415 replies to this topic

[rayy]

As Doddler said, add cast time to cart cannon, hells plant, crazy weed, thorn trap please. Of all of these, especially Hells plant. An instant, hard-to-see 16,000~22,000 unreducable trap attack that can be placed under a target is very Over powered. Same thing with huge ranged instant damage with cart cannon. Despite what's been claimed here, I've gone into pvp with 57% demi resistance and still taken instant hits of 16,000 from a genetic. The cast times don't have to be huge, just fixed of 1 second each (thus cut to .5 by sacramenti)

Hi, wear a ghostring; it reduces damage from cart cannon by half. Also it seems that you still do not realize how hard it is to hunt the required reagents to cast these skills you list, so let me post it again: crazy weed, thorn trap= 200k+ per cast, howling= 250k+ per cast, hells plant = 50k+ per cast. Also the fact that you are probably in your 110's-120s and complaining about dying to higher leveled characters doesnt help your claim here

Edited by rayy, 03 November 2010 - 08:13 AM.

[Wassail]

yeah, i've seen that vid, one shot in magma 2, & maybe a couple others, but i think they actually support my point. that person has a line of buffs, god items, the +7 HF etc, & they are getting 6-7k hits while i am wearing mediocre gears, & with only cart boost & crazy uproar i get 8k+

i dont know, maybe its just a difference in playstyle, but i found tornado to be pretty underwhelming

somewhat related to this, what's the deal with cart cannon, is it supposed to be a semi-aoe, or is that a bug, will it stay that way, or will it be changed to match the description of a single-target skill? I much prefer it as it is, but i will acknowledge that part of why tornado isnt very appealing is that cannon is (imo) a better aoe attack, but if cannon were truly a single-target skill...

[meoryou2]

As Doddler said, add cast time to cart cannon, hells plant, crazy weed, thorn trap please. Of all of these, especially Hells plant. An instant, hard-to-see 16,000~22,000 unreducable trap attack that can be placed under a target is very Over powered. Same thing with huge ranged instant damage with cart cannon. Despite what's been claimed here, I've gone into pvp with 57% demi resistance and still taken instant hits of 16,000 from a genetic. The cast times don't have to be huge, just fixed of 1 second each (thus cut to .5 by sacramenti)

piss off, have you SEEN the friggin cast times WITHOUT GOD ITEMS? kRO wanted the alchemist class buffed for a reason, because we either A: pretty much sucked in PvP since we came out or B: have always needed to spend massive amounts of zeny to do ANY kind of damage.

And all you people whining that it can't be reduced.... try MDEF since it is mostly based on INT, it does a LOT less damage on high MDEF characters. But NO! lets destroy the one skill set the alchy class gets that actually works decently without a billion zeny bankroll.

And you whiners complaining " from accross the screen" then zoom out, it's like a 9-10 cell range less than half a screen.

[Miii]

I still don't agree to put fixed cast time on these skills, then as well put fixed cast time on other classes as well =/ genetic is still the most expensive class anyways.

I also don't like that there's a npc in lighthalzen selling poison herbs and stuff for GX, might as well put a npc selling geneticist stuff too =/
Prickly fruits are hard enough to get with the spawn amount of baholders in rachel sanc. and the drop rate xP

Edited by Miii, 03 November 2010 - 09:19 AM.

[Ralis]

piss off, have you SEEN the friggin cast times WITHOUT GOD ITEMS? kRO wanted the alchemist class buffed for a reason, because we either A: pretty much sucked in PvP since we came out or B: have always needed to spend massive amounts of zeny to do ANY kind of damage.

And all you people whining that it can't be reduced.... try MDEF since it is mostly based on INT, it does a LOT less damage on high MDEF characters. But NO! lets destroy the one skill set the alchy class gets that actually works decently without a billion zeny bankroll.

And you whiners complaining " from accross the screen" then zoom out, it's like a 9-10 cell range less than half a screen.

Most guilds supply the Acid Bombs for WoE. If you're paying for your WoE supplies, something's wrong, so don't complain about the expense.

As for leveling, I think the fact that most of the characters that are already 140+ are all Genetics shows that they have skills that are a little TOO good now. Especially when there's the fact that they are one of the top MVPing classes and already gaining -_-tons of EXP from those.

[meoryou2]

Most guilds supply the Acid Bombs for WoE. If you're paying for your WoE supplies, something's wrong, so don't complain about the expense.

As for leveling, I think the fact that most of the characters that are already 140+ are all Genetics shows that they have skills that are a little TOO good now. Especially when there's the fact that they are one of the top MVPing classes and already gaining -_-tons of EXP from those.

WoE is boring as crap now anyways. Your guild gonna give me bombs / thorn seeds / plant bottles / yggs / blues and all the crap I need to MVP? Doubt it. Can't MVP worth a crap anyways untill you are high enough level to have almost 100 STR 100 INT because of the new retarded formula now anyways, otherwise it just takes even LONGER. damage mod cards don't even seem to be working like I read they where supposed to be.

And maybe they are on your little toy server but I've seen a Whole 2 150 geneticists on ymir... and a ton of sura and AB combos or sura and sorc ( more rare because exhale is crap now ).... Sounds like you are just mad from the shield reflect nerfs.

[Ralis]

WoE is boring as crap now anyways. Your guild gonna give me bombs / thorn seeds / plant bottles / yggs / blues and all the crap I need to MVP? Doubt it. Can't MVP worth a crap anyways untill you are high enough level to have almost 100 STR 100 INT because of the new retarded formula now anyways, otherwise it just takes even LONGER. damage mod cards don't even seem to be working like I read they where supposed to be.

And maybe they are on your little toy server but I've seen a Whole 2 150 geneticists on ymir... and a ton of sura and AB combos or sura and sorc ( more rare because exhale is crap now ).... Sounds like you are just mad from the shield reflect nerfs.

My nerfs are in regards to WoE, so I'm not entirely sure what your issue is then. Cart Cannon and Hell's Plant shouldn't be unreducable and they need more of a fixed cast time so insta-cast is not obtainable.

If you MVP alone, anyways, you're usually going to get a lot more than you spend in the first place.

Lastly, what Shield Reflect nerfs? They improved it in terms of Reflect Damage. It is still entirely possible to reflect MVPs (based on the formula given on irowiki), just as it is possible to still dead cell them.

[Miii]

My nerfs are in regards to WoE, so I'm not entirely sure what your issue is then. Cart Cannon and Hell's Plant shouldn't be unreducable and they need more of a fixed cast time so insta-cast is not obtainable.

If you MVP alone, anyways, you're usually going to get a lot more than you spend in the first place.

Lastly, what Shield Reflect nerfs? They improved it in terms of Reflect Damage. It is still entirely possible to reflect MVPs (based on the formula given on irowiki), just as it is possible to still dead cell them.

Wear a ghost armor, that's your only reducable armor, if we are talking about pvp.

Edited by Miii, 03 November 2010 - 03:34 PM.

[Ralis]

Because Ghostring Cards pop up like candy on Valk. @@

[meoryou2]

So stack MDEF like I said. MDEF wearing characters took less ( sometimes a LOT less ) damage than people who just tried to stack racial reducs and stuff. I'm betting it's getting a very large portion of it's damage as almost a magical attack, with part of the damage calc being physical too since ATK raises the damage as well. The main stat for damage is INT though. It almost seems like it is like SD from sinX class with an ice pick DEF ignoring effect added in.

[Ralis]

So stack MDEF like I said. MDEF wearing characters took less ( sometimes a LOT less ) damage than people who just tried to stack racial reducs and stuff. I'm betting it's getting a very large portion of it's damage as almost a magical attack, with part of the damage calc being physical too since ATK raises the damage as well. The main stat for damage is INT though. It almost seems like it is like SD from sinX class with an ice pick DEF ignoring effect added in.

...Only it's not, and they can wear whatever weapon and cards they'd like to increase damage by even more.

Regardless of MDEF, our own reducs against race and element need to affect the skill. There isn't really a reason for it to bypass them anyways.

[meoryou2]

...Only it's not, and they can wear whatever weapon and cards they'd like to increase damage by even more.

Regardless of MDEF, our own reducs against race and element need to affect the skill. There isn't really a reason for it to bypass them anyways.

Ummm, SinX can wear whatever weapons they want to raise ATK as well, and icepick effect on DEF _WORKS_ with Soul Destroyer. It doesn't with cannon - it does abysmal attacks with icepick because of the low attack from the dagger.
As fo why reducs don't work? maybe because the Dvs didn't want em to? Maybe there is a new TYPE of damage that we haven't gotten reduc cards for yet? Maybe because no matter what armor / whatever you may happen to be wearing you are getting hit with a CANNON BALL? Maybe one Dev decided to not take his drugs for the day and made a rational decision?


OH, BTW nice avioding the MDEF MDEF MDEF MDEF issue. Guess it is easier to complain than, oh I don't know, have a friend, and test. Nope, guess it's easier to tell me I don't know how to play my main class huh? I plan on testing more, it may be other gear besides MDEF that was reducing damage but I know there was no GR / DR wearers when I was testing.

[Ralis]

Ummm, SinX can wear whatever weapons they want to raise ATK as well, and icepick effect on DEF _WORKS_ with Soul Destroyer. It doesn't with cannon - it does abysmal attacks with icepick because of the low attack from the dagger.
As fo why reducs don't work? maybe because the Dvs didn't want em to? Maybe there is a new TYPE of damage that we haven't gotten reduc cards for yet? Maybe because no matter what armor / whatever you may happen to be wearing you are getting hit with a CANNON BALL? Maybe one Dev decided to not take his drugs for the day and made a rational decision?


OH, BTW nice avioding the MDEF MDEF MDEF MDEF issue. Guess it is easier to complain than, oh I don't know, have a friend, and test. Nope, guess it's easier to tell me I don't know how to play my main class huh? I plan on testing more, it may be other gear besides MDEF that was reducing damage but I know there was no GR / DR wearers when I was testing.

I didn't avoid it, I simply don't think it matters that MDEF affects it. Exactly how much does MDEF block of the skill, and exactly how much MDEF is needed for it to really make a difference? Very few classes are going to have a high MDEF stat, and they're usually the ones with low HP, so I doubt it's really going to matter all that much.

As for the Ice Picks, if a SinX is wearing an Ice Pick... They don't get another weapon on that hand. That IS their weapon. If they choose to wear another weapon, they forfeit their shield, which... Guess what, probably has their Thara Frog in it. As most of us are saying, it doesn't matter that an Ice Pick doesn't work anyways because the damage is already so stinking high and reducs do not affect it. As for why Devs made things the way they did, who knows? As we can see on jRO, however, it was deemed that there were a lot of mistakes made with Renewal, and it's been messed with, tweaked, etc., and now we're doing the same.

I'm not saying you don't know how to play your class. I'm not sure where that's coming from. It isn't surprising, though, that those that play the classes that people are calling for nerfs on are always the ones against it.

[meoryou2]

I didn't avoid it, I simply don't think it matters that MDEF affects it. Exactly how much does MDEF block of the skill, and exactly how much MDEF is needed for it to really make a difference? Very few classes are going to have a high MDEF stat, and they're usually the ones with low HP, so I doubt it's really going to matter all that much.

As for the Ice Picks, if a SinX is wearing an Ice Pick... They don't get another weapon on that hand. That IS their weapon. If they choose to wear another weapon, they forfeit their shield, which... Guess what, probably has their Thara Frog in it. As most of us are saying, it doesn't matter that an Ice Pick doesn't work anyways because the damage is already so stinking high and reducs do not affect it. As for why Devs made things the way they did, who knows? As we can see on jRO, however, it was deemed that there were a lot of mistakes made with Renewal, and it's been messed with, tweaked, etc., and now we're doing the same.

I'm not saying you don't know how to play your class. I'm not sure where that's coming from. It isn't surprising, though, that those that play the classes that people are calling for nerfs on are always the ones against it.

How is your icepick argument any different? The highest one handed weapon equip-able for average non billionaire players that I am aware of is a over upgraded zipper bear swordmace. Only ATK cards seem to affect cart cannon at all. Maybe the carga is one handed maybe not, haven't seen a DB for it to look and haven't got one while hunting.

And " no one wears MDEF" well La De Da. Maybe if the caster classes weren't basically thrown away because everyone complained how "bad" their damage was instead of getting MDEF people would actually USE mdef gears now that everyone has at least a usable amount of MDEF.

Nah, lets get rid of anything that does damage so we can all brainlessly bash each other in epic 10 day battles in WoE. What really gets me is no one bitched this much about gfist.... champ / monk goes in with a scholar attached at the hip and wipes everybody thats fine.... genetic goes in with half a servers worth of god items and kills lower leveled players and "OMFG NERF NERF NERF". I can't wait to see the mobs grabbing the pitchforks when the AoE acid bomb is used more - especially since it is NOT ranged.

Oh yeah, pneuma and blinding mist and guard and some crappy RG skill ALL work against it as well. SO, don't wanna die? Huddle in pnuema and snipe, keep guard up, wear MDEF gears and get some VIT. Pretty sure rapid smite and spear boom also have a longer range than the like 9 cells I have too.

[Ralis]

How is your icepick argument any different? The highest one handed weapon equip-able for average non billionaire players that I am aware of is a over upgraded zipper bear swordmace. Only ATK cards seem to affect cart cannon at all. Maybe the carga is one handed maybe not, haven't seen a DB for it to look and haven't got one while hunting.

And " no one wears MDEF" well La De Da. Maybe if the caster classes weren't basically thrown away because everyone complained how "bad" their damage was instead of getting MDEF people would actually USE mdef gears now that everyone has at least a usable amount of MDEF.

Nah, lets get rid of anything that does damage so we can all brainlessly bash each other in epic 10 day battles in WoE. What really gets me is no one bitched this much about gfist.... champ / monk goes in with a scholar attached at the hip and wipes everybody thats fine.... genetic goes in with half a servers worth of god items and kills lower leveled players and "OMFG NERF NERF NERF". I can't wait to see the mobs grabbing the pitchforks when the AoE acid bomb is used more - especially since it is NOT ranged.

Oh yeah, pneuma and blinding mist and guard and some crappy RG skill ALL work against it as well. SO, don't wanna die? Huddle in pnuema and snipe, keep guard up, wear MDEF gears and get some VIT. Pretty sure rapid smite and spear boom also have a longer range than the like 9 cells I have too.

You're the one who brought up the Ice Pick argument in the first place, not me. Cart Cannon just ignores defense period anyways, so it's really not even comparable to an Ice Pick where on a class with low DEF it's kind of worthless.

For MDEF, again, this is about reducs affecting Cart Cannon. I don't give a crap if MDEF or even regular DEF affects it. My gear that's meant to reduce all damage from ALL Demi-Humans isn't working for these skills.

Once again, not saying to get rid of it. It simply needs to be affected by reducs and be changed so instacast is not possible with God Items while at the same time not screwing over the regular players, IE less Dex-affected time and more fixed time.

Even with the Scholar Champs are still limited. Cart Cannon is a SPAMMABLE AoE right now, while GFist takes ALL SP, time to get skills set up for and only hits one person. Not to mention GFist is a close-ranged attack and can't be casted from 9 cells away.

Rapid Smite has a range of about 2 cells, actually. Not sure for Spear Boom as that's a Knight skill, but yes, Cannon Spear does have a range of 11 cells, but guess what... It's actually reduced properly.

[Miii]

Sure let's nerf genetics now and let it suck again.

Again, acid bomb already has fixed cast, that's enough, right?
Use hide clip like many of those players that hide my cannons / acid bombs

you are a RG, you should be able to survive that (if you are a decent RG, of course)

Don't forget that, genetics are the most expensive class, not like RK's that take 15 sp to do a huge damage with CS ~__~ or any other like rangers (instant cast traps with masive damage as well)
Like I said before, if we are going to put fixed cast time, then as well think on putting fixed cast on reflect damage, CS, shadow perf. etc, right?

[Ralis]

Sure let's nerf genetics now and let it suck again.

Again, acid bomb already has fixed cast, that's enough, right?
Use hide clip like many of those players that hide my cannons / acid bombs

you are a RG, you should be able to survive that (if you are a decent RG, of course)

Don't forget that, genetics are the most expensive class, not like RK's that take 15 sp to do a huge damage with CS ~__~ or any other like rangers (instant cast traps with masive damage as well)
Like I said before, if we are going to put fixed cast time, then as well think on putting fixed cast on reflect damage, CS, shadow perf. etc, right?

It takes a few normal Cart Cannons to take me down, yes, but I still feel as if reducs should affect it, especially with the God Item abuse it's been getting. Double Megs and a Mjolnir hurts like hell. (Mjolnir = Why a portion of the Dex affected time needs to be changed to fixed)

Acid Bomb has kind of lost its use when you have skills like these, so nope, I don't think it's enough.

And sure to the time on the other skills, I wouldn't mind it.

[Frappuccino]

it's funny that ralis is complaining about genetics yet doesn't post about his own class being op. hi2u broken VALKYRJA'S SHIELD.

oh wait, everyone does this, what am i saying

[rayy]

hi ralis please shed some light to the community on what level you are

[Rumm]

You're the one who brought up the Ice Pick argument in the first place, not me. Cart Cannon just ignores defense period anyways, so it's really not even comparable to an Ice Pick where on a class with low DEF it's kind of worthless.

For MDEF, again, this is about reducs affecting Cart Cannon. I don't give a crap if MDEF or even regular DEF affects it. My gear that's meant to reduce all damage from ALL Demi-Humans isn't working for these skills.

Once again, not saying to get rid of it. It simply needs to be affected by reducs and be changed so instacast is not possible with God Items while at the same time not screwing over the regular players, IE less Dex-affected time and more fixed time.

Even with the Scholar Champs are still limited. Cart Cannon is a SPAMMABLE AoE right now, while GFist takes ALL SP, time to get skills set up for and only hits one person. Not to mention GFist is a close-ranged attack and can't be casted from 9 cells away.

Rapid Smite has a range of about 4 cells, actually. Not sure for Spear Boom as that's a Knight skill, but yes, Cannon Spear does have a range of 11 cells, but guess what... It's actually reduced properly.

this.

Don't get so over defensive about minor cast time adjustments to genetic skills. It's not like we're saying, hey add +3seconds of fixed cast time to everything you do. Ironically that's exactly what genetics can do to every other class >________>; What's up with these 'when genetics suck again' comments? They have NEVER sucked. period.
Also... you all forget how much more amazing gens will be with homucS.

Edited by Rumm, 04 November 2010 - 03:27 AM.

[rayy]

hi rumm please shed some light to the community on what level you are

[Miii]

If you think EVERYONE on server has god items, you are wrong, there are a few Mjolnirs on valk so don't complain about it, OH btw, I heard cannon is pottable, really!
1 second fixed cast is a lot. So I still don't agree.

Edited by Miii, 04 November 2010 - 07:05 AM.

[Ralis]

hi ralis please shed some light to the community on what level you are

116, though I don't really see how level affects a skill that can't be reduced.

[Ralis]

If you think EVERYONE on server has god items, you are wrong, there are a few Mjolnirs on valk so don't complain about it, OH btw, I heard cannon is pottable, really!
1 second fixed cast is a lot. So I still don't agree.

Of course everyone doesn't have them, but they've become such common items in the larger guilds that it's becoming a problem. 15-20k hits with CC + Hell's Plant doesn't really make things very pottable. A 1 second fixed cast time right now? From what I saw last Saturday I don't think so, but if it is then extend it to 1.5 or 2 seconds and remove some of the DEX affected time, or give it a longer after-cast delay.

[Spinzaku]

Genetics are fine.

Mandragora Howling shouldn't affect skills that have no cast time to begin with, but you can just counter it with using the skill against those who use it against you. The skill is pretty bad if you're level 110 and you're fighting level 135+ players but on an even level you have access to skills that allow you to play against it. Cart Cannon does a lot of damage because the players who are killing the most with it are wearing 2 megs/mjolnir.. it's supposed to hurt. Once players decide to get to a high level then it won't be that bad. Just because a bunch of players who are lv110 complain about a skill that is being casted by a lv150 doesn't mean its broken or does too much damage.

Edited by Spinzaku, 04 November 2010 - 10:13 AM.