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#1 Heimdallr

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:55 PM

What is bugged, or undesirable about the Geneticists?

What skills are fine, need tweaking?
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#2 scraps345

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:59 PM

Please make cannon balls to not unequip when we die it gets tedious and sometimes forget it becomes unequipped when you are mobbing.
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#3 Doddler

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 01:04 PM

I think the only real balance issues with Geneticist is that they have no fixed cast time on their skills. Their strongest skills, Cart Cannon, Hell's Plant, Thorn Wall, and Crazy Vines can all be instant cast with a mjolnir or an extreme build, and have no skill specific cooldown making them super spammable.
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#4 Kitten

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 01:12 PM

A very short fixed casttime on some skills is fair. But don't make it ridiculously excessive.

It's nice to see this class branch finally having more to it than just bombs, so please don't destroy it with unrealistic cast times. And as most of their skills, with the exception of Cart Cannon since the ammo is cheap, require expensive and hard to find catalysts I'd say things are pretty balanced. I really don't see a problem with people with the resources to acquire the items having a bit more power behind them.
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#5 pomdjyer

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 02:57 PM

A very short fixed casttime on some skills is fair. But don't make it ridiculously excessive.

It's nice to see this class branch finally having more to it than just bombs, so please don't destroy it with unrealistic cast times. And as most of their skills, with the exception of Cart Cannon since the ammo is cheap, require expensive and hard to find catalysts I'd say things are pretty balanced. I really don't see a problem with people with the resources to acquire the items having a bit more power behind them.


qft

playing a genetic is way more interesting than before it seems, it just needs a little bit fix cast time and everything will be good.
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#6 rayy

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 02:58 PM

Hells plant - 50k per cast , Crazy Vines - 200k per cast, Thorn Wall - 200k per cast. These are all extremely expensive skills to spam in WoE
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#7 Sera

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 03:30 PM

Howling of Mandragora should not affect skills with no inherent cast times.
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#8 Kitten

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:05 PM

Ah Valk. The land of botted WoE supplies.

Let not the inherent problems of your server lead to the unnecessary nerf of a class.
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#9 Kaden14

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:26 PM

Ah Valk. The land of botted WoE supplies.

Let not the inherent problems of your server lead to the unnecessary nerf of a class.


which post is this directed at?
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#10 Ralis

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:08 PM

Damage from Genetic skills needs to be changed to reducible. Cart Cannon's damage can be extremely high and there is no way to lower the damage.

Hell's Plant has no drawback. It is basically an extremely cheap and more effective Acid Bomb. Either materials need to be required or damage needs to be reduced.

Other than that, I agree with Doddler on the cast times... Not too long, but at least interruptable.
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#11 SethTheSecond

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 09:28 PM

Yes. The main problem with geneticists is that All their third class skills have NO fixed cast times. They are all completely variable, and with god items, instant cast can be aquired, producing some absurd damage output with cart cannon and hell's plant. The skills would be fine otherwise, since most of the skills require either items that are hard to produce or difficult to acquire, with maybe the exception of cart cannon.

Skills i propose to have a fixed cast time added

Mandragora howling: 0.5 - 1 sec fixed cast time
Cart cannon 0.5 - 1 sec fixed cast time
Hell's plant: 0.5 - 1 sec fixed cast time
Crazy weed - 0.5 - 1 sec fixed cast time
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#12 yoon

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:35 PM

Only thing that needs to balance out is Howling. No need to nerf the other stuff.. if you are seriously dying to cart cannon, You need to go lvl up and get some more hp.
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#13 rayy

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 04:27 AM

Again we have level 110's with no gear posting about how they are dying to level 150s. Seriously, level up before you complain about imbalance issues. That being said, the only skill that needs to be looked at is Mandragora Howling. This skill should not affect skills where they have no cast times to begin with.

Edited by rayy, 02 November 2010 - 04:31 AM.

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#14 Kaden14

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 04:57 AM

Without god items, cart cannon damage is a joke. With god items, it does moderate/high damage but it's a killing class without a ton of survivability so it should be doing high damage with god items.

Like many people have mentioned before, pneuma, mist and defending aura render cart cannon useless. Also, GR does reduce the damage from cart cannon by about half, even if they endow. A GR is much easier to get than the 2-4 god items you need to make cart cannon damage somewhat high so it's a reasonable counter. I'm taking like 4-5k from a stacked genetic's cart cannon in woe which is pretty negligible, especially coming from a class that's so easy to kill like genetics.

You guys are calling for all of these shortsighted nerfs based on your experience as a low level 3rd job not understanding what 3/4 of the new skills do. You do realize that you're going to have like 2-3x more hp than you do now at 150 right? If the GMs take your bad advice and start nerfing all of the killing skills, nobody will ever die once the server is 150.
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#15 meoryou2

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 05:20 AM

Please make cannon balls to not unequip when we die it gets tedious and sometimes forget it becomes unequipped when you are mobbing.


This, if sin class and hunter / rogue classes don't get arrows un-equipped with a death why should our cannon balls get un-equipped?

And leave the rest of our skills alone, utterly destroying skills because of effects from god items is stupid. As Doddler said without god items you have to have an insanely stupid build to get even close to insta cast on any skills.

Reduce the cast time on acid bomb, with the new skills other classes have now it just makes it so WE can't get MVP anymore because they are now out DPSing us with skills that do as much or MORE damage with shorter cast times.
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#16 Tolrin

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 05:25 AM

Without god items, cart cannon damage is a joke. With god items, it does moderate/high damage but it's a killing class without a ton of survivability so it should be doing high damage with god items.

Like many people have mentioned before, pneuma, mist and defending aura render cart cannon useless. Also, GR does reduce the damage from cart cannon by about half, even if they endow. A GR is much easier to get than the 2-4 god items you need to make cart cannon damage somewhat high so it's a reasonable counter. I'm taking like 4-5k from a stacked genetic's cart cannon in woe which is pretty negligible, especially coming from a class that's so easy to kill like genetics.

You guys are calling for all of these shortsighted nerfs based on your experience as a low level 3rd job not understanding what 3/4 of the new skills do. You do realize that you're going to have like 2-3x more hp than you do now at 150 right? If the GMs take your bad advice and start nerfing all of the killing skills, nobody will ever die once the server is 150.


110% this. I am playing a 12000 hp warlock and the god item stacked geneticist in my guild doesn't do enough damage to stop me from living; cart cannon especially is not hard to outpot.

I would maybe agree with 0.5 second fixed casts on a few of the geneticist skills being fair, and I would agree that howling of mandragora has some... issues with it's current balance, mainly the fact that no stat reduces it's effectiveness.
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#17 rayy

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 05:44 AM

VIT / luk reduces chance of howling (it says so on description)

Edited by rayy, 02 November 2010 - 05:44 AM.

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#18 Kaden14

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 06:11 AM

VIT / luk reduces chance of howling (it says so on description)


I think those stats are supposed to reduce the chance, but on the test server we maxed those stats and it didn't seem to help at all.
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#19 Hrishi

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 07:36 AM

VIT/LUK didn't seem to reduce the chance at all when I tested it on the test server =/. It failed a few times, but I think that's the inherent chance to fail?
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#20 DrAzzy

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 08:29 AM

VIT / luk reduces chance of howling (it says so on description)


It apparently doesn't actually effect the chance of howling.
Fixing this is a must.
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#21 Ralis

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:38 AM

Cart Boost makes Genetics faster than me. ;-;
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#22 Wassail

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:31 PM

well, i now have something like 14 skill levels, so i havent exactly explored every facet of geneticist, but here are my thoughts so far:

+1 for fixing the cannon ball unequip, its just annoying. even more important though is the issue with balls & elements. i dont know whether weapon element or endows are supposed to carry over, or if it is supposed to be a neutral only attack, but i do know that the ghost balls are totally useless at the moment, unless maybe they affect damage to people wearing GR?

cart tornado seems to be a slightly improved version of cart rev, which, especially when compared to other skill choices, is a fairly useless skill. maybe i didnt give it a fair shot, but from the experimenting i have done with it, it is very low dps compared to cannon, & is more difficult to use because of the knockback. almost every time i tackled a mob, either i or the mob ended up position lagged so i couldnt continue the attack without repositioning.

i havent tried crafting or using the thorny seeds yet, but i am concerned with the seeming scarcity of prickly fruits. is there really no source for these other than a handful of beholders spread over 3 or 4 medium to large maps, & the monster in one woe 2.0 dungeon? at 30% success, & needing 10 fruit per seed, the skill seems likely to become so expensive & unused as to be totally worthless

as for the other thoughts expressed, i wouldnt really object to a small fixed cast or cast delay, seems only fair as practically every other class has to deal with it. i would ask that it replace some of the current cast, rather than add to it & increase the overall cast times. i havent had a chance to use some of the more entertaining skills yet, like crazy weed or HoM, but i would think we need more time to experiment before deciding to start nerfing things. one allowance i would make to what Ralis-who-has-never-played-geneticist-&-who's-opinion-should-be-taken-with-a-grain-of-salt posted, im not sure why cannon & hells plant are unreduceable by normal means, it seems like an arbitrary decision, especially now that def affects acid demonstration (it does right? im almost sure i read that recently)

oh, and one other MAJOR complaint/issue, i assume this is a general problem & not limited to geneticist, but PLEASE fix the medal of honor's. i slaved away in BG well before renewal hit just so i could have boosted atk & matk, as well as the other benefits, but instead have been stuck with str rings because, at least as far as i can tell, the atk & matk boosts dont work.
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#23 Miii

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 04:54 AM

Genetic skills are okay. Don't change anything please ^^; people just need to stop QQ'ing and level up instead crying on how they die to a skill or another.
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#24 Rumm

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 05:18 AM

As Doddler said, add cast time to cart cannon, hells plant, crazy weed, thorn trap please. Of all of these, especially Hells plant. An instant, hard-to-see 16,000~22,000 unreducable trap attack that can be placed under a target is very Over powered. Same thing with huge ranged instant damage with cart cannon. Despite what's been claimed here, I've gone into pvp with 57% demi resistance and still taken instant hits of 16,000 from a genetic. The cast times don't have to be huge, just fixed of 1 second each (thus cut to .5 by sacramenti)

Edited by Rumm, 03 November 2010 - 05:22 AM.

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#25 Doddler

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 06:22 AM

Cart Tornado can be used quite effectively. Oddly I think level 2-3 are best because of the delay time being shorter than level 5. Here's an example:


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