39 replies to this topic

[FluffyMiyu]

Pre-patch recap 1, recap 2, recap 3.

 

I just abandoned my wiz ages ago, so I don't have any level50 left in this server nor willing to level another one here again.

 

I have a few questions regarding the new patch. I'll start from recap thread 1. 

 

1. Fire Explosion.

Is there any other new change especially the animation? I login into my Cres and love the change they made to Cres Tempest and Monk GFist, they don't lock the char in place anymore nor having disgusting animation along with CC. I was hoping for the same for Wiz Fire Explosion.

 

2. Pyromaniac.

So I heard that this skill now generate 0.2% points now (old one is 0.1%) at level5. I don't see any other change except that.

 

3. AoE

Here comes the lulz part about the so called AoE dealer, Wiz. I don't see any change to their AoE other than Meteor Storm. Anything new about Meteor Storm that I should know like, does it still standing still like before or such.

 

4. Theories and practices.

Did all their skills now match well with the skills descriptions? We all know pre-patch wiz skills always stray from what the description says. The descriptions ignored the animation and aftercast. Even now, I login my Sorc I'm still having that aftercast animations in certain skills. 

 

5. Projectiles

Projectiles speed still same? 

 

New significant changes

 

6. Fire and Wind Emblems

I gotta say, I'm quite surprise with these changes. So basically Fire Emblems has become the new dps trigger skill and Wind Emblem has become the new nuke trigger skill. Changes made to these two has opened more variety in Wiz builds we think thoroughly. 

 

I would just either

Activate Fire Emblem > Fire Bolt > Power of Crest > Seal of Explosion > Fireball ~5x (instant cast each) > Flame of Explosion (crit).

or

Activate Wind Emblem > Fire Bolt > Power of Crest > Seal of Explosion > throw any skill x3 (2x damage each) > Flame of Explosion (3x damage)

 

Though I'm leaning towards Wind Emblem because the base 20% bonus cast speed it gave. Probably I'd can try this in Colo,

Pick random target > Wind Emblem > Fire Bolt > Power of Crest > Seal of Explosion > Frost Diver to any low HP > Lightning bolt x4 (4x damage). Most likely for KS, feels like having Sorcerer's V Spear with 0 cd. Wait, what?

 

Or try the harder way for the lulz of it... well probably impossible..

Fire Emblem > Fire Bolt > Power of Crest > Wind Emblem > Fire Bolt x3 (instant cast) > instacast Frost Diver/Power of Crest (while praying to God) > Lightning Bolt x4 (4x damage)

 

7. The #6 related to #5

The new instant cast proc from Fire Emblem, I hope the projectile speed limitation won't limit the balls you can throw. Else, no matter what change they made, those projectiles are still utter crap that needs to take into serious consideration for change, ASAP.

Edited by FluffyMiyu, 21 December 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[AhinaReyoh]

1. Flame Explosion

Has a short cast time now, which invalidates it as a Varetyr Spear counter in PvP. Instead of blasting the target immediately, you throw two fireballs at them, and they're stunned when one of the projectiles hits. It's all around a lot slower to deal damage then the old Flame Explosion, the only advantage is that you don't spend 3 seconds performing an animation while they're stunned. And two hits means easier to get large crit damage, but also easier to miss.

 

2. Pyromaniac

It's still 0.1 per at level 5, but it goes up to level 10 for the 0.2. Not sure I'd want to spend 9 skill points on it when casting is already faster, but will have to see if a min/maxer wants to do the math on that one.

 

3. Meteor Storm

Same ol' Meteor Storm, just with a bit of extra damage due to the Fire Flower bonus and extra levels.

 

5. Projectiles

Projectile speed never changed for anybody.

 

7. Projectile Limit?

Err... there's a limit to flying projectiles? I haven't seen one. You can throw out 4-5 projectiles in the duration of the instant-cast proc, the main limiter is the animation speed of actually throwing them.

 

Also Wizard burns SP fast now too, fortunately Seal Explosion with a Water Seal will usually cover it, but limits your damage boosting options if you do so.

[elvenne]

My observations:

 

Flame Explosion : it's much better now. Cast time=1 sec. Can be reduced by haste. It does 2 hits instead of 6 now. As soon as you are done casting it - you can keep firebolting.

 

Fire emblem instant cast proc: it's awesome. You can cast about  3 FB in the duration of the 5-sec proc. Each of them can proc the fire emblem again. Sometimes you can keep getting many instant casts in a row which (instant casts) makes your fireballs proc more often and you can get pyro stacks faster to use FE more often.

[FluffyMiyu]

Thanks for the inputs. Nice change overall

 

Just clarification for #7. I had them tested with my old wiz upon 0.1 sec cast time, that almost close to instant cast. Theoretically one would assume spamming bolts and seeing flying bolts in a row, but that's not actually the case. No matter how fast it was, I'd still have to wait for the projectile to hit the target before I can send another flying one. That's means, instead of 0.1 sec, I got another limiter as global cd which act as the barrier. So I would like to know, since the new Fire Emblem give changes to instant cast, would that mean that global cd limiter was reduced, or remove at all?

 

Another question about the new Meteor Storm too.

 

 

Same ol' Meteor Storm, just with a bit of extra damage due to the Fire Flower bonus and extra levels.

Does that means we have to cast Fire Flower/Inferno first to get the bonus, or literally Meteor Storm alone is capable of giving the bonus now?

Edited by FluffyMiyu, 22 December 2013 - 09:54 AM.

[stegosaurus]

Thanks for the inputs. Nice change overall

 

Just clarification for #7. I had them tested with my old wiz upon 0.1 sec cast time, that almost close to instant cast. Theoretically one would assume spamming bolts and seeing flying bolts in a row, but that's not actually the case. No matter how fast it was, I'd still have to wait for the projectile to hit the target before I can send another flying one. That's means, instead of 0.1 sec, I got another limiter as global cd which act as the barrier. So I would like to know, since the new Fire Emblem give changes to instant cast, would that mean that global cd limiter was reduced, or remove at all?

 

Another question about the new Meteor Storm too.

Does that means we have to cast Fire Flower/Inferno first to get the bonus, or literally Meteor Storm alone is capable of giving the bonus now?

 

For the first question, I went to test it out just now, and it seems like you can still only have one projectile flying at a time, even with the instant cast proc. I tried it with a stationary monster (Nepenthes) at max range, and I usually started my next cast right before/right as my Firebolt hit the target. (Maybe someone could do some more thorough testing though, since that's not really my best department. x3 )

 

About Meteor Storm, it now has a damage bonus when you use it on a monster that already has the Firestarter DoT on it, but it doesn't add Firestarter itself. So yes, you do need to add it before getting the bonus (either individually or with Inferno). I believe it was an extra 18% damage at level 6.
 

[AhinaReyoh]

Are you guys sure it's not just latency limiting your speed?

 

[elvenne]

I think it is just the usual ~1sec global/animation cd.

 

Probably the projectile speed is also about 20 meters per 1 sec or a bit less, that's why it may seem that you can't have two flying at a time. But the reason is probably the global cd, not 'the projectile rules'.

Edited by elvenne, 22 December 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[FluffyMiyu]

The ss was nicely done lol

I forgot what did I said in some thread somewhere to add for more questions about the changes lol, I'll check them again later.

[lokasenna]

Hmm does popping Ymir Child make Firebolt instacast/lessen CD of Blast Arms? I'm not sure if I'm bugged but it didn't do anything for my cast times, so I reskilled and dropped the transformation for the meantime.

Also hhh dat SP consumption. Only got Water Arms for the recovery, didn't even get down far enough for Ice Wall.

[Uberkafros]

The new fire emblem makes cast speed for wizard a bit irelevant since it can proc multiple times from an allready proc'ed firebolt and turn us into a machine gun.

Aside our broken m atk the new mechaninc has a lot of potential to make us the best dps with instant firebolts - fireballs - and fire explosions.

 

Meteor feels a bit useless even with fireflower on mobs when you compare it to the aoe of physical classes but that might be fixed with how the matk ( now a generic atk) scales for skills from today's patch hopefully.

 

Also from the new stat table Wiz gets bonus atk from investing in INT so the most logical stat investment seems to be max INT rest AGI (for crit) . Given that the absurd hit/miss ratio is dealt with .
 

[lokasenna]

ugh. Does the INT bonus take effect on you guys? I don't see any difference in my stat build. It's like us, Priests, and Knights got left behind in this patch.

[AhinaReyoh]

My damage felt exactly the same as before the patch, so doesn't seem like there was any difference. (Attack formula for Int classes still broken probably.)

[Natenaw]

Pre patch i was at 45 int doing like 700 720ish Firebolt dmg, reset after patch got 70 int got like 40 points damage increase.

[elvenne]

My firebolts were doing about 2k damage and 4k crits, FE crit - about 10k (if all hits landed) pre-Valk. Now it's... 1.1k Firebolts, 2k crits and 5k FE crit   (this is not in colo, just on mobs in the world)

Edited by elvenne, 23 December 2013 - 11:53 PM.

[Fuumaki]

After playing Wizard for almost a week after the patch, I have to say I'm quite disappointed with how the class turned out.

 

Sure, the instant cast Firebolt was a really nice addition, but the damage on Dayr mobs is just depressing, even with Chaos gear and maxed 10/10 Firebolt.  It might just be because of the big increase in mob defense, but it's also the miss rate that takes it's toll.  Things may change once we have Osiris gear, but as of right now, it feels like the wizard class took a deeper dive into mediocrity.

 

Combined with the increased SP drain, I'm using up ridiculous amounts of pots just to farm regular mobs, and in Chaos, I'm using nearly a stack for every 2-3 bosses.

 

Sure, our damage overall has increased after the patch, but we haven't scaled nearly as well as some of the other classes.  I'm hoping that after another patch or two, with the new stat and skill balancing, we'll be able to get a better feel for how the class is performing.  But as of right now, it's just meh.

[FluffyMiyu]

After playing Wizard for almost a week after the patch, I have to say I'm quite disappointed with how the class turned out.

 

Sure, the instant cast Firebolt was a really nice addition, but the damage on Dayr mobs is just depressing, even with Chaos gear and maxed 10/10 Firebolt.  It might just be because of the big increase in mob defense, but it's also the miss rate that takes it's toll.  Things may change once we have Osiris gear, but as of right now, it feels like the wizard class took a deeper dive into mediocrity.

 

Combined with the increased SP drain, I'm using up ridiculous amounts of pots just to farm regular mobs, and in Chaos, I'm using nearly a stack for every 2-3 bosses.

 

Sure, our damage overall has increased after the patch, but we haven't scaled nearly as well as some of the other classes.  I'm hoping that after another patch or two, with the new stat and skill balancing, we'll be able to get a better feel for how the class is performing.  But as of right now, it's just meh.

So basically, wiz did get buffed but also other class.

So.... we are back on square one, no? D:

[Fuumaki]

I forgot to mention that the new Fire Explosion feels like a waste of points.

[FluffyMiyu]

I forgot to mention that the new Fire Explosion feels like a waste of points.

Mind elaborate that?

[lokasenna]

maybe because there are less hits, and with our hilarious hit rate, there's a higher chance of missing? nothing like casting flame explosion and you see three MISS floating up haha.

though I can hit <50 mobs just fine.

[Fuumaki]

Mind elaborate that?

 

 

maybe because there are less hits, and with our hilarious hit rate, there's a higher chance of missing? nothing like casting flame explosion and you see three MISS floating up haha.

though I can hit <50 mobs just fine.

 

The damage on 10/10 Fire Explosion isn't as good as just getting 10/10 Firebolt and spamming that instead.  Fire Explosion is supposed to be our big burst hit, but it doesn't compare to just spamming our main skill.

 

 Edit: After further testing, 10/10 Flame Explosion is pretty good, but probably only once you have some extra skill points.  In my opinion, it's still better to max out Firebolt first.  

 

I haven't tested Pyromaniac yet, but I'll get there eventually.

Edited by Fuumaki, 24 December 2013 - 10:07 PM.

[FluffyMiyu]

So I heard the new Flame Explosion now can hit up to 30k. How was it compared to other class?

(taking all skills between class into considerations)

[2186130521195602510]

So I heard the new Flame Explosion now can hit up to 30k. How was it compared to other class?

(taking all skills between class into considerations)

This. I've been doing some testing,

I have 3700-ish MATK right now and my Flame Explosion does around 3,2k normal and around 5 - 6k critical per hit. This was tested only with Flame Emblem and Dragonology.
Still, it's hard as hell to land 2 crits with Flame Explosion, but now I feel that Fireball and Fireball mastery are a waste of points (With Firebolt in 10 and Flame Explosion in 10)
Firebolt gets more automatic attacks and the Pyro bar loads pretty fast, enough to land some nice damage over a minute.
I have stopped from using Fireball after the patch (Even before re-doing my build).

What's your oppinion on actual Fireball and FB Mastery?

[elvenne]

FE lvl 5 crits for ~5k with +20% matk boost on. No idea how someone could do 30 k with it.

 

Look at my screenies in this topic. (sorry to lazy to reupload)

 

Problem is, Firebolt damage sucks after the patch too. (~1100k hit)

 

I used to do almost twice as much damage with these skills pre-patch.

Edited by elvenne, 25 December 2013 - 01:18 PM.

[2186130521195602510]

FE lvl 5 crits for ~5k with +20% matk boost on. No idea how someone could do 30 k with it.

 

Look at my screenies in this topic. (sorry to lazy to reupload)

 

Problem is, Firebolt damage sucks after the patch too. (~1100k hit)

 

I used to do almost twice as much damage with these skills pre-patch.

I still sacrificated my Meteor Storm (Since LOL, Inferno>MS) and FB+FBM since Fireball's animation is longer than Firebolt's (I know the issue of the lower damage of Firebolt).
At least, that works for me, I also tried a new build using Wind Arms and still didn't manage to do as much DPS as with Fire Emblem. 
I need to know if we will land more damage than before or not, because, as much as I like the new Wizard gameplay, I feel more like a "Int Buff" more than an actual DPS (Compared with Ranger, Warrior, Assassin, Rogue and Cresc).
But well, who knows.

[AhinaReyoh]

This. I've been doing some testing,

I have 3700-ish MATK right now and my Flame Explosion does around 3,2k normal and around 5 - 6k critical per hit. This was tested only with Flame Emblem and Dragonology.
Still, it's hard as hell to land 2 crits with Flame Explosion, but now I feel that Fireball and Fireball mastery are a waste of points (With Firebolt in 10 and Flame Explosion in 10)
Firebolt gets more automatic attacks and the Pyro bar loads pretty fast, enough to land some nice damage over a minute.
I have stopped from using Fireball after the patch (Even before re-doing my build).

What's your oppinion on actual Fireball and FB Mastery?

 

Not sure why you're tossing out Fireball. It does more damage then Fire Bolt, plus it applies a DoT as well. The throw animation is different from Fire Bolt's, but it's basically the same duration. In one Fire Seal proc I can throw 2 Fireballs and 3 Fire Bolts, or 5 Fire Bolts. Since the Fireballs do more damage, why settle for less? The only downside is the higher SP cost, and of course skill point usage.

 

Fireball Mastery I'm not as sure about, since it's possible to see it as redundant because of the new Fire Seal proc. But even at 30% the Fire Seal proc can go a while without triggering, so Fireball Mastery isn't entirely useless.