Shadow Chaser - Specific Renewal Feedback - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo

Shadow Chaser


  • Please log in to reply
188 replies to this topic

#1 Heimdallr

Heimdallr

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Community Managers
  • 3651 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 01 November 2010 - 02:50 PM

What is bugged, or undesirable about the Shadow Chaser?

What skills are fine, need tweaking?
  • 0

#2 Viri

Viri

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 6295 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 01 November 2010 - 02:53 PM

Gonna shoot myself in the foot on these I can feel it...

Shadow form is castable in PvM... even on non party members. Meaning you can grab a nasty mob, take off your gear and walk over to someone and kill them instantly. This one has no use in PvM and should be disabled on non pvp/WoE maps.

Chaos panic does not need to be castable in towns... this DOES have uses in PvM though so please DO NOT disable it on pvm maps.
Same goes for manhole.(Was removed from being castable in town)
Same goes for dimension door.(Was removed from being castable in town)
  • 0

#3 Shanden

Shanden

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 280 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Valk

Posted 01 November 2010 - 03:30 PM

Manhole on the Ground instead of a person?

My guild leader and I were playing around in PvP, and he couldn't manhole me if I was moving on my RK, I moved way to fast for his poor little cast time bar to finish.

By putting in on the ground it could allow them to use it and based on their cast bar give us a better chance to hit the spot with it.
  • 0

#4 brandon

brandon

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 80 posts
  • Location5 dolla holla
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Valkyrie

Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:31 PM

Should not be allowed to cast Manhole right under a character and trap them if they do not step onto it and you can keep someone "permanently" trapped until the Shadow Chaser stops casting Manhole next to the trapped character.

I think characters on a PecoPeco should automatically get their PecoPeco back when Masquerade Gloomy ends rather than having to go back to the NPC to get it back.

Shadow Form needs a cast time similar to Sacrifice since they are virtually impossible to kill.
  • 1

#5 Ralis

Ralis

    [TOS] The Man Trap

  • VMod Retired
  • 6982 posts
  • LocationFlorida
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Classic

Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:18 PM

Manhole is castable under a target and is not supposed to be. It can also be spammed indefinitely to keep a player trapped.

Mount stripping goes a bit too far, methinks. Going to repair gear is one thing, as I can carry multiple armors and what not on me at the same time, but I have to go back to get my ride EVERY SINGLE TIME it's stripped, and there is only the one in Prontera. Either get rid of this skill altogether or have the ride come back once Gloomy has run out, the player has died or the player has relogged.
  • 1

#6 Pred

Pred

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 200 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:24 PM

Manhole is castable under a target and is not supposed to be. It can also be spammed indefinitely to keep a player trapped.

Mount stripping goes a bit too far, methinks. Going to repair gear is one thing, as I can carry multiple armors and what not on me at the same time, but I have to go back to get my ride EVERY SINGLE TIME it's stripped, and there is only the one in Prontera. Either get rid of this skill altogether or have the ride come back once Gloomy has run out, the player has died or the player has relogged.


Another solution for Gloomy would be to put Peco rentals in the WoE kafra NPCs, while there, put Mado rentals as well. If they can make the mount come back after Gloomy that'd be the optimal solution, but if that's not possible, put the rental option in the WoE kafra NPCs.
  • 0

#7 Ralis

Ralis

    [TOS] The Man Trap

  • VMod Retired
  • 6982 posts
  • LocationFlorida
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Classic

Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:26 PM

Another solution for Gloomy would be to put Peco rentals in the WoE kafra NPCs, while there, put Mado rentals as well. If they can make the mount come back after Gloomy that'd be the optimal solution, but if that's not possible, put the rental option in the WoE kafra NPCs.


Valkyrie doesn't have those, sadly. An NPC in every town might be a good replacement.
  • 0

#8 Ralis

Ralis

    [TOS] The Man Trap

  • VMod Retired
  • 6982 posts
  • LocationFlorida
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Classic

Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:47 PM

Shadow Form needs to have a serious cooldown as well.
  • 0

#9 Pred

Pred

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 200 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 01 November 2010 - 07:19 PM

Shadow Form needs to have a serious cooldown as well.


I disagree. Once in Shadow Form, you can't use any pots or further skills until you're out of Shadow Form. There are many ways to counter a Shadow Form SC:

- Don't attack SCs until they're vulnerable! If your whole guild is focus firing on one SC, then that SC will be able to kill your whole guild. Be aware of who you're attacking! If you're a one shot kill class, let's say a Sura for example, don't start casting Gfist on a SC who's just standing there. You have no idea how many times Suras try to Gfist me, only to get Shadow Formed because of their instincts to kill everything.

- Put a high aspd low dmg class on the SC. A Maestro with a Bezerk Guitar, for instance, does insanely low damage, at insanely high aspd, rendering Shadow Form useless as you'll be eating through the hits constantly.

- Soul Syphon. Once Shadow Form runs out the SC will have to spam blues in order to have enough sp to Shadow Form again, since he can't do that while in Shadow Form.

Any of these 3 counters works against Shadow Form, if you combine all three, it won't be an issue, but even just two of the above fixes the problem for ya. The best way to kill a Shadow Form SC, is to put them into Burning status with a couple of Fire Traps. Once in Burning they'll burn away their HP, as long as nobody's hitting them, they'll die to burning since they can't pot.

If your guild is having trouble with SCs, ask your members if they're paying attention to what they're doing during WoE, of if they're all just blindly attacking anything they can kill.

A good example of a smart guild dealing with SCs is Insurrection. We rushed their Juno1 a couple of times to get some action in, and when I Shadow Formed their members, I couldn't only get hit by AoE attacks after that. Their entire guild stopped targetting me, and I was reduced to a semi-transparent sprite that was watching his SP bar tick away every second. Whereas there are other guilds during that same WoE, that I tried the same thing, and I was able to single handedly wipe huge portions of enemy guilds because the guilds were full of people who weren't thinking about what they were doing as they killed off their members.

Shadow Form doesn't need to be nerfed. Players just need to be smarter about how they approach SCs.

Edited by Pred, 01 November 2010 - 07:19 PM.

  • 2

#10 Theoretical

Theoretical

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 652 posts
  • LocationOrlando, Florida
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:25-Life

Posted 01 November 2010 - 09:27 PM

+1 To Pred. Alot of people are upset about new skills. Lets try to learn how to counter them.
  • 0

#11 SethTheSecond

SethTheSecond

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 96 posts
  • LocationHovering in my seat
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Ymir

Posted 01 November 2010 - 09:35 PM

Shadow form is fine in my opinion. Although personally i wouldn't mind a 2 second delay (from when it's casted, so once 2 seconds has passed after you used it, you can cast it immediately after it wears off).

Try getting a counter to gloomy. Divest wears off with time, gloomy is permanent. Either put a mount rental in the kafras in the woe map, or on the woe map itself, or as the others suggested above, give it a wear off time so that the mount comes back after a set amount of time.

Manhole for the most part, in woe, is fine, since 3 targets is not a problem in larger scale battles... In pvp though, consider disabling it or changing it so that you cannot permanently disable a single target. Though my suggestion is give it a additional 1 second fixed cast time.

Has the divest accessories/shadow form others on pvm maps/manhole-ing people in town been fixed yet?
  • 0

#12 yoon

yoon

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 70 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:31 PM

people need to realize that those masq strips are to counter other 3rd skills. Stop trying to nerf everything kRO developers WANT the class to do in the first place.
  • 0

#13 Hiroaki

Hiroaki

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 152 posts
  • LocationBeach Shack Beginning World Domination!
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Ymir

Posted 02 November 2010 - 05:40 AM

The idea of adding the mount npc to the WoE kafras is a great idea. Though the situation probably wouldn't be best for Valkyrie, maybe another premium benefit? lol It's much better than nerfing/taking the skill out all together.

Shadow Form is fine as is. imo

Pretty much I'm just agreeing to those, I haven't explored the other skills enough.
  • 0

#14 Kokotewa

Kokotewa

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 94 posts
  • LocationStillwater Oklahoma

Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:32 AM

Shadowform, in my opinion, is just a counter to bad players. If you ignore the SC when he has SF'd, he has already been dealt with (he can't do anything). Sure he can't die, but realistically he is already dead. He is out of the fight, and is no longer contributing.

I think Manhole certainly is powerful, but as for overpowered it isn't the skill I would delete for being "too strong". Same goes for the masqs, all of them actually. It strips a mount, while certainly strong (and annoying!), serves as a counter to the currently-non-reductive dragon breath.
  • 0

#15 Doddler

Doddler

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1035 posts
  • LocationCanada
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 02 November 2010 - 11:19 AM

Personally I would give shadow form a 5 second cooldown (which is still really short), and manhole a 20s cooldown (manhole lasts 15s so you couldn't permenantly lock a player). I would prefer to just lower the duration on manhole rather than increase delay but iRO GMs can change delay, and not effect.
  • 0

#16 Hrishi

Hrishi

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2365 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 02 November 2010 - 11:26 AM

Could those skills not work outside PvP/WoE as well? It's just ASKING for griefing.
  • 0

#17 Prodigy

Prodigy

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1340 posts
  • LocationTX
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Transcendence

Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:07 PM

Shadowform, in my opinion, is just a counter to bad players. If you ignore the SC when he has SF'd, he has already been dealt with (he can't do anything). Sure he can't die, but realistically he is already dead. He is out of the fight, and is no longer contributing.

He's still contributing in a way that he's making his enemies be very wary of using AoE skills. Especially since SF is instant cast, even if a Shadow Chaser is not in SF, people would still be reluctant to use their AoE skills since the chaser can pop it any time. This becomes a big deal when you're in GvG fights since once things start to get chaotic, that Shadow Chaser is bound to kill someone, no matter how careful everyone is.
  • 0

#18 Kokotewa

Kokotewa

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 94 posts
  • LocationStillwater Oklahoma

Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:17 PM

He's still contributing in a way that he's making his enemies be very wary of using AoE skills. Especially since SF is instant cast, even if a Shadow Chaser is not in SF, people would still be reluctant to use their AoE skills since the chaser can pop it any time. This becomes a big deal when you're in GvG fights since once things start to get chaotic, that Shadow Chaser is bound to kill someone, no matter how careful everyone is.

Very true, but I think maelstrom will, or should, provide a larger influence in AoE fights. Even still, I don't find redirection of AoE damage (typically weak in nature) to be a strong point of the skill as compared to spike damage (the main use of the skill). Also having the stalker a counter to blind AoE cluster-_-s is a good thing in my opinion.

Edited by Kokotewa, 02 November 2010 - 12:21 PM.

  • 0

#19 Amor

Amor

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 44 posts
  • LocationIll
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 02 November 2010 - 06:14 PM

Shadow form should have a short fixed cast time of maybe .5 seconds, which would balance the skill in two ways:

a ) spamming it becomes more difficult once people start putting fast-hitting low damage skills on you like firewall or high aspd melee.

b ) it becomes more visible and obvious when an SC is shadow forming people, since I don't think the visual effect shows when you have /effect off.

On gloomy masquerade: one skill description I found said that it can be resisted based on level and stats, but it's not clear what stats those are, or if that's even true.

Mount rental NPC's should be put in WoE Kafras. That's no doubt the quickest and most feasible solution for the iRO team to implement.

Edited by Amor, 02 November 2010 - 06:15 PM.

  • 0

#20 Spinzaku

Spinzaku

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 28 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:22 PM

Lower the success rates of Masquerade skills massively or just make them a lot less devastating. There's no reason a class should be allowed to nullify another for an indefinitely period of time if they wish to keep on the same person. You should not be able to strip someone of their weapon, shield, accessories or mount if they are under the effects of Full Chemical Protection. At least implement an NPC that gives your mount back on the WoE maps instead of forcing players to go back to Prontera to get it.

Manhole should not be castable on PvM maps. I can't even count the number of times certain players have exploited it to warp my buff slaves out or to prevent me from competing at a high-end MVPs. Apparently it's not even skill abuse, because GMs won't e-mail me back on the issue or take any sort of action, allowing people to continue abusing such a dumb skill.
  • 0

#21 yoon

yoon

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 70 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 03 November 2010 - 10:37 PM

Actually right now Masq success rate is at the lowest. With the next kRO update, Masq rates goes up :P. Enjoy

Edited by yoon, 03 November 2010 - 10:38 PM.

  • 0

#22 Spinzaku

Spinzaku

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 28 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 10:53 PM

is it? that's actually pretty interesting then. i never really found any formulas that showed the success rate of masquerade skills, other than level. something like "status resistances, stats and level difference"
  • 0

#23 Myzery

Myzery

    They pay me to post.

  • Banned
  • 6670 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 04 November 2010 - 03:33 AM

Only peco classes in this thread complaining.
I seriously hope that the GMs aren't taking their biased opinions into consideration.
Spinzaku is a tear machine. I expect flash flood warnings in this thread as time goes on.
  • 2

#24 Andini

Andini

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2738 posts
  • LocationNorcal
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 04 November 2010 - 09:46 AM

people need to realize that those masq strips are to counter other 3rd skills. Stop trying to nerf everything kRO developers WANT the class to do in the first place.


exactly. in addition, there are certain skills that pretty much make a shadow chaser ineffective to do all the things mentioned in this thread. figure it out. a shadow chaser is supposed to disable well. that's the job of it, whether it be to disable other classes or another shadow chaser.
  • 1

#25 Spinzaku

Spinzaku

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 28 posts

Posted 04 November 2010 - 09:58 AM

Only peco classes in this thread complaining.
I seriously hope that the GMs aren't taking their biased opinions into consideration.
Spinzaku is a tear machine. I expect flash flood warnings in this thread as time goes on.


i don't even know who you are and i doubt you matter at all, go troll somewhere else.


peco classes do get screwed pretty hard by masq gloomy but it wouldn't be that bad if they just allowed WoE kafras to have a mount option. masq ignorance is way, way worse to get hit with imo. weakness probably shouldn't strip weapon/shield off people who are coated either. that's about it for those skills though.
  • 1




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users