have all the woe one castles or woe 2 castles open for the 2hrs a Wed. or Sat. night.
The general feeling of partying in RO; "what's the point when I can get better soloing?" Aside from some odd methods that sound more like soloing in a group, there's no incentive to party most places beyond socializing. Either greatly increase the extra exp per member from 10%-~50% or make it so everyone gets full exp plus the +10% per party member.
The level based leveling system is good in theory, but it needs to be improved. If you're gonna force us to move on to "level appropriate" monsters then make sure the exp they give is level appropriate and worth the hassle. The experience given for higher level monsters needs to increase more exponentially. Bio3 pre renewal, hard as hell but worth it. post renewal, hard as hell, but not worth the time.
Eden group is a great idea, but the quests need to be redone. Going out and hunting 10 monsters the going back for a minor amt of exp isn't worth it. Increase the amount needed to kill for each quest and increase the reward to match. And make sure they give job experience. Sphinx quests, actually pretty good, but they should give job experience. Not a big issue for non trans, but it could be an issue for trans classes. You should also look into similar quest ideas for 85+ or especially 100+, just doing that could ease people's complaints of the grind for those levels.

Just my 2cents. Probably pointless putting them here, so I'll probably end up re putting these in the new forum area.
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#5 Kitten

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 09:14 PM

Special event WoEs might be a lot of fun, actually... But not to replace the regular WoE.

WoE should go back to how it was. Fix what is wrong with it instead of completely changing the system.

Event WoEs should take place on normal WoE off days and perhaps limit the treasure to one night only just so things don't get too crazy. We're already bursting at the seams with God Items... Some interesting ideas might be limiting realms based on guild size or guild level instead of strictly character level. A WoE based solely on character level will split guilds and friends apart and I think the smaller guilds would probably like to be able to WoE together in an environment they feel they can compete.
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#6 FoxyWoxy

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 09:21 PM

Well theres just a lot of people that need to be top level, one level less will not do. I'm sure the complaints we get later on when people have leveled up will change. I know my first WoE in renewal was confusing for both me and guild, next week was much better and one of the most fun I had in awhile in WoE. I know WoE will not stay that way and will change when people lvl up even more but, the game is a lot more fun when you get some job lvls ^^ As I see it renewal is like when Valk opened, some people spent their time on the forums complaining their lvl was too low, others just lvled. There are people now in-game lvling, while forums people complain they cant go over 102. Concerning party vs solo, its not always set in stone which is better, I myself get better exp in party.
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#7 Freedom

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 09:59 PM

Right now people are just getting used to the new lvling ways. Some people have found the best ways and keeping to them selves(dont blame them).I kind like moving from place to place with every few lvls if I can find a good place to go. So far the best exp I can find from any one monster I my RK lvl is cornus in the new world. Why cant you have more monster like that in different areas. No the easy to kill it that one is but the exp it gives. I am getting like 15k base and 10k job per kill.Just had more exp to some monsters is all I can ask you to do.

Woe use to be fun for my guild and I. latly it has sucked to the point that we gave up last woe. It wanst becasue we could not woe against others. It was because of the lag and the bigger guilds kicking our butts. So between the big guilds and the lag we had no choice but to stop. I understabd that someone pointed out that you were only testing woe so you only had 2 realms open. Thats good and all, but there really is alot of people that would like to see woe go back to the way is was before renewal. I understand that the bigger guilds want and need a challenge during woe to keep them around so you want to change it for them. To the eyes of the rest of the server its not good. we did not mind it woe 1 on wed and both woes on sat. I can tell now you do not plan on going back to that, which makes me very upset. Almost to the point where is not even worth doing woe and quiting the game. I know you and the rest of the server will not miss me, and my 10 dollars a month is nothing. I love playing ro and would rather no quit. I have desided to give you some time, most likly till x-mas to see what you guys are playing when I read what you posted.

Far as parties go. I would like to see them give more exp per person. Some thing like 15-30% more per person.

What can you guys do about transfering zeny on the same account. One person a while ago came up with the idea of a coin you can buy and store in storage, then resell back to a npc for the same amount. That seems like a great idea and easy to do.

Cast times on warlock, well high wiz need to be tone down a little bit. for people that are making new wiz or still lvling them their cast times on sg or lov is just to long to do any real lvling. The fixed cast time is just a joke on most of the skills. During woe I was so scared of Haseo because of his instant cast. Now any char in the wiz family is a joke in woe. Yes I do have a warlock now and used it few times now, but its not my main char. They need to have a better cast time in order to be anything in woe now.

The people complaining about cs damage is op. well so is gfist still. Only thing I would say is to disable the maestro skill gloomy shyness in woe. There is no reason to do 3 times normal damage in woe with cs. That would be op way to much.

I guess thats all I have to say for tonight. I bet there will be other things that will come up in the post that I will say about.
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#8 iCare

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 10:49 PM

Prerenewal WoE are more exciting than renewal WoE. Reason being so are those OHKO skills around. (ok not prolly 1 but 1-3 hits and ur out).
I know its too early to like rate renewal but the main reason im quitting is bcoz Renewal ruined my game.

Hope after this project of yours, i may have a reason to come back and play.
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#9 iCare

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 10:58 PM

Right now people are just getting used to the new lvling ways. Some people have found the best ways and keeping to them selves(dont blame them).I kind like moving from place to place with every few lvls if I can find a good place to go. So far the best exp I can find from any one monster I my RK lvl is cornus in the new world. Why cant you have more monster like that in different areas. No the easy to kill it that one is but the exp it gives. I am getting like 15k base and 10k job per kill.Just had more exp to some monsters is all I can ask you to do.

Woe use to be fun for my guild and I. latly it has sucked to the point that we gave up last woe. It wanst becasue we could not woe against others. It was because of the lag and the bigger guilds kicking our butts. So between the big guilds and the lag we had no choice but to stop. I understabd that someone pointed out that you were only testing woe so you only had 2 realms open. Thats good and all, but there really is alot of people that would like to see woe go back to the way is was before renewal. I understand that the bigger guilds want and need a challenge during woe to keep them around so you want to change it for them. To the eyes of the rest of the server its not good. we did not mind it woe 1 on wed and both woes on sat. I can tell now you do not plan on going back to that, which makes me very upset. Almost to the point where is not even worth doing woe and quiting the game. I know you and the rest of the server will not miss me, and my 10 dollars a month is nothing. I love playing ro and would rather no quit. I have desided to give you some time, most likly till x-mas to see what you guys are playing when I read what you posted.

Far as parties go. I would like to see them give more exp per person. Some thing like 15-30% more per person.

What can you guys do about transfering zeny on the same account. One person a while ago came up with the idea of a coin you can buy and store in storage, then resell back to a npc for the same amount. That seems like a great idea and easy to do.

Cast times on warlock, well high wiz need to be tone down a little bit. for people that are making new wiz or still lvling them their cast times on sg or lov is just to long to do any real lvling. The fixed cast time is just a joke on most of the skills. During woe I was so scared of Haseo because of his instant cast. Now any char in the wiz family is a joke in woe. Yes I do have a warlock now and used it few times now, but its not my main char. They need to have a better cast time in order to be anything in woe now.

The people complaining about cs damage is op. well so is gfist still. Only thing I would say is to disable the maestro skill gloomy shyness in woe. There is no reason to do 3 times normal damage in woe with cs. That would be op way to much.

I guess thats all I have to say for tonight. I bet there will be other things that will come up in the post that I will say about.


You dont have the reason to QQ about leveling. RK is the king of pvm/pvp (even if you have crappy gears u r all set). CS dont take ur SP like g fist and its a trans skill. I agree on WoE. It used to be fun the way it is. And with this testing system you guys are going on. You will not going to have a full comment of the community about it. Coz everyone stop WoEing. Put the WoE rules/restriction on PvP Arena so we can test everything 24/7 on PVP.
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#10 Ghost007

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 12:09 AM

I think partying needs to be worked on, specifically small 3-4 person parties, so that the experience is better then it would be solo, but also for very large parties, lets say for bio 3, or possibly ramp up experience in bio 3, since most people would instead solo bio 2 where the monsters have 1/4 the hp, are alot weaker, seems a bit odd.

I think some of the 3rd class skills need work, some are abusive and overpowered, while others are almost useless. Seems like there are alot of powerful skills/spells with little to no cast time, while some weaker skills/spells have a longer cast time.

Main concern is with how skills are handled, instead of disabling lots of skills, the way they work need to be changed. Sometimes something gets nerfed because of how strong it is in pvp/woe, but then it becomes almost useless in pvm afterwards, or vice versa.
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#11 Heimdallr

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 12:21 AM

Partying is one of the things we have already discussed with the devs, the bonus rate is likely able to be modified from 10% to something else (50% = everyone is exactly equal to a duo party which is a lot much IMHO).

The only reason I bring up the event WoE idea for now, is so the things I know 100% are broken in WoE have time to get fixed (will take weeks under best of circumstances), and to allow players the chance to max out the characters.

And a fringe benefit that I really want is to see are such events even fun for you guys? It is a switch up, not as rewarding as holding a castle for 7 days, but the time in should be entertaining.
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#12 Chosey

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 12:57 AM

The game is great and I'm down with renewal. The way the game and my server runs is absolutely terrible. Random periods of terrible lag, constant client crashes when fly-winging and teleporting. All I can hope is your ISP maintenance fixes these issues because this is unacceptable for a monthly fee, I could understand if it was free but your taking my money monthly, a game that runs efficiently isn't too much to ask for in return.

Edited by Chosey, 30 October 2010 - 01:09 AM.

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#13 Afrikan

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 01:16 AM

the problem with woe is that there's really no ppl left playing. thats prolly why ur not getting much feedback compared to other servers

things like split woe and only opening certain realms are good, but these things should have been done years ago. now its kinda late.

when servers merged, the whole d/c bug/lag for like 2 months ruined iRO imo. i kno tons of ppl who quit cuz of that. my guild alone had near full attendance every woe at the beginning of ymir and prolly 3/4 of the guild quit completely cuz woe was unplayable. at the end of pre-renewal my guild was almost completely different ppl from the beginning(mostly ppl from other guilds that quit) and out of all those ppl there's like 5 of us playing renewal.

WoE is the only end game for RO and it seems like something is always wrong with it. either its laggy, canceled, unplayable, or something. so when renewal gets introduced, of course nobody is motivated to spend a million hours grinding. at least pre renewal there was still some competition in woe cuz ppl had chars and could just log on for 4 hours a week. and im not hatin on renewal just for the record, cuz i think its ok if it gets some fixes, but its gonna suck just cuz nobody is playing it.
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#14 WaterBaron

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 01:43 AM

I don't know about WoE attendance, but from looking at the server population when I log in it seems there's more people online then there use to be on Ymir. Everybody's probably busy leveling.
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#15 Frappuccino

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 03:09 AM

During woe I was so scared of Haseo


this just invalidated your post i'm sorry
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#16 Freedom

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 03:34 AM

this just invalidated your post i'm sorry


He was the only hwiz at the time that I could not get bu or kill, do to his damn instant cast. Now hes just a joke with his cast times. Any wiz class is.
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#17 Freedom

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 03:38 AM

You dont have the reason to QQ about leveling. RK is the king of pvm/pvp (even if you have crappy gears u r all set). CS dont take ur SP like g fist and its a trans skill. I agree on WoE. It used to be fun the way it is. And with this testing system you guys are going on. You will not going to have a full comment of the community about it. Coz everyone stop WoEing. Put the WoE rules/restriction on PvP Arena so we can test everything 24/7 on PVP.


I am not QQ over lvling with my RK. seems like the RG are good for lvling also. its the other classes that have it pretty bad. I know some have the rainstorm skill and the others have thir ways to. I think the warlock class gets the worst out of renewal.
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#18 TheDelirium

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 03:58 AM

This is good to hear, there is a lot that needs fixing. I'm somewhat satisfied so far with renewal only being 83 levels into it, but certain things need to be looked at *Eden quests, exp rates(though I'm somewhat content with the current rates, this feels more like what the normal xp rate should be rather than event xp.) And other bugs I've come across so far which I'll happily report to help your team out.

What would make me happy? Make the regular exp rates 2.0x ymir/ygg and 1.5x valkyrie, That's all I ask really, as well as fixing the lag/class balances of course.

Eager to see how this turns out, Good luck to you Heim and the rest of the team.
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#19 Emichio

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 04:03 AM

Partying is one of the things we have already discussed with the devs, the bonus rate is likely able to be modified from 10% to something else (50% = everyone is exactly equal to a duo party which is a lot much IMHO).

The only reason I bring up the event WoE idea for now, is so the things I know 100% are broken in WoE have time to get fixed (will take weeks under best of circumstances), and to allow players the chance to max out the characters.

And a fringe benefit that I really want is to see are such events even fun for you guys? It is a switch up, not as rewarding as holding a castle for 7 days, but the time in should be entertaining.


The party increase would be efficient !, maybe MAX 20% per character, not just 10 like its at the moment, BUT it would be quite sad if split parties with people outside the screen got a bonus too.
The party system should be similar to the Dragon Events / REQs and so on, only people inside the screen should get the bonus, I suppose "everyone" would agree on that.

On another silly ( untended i suppose ) notes...

Rune Knights: Clashing spiral alone and more with Gloomy does absurd damage, if the skill was just cut in half, it would be enough D: right ppl? ;o ( or something like spiral = 66% of current dmg and gloomy 2x instead of 3x )
Royal Guards: Reflect Damage is quite annoying/troublesome in leveling areas and woe, something like reflecting a TOTAL of up to the total hp * ( level / 100 ) would fix most inconveniences.
Archbishops: Duple Light is quite bad !, the battle BPs are worse than before in comparison to the others, it needs to be buffed by 200% or something >_<
Mechanics: they don't kill anything, besides fixing the current broken skills they need something that kills D: ( And a slotted pile bunker =x )


Oh, also with the weight capacity increase, slim whites at 2 weight are kinda way too exaggerated.

Edited by Jaibuu, 30 October 2010 - 04:07 AM.

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#20 Resplendent

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 05:51 AM

Partying is one of the things we have already discussed with the devs, the bonus rate is likely able to be modified from 10% to something else (50% = everyone is exactly equal to a duo party which is a lot much IMHO).

The only reason I bring up the event WoE idea for now, is so the things I know 100% are broken in WoE have time to get fixed (will take weeks under best of circumstances), and to allow players the chance to max out the characters.

And a fringe benefit that I really want is to see are such events even fun for you guys? It is a switch up, not as rewarding as holding a castle for 7 days, but the time in should be entertaining.



Yeah party exp needs to be at least as good as duo exp. I think that would go a long way towards making the game more newbie friendly.
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#21 Lambor

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 05:59 AM

I really don't see how any "WoE Event" will really accomplish anything. WoE has been restricted to 1/2 realm(s) for several WoEs now and look at who's taking advantage of the situation.

Renewal pretty much killed off the WoE scene, and in combination with the past lag issues, the scale has really tipped regarding who is better off now. Props to Insurr, who got 8 of the top 10 spots. I'm the only person in my guild who is 150, and even over 140 at that. The majority of my guild enjoyed WoE for what it was, and not necessarily what it is. Things have transitioned from being casually playable to...if you don't invest atleast 10 hours a day, give up.

That pretty much outlines the situation in WoE as well. While some guilds are able to invest a lot of time into leveling, etc, other guilds simply can't. And with the 2x exp event NOT BEING permanent, once that's gone, WoE is pretty much over. Imagine spending 4x the amount of time you just did to get to where you are now. Nobody will level with that. I'm not saying perma 2x needs to be the answer, but realistically, people are already tired of the CURRENT 2x. I'm sure that if you check, not as many people are leveling as there were.

What is there to come back to? A WoE scene where skill not longer matters. It's simple. If you're a higher level, you'll kill everybody. And with the turtle hats being pulled after 150s were about, slowing everybody else down, and with 2x not being permanent, people are gonna come back, get rattled in WoE at level 105 or whatever, realize leveling blows ass, and quit again. It's the same RO. The only difference is you have to put in more time to get back to where you were.

And at 150? There's nothing to do but the same old :). MVPing has LONG been dead. ET is boring...whether you can complete it or not...there's really nothing left. Renewal made people work to get to where they used to be. That's about it.

Not much of a selling point.
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#22 Prodigy

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:06 AM

Partying is one of the things we have already discussed with the devs, the bonus rate is likely able to be modified from 10% to something else (50% = everyone is exactly equal to a duo party which is a lot much IMHO).

The thing is, in other MMOs, partying more and more players actually increases the killing rate, and thus increases exp rate. However in RO, 1~2 killers is more than enough to bring down any sized mob, which is partly why making big parties is unnecessary. On the other hand, some players have been suggesting that a big party, splitting up into groups of 2~3 and scattering across the map is, in actuality, exp efficient. However, the problem with that is 1) RO maps are small and can only hold so many groups of 2~3 before it gets crowded and 2) you lose that big party feel since everyone's basically just doing their own thing.
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#23 cRoc

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:35 AM

i like the buffing party share stuff, but i think doing the 50% buff its kinda excesive, it might be too much on the long run, i understand that at lower lvls it is kinda crappy right now, so you could mod it to be 50% on 99~down lvls? i really believe that lvl 100 up, people will come out with really good party setups with the currents or a little buffed share rates
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#24 Kaden14

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:51 AM

You should really consider opening multiple channels or changing leveling to be done mostly in instances where you can meet up with randoms for your party outside and start the instance based on how many people are in your group. Could be something as basic as ET style rooms where you clear them and eventually get to a boss, beat the boss and everyone gets some exp bonus at the end.

Take a look at the quest/instance driven leveling in the new game you're publishing, Dragon Saga. It really takes a lot of the grind out of leveling and makes it so that partying is always much faster than soloing.
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#25 Tolrin

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 07:44 AM

I have a number of concerns about these things... First of all the party system mentioned already rewards large group parties compared to pre-renewal... it isn't the party system thats the problem so much as the monsters. Buffing the amount of exp rewarded for being in a party will only lead to players leeching alts en-mass, not to players actually partying for fun. What is needed is monsters that are hard enough and give enough exp to justify partying, while being too difficult for most players to fight alone. Edit: changing Kahii would be a huge step in the right direction to making things too hard for players to solo!

My other concern is about War of Emperium. To put it bluntly, the problem most people seem to have with War of Emperium is that they are losing. I know my guild, for instance, had quite a bit of fun in the only renewal war that we've had a chance to participate in, and having some kind of event WoE isn't going to stop bad players from playing poorly. What there needs to be is some kind of encouragement for players to improve their organization and perhaps better resources for players learning how new skills work and what is useful and strong in pvp. For reference I think the disabled recall is a step in the right direction for players improving their organization; recall is the single most detrimental thing for most guilds trying to organize as many players will just wait around thinking "I'll be recalled so I don't need to worry about trying to organize with my guild."

On a positive note, I am highly impressed with the increased effort to communicate with players; it is a great improvement over the feedback players used to receive from the GM team

Edited by Tolrin, 30 October 2010 - 07:46 AM.

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