327 replies to this topic

[Brindizer]

About Comet and TeleVision reducing MDEF, that is actually the result of the Burning status effect.

Speaking of color televisions, other players are unable to see what elemental orbs we've got floating around us. I'd like it if people could see my tetradic dance of elements.

[Silver]

So basically, if a Warlock pulls it off, you lose? Lol.

The success of White Imprison is based on a chance which is reducible by base level, AGI and VIT. This is from irowiki forums. Whether or not its duration is reducible I don't know.

About Comet and TeleVision reducing MDEF, that is actually the result of the Burning status effect.

I was actually thinking some kind of status effect based build might be suitable for MVPing when some said about it. Where did you get this info? Did you try it? The Burning effect seems cool.

[Wizard]

LOL TeleVision? well, the NPC lady with the books call it "Tetera Vortex" or something along those lines...

The chance of pulling WI off is based on Job level as well...

This is from irowiki:

White Imprison
Imprisons the target temporarily behind a white magic curtain, preventing them from moving. While in this state, you cannot take damage other than ghost property attacks or attacks with fixed damage. When White Imprison ends, the target takes a fixed amount of damage according to the skill level. You can cast this skill on yourself, but it will last only 5 seconds. The success rate is influenced by the user's job level.
Casting Time: 0ms
Re-use Delay: 4000ms
After-cast Delay: 0ms
Range: 9 cells
Base Duration: 20s on Targets / 5s on Self (Regardless of SkillLv)
Base Duration is reduced by BLv of Target.
Duration Formula: The Formula is currently unkown. However, we do have samples of Duration Reduction based on Target Lv; The Effect last for 20s on Poring (Lv.1), 18s on a Creamy (Lv.23), 17s on a Lv.115 player, and 17s on a Lv.125 player. This reduction also applies to WI effect when used on self, while the exact formula is currently unkown, there is one sample avaible; The skill lasts ~4s when used on self at Lv.125, instead of 5s.
Succes chance: (50+3xSkillLv)% = 53% ~ 65% (Lv.1~Lv.5)
White Imprison Success chance is highly increased by JLv (x1.5 at JoLv50)
Success chance Formula: (50+3xSkillLv)*(1+JLv/100)
Practical Sample: 75% ~ 92% (Lv.1~Lv.5) at JLv43
White Imprison Success chance is descreased by the Target's BLv, Vit, and Agi of
Success Reduction Formula: [SuccessChance - (<BLv/5> + <Vit/4> + <Agi/10>)] %; <BLv/5>, <Vit/4>, and <Agi/10> are all rounded down.
Practical Sample: 79~97 - (30+25+10) = 14~32% (Lv.1~Lv.5) at JLv.50 against a Lv.150, 100vit, 100Agi Target.
Success Reduction is also applied when casted on self; The higher your Level, Vit, and Agi the less likely WI will be successful on yourself.
The Re-use delay of the skill doesn't trigger if White Imprison fails.
White Imprison effect blocks movement, use of skills and use of items
If you use White Imprison on a target who is already under White Imprison's effect, the skill fails.
If you succesfully cast White Imprison on a [Burning], [Freezing], [Frozen], or [Stone Cursed] target, White Imprison will overwrite and the previous status of the target.
List of Skills that deal damage through White Imprison & Break it; Napalm Beat, Soul Strike, Napalm Vulcan, Soul Expansion, Any Physical skill that takes weapon element when used with a ghost weapon.
List of Skills that deal damage through Whtie Imprison without breaking it; Gravitional Field, Gloria Domini
List of Skills that work through White Imprison without dealing any damage or breaking it; Quagmire, Marsh of Abyss

Ja na

Edited by Wizard, 04 November 2010 - 08:20 AM.

[Poko4Sho]

Alright, well I guess I was just trapped in the first one the whole time and he just decided to spam it anyway because I wasn't alive for more than 20 seconds xP. Thanks for the information.

[Silver]

Speaking of color televisions, other players are unable to see what elemental orbs we've got floating around us. I'd like it if people could see my tetradic dance of elements.

If other people where able to see what elemental spheres we had summoned, they would be able to predict in PvP what elemental attacks they would receive when we use Release or TV.

[Brindizer]

If other people where able to see what elemental spheres we had summoned, they would be able to predict in PvP what elemental attacks they would receive when we use Release or TV.

That only seems fair. You can still do one of each. If they take equally low damage, they're wearing a Holy, and then you can nuke them with Hell Inferno.

[Silver]

That only seems fair. You can still do one of each. If they take equally low damage, they're wearing a Holy, and then you can nuke them with Hell Inferno.

I don't think you understand. How is it fair? If you are using fire, I will switch to pasana (which reduces fire damage by 75%). I can further reduce it with Jakk gament maybe (which gives 30% reduction). Simalarly, water, lightning and earth can be reduced. It is not difficult to switch armours/garments in combat at all. The advantage of keeping it hidden is, if the enemy is using the weaker element, the damage will be amplified.

[Wizard]

Alright, well I guess I was just trapped in the first one the whole time and he just decided to spam it anyway because I wasn't alive for more than 20 seconds xP. Thanks for the information.

Hmmm I think you can spam WI even before it ran out... I did it last WoE keeping some ppl trapped in it... I was just spamming the skill on them and I never got the "Skill Fail" thing...

[Stalkerness]

Why does Release consume Mystical Amplification?

This seems counter intuitive to me. Release itself does no damage, and inflicts no effects, it merely chains to another magic skill. Saftey Wall likewise does no damage and it does not consume amp. Endure (via anodyne), a completely non-magic skill, does not consume amp.

I understand that an amp'd + recognized + instant cast spell (or group of spells) is going to be pretty powerful damage output. Infact, I think it should be powerful damage output, considering it takes a fair bit of time to setup your memorized combos. Also keep in mind, that your memorized combos can't be changed on the fly if a battle turns in a direction where your next skill is useless.

Maybe I haven't played my warlock enough to get the full feel of things. No one else in this thread has made mention of this fact, and I'm not sure if that's because its an accepted-fact or some other reason.

[Brindizer]

I don't think you understand. How is it fair? If you are using fire, I will switch to pasana (which reduces fire damage by 75%). I can further reduce it with Jakk gament maybe (which gives 30% reduction). Simalarly, water, lightning and earth can be reduced. It is not difficult to switch armours/garments in combat at all. The advantage of keeping it hidden is, if the enemy is using the weaker element, the damage will be amplified.

a 4-Fire Tetra is easy enough to reduce. That's why I suggested doing a Fire-Thunder-Fire-Thunder or Fire-Thunder-Water-Earth Tetra. If the target is smart enough to reduce what you throw at em, Hell Inferno is always a great choice. That is my point.

I'm fine with them either being hidden or visible, I'm just not sure what the intention is.

[Miaa]

Im genuinely suprised no one has mentioned this yet, but then again, the topic seems to be mainly filled with people who actually play Warlocks complaining and asking for buffs, as opposed to nerfs.

But seriously, Frosty Mist/Jack Frost is an absolute joke, if you wont want 10,000 emails per day saying "This xxx Warlock KS'd me" id seriously think about reducing the AoE range to a reasonable range, currently it is FAR to ranged, and i for one often get KS'd by Warlocks who arent even on my damn screen, all i see is my Magmarings suddenly get those icicles above them then dying.

Obviously people playing Warlocks probably wont defend this suggestion, i mean who wants thier class to get nerfed, but seriously, probably every other class who has played on a 'fire' map with Warlocks will probably agree with this one.

[Spinzaku]

I'm not sure if this is intended or a bug, but is the Freezing status from Frost Misty supposed to go through GTB? That's the only thing I can think of. I see warlocks as being underpowered, though all the high level Warlocks on Ymir right now have access to Hibram shoes. It seems like the hardest thing for them is just getting a cast off (as far as PvP/WoE are concerned), but alright from a PvM perspective.

Edited by Spinzaku, 06 November 2010 - 02:21 PM.

[Mwrip]

Im genuinely suprised no one has mentioned this yet, but then again, the topic seems to be mainly filled with people who actually play Warlocks complaining and asking for buffs, as opposed to nerfs.

But seriously, Frosty Mist/Jack Frost is an absolute joke, if you wont want 10,000 emails per day saying "This xxx Warlock KS'd me" id seriously think about reducing the AoE range to a reasonable range, currently it is FAR to ranged, and i for one often get KS'd by Warlocks who arent even on my damn screen, all i see is my Magmarings suddenly get those icicles above them then dying.

Obviously people playing Warlocks probably wont defend this suggestion, i mean who wants thier class to get nerfed, but seriously, probably every other class who has played on a 'fire' map with Warlocks will probably agree with this one.

Melees one shot these monsters. Locks have to mist multiple times to get it to stick, then do a follow up spell to actually kill anything. Mist would be completely and utterly useless if it didn't have insane range.

[Zeddy]

D:

Crimson stuns party members when cast at monsters.

I really hope this is a bug AND PLEASE FIX SOON, it's so annoying to stun the tank, specially if he's fleeing stuff

[Hrishi]

I'm not sure if this is intended or a bug, but is the Freezing status from Frost Misty supposed to go through GTB? That's the only thing I can think of. I see warlocks as being underpowered, though all the high level Warlocks on Ymir right now have access to Hibram shoes. It seems like the hardest thing for them is just getting a cast off (as far as PvP/WoE are concerned), but alright from a PvM perspective.

I think it's supposed to, because the freezing status of Misty has nothing to do with it's damage. It also goes through walls and stuff, in fact!

EDIT : About nerfing range, that is a bad idea. One of the biggest advantages of a warlock IS the massive range. Already like an underpowered class, that would be like taking away one of their main strengths!

Edited by Hrishi, 07 November 2010 - 03:11 AM.

[heyxsean]

I think it's supposed to, because the freezing status of Misty has nothing to do with it's damage. It also goes through walls and stuff, in fact!

EDIT : About nerfing range, that is a bad idea. One of the biggest advantages of a warlock IS the massive range. Already like an underpowered class, that would be like taking away one of their main strengths!

What exactly is the point of a range skill that goes off your screen, other than ksing I haven't been ksed by any warlocks yet since I don't lvl on those maps but seems illogical for a skill to go off your screen, unless you got like super senses and know there's a monster off your screen and can tell its location, there really is no point for that type of range skill...Being able to ks people without the person knowing who ksed them, is a pretty stupid advantage lol

[Hrishi]

What exactly is the point of a range skill that goes off your screen, other than ksing I haven't been ksed by any warlocks yet since I don't lvl on those maps but seems illogical for a skill to go off your screen, unless you got like super senses and know there's a monster off your screen and can tell its location, there really is no point for that type of range skill...Being able to ks people without the person knowing who ksed them, is a pretty stupid advantage lol

Who said anything about PvM? I can definitely see a point to such massive range in siege.

[Mwrip]

What exactly is the point of a range skill that goes off your screen, other than ksing I haven't been ksed by any warlocks yet since I don't lvl on those maps but seems illogical for a skill to go off your screen, unless you got like super senses and know there's a monster off your screen and can tell its location, there really is no point for that type of range skill...Being able to ks people without the person knowing who ksed them, is a pretty stupid advantage lol

When you have a large party (yes, they used to exist), you almost certainly have multiple pullers, and if you're not being lazy, the main group is mobile as well. This means the incoming pulls tend to get parked nowhere near each other, and the nuker needs to deal with 2-3 groups of incoming, +1-3 monsters already on the party. In the past, you would fling seperate nukes onto each incoming pull... but with the melee damage as high as it now is, that would make you useless - you'd rarely even score a hit before stuff died. Mist lets you blast everything at once, and since it's not a standard freeze combo, the melees can be attacking while you cast the followup. It's one of the few ways a lock can have any value whatsoever to a party in renewal with melee damage being where it is, and matk being majorly nerfed.

The ONLY place the range is really an issue is magmarings, and there's plenty of other maps in that level range. Pick one of the other 10 maps rather than suggesting destroying a class for the sake of making one overcrowded map run smoother.

[heyxsean]

The range is an issue wherever warlocks lvl... I'm not getting your point on big parties and pullers you telling me pullers pull to a spot off the screen of the warlocks? Kinda confusing...but okay lol I'm not going to try and nerf warlocks since I really haven't ran into any issues with them yet...but the range still seems pretty illogical...

[Kaijou]

First off I apologize for this sudo-rant, its not whining or complaining its just the cards we've been dealt. My goal here is simply to relay my experience and I have no intention of making demands or requests. The simple fact is Warlock is severely under powered in both defense, attack, hp, and leveling abilities. Just ropd the various 3rd classes (I'll wait)

Guess who's dead last even behind the Arch Bishop support class? Us. Sure we can mob... but the experience tier hinders leveling from 110-125 well out of warlocks favor, thus leaving at our disposal Viens or Juperos getting 0.1% per mob kill. The largest complaint I read about kRO vs jRO's renewal was the disparity between melee and magic users, and those complaints are absolutely correct [many of them were already addressed in this thread so I'll spare listing them]. Warlock gets one shot by almost every single 3rd class, yet can do almost nothing similar to the damage of individuals who have literally 2-8 times our max HP, even with release and a fallen bishop card (which IMO is more what our damage output should be without it).

Case in point I'm molding myself into the new 'cookie cutter' type build, and at level 111 I have 53 vit + variants and I can't even break 10k hp. Meanwhile because of this I'm getting 1 shot by almost every single Gen/RK/RG with and without elemental armors on. My stat calculator shoes at 150 a pathetic 20k hp, so assuming basic trends my hp will sit around 15k at level 130-135 and I'll still be getting one shot by level 110-115 RK/RG. In pvm I realize we are considered offensive support, but the question is why would you rather have a warlock in your leveling/mvp party over an AoE capable godlike melee wielding tank?

I don't expect these problems to be addressed, and have already accepted Warlocks becoming a novelty class... I just want to have fun again

Edited by Kaijou, 09 November 2010 - 03:09 PM.

[pomdjyer]

Im genuinely suprised no one has mentioned this yet, but then again, the topic seems to be mainly filled with people who actually play Warlocks complaining and asking for buffs, as opposed to nerfs.

But seriously, Frosty Mist/Jack Frost is an absolute joke, if you wont want 10,000 emails per day saying "This xxx Warlock KS'd me" id seriously think about reducing the AoE range to a reasonable range, currently it is FAR to ranged, and i for one often get KS'd by Warlocks who arent even on my damn screen, all i see is my Magmarings suddenly get those icicles above them then dying.

Obviously people playing Warlocks probably wont defend this suggestion, i mean who wants thier class to get nerfed, but seriously, probably every other class who has played on a 'fire' map with Warlocks will probably agree with this one.

remove the range of frosty misty to make it useless to use, good idea indeed

a warlock getting any near of a "half-decent" sura/genetic/etc will almost always get one shotted, this is why they have massive range and this is why you are really stupid for asking their primary skill to be nerfed

who cares about PVM... you should not be leveling in magmarings anyway if you are not a warlock. There is way better places for any other classes.

[Mwrip]

I want to suggest changes to fix the lock, but I don't really know where to begin.

Looking at the actual skills, 3 are garbage, and one should be elsewhere on the tree, but the rest actually seem just fine.

Drain Life: This either needs a LARGE boost to damage, or 100% drain. Right now, this is a weaker heal clip... that's self-only... and has to be used in active combat... and costs 5x the SP... and has a cast time... and can't be used as often... and can fail. This is one of the worst skills in the game.

Soul Expansion: This is a single target spell that's weaker than a bolt. A very fast cast justifies this as a FIRST JOB skill, but we already have that. It's called Soul Strike. This needs a *large* boost to be anything but a skill point sink.

Hellfire: Again, this is weaker than a bolt. Wizzies have always been utterly useless vs. holy targets, but this is very much not going to fix that. A meleer can outdamage this thing with autoattack! This needs a LARGE damage boost to be anything but a stumbling block to Comet. Thankfully, Comet itself works fine on holy targets, but Hellfire is nothing but a skill point sink.

The element balls: These should be further down the tree. Their only real value is to set up Tetra, and if you're not taking that, these just waste skill points needlessly. Yes, I'm aware Release can launch these as a projectile attack, but the damage is way too low for anyone to bother with that.

The rest of the skills actually all seem fine. Although the damage actually drops in some cases (2800% Crimson vs 3500% Meteor Storm for instance), there's usually a good reason for this. In the case of Crimson, it's because it's far more reliable, and also hurls targets away and attempts to stun to buy time. Radius has us lobbing spells at almost bow range, Recognized gives us a power boost, and Freezing Spell allows us to precast and fire off combos. We have several new debuffs, and "freezing" status allows us to combo without having to worry about party members breaking the ice and killing the combo. Mist and Comet let us whack the whole screen, while Chain Lightning and Tetra let us concentrate more power to a smaller area. They even went out of their way to give most spells either combo potential, or an alternate use (such as White Imprisonment on self to block an incoming Quake or other huge hit).

It's actually a very versatile, interesting caster class. It's just rendered useless because casters have no place whatsoever with current Renewal mechanics.

Looking at those mechanics...

MATK = It's impossible to get enough for anyone to take you seriously. Our skills do less damage than melee... with a cast bar... on a class with 1/4 the HP and 1/2 the defense of a tank.

Party role = Even if our nukes DID do enough to justify taking a squishy character in the party, melee can kill the weak monsters so fast that when the cast bar fills, nothing is still alive anyway.

MVP role = Because the MDEF reduction curves ultra fast, a class that already does crap damage pretty much tinks off these guys.

PvP role = Start cast bar, die before it fills. If you get lucky and actually got a spell off, your opponent shrugs it off, then 1-2 shots you.

WoE role = Well... there's some wide-ranging status effect causers, so that has some value... I guess. That's if you really want to bother weakening characters that you can kill easily anyway.

NONE of the above can be fixed by tweaking the class. It's the Renewal mechanics themselves that make us useless.

Edited by Mwrip, 12 November 2010 - 03:21 PM.

[Doddler]

Soul Expansion: This is a single target spell that's weaker than a bolt. A very fast cast justifies this as a FIRST JOB skill, but we already have that. It's called Soul Strike. This needs a *large* boost to be anything but a skill point sink.

This is actually a misconception, while the skill is single target, it deals aoe damage. It's also very spammable with an incredibly short cast time, making it still fairly useful.

[Symphony3000]

Some more options for ignoring MDEF are needed if Warlocks are ever going to compete on even terms in WoE and MVP'ing.

MDEF on MVPs is especially ridiculous.

[Mwrip]

This is actually a misconception, while the skill is single target, it deals aoe damage. It's also very spammable with an incredibly short cast time, making it still fairly useful.

Ah, that I didn't know. Scratch that off the useless list.