Make iRO P2P? - Page 2 - Proposals and Suggestions - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo
* - - - - 7 votes

Make iRO P2P?


  • Please log in to reply
94 replies to this topic

#26 HeIIraiser

HeIIraiser

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Banned
  • 1201 posts
  • LocationUranus
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:23 PM

Thought of and easily abused on purpose. Think about it.

 

 

 

@OP: Also, "Pay once to play unlimited" isn't going to keep the server alive unless they keep the KP Shop in. Pay2Play monthly requires loyal customers that you're guaranteed will stay and the profits must equal to or surpass what they're currently making with the Free2Play heavy cash shop model. Pay2Play also means the cash shop must be toned down to make the money's worth for the player in order to not burn them out for that steady stream of profit for the company. Can you maintain that subscription? That's a hefty gamble.

 

Yes, pay wall slows down botters(Yes, they can get around these pay walls. I'm sure you're not a fool to think botters and scammers can be stopped by a pay wall, because there were botters even during the time we had subscription model servers in Pre-Renewal iRO.) and scammers. Then again, it also stops a lot of other players from staying or playing the game. Take for example, FF14 has plenty of players, but it also stops a lot of other interested potential players from joining due to the Pay2Play model out of hesitation and time investment. What worth is there in playing a Pay2Play subscription model game if you pay for the entire month and end up only playing for 1 week combined out of that entire month? Try to think on those terms. Not everyone has the time in the world to make the most out of subscription model games. This is also the case for a lot of players who only log on to WoE and such. Business-wise, it isn't healthy to cater to these time constraint needs via the "Time will only be spent with the time you play." They will lose money if they went by that kind of suggestion.

 

That^ also means trial periods must be given out if they want to attract new customers. Scammers can still use fake IDs to create new trial accounts to scam others if needed. Spammers only need those trials to keep on spamming.

 

 

 

And what about the multi-client oriented players? That opens up a whole can of worms.

 

^

Nuff said :no1:
 


Edited by HeIIraiser, 22 November 2013 - 10:26 PM.

  • 0

#27 kbred

kbred

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 492 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:chaos

Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:27 PM

 

 

 

 

@OP: Also, "Pay once to play unlimited" isn't going to keep the server alive unless they keep the KP Shop in. 

Is just a one time fee, don't need to change anything in game. 


  • 0

#28 GuardianTK

GuardianTK

    They pay me to post.

  • RO Fungineering
  • 9388 posts
  • LocationIn a certain mansion
  • Playing:Nothing
  • Server:Chaos Renewal + Odin

Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:32 PM

Is just a one time fee, don't need to change anything in game. 

 

That's the thing. If there's a pay wall of any sort, the company must provide some sort of trial period or buddy/friend invitation trial system to interest new potential players into trying out the game. From there it's all about trying to have them stay after paying. Is it worth the money? Will it provide that much of a landslide profit for the company as opposed to providing an outlet for players interested in playing the game, even if it's a 1-time fee? Will they stay after seeing how heavily reliant the game is on the cash shop, even after paying that 1-time fee?


Edited by GuardianTK, 22 November 2013 - 10:33 PM.

  • 0

#29 LumLotus

LumLotus

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 39 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Loki

Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:36 PM

Player A makes a report about Botter A.

GM9001 confirms that Botter A is in fact botting.

Player A makes a profit. Oh wait...Player A was actually the one that made and botted Botter A.

 

 

Replace Botter with Scammer/Abuser/etc. Works the same. Doesn't have to be one person. It could be several people conspiring. IP Checks for verification isn't the way to go.

 

Blah I really didn't think about it that way. :X

Still the motivation to report is still way too low.

 

I though of events for bot hunting but after what you said the same problem would happen.

 

I did have another idea but could only be done if there was someone who would do coding for it. But somehow I don't think its possible to convince the game makers to do anything about it. Its also likely to annoy legit players or after a while just not work anymore.

 

Most of it really does feel too futile...

 

Another thought but for gold spammers.

The spam filter should be updated through patches so that new players won't see the gold spam. (Should probably updated each time the gold spammers get around the filters.)

This should help prevent new players from using them if that could at least work.


  • 0

#30 Facekiller

Facekiller

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9780 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:CHAOS

Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:41 PM

this game is AWESOME as a F2P MMO.... but with the lag and server issues and over abundance of old zeny/gods/mvp cards on the server and its fairly small population it would be terrible as a P2P MMO.... especially with all the F2P options out there with more modern graphics... it would simply kill this game....


  • 0

#31 xLoli

xLoli

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1143 posts
  • LocationVirginia, U.S.
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Valkyrie > Chaos

Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:42 PM

Speaking for myself, as someone who participates in VIP and KP items, if I had to of paid to play to begin with, I never would have played at all. Lets be honest here, Ragnarok is pretty old. I don't have tons of experience on MMOs, either. If I was actually in the market for a game I had to pay to play to begin with, it probably would have been one with 3D graphics, lots of advertisment, etc etc. Ragnarok is by far my favorite game now, but yeah, perhaps you can see my point.


  • 0

#32 GuardianTK

GuardianTK

    They pay me to post.

  • RO Fungineering
  • 9388 posts
  • LocationIn a certain mansion
  • Playing:Nothing
  • Server:Chaos Renewal + Odin

Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:44 PM

Blah I really didn't think about it that way. :X

Still the motivation to report is still way too low.

 

I though of events for bot hunting but after what you said the same problem would happen.

 

I did have another idea but could only be done if there was someone who would do coding for it. But somehow I don't think its possible to convince the game makers to do anything about it. Its also likely to annoy legit players or after a while just not work anymore.

 

Most of it really does feel too futile...

 

Another thought but for gold spammers.

The spam filter should be updated through patches so that new players won't see the gold spam. (Should probably updated each time the gold spammers get around the filters.)

This should help prevent new players from using them if that could at least work.

 

Don't worry. You're not the first person to not think it through like that. Too many people have thought such a system would work, but the reality is that it can be abused.

The motivation to report is too low because the reaction from the GMs isn't quick enough. Even if you had volunteers flagging so and so player for abuse, the GMs would still need to look over the volunteer's investigations and it would still be too late to act in many cases. Not to mention the fact that the GMs would be flooded with more work than they currently do if we do get volunteers to help with reporting this and that.

 

Updating the nospam via updates from the client would only make the spammers adapt quicker. Just because they don't use the client for botting doesn't mean they don't check the main client for updates and the likes. Updating the nospam via patches would only mean it's all there for them to see and use in black and white. It would help them come up with newer ways to avoid nospam.

 

 

The only true way to stop gold selling companies is by driving them away. The only way to drive them away is by destroying their source of profit: The people buying zeny from them. Ban the ones buying the zeny and you'll get rid of the zeny selling companies if they cannot make a profit. Alas, we're all humans. And among humans, there are fools who just do what they can to get ahead. Zeny buyers are such a thing.


  • 0

#33 LumLotus

LumLotus

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 39 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Loki

Posted 22 November 2013 - 10:58 PM

[...]

 

Updating the nospam via updates from the client would only make the spammers adapt quicker. Just because they don't use the client for botting doesn't mean they don't check the main client for updates and the likes. Updating the nospam via patches would only mean it's all there for them to see and use in black and white. It would help them come up with newer ways to avoid nospam.

 

 

The only true way to stop gold selling companies is by driving them away. The only way to drive them away is by destroying their source of profit: The people buying zeny from them. Ban the ones buying the zeny and you'll get rid of the zeny selling companies if they cannot make a profit. Alas, we're all humans. And among humans, there are fools who just do what they can to get ahead. Zeny buyers are such a thing.

 

Finding a way to totally mute gold spammers could be a way of driving them away.

I can't completely see keeping up with them too much of a problem though. Its possible to update nospam only and have any player getting on to receive it when they launch the game and most likely wouldn't have to turn the servers off to do it. If that was really possible I personally would be willing to work on it no pay required. (If it was ever an option and completely doable.)


  • 0

#34 Facekiller

Facekiller

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9780 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:CHAOS

Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:06 PM

it would be awesome if somebody could find a way to send virus/worms to the zeny selling sites and just destroy their systems... along with the message that if they come back we will do much worse... but i dont think we have that ability :heh:


  • 0

#35 LumLotus

LumLotus

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 39 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Loki

Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:20 PM

it would be awesome if somebody could find a way to send virus/worms to the zeny selling sites and just destroy their systems... along with the message that if they come back we will do much worse... but i dont think we have that ability :heh:

 

I've wished about getting a group of people to ddos them... but I'm sure that is likely impossible... that and I'm pretty sure all involved with ddosing them would get into trouble some how. XD


  • 0

#36 Xord

Xord

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 617 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:25 PM

I edited that part because there is good and trusted people from 3rd world country. but there is ton that scam from a 3rd world country,so far i seen alot of scammer from indian....dont know why.

 

Dont know about Indian scammers(yet to find one of these) but I have recently ran into a lot of scammers from a particular developed country. I have seen alot of scammers from Singapore...dont know why.

 

 Also, the gold farming sites- I have seen them across several other games spamming. They mostly operate from Mainland China. I think everyone knows that part. Which also means most bots are operated from that country.
 


Edited by Xord, 23 November 2013 - 12:00 AM.

  • 0

#37 Daray

Daray

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1019 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:40 PM

Full P2P would destroy the game. Currently there is P2P (VIP) for those who want that bit of an extra edge already.
Without seriously nerfing/stopping kafra shop and adding valuable items as drops there would be no way that P2P/paywall would do anything but wreck the community.


  • 0

#38 belld1711

belld1711

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1567 posts
  • LocationWhere ever you want me to be.
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:49 PM

I honestly don't think that WP really wants to get rid of the botters/town spammers. I mean, sure, ban a few accounts here and there, but the cash clowns will just create new accounts. And with it, they might buy VIP for that new account if it's for botting. I mean seriously, the bots used by the zeny sellers HAVE to be dumping all their money into another account. That way, if the botting account gets banned, they still have their zeny/items. I've seen ads for 4 companies and checked their sites. They have millions, if not billions of zeny. And to replenish the stock, they need bots. Some of them do buy zeny from players, but you KNOW they're using bots. So why not go after the accounts that are HOLDING the zeny/items? We've seen posts from players claiming to being banned from dealing with those zeny sellers, so they seem to have been identified.

 

And another thing to think about. If someone has the ability to instantly ban an account, why do they only MUTE the spammers? Why not boot them immediately?

 

Those reasons, and the sheer number of bots is the reason why I find it's a losing battle and have stopped reporting. It's too much of a waste of time, especially when we're talking about a zeny company that could have 10 WP accounts botting right now. And that's ONE company. And they can create a new account and purchase VIP to level fast to start farming "God items" in no time. They are probably also buying from KP to get some of those items, selling them in a shop, then selling that zeny for a profit. So zeny sellers=profits for WP.

 

I know it seems like I'm bashing WP. I'm not. From a financial standpoint, WP would lose out more if they really went after those accounts that the company holds, than to "play the part" and just ban a few, or ban non-VIP PLAYERS who bot. Simple fact, ya know?

 

As for P2P, I'd be one of the ones that left. I'm not a "scamming kid", nor do I use bots. I never bought anything from KP, but I had considered it a few times. Make the game P2P, even for a one time fee, and I'm out. I was doing fine before I was told iRO was f2p now, and I'll be just fine after I leave. Sorry.

 

2 more things. First, if the GMs keep updating the nospam file, you soon wouldn't even be able to say "zeny" let alone announcing in town chat that you'd like to buy or sell an expensive item. And they can get around the filters too easily. Just by putting a period in a sentence, they can announce that they're selling ze.ny on their site, but you can't ask to see how many **** someone wants for that armor.

 

And I also think this thread will be closed soon, especially since the thread about bots in Low TI got closed...


Edited by belld1711, 23 November 2013 - 12:05 AM.

  • 0

#39 LumLotus

LumLotus

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 39 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Loki

Posted 23 November 2013 - 12:01 AM

[...]

2 more things. First, if the GMs keep updating the nospam file, you soon wouldn't even be able to say "zeny" let alone announcing in town chat that you'd like to buy or sell an expensive item. And they can get around the filters too easily. Just by putting a period in a sentence, they can announce that they're selling ze.ny on their site, but you can't ask to see how many **** someone wants for that armor.

[...]

 

Not exactly true...

If all combination of "com" and "net" is found no body would be able to spam it.

That and I don't think the filters work in such a way that its "unsayable" as "zeny" is already in the spam filter.

Matter of fact zeny seems to be the first added phrase in the spam filter.

I believe it works with how many times one person says the same thing over and over again.


Edited by LumLotus, 23 November 2013 - 12:07 AM.

  • 0

#40 belld1711

belld1711

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1567 posts
  • LocationWhere ever you want me to be.
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 23 November 2013 - 12:10 AM

Not exactly true...

If all combination of "com" and "net" is found no body would be able to spam it.

That and I don't think the filters work in such a way that its "unsayable" as "zeny" is already in the spam filter.

Matter of fact zeny seems to be the first added phrase in the spam filter.

I believe it works with how many times one person says the same thing over and over again.

 

I stand corrected. Your right on that. For some reason, I was thinking that the nospam file was the same as a normal chat filter.


  • 0

#41 Facekiller

Facekiller

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 9780 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:CHAOS

Posted 23 November 2013 - 12:59 AM

 

 

And another thing to think about. If someone has the ability to instantly ban an account, why do they only MUTE the spammers? Why not boot them immediately?

 

Those reasons, and the sheer number of bots is the reason why I find it's a losing battle and have stopped reporting. It's too much of a waste of time, especially when we're talking about a zeny company that could have 10 WP accounts botting right now. And that's ONE company. And they can create a new account and purchase VIP to level fast to start farming "God items" in no time. They are probably also buying from KP to get some of those items, selling them in a shop, then selling that zeny for a profit. So zeny sellers=profits for WP.

 

 

they mute the bots because it takes longer for the person running the botting program to realize the bots have been nulified opposed to being banned... Bots dont buy VIP...theres no reason to... they dont need to farm high priced items... they go and farm low level areas in mass droves and then sell the looted items to NPCs for zeny then transfer that zeny to their main account... also God items cant be just botted you cant get the pieces to make god items from botting and you cant make god items with bots either... they dont buy KP they dont buy WP.... they dont do any of that stuff youre suggesting... they just send their bots around to pick up loots and sell them to NPCs for small chunks of zeny.... they do this non stop 24 hours a day and since they dont need supplies all the zeny collected goes right into the bank.... if one bot gets banned they just replace it with another and it does the exact same thing....
 


  • 0

#42 hesho

hesho

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 223 posts

Posted 23 November 2013 - 04:21 AM

i still maintain that during logging, it should prompt to u answer a basic match question.  It doesn't always ask it but it randomly asks it.  I always figured this would help cut down the bots/spammers.


  • 0

#43 CatMuto

CatMuto

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 463 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 23 November 2013 - 04:30 AM

 

but with the lag

 

I'll be honest, I never noticed lag in the game unless I am in a TI party and tons of monsters are around us. Otherwise, any other area of the game I went into has no lag.

 

As for RO being P2P, well we did have the P2P Ymir server for a while. I never was on it because I am broke in real life and can't afford to pay for that server. Actually, I forget why they removed Ymir... but it could be that it shows that Ymir was not enough to support Gravity that way. And as xLoli points out; RO is a pretty old game and not everybody would be willing to pay to play it.

Heck, considering all the private servers still out there that are free (and sometimes have better mechanics or options than iRO) it's very likely people would flock more to private servers than iRO.

So while P2P may lessen botting, I don't think it would work in the long run.

 

C-A


  • 0

#44 Quazera

Quazera

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 540 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 23 November 2013 - 07:32 AM

Not that I'm saying we should just do nothing about bots but...

 

The level of annoyance that a bot  has seems highest when you are just starting out, (ie izlude/novie island, spores...etc...) and then as you get to higher levels, it seems like there's this inverse relationship that occurs as you near end game where you start to notice bots less...and lesss....and....less....and kinda just enjoy the strawberries while poking at my no-spam.

 

I've had more grief from actual players lately than bots@@ The anger that comes from a robot ksing you is nothing compared to an actual player ksing you.

 

I overlook the games faults for the people that play because they are great people and I'd like to think that the community would make part of the game great:) and it makes me sad to see some who are ruining it for others.

 

SO ABOUT MAKING RO A BETTER PLACE?


Edited by Quazera, 23 November 2013 - 07:36 AM.

  • 0

#45 GuardianTK

GuardianTK

    They pay me to post.

  • RO Fungineering
  • 9388 posts
  • LocationIn a certain mansion
  • Playing:Nothing
  • Server:Chaos Renewal + Odin

Posted 23 November 2013 - 07:49 AM

What if I told you...that some of those higher leveled players used to be or are botters?

 

What if I told you...that they got to that level by botting?

 

 

 

Zeny selling companies don't just sell zeny. I've seen them sell accounts with Lv150 characters as well.

 

 

But yes, the community is a major part of why I'm no longer active with this game.


Edited by GuardianTK, 23 November 2013 - 07:50 AM.

  • 0

#46 davdbg

davdbg

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 691 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:chaos and classic(?)

Posted 23 November 2013 - 07:59 AM

its funny to see those players that had buyed 150s, i used to know a ranger that dont know what improve concentration is xD
  • 0

#47 LumLotus

LumLotus

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 39 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Loki

Posted 23 November 2013 - 08:37 AM

they mute the bots because it takes longer for the person running the botting program to realize the bots have been nulified opposed to being banned... Bots dont buy VIP...theres no reason to... they dont need to farm high priced items... they go and farm low level areas in mass droves and then sell the looted items to NPCs for zeny then transfer that zeny to their main account... also God items cant be just botted you cant get the pieces to make god items from botting and you cant make god items with bots either... they dont buy KP they dont buy WP.... they dont do any of that stuff youre suggesting... they just send their bots around to pick up loots and sell them to NPCs for small chunks of zeny.... they do this non stop 24 hours a day and since they dont need supplies all the zeny collected goes right into the bank.... if one bot gets banned they just replace it with another and it does the exact same thing....
 

 

I'm pretty sure they do buy KP/ WP.

Just the other day on classic I saw a group of approximately 9 bots walk in front of the Kafra Utility shop, stop there for a few mins, then all left together.

They seem to always be on stand by on the left side of prontera where no players seem to gather.


  • 0

#48 kbred

kbred

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 492 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:chaos

Posted 23 November 2013 - 09:15 AM

Here's one of my opinion, for all the bot that make zenny and sell em. i wont be surprised if the GM or former GM the one doing the boting and selling.

from a game i use to play called crystal saga, the ex GM is the one selling GOLD, funny right? that's why they always get away with it, because they know all the trick of the system. 


  • 0

#49 leiand

leiand

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2070 posts

Posted 23 November 2013 - 09:28 AM

Here's one of my opinion, for all the bot that make zenny and sell em. i wont be surprised if the GM or former GM the one doing the boting and selling.

from a game i use to play called crystal saga, the ex GM is the one selling GOLD, funny right? that's why they always get away with it, because they know all the trick of the system. 

 

Thumbs up bro!.

And there are ways to implement a bot to hunt bots, but since it will affect WoE with lack of materials, which means not so enjoyable WoE for most ppl, the GM's wont get rid of the bots. nor troll in the area.

P2P again.

Haha like why did they bother to merge servers then :P


  • 0

#50 Baturiano

Baturiano

    Too Legit To Quit

  • RO Fungineering
  • 3058 posts
  • LocationToronto Canada
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Valkyrie

Posted 23 November 2013 - 09:37 AM

Thumbs up bro!.

And there are ways to implement a bot to hunt bots, but since it will affect WoE with lack of materials, which means not so enjoyable WoE for most ppl, the GM's wont get rid of the bots. nor troll in the area.

P2P again.

Haha like why did they bother to merge servers then :P

But then again a bot is a machine, a machine is stupid. There is a high chance that the "bot" to ban bots ban new players. It's not an effective way of dealing with it either. You have to kill the source. Where are they putting their zenny? That's what the GMs are doing.


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users