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#51 ensignfluke

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 04:08 PM

While I completely support improving the party system to make it more rewarding for those who partake, I don't support increased rates that get everyone to 150 in a month's time. RO has very little as far as end game content and we'll all be bored again once we reach max level again.


But the end game of RO is WoE and guess what I can't do in a fun way now because Gravity decided to change their game in a drastic way and I don't have hours upon hours to level anymore after 5 years of already playing RO. Don't think I'm the only one in this boat.

Oh yea, and the drops thing needs to be fixed as well, it's just ridiculous right now, this is one change that just doesn't work for RO without cards(why do low level monsters still drop some of the best cards while high level ones drop crap cards? You should always get better stuff the higher level you get. And some cards that used to be common, like Ray cards, become impossible for anyone other than 3rd classes to hunt), drop tables(again, high level monsters dropping low level gear; do we really need slotted guards at level 141?!?), quests(some quests become even harder and more tedious because you can't get the items you need for them), skills(why have skills with consumable items when you place penalties on item hunting), and drop rates(if you're going to add in penalties, at least raise the base rates) all being reworked in a significant manner.

I thought these changes would help bring life back to RO, but they seem half arsed in execution. Or maybe RO is just too old for some of the changes...

Edited by ensignfluke, 30 October 2010 - 04:28 PM.

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#52 LethalJokeChar

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 04:48 PM

Well, all I can really say is you've been GIVEN most of your answers already, yet you've ignored them.


http://forums.warppo...-about-renewal/

Practically any negative thing about renewal is true. None of the hype about it being "easier" to level is true.


http://forums.warppo...p-rate-penalty/

The poll results clearly show players STRONGLY opposed to this. Yet the only thing you did was slightly mitigate it.


And quite frankly, everything was added without any real testing, apparently. I don't know how the test server was up and you didn't realize skills like cart cannon or clashing spiral were so imbalanced, and left them in without fixing them. In fact, there's TOO MANY stupid skills that are crazy-imbalanced that at least could have had some temporary nerf on them to not make them so bad, yet you went through full steam ahead.


Well, haven't got much to say except you reap what you sow. You ignore player opinions off the bat, and you make them upset. Then it just makes you look silly trying to play dumb and ask us what's wrong. You rush things through without any comprehensive testing and balancing, you get a complete mess as your result.
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#53 Bahlum

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 05:08 PM

Monsters
  • make monsters have more complicated ai, similar to bio lab monsters
  • make it harder to fight higher level monsters
  • make the rewards for fighting higher level monsters better
  • have monsters form "parties" (if bots can do it... shouldn't monsters too?)

It seems like what we have for the leveling range thing is a place holder for the idea. In my opinion, the forced experience ranges should be replaced with actually making monsters of a level range harder or easier, and should give an increasing amount of experience depending on how hard the fight was. To make the leveling range thing work, it should be near impossible for a level 70 player to kill level 100 monsters. If preventing "power leveling" was the purpose of even thinking of this system, maybe hit, flee, attack and defense should be more influenced by level than they are currently. The best way to make monsters more difficult would be to make monsters "smarter" though, on top of being able to survive attacks from high level players.

I was almost able to complete the Izlude Arena with my level 69 knight, even though it the level range I entered was for levels "50-69" but had some monsters that were level 100+. I shouldn't have to fight a monster so many levels higher than me in a place categorized by level ranges but the fact that it was possible for me to deal with level 100+ monsters with my level 69 knight means to me that the the current level differences don't mean much.

@Hacks, this is how I justify the idea of players of different levels getting different amounts of exp from the same monster:
  • white belt vs purple: "waaa, that was scary! I'm lucky I survived"
  • purple vs purple: "oh, I get what my teacher was talking about now... when they attack this way I should counter this way..."
  • black vs purple: "that was too easy... i can't learn much if i keep fighting enemies this level"

A white belt can only learn a certain amount from surviving a fight without the knowledge to analyze the fight. A black belt can only learn so much from analyzing techniques and situations that they've already mastered. EXP isn't "lost", bonuses are just not given. Just because someone else at work was promoted doesn't mean your paycheck is any less.


Partying

  • make more maps have spawn zones
  • increase the exp tap
  • have monsters form parties
The reason spreading out helps gain exp currently is because there is less walking around you have to do because the monsters spawn across the map more evenly, instead of killing all the monsters in an area and having to walk to the next area. That method means the party kills more monsters per hour than a one big party in one area (most the time). Making more "zone spawn" maps (Thor Volcano) together with an increased exp tap would help get more parties going. Also, if monsters formed parties, it would lessen the hassle of having to look for more monsters and could provide a more rewarding challenge for parties of players.


Healing and potions
  • give Priests more heal over time skills (buffs maybe? Sanctuary is the only option atm)
  • decrease the delay of heal
  • add a delay to using potions (increase it if it has one already)
  • make the INT stat recover more when receiving heal?
This has always bothered me the most, maybe even more than the bot infestation. players dedicated to healing should mean something. Priests should be given some kind of heal over time buff they can use, on top of being able to heal more than one person. I know some of this is fixed with Arch Bishop, but regular Priests should be more than just lex spammers. The rate at which people can use potions is way too fast. it diminishes the value of any attack short of lethal. The pot spam rate is the biggest reason why only VIT builds are considered the only "serious" woe/pvp builds.


God items
  • have one of each kind per server
  • instead of fighting for rights to make more, fight for rights to own the one and only "GOD" item of that kind
This would be a reasonable excuse to make god items brokenly powerful. It would also take away the semi cast system that we have now with "god" class players.

Edited by Bahlum, 30 October 2010 - 05:13 PM.

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#54 ZeroTigress

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 05:26 PM

Or maybe RO is just too old for some of the changes...

RO the game or the RO community? One can wonder.
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#55 coolfish1103

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:01 PM

Couple things that can come up in mind:

1. Number of guilds in an alliance should be reduced drastically since there isn't really that many players in game. Two is ideal when all four realms are open in WoE 1. Alliances are not needed when you only have two realms open.

2. Number of players in a guild should be reduced (same reason as above) to 36 (at max level extension).

3. Make Antagonist list work and allow up to three in the list. Guilds who are on the antagonist list of another guild will not be able to use skill "Emergency Recall" inside said guild's fort. Guardians in said guild's fort will also do 2 (WoE 2) or 5 (WoE 1) times the damage to all guild members in those guilds that are set to Antagonists.

4. Disable the following skills temporarily till it's fixed (or read the parentheses behind).

- Cart Cannon (Put a cast time on it, similar to current Arrow Vulcan ones)
- Clashing Spiral (Reduce the damage formula by making weight not as much of a factor, by 5)
- Dragon's Breath (Make Dragon Type, Fire Elemental, Large Sized Reductions work, and ME not work if Pneuma works)
- Flying Kick (Make it not copy-able by Stalkers or Shadow Chasers)
- Gloomy: Shadow Chaser (Make agility resisting it, such as 200 AGI = 100% resist)
- Kaahi (Give it KE aspects of max hits and duration)
- Manhole (Put a 1 to 2 seconds variable cast time on it)
- Reflect Damage (Make it not work on Barricades and Guardian Stones)
- Shadow Form (Manhole-d targets cannot be target-ed)
- Snap (Put a 1 to 2 seconds variable cast time on it)
- All Traps (Make it so friendly traps will not damage/trap you, but will disappear if walked on).

5. The following skills should have cast time reduced or fixed cast time removed.

- Arrow Vulcan
- Energy Coat
- Most Wizard skills: Lord of Vermillion, Meteor Storm, Storm Gust
- Magnetic Earth

6. Party EXP buffs.

- Each additional person in party should add around 25 to 50% more exp.
- Monsters with more hp should adjust accordingly with EXP. Higher level monsters should have better skills and award more EXP.
- Numerous Maps need to have more mobs. Almost all maps except Juperos are horrible in terms of EXP when you have more than 2 parties in it.
- Not everyone is going to be in the same level range, freeing up the level restrictions a bit will be better (such as using average for all the character levels in the party).

I am not too sure what kind of woe events you can do with so many broken skills (whether buffed or nerf-ed) in. Most Mage classes are completely useless while Swordsman classes are overpowered.

Edited by coolfish1103, 30 October 2010 - 06:03 PM.

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#56 DeltaRay

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:16 PM

Dragon Breath needs to be fixed for WOE and same for the traps apperently these 2 skills bypass everything INCLUDING WOE reductions.
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#57 meoryou2

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:21 PM

4. Disable the following skills temporarily till it's fixed (or read the parentheses behind).

- Cart Cannon (Put a cast time on it, similar to current Arrow Vulcan ones)
- Clashing Spiral (Reduce the damage formula by making weight not as much of a factor, by 5)
- Dragon's Breath (Make Dragon Type, Fire Elemental, Large Sized Reductions work, and ME not work if Pneuma works)
- Flying Kick (Make it not copy-able by Stalkers or Shadow Chasers)
- Gloomy: Shadow Chaser (Make agility resisting it, such as 200 AGI = 100% resist)
- Kaahi (Give it KE aspects of max hits and duration)
- Manhole (Put a 1 to 2 seconds variable cast time on it)
- Reflect Damage (Make it not work on Barricades and Guardian Stones)
- Shadow Form (Manhole-d targets cannot be target-ed)
- Snap (Put a 1 to 2 seconds variable cast time on it)
- All Traps (Make it so friendly traps will not damage/trap you, but will disappear if walked on).

5. The following skills should have cast time reduced or fixed cast time removed.

- Arrow Vulcan
- Energy Coat
- Most Wizard skills: Lord of Vermillion, Meteor Storm, Storm Gust
- Magnetic Earth




Why don't you do a bit of research before you knee-jerk?
One: cart cannon DOES have a cast time - roughly 1.8 seconds with 65+17 DEX

Two: I agree with ya on energy coat - and maybe have a 0.6-8 second fixed cast delay with a moderate variable cast delay on AV. NOT gonna agree with you on the wiz skills though, they were broken with instacast before... we don't need that again.
Kaahi is already restricted quite hard, you have to be opposite genders AND married / adopted.
Flying kick, yeah most rogue who use it are just stupid, I killed one who was kicking my BOLT scholar with melee attacks..... WTF?

As a side note, why the hell are people so worked up about CS? If I can tank 3 RKs casting it on me with a AB lexing me it is NOT over powered.....
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#58 Prime

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:31 PM

Well, all I can really say is you've been GIVEN most of your answers already, yet you've ignored them.


http://forums.warppo...-about-renewal/

Practically any negative thing about renewal is true. None of the hype about it being "easier" to level is true.


http://forums.warppo...p-rate-penalty/

The poll results clearly show players STRONGLY opposed to this. Yet the only thing you did was slightly mitigate it.


And quite frankly, everything was added without any real testing, apparently. I don't know how the test server was up and you didn't realize skills like cart cannon or clashing spiral were so imbalanced, and left them in without fixing them. In fact, there's TOO MANY stupid skills that are crazy-imbalanced that at least could have had some temporary nerf on them to not make them so bad, yet you went through full steam ahead.


Well, haven't got much to say except you reap what you sow. You ignore player opinions off the bat, and you make them upset. Then it just makes you look silly trying to play dumb and ask us what's wrong. You rush things through without any comprehensive testing and balancing, you get a complete mess as your result.


^ This.

Watch for another "tell us what's need to be fixed" post in 2-4 weeks?

All the imbalance skills and Realm restrictions have already ruined the whole landscape of WoE.

2010 Halloween, the end of Ymir WoE.
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#59 ensignfluke

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:37 PM

- Flying Kick (Make it not copy-able by Stalkers or Shadow Chasers)
- Kaahi (Give it KE aspects of max hits and duration)


I agree with your other points, especially about the guilds and alliances, but what's wrong with these two skills? =( I level my soul linker with kaahi and it would be much harder without that. Maybe make it so that skills that reflect damage cancel kaahi instead? And as for flying kick, with the success chances of full strip seeming to go down in renewal, it seems like the only useful thing for stalker until they get to 3rd class.
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#60 Pepperoncini

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:39 PM

Practically any negative thing about renewal is true. None of the hype about it being "easier" to level is true.



How did you conclude this? I made a novice and had him to 80 blacksmith in 1 day. With no outside help, no items, no zenny. Literally nothing but my eden gear.
Tonight I leveled my minstrel from 70-90. Likewise my monk went from 98-99 in a grand total of 1 hour. Leveling is absolutely "easier".
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#61 Ghost007

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 07:00 PM

both cart canon and dragons breath are pretty much not reduced by anything.

It's not just about being 150, only difference at 150 is you might get 2hit by some of these skills intead of 1 hit.
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#62 Rate

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 07:07 PM

How did you conclude this? I made a novice and had him to 80 blacksmith in 1 day. With no outside help, no items, no zenny. Literally nothing but my eden gear.
Tonight I leveled my minstrel from 70-90. Likewise my monk went from 98-99 in a grand total of 1 hour. Leveling is absolutely "easier".

Wait til you hit level 100, you're in for a surprise
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#63 Freedom

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 07:35 PM

As I stated in other threads before. Small guild and med guild stand no chance any more. even if they had all of woe 2 open today. the insur allance will roll over us. Maybe people can see this now,
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#64 LethalJokeChar

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 07:35 PM

How did you conclude this? I made a novice and had him to 80 blacksmith in 1 day. With no outside help, no items, no zenny. Literally nothing but my eden gear.
Tonight I leveled my minstrel from 70-90. Likewise my monk went from 98-99 in a grand total of 1 hour. Leveling is absolutely "easier".


How sad. Level 80 in renewal is like level 53 pre-renewal. The eden gear IS a nice and helpful thing to get newbies started, and if you were given something equivalent to that pre-renewal, you'd probably be HIGHER than level 53.

Your minstrel leveling spree would have been like levels 46 - 59 pre-renewal in one night. And that's just not impressive.

As Rate said, you are going to be in for a surprise. A nasty surprise.

Edited by LethalJokeChar, 30 October 2010 - 07:36 PM.

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#65 tunwaia

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 07:48 PM

I look forward to seeing the forums posted where we can get our opinions in regarding hopeful changes/ improvements. Communication is key and hopefully the developers will continue to work with you on this. Tonights woe was just as disheartening as last saturdays. Its so very hard to keep walking into a castle when you know you don't even have to be on the same screen with a character now for its skill to kill you =/
Everyone says wizards were "broken " before , being able to acheive insta cast in some instances.
Only a few were able to acheive that , and their direct lack of defence and hp points was always more then enough of a balance ! Trust me!
Anyway ! I will wait to see what topics you decide you need feed back on and hope to see RO become fun again =D
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#66 Perseus

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 07:51 PM

October 21, 2010

* Reset all castles to 100 100 all servers, kick all owners. Only Valkyrie Realm, Greenwood lake, and Nidhoggur realms will be open this week. We are condensing down on all servers to see how 3rd classes are needing to be adjusted for balance (if at all).



Dear GMs,
Kindly let us know when "this week" of October 21st is over, thanks.
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#67 Sera

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:29 PM

No one can significantly tank anything in renewal so I can't run small parties with my friends in upper 9x levels anymore. Was trying to duo ID3, low level ArchBishop + High Wizard. I OHKO'd titans with LoV, didn't matter though, because they dealt so much damage they crushed everything.
Same problem with a lot of places. Even with god items and :), you cannot tank a large amount of monsters at your level without kaahi or multiple people.




And the main reason why I don't like renewal?

Please ask the devs if any of them actually ever played mechanic. Like, seriously, just ask them.
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#68 kareneiko

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:34 PM

Everything Lambor has said on the first page is absolutely true.

It's nice that you guys are finally going to listen and probably actually implement many community-suggested ideas that are GAME changing, and not silly things like the name-change of a class, name of a server, etc.

I never expected the leveling to be easy but I didn't expect it to be so hard. I don't have time to devote 5+ hours each day to gain ~5 levels, and neither do most of the "veterans" that you want back.

I am wondering how much RIGHTS does iRO have to change game mechanics and such, without having to go through a long process through Gravity. If they gave iRO the freedom to adapt practically everything, (change the game UI, permanent exp/party mechanics, items, etc) I'm sure iRO could eventually get to the point where the game will be enjoyable by the "west" population.

And about WoE... it's not all of Insur's fault that WoE is no longer enjoyable to mid-small guilds, believe it or not with all these people crying about it. The re-learning idea, the too grindiful leveling, are also factors in it. Afrikan is right that all of the lag/cancelled/delayed WoEs repeated one time too many, also made people wonder about the quality of service and how much of the money paid for subscription is actually going to something that they want.

Adding subscription time for screwups isn't enough. How about no screwups? It happens a bit too often in this game. Every maintenance goes longer than expected. Any day where the game goes down, takes hours to get attention or response from a GM.
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#69 Talvis

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:40 PM

Partying is one of the things we have already discussed with the devs, the bonus rate is likely able to be modified from 10% to something else (50% = everyone is exactly equal to a duo party which is a lot much IMHO).

If i understand you, you're saying that large parties giving decent exp is overpowered even though 90% of the game population want's large parties to give equal or more exp then soloing. If you want to encourage large parties, make it more worth it to party then to solo. Because right now the only way to get more exp partying in a large party is to essentially "solo party", in other words, you're in a party but you don't function as a party. Perhaps make some areas unsoloable but at the same time jack up the exp so that people will actually want to create a large party to go there for the extra exp. Right now, no such dungeons exist.

The only reason I bring up the event WoE idea for now, is so the things I know 100% are broken in WoE have time to get fixed (will take weeks under best of circumstances), and to allow players the chance to max out the characters.

If I understand the general attitude of players, they would rather have old woe back with all the realms open then some "test" woe with only certain realms open that in the end only server to make it too easy for the mega guilds. SO, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, JUST LET US HAVE A NORMAL WOE!
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#70 ensignfluke

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:40 PM

It seems like what we have for the leveling range thing is a place holder for the idea. In my opinion, the forced experience ranges should be replaced with actually making monsters of a level range harder or easier, and should give an increasing amount of experience depending on how hard the fight was. To make the leveling range thing work, it should be near impossible for a level 70 player to kill level 100 monsters. If preventing "power leveling" was the purpose of even thinking of this system, maybe hit, flee, attack and defense should be more influenced by level than they are currently. The best way to make monsters more difficult would be to make monsters "smarter" though, on top of being able to survive attacks from high level players.


Glad you mentioned that, cause that was another silly thing, the level ranges of monsters are almost meaningless. I've been leveling in kunlun 1 since the low 80s into the 90s on my soul linker, and they can still kick my butt when I get mobbed even though I'm almost the same level as most of them, and it's rather fun. Yet when I go to GH to kill dark priests now that I'm 10 levels below them, they're ridiculously easy, to the point that I left out of boredom. You'd think that higher level monsters would be harder, or if you're 10 levels below, that they'd still be a pain to kill, but it seems like some monsters are still ridiculously easy compared to others.
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#71 CocaCola

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:41 PM

Yes more castles please.
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#72 D111

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 10:00 PM

Yes more castles please.


Please...
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#73 Ralis

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 10:05 PM

Copypasta from my other thread because apparently mods can't delete posts irrelevant to the rest of the post, but instead choose to lock the entire thread:

- I'm sick of only having 10 castles to pick from. Why are the other realms not open yet? :); There are too many guilds on the server to only have 10 castles.

- The new Emps benefit no one but the larger guilds. A castle can now be utterly abandoned in the last 10-15 minutes while all of Valk goes off to rush another castle.

- If you've ACKNOWLEDGED that WoE is broken, WHY IS IT STILL UP? You're HANDING larger guilds additional God Items that they don't need. What was your plan when you reset the castles to 100 econ? What, exactly, was the point?

- Yes, there will always be those that are on top, and I completely acknowledge that. However, there needs to remain a balance. WoE as it stands is essentially preventing any other guilds from advancing while the dominating alliance surges even further ahead. They claim they're bored. Shake things up every once in awhile.

- TEST. TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST. AND THEN TEST AGAIN. Why do things seem to CONTINUE to go wrong every. Single. Day?

- Classes need to be balanced for PvP. Is it just me, or has Heat not been usable in WoE before? Other skills need to be fixed, changed, disabled, etc., yet, as I've said, WoE is, for some reason, still enabled.

I am in no way blaming Valkyrie Guild / Alliance or trying to say they aren't deserving of their title, ranking, bla bla bla. My main concern is that I play Rangarok because it's FUN, and there is absolutely no fun in being stomped into the ground by these larger guilds. I enjoy competition, but it needs to be made a bit more even and more enjoyable. Regardless of whether or not we take a castle every WoE, it's at least fun when we can compete with other guilds that are similar to ours and at least feel as if we have a chance. =P

Edited by Ralis, 30 October 2010 - 10:07 PM.

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#74 Sera

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 10:07 PM

Said this before, but was ignored.

If all castles dropped the same things (like a God Item Component Box instead of a predetermined god item component) it would make more of an incentive for the large guilds to spread out and take more castles (assuming more castles are available in the first place) and making them weaker at individual castles.
It would also probably pump some money into the smaller guilds who manage to hold a castle, as they then have a chance of getting a valuable component same as everyone else.
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#75 D111

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 10:17 PM

Copypasta from my other thread because apparently mods can't delete posts irrelevant to the rest of the post, but instead choose to lock the entire thread:

- I'm sick of only having 10 castles to pick from. Why are the other realms not open yet? :); There are too many guilds on the server to only have 10 castles.

- The new Emps benefit no one but the larger guilds. A castle can now be utterly abandoned in the last 10-15 minutes while all of Valk goes off to rush another castle.

- If you've ACKNOWLEDGED that WoE is broken, WHY IS IT STILL UP? You're HANDING larger guilds additional God Items that they don't need. What was your plan when you reset the castles to 100 econ? What, exactly, was the point?

- Yes, there will always be those that are on top, and I completely acknowledge that. However, there needs to remain a balance. WoE as it stands is essentially preventing any other guilds from advancing while the dominating alliance surges even further ahead. They claim they're bored. Shake things up every once in awhile.

- TEST. TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST. AND THEN TEST AGAIN. Why do things seem to CONTINUE to go wrong every. Single. Day?

- Classes need to be balanced for PvP. Is it just me, or has Heat not been usable in WoE before? Other skills need to be fixed, changed, disabled, etc., yet, as I've said, WoE is, for some reason, still enabled.

I am in no way blaming Valkyrie Guild / Alliance or trying to say they aren't deserving of their title, ranking, bla bla bla. My main concern is that I play Rangarok because it's FUN, and there is absolutely no fun in being stomped into the ground by these larger guilds. I enjoy competition, but it needs to be made a bit more even and more enjoyable. Regardless of whether or not we take a castle every WoE, it's at least fun when we can compete with other guilds that are similar to ours and at least feel as if we have a chance. =P


Bump Same for Ymir, 5 Forts is just Crazy...

As I and many others have stated, you have forcefully made people in our guilds quit before woe ends, I never have had that happen until now...
Please before I have to stop my guild, because no one wants to woe, rethink this madness...
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